Offer > acceptance > consideration. These are the basics of a completed contract/sale. I was thinking about about some of the strange ways contracts can be completed. What is the tipping point where the law calls it prostitution or "deriving income from?"
Example:
I was at an event in MA where it was illegal for the promoter to sell beer on Sunday. The event got around this by forcing the of-age buyers to purchase tokens. You would then exchange the token for beer.
Just curious: what if a provider sold a prospective client a token that could then be exchange for services? Wouldn't this be deriving income from the sale of a token?
I mean if this sort of exchange works for the highly regulated sale of alcohol why not other services?
The "of age" people could buy tokens. There is a point (legal age) where beer is legal, and so the authorities will often look the other way for certain events. Prostitution, however, has no point where it is legal. So tokens, beads, trinkets, whatever are not going to get it!
It's all pretty stupid...A provider could sell me her car....she could have sex with me for free...both are legal....but she can't sell me the sex!
I guess that's why they invented wives...they can take all of your money for sex, then continue to take your money without sex, and continue to take your money after you throw her ass out! And they have the nerve to call providers whores!!!
I give her money for the car rental, have sex with her and return the car. It's a REAL nice car, so it's worth a couple hundred for the hour. Whatdyathink?
I see- so let me understand....beer is legal if you are over 21. Sex is legal if you are over...let's just say 18 to include every state.
People exchange other things as noted in a reply below, and then have sex. So if a person exchanges something of value-not money- is it still deriving income from?
Lie chips at a poker casino- the token has no value except to the house.
I can take a lady away for a week end, spend a few thousand dollars, but her some jewelry and she can have sex with me, but if instead money is involved...well, you know the story.
But that's our laws. There are some here in the Southwest that say you can be hung for stealing a horse. Fucking law is 100+ years old! And why the hell would you want to steal a horse nowadays anyway?
But I gather that you're talking about a 'bartering' system? Instead of giving her the money for her services, you just buy her shit instead.
BTW, did the deal, sending money ahead of a meeting and got poked on it.
One of MP's life lessons. Won't do it again. Fuck you the first time, fuck me the second time.
Know what I'm sayin'?!
Peace!
What if I advertised condoms for sale, with free demonstrations? Think that would get me off the hook?
What astounds me is, the way our laws are written, there's always someone that can twist it to their advantage.
Sounds like a HELL of an idea!
Curious to see if it works!
She said an attorney told her to advertise that she sells condoms. If the gent wants to try them out before he leaves, that is up to him.
I told her to find a new atty. Perhaps one for the legal board.
... and habitually "ACCIDENTIALLY FORGET" to turn it on! Because being paid for having TAPED sex = porn = LEGAL... Let's face it- the US is the puritanical, laughingstock of much of the more RATIONAL world!!!
Shooting porn is no different than shooting any other film. You need licenses, permits and real life information on file regarding all of the actors. Sticking a camera on a tripod, with or without film in it, is not going to keep you out of jail.
This is a really great article! Here's a small excerpt, but you folks should really read the whole thing!
And Bostonguy, while I would hardly consider CNN to be the PREMIERE legal authority on such matters- if there is a PERSON behind the "accidentially malfunctioning" camera... and there is the "illusion" that both parties are "in it for the *MONEY*"... this article DOES imply that these factors render whatever else is going on within the law... That being said, my argument was of a more philosopical and sarcastic nature!
"Why court protects adult movies
It's almost certain that on its current precedents, the U.S. Supreme Court would hold that garden-variety pornographic actors are indeed engaged in First-Amendment-protected activity, so long as obscenity is not involved. Odd as it may seem, what appears finally to make all of the difference is the mode of gratification for the person who is paying but not himself seeking money.
The ultimate demand for pornography comes from the viewer of pornography, and what excites him is the watching of the adult film, rather than any physical act performed on him by another person. The "enjoyment" of pornography is therefore as "speech," rather than as action.
Though real sex occurred in the making of the pornographic film, this fact is only relevant insofar as it is known (or believed) by the viewer. If, for example, the entire film were created with highly realistic computer graphics, but the viewer believed that what he saw was real, then he would enjoy the material just as much.
Because the impact of pornography occurs through the mediation of an audience witnessing a performance, rather than an audience receiving physical services from a performer, pornography and its making qualify as First-Amendment protected speech.
Does this make sense? Consider again the significance of the sexual act: legal consequences can follow from it and it can, accordingly, be regulated by the law in a variety of ways. Though two people may very much want to have sex with each other in private, the law can intervene to say that they cannot, just because one of them seeks money and the other gratification, for example.
If, however, both members of the couple are in it for the money, and there is a man with a camera taping them, then the sex is insulated by the Constitution from legal regulation."
Sorry if I missed your facetiousness but I saw nothing in the wording of your OP that would even hint at it being anything other than a serious statement. My bad I guess...
Great article but, though it took a long time to get there, it pretty much reiterated what I said.
-- Modified on 8/23/2009 11:34:10 AM

..and play Wack-A-Mole at the gosh darn County Fair..!! At least *MY* idea has legal PRECEDENCE... I couldn't find any CNN articles about the possible installation of TOKEN slots on the top of the obligatory locking safes seen in many hotel rooms... Maybe you will have better luck finding one than I...
Lol, It's always going to be easier to avoid LE than to try and outsmart them...CNN will never do a story on that...
First off that token for beer was the same token used for the purchase of food. Large venues do this to keep track of all sales so they get their percentage of the take. If an community would allow tokens for other things I am sure a good lawyer would give it a fight.
How about a large adult convention where tokens are sold up front for all merchandise and services as well as food. Now what if there where porn stars allowing XXX filming with guests for so many tokens for 20 minutes. It is against the law in it's context but does the token change things. I wonder if anyone has ever thought it would be worth trying.
Kisses Haley
But, I want longer than 20 minutes. I have a token making machine.
In other words, it is not so much the actual wording of a law that governs what we can and can not do, but how authorites end up enforcing (and not enforcing) certain laws.
For example, before a reform allowed non-profits to engage in certain forms of legal gambling up here in Mass., it was common for these organizations (churches, VFWs, etc) to hold raffles or bingo games where the winner would win a non-monetary prize with the understanding that someone would then buy that prize from them for a certain amount of money. That prize was essentially a token.
I suppose that if LE wanted to make an issue about it they could bust the operations and argue in court that this was just a thinly veiled gambling enterprise; but as far as I have ever heard, no such organization ever got busted. The chief reason being that the people engaging in these operations were most likely famiily and friends of the LE themselves.
However, when it comes to our hobby enterprise, I doubt we will get any such consideration. The fact of the matter is that even if you manage to get a good lawyer and win your argument in court, you are still defeated just by having to do so.
Thus will it remain until the prostitution laws are removed or amended.
so a smart guy with a LOT of money could set up a new enterprise.
First you need a list of ladies willing to exchange service for the tokens.
Then you need a group of retailers nationwide that would sell the tokens in various value amounts at a small profit.
Then you need to set up a clearing house that would redeem the tokens for cash when the ladies return them.
Finally, you need a legal staff willing to take on state AG's anywhere you do business.
The profit on the tokens could be as high as 50% if the program withstands leggal testing.
I tire of seeing almost every strip club, porn company, and legal brothel owned and opperated by MEN! In my more cynical moments I feel like guys like Dennis Hof (owner of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch a la HBO'S series "Cathouse"..)are in SOME ways legal "pimps"...!!
During World War II, the "ladies of the evening" in Honolulu faced increased police persecution and so they banded together and went on strike! The military members stationed there made the gender ratio 500 men/1 woman... The ladies in the Hotel District apparently saw arround 8,000 men per evening! The army, desperate to preserve morale, stepped in and negotiated with the local police to relax their enforcement...!! And history was made...
HOWEVER, I don't see the National Guard declaring "A Pussy Shortage State Of Emergency" any time soon... and lobbying on any of *OUR* behalves for national decriminalization... but hope springs eternal!
Sorry cindygoldielocks, my gender bias was unintentional-