Regarding my post below, and the thoughtful responses, my question is simply, do we want this hobby legalized? If so, how? If not, why not? I do not think this is a Politics and Religion board question but one that needs to be discussed. All of this BS around Spitzer and others would simply not exist if there was no crime. Providers would be less paranoid and so would hobbiests. WHile I must admit that like smoking a cigarette as a teenager, there is some thrill in transgressing societal norms, there are simply too many men who hobby but keep it a secret to believe that the oldest profession in the world has not finally come of age. Any takers?
what we need is decriminalization, as many countries do, while still prohibiting commercialization, ie stuff like pimping.
legal or not, they will still want to keep their secrets. A business man or politician who has lots to lose will want his steamy little secret kept that way. Just because they wont risk getting busted doesn't mean the morality of destroying their marriages will change at all. The benefit mostly would be to the safety issue. The ladies tested as they should be on a reg basis, no risk of being ripped off and to us, the ladies...same as well. But like anything else you Know the taxman will want their cut.
So that may trigger an increase in cost.
Yet again, if I am paying taxes, all my "supplies" will be deductions. Condoms, lubes,testing, hotel fees, advertising, websites, pictures, paperwork to be a provider, all will be a part of the trade.
There are good and bad about it all but honestly, I don't see that this country is quite ready for this. Before the Gov thing I knew it was not going to happen in my career, the fact that everyone is so very surprised by this and shocked...wake up America. Most of the men in my real life, have all been to strip clubs, paid for a lap dance and what ever else they could squeeze out of it, bachelor parties with the blow jobs thrown in, but they can't allow themselves to see they just paid for sex. A great deal; have seen a provider and if not, took a girl out spent more than they wanted to in hopes to get her into bed. You still paid for it but it felt more like a victory cuz you werent really sure it was a go.
This country will not allow itself to see there are woman who Choose this work, we all must have been abused as a child and assaulted sexually.
God Forbid you be a woman who's on the pta, goes on fieldtrips with her kids classes, all the neighborhood kids sleep over on the weekends, live in an upper middleclass neighborhood, have a house thats paid off and looks like and IS the normal middle american MOM. God forbid...well welcome to my world...Thats me in a nut shell. Never been abused, from a very well off family and not all but most I have today...is somewhat attributed to this lovely sensual hobby...and my sweet Gentlemen who I've played with over the past few years.
I know this went long...sorry, but America is just Not ready!!!
Nicole, I'm not a CPA but my advice to you is to pay your federal income taxes. Al Capone was brought down for tax evasion; not for bootleging, prostitution, illegal gambling, etc.
You don't want the feds looking after your affairs (financial ones that is).
oh believe me I do. I owe every yr. There are a lot of working girls who dont though
Good. This sentence is what aroused (I know, I should have come up with a better word) my interest: "Yet again, if I am paying taxes, all...."
Glad I will not read about you for tax evasion. LOL Be safe.
I pay taxes just stating they will want more but the deductions I can Not claim now, would be able to claim then.
You can't legalize the activity without the government getting involved, most likely on a state-to state level. I'm not comfortable at all with the thought of government imposing regulations telling the ladies or us gents how we have to go about having sex.
Smart people exchange money for sex every day in this country in relative obscurity and with little threat of getting caught. If the profession could be decriminalized to the point that no agency is controlling it then obviously I would be all for it.
Honestly, I don't think that can happen...
the government already is involved, the regulations imposed on the hobby are outright banning of it. How do you get worse that that?
The hobby works just fine legally in many countries. It should be regulated only to the extent that any other business is regulated with a little mandatory health testing thrown in. Most countries where it is legal requere health cards, what's wrong with that? Providers paying taxes? Again I ask, What's wrong with that?
I don't believe the Nevada model of overregulation would be duplicated if the hobby were legalized nationwide, but do I believe it will happen at all? Unfortunately no. It aint gonna happen, it doesn't hurt to wish though.
The main problem with the health cards and licensing is the stigma. Many would choose to stay underground vs. having it on their permanent history that they were at all involved in this business.
It is quite feasible for providers to pay taxes without being subject to a full legalization, with simple decriminalization. In fact, many professional escorts already DO license and pay taxes, as the world is today.
i agree...this is all about discretion on all sides. We as providers have a great deal at risk if found out also. It's practically like a public stoning, the way the media has tried to portray this girl.
Just because it would no longer be a crime, that doesn't mean it would be ok to splash your face all over town as a provider. Living in a small town as many of us do, that would be all I'd need. No thanks I'll stay utr if thats the case.
It doesn't matter much if it's legalized and still sex workers break the laws due to shame.
We could change the laws, but the laws are just one expression of contempt people in this society have for "the hobby."
History, however, shows that prostitution has gone through cycles of legality, mere tolerance, and total proscription in Western Culture. It seems that no one answer has proved the best.
I agree. I do NOT want it on any sort of permanent record about my current profession. I do hope to have another career after this hobby and I do not want my past (and present) to limit what I can do with my future.
I think it's easy enough for a hobbyist to suggest licensing and such, but how would you feel if in order for this to work out YOU had to be licensed to use the services of an escort?
Furthermore, I DO pay taxes.
I wish I shared your confidence GaG. that the over regulation in Nevada won't be duplicated in other states but there is nothing to base that hope on. In fact, there are many states with a lot less to gain by legalizing than Nevada did that may try and regulate the practice to an even stricter degree.
In any event I agree that it won't happen any way...
and even on a trip to Nevada you can go the "Legal" route...or the still flourishing utr ter and indie route. There are as many if not more out there Not working for the brothels. Many Gents dont want the hoopla or expossure and all. Just because you wont get arrested, your wife may still object.
Making it legal will not make it OK with the wife! Am I going out on a limb when I say that most of the male politicians that would draft, promote and vote for any legislation of this sort are married?
I simply think that it's not possible or desirable at once. Come to think of it-- it can't happen at once anyway.
I think decriminalization must happen first, and every step has to be proved for the public to accept it. And I assume that it can be done in one state, one municipality at a time. A success can be cited for other jurisdictions to follow.
I think emancipation should be applied to the Nevada brothels.
The real problem, of course, is that wives as a voting demographic will never go for this, and they'll expect their husbands to be against it too.
So it has to happen as a matter of rights.
Not legalizing is the ultimate regulation in that all sex for money is forbidden. The argument whether we should decriminalized or legalized, centers on the question do we need any regulations at all.
IMO, you and others must have an obvious Pollyannaish view through rose color glasses of this hobby. The myth is that only smart and honest people are participating in this hobby, no underage sex, all Provider are willing participants and are practicing at their own free will, a lower STD risk potential, every Provider gets STD tested regular, no substance abuse, no physical violence, and general without any other associated criminal activity (ex. not paying income tax) that would requiring regulations to protect the common welfare of the rest of society. If this was so, or I was convince the hobby could self police itself I would be a strong proponent of decriminalization without regulations. That not being so or possible, I favor legalization with relative minimal regulations that will requiring Provider having proof of age, regular criminal background checks, negative drug test and evidence and negative STD test. This is way a government agency can minimal intervene to preserve at best as possible the common welfare of society and also allow individual rights of a Providers to practice her profession. With legalization the real smart people will choose to exchange money for sex with legal Providers, in relative obscurity with less of a threat of getting caught, contacting and spreading an STD or getting unwittingly involved in a criminal activity.
For those concerned about stigmatization with licensing, recognizing Providing as a legal profession would be step towards lessening the stigma. We already have model for laws on the books now with stiff financial penalties if violated that that can be utilized to protect the privacy of this information. The argument that legalizing will bring inconvenient regulation and zoning laws IMO is a weak one when compared to potential benefits to the welfare of society of such regulations and zoning laws. In the end, the collective good (some alluded to above) of both the hobby and non hobby community needs to trump the self interest of the individual.
-- Modified on 3/18/2008 1:23:04 PM
Fully legalizing, no. I can only imagine the crazy hoops and regulations and zoning and so forth that legalization would bring with it...
Who wouldn't agree with her?! We love ourselves some Sola ... -e
I can see it now, getting pulled over for speeding, or what ever, they run your lisence, drivers that is, and up pops your "scarlet letter" she is a known lisenced provider but you know it will say "Prostitute". They would big brother this to death. I can not see an upside of this at this point in time in this country never mind on a state level.
Nevada, well they are always on the edge so there its a go...
Rhode Island...have you been to thier registry? Everything RI does is a fiasco. I am not surprised there either. And it really isn't legal there. Theres a privacy act that does not allow anyone to invade your privacy. Leave it to the littlest state to come up with that...and have it work. But they also have had in the past, some of the shadiest politicians. The law was a benefit to them so...of course it passed.
It was rediculous - background check, fingerprinting, photo ID, etc. I always got the sense that it was just a way to catalogue and lable me as a "bad girl" and/or to quickly ID me should I end up dead under unusual circumstance. Note, this was in 1991. Back then, what other unskilled positions required so much documentation? Heck, I'd gotten jobs working with patients in hospitals with less (that's not the same these days...)
In Seattle dancing is legal. Supposedly. It's regulated so horribly that I don't bother trying to enjoy them here - I'll drive to Portland, OR if I want to go to a strip club. Unlike Portland, where the clubs are nice to simply "hang out", Seattle the clubs are dingly holes of shame. You can't have a drink and relax with the dances, watered down soda only. No food or games. Dancers must be 12" from the patrons, imagine what that does for a lap dance? Clubs are subject to strict zoning laws making it near impossible for any new ones to open and those that exist charge the ladies an arm and a leg for the priviledge of dancing in their club (i.e., a very few are actually profiting from the industry.)
And Seattle is thought to be the liberal bastion of Washington state. Can you imagine what they would do for escorting?
: O
(edit spelling)
-- Modified on 3/17/2008 8:11:40 PM
exactly...fingerprints, ids, the whole 9yards...bad girl? No more like "Dirty Girl". like I said, they all want to slip in and see you on the sly...shhhh, our little secret but in public, they see no way it could be ok. If a politician votes to legalize this...and the wife asks, did you vote for it? Or the public finds out and the way they vote is public record, they will be in the doghouse with the wife, and voted out next election.
I will be retired many many yrs before it ever comes to that I am afraid, but for those of you, much younger than me, and still in the game know I'll vote for it if its on the ballot...lol.
it's not going to happen in this country in our lifetime. Never mid the fact that full lagalization works fine in many countries, it's not going to happen in ours.
Someone has to sponsor the bill and many politicians are going to have to vote for it and that just isn't going to happen. Remember this is the same country that reelected a president by the margin of an ammendment to prohibit gay marriage.
I believe that full legalization would be prferable in a perfect world, but this is far from a perfect world. I also believe that SPs should be full, above board, tax paying members of society, but hobbyists and providers are by and large going to be UTR for the forseeable future.
This question is actually not so easily answered.
My initial knee jerk reaction is "Hell Yeah!!!"
However, after some brief thought, it could be tricky to navigate.
The road to legalization is fraught with political land mines. As Bostonguy57 pointed out in the "dust settled" thread below, there's a good chance that the government would find a way to make the legalized version a lot less enjoyable, and in possibly unpredictable ways.
On the other hand, if it did happen, we wouldn't have to deal with all the screening BS that we have to go through, not to mention sweating out the possibility of "getting caught with our pants down", and "exposed" 
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
We'd also find it easier to find the kind of providers we'd really like to be with. Even with all the reviews, it's still 100% YMMV.
And providers would be safer, and more protected from the creeps out there.
I personally believe that our society as a whole would benefit altogether from it in the long run.
The best approach, to get a lobbyist, was mentioned by Morgan Taylor in this NY thread:
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=116220&boardID=2&page=2
I totally agree that this would be the only way to go.
To pull it off, we'd have to wield a level of influence to match, or exceed better still, that of the big televangelists, feminazi's, and other pretentiously pious "moral" types trying to control our minds and behaviors.
It would be most helpful if our more powerful members - and you guy's know who you are - the politicians, corporate officers, and especially those of us representing the entire law enforcement community, from prosecutors to judges and police captains, not to mention all the PBA's - oh sure, you guys don't *do* that kind of thing - riiiight, just like Spritzer didn't.
Oh yes, and priests / preachers / ministers / rabbis / imams.
Let's have some honest morality for a change.
Bah, it'll never happen, but I can dream, can't I?
I really don't get involved in this type of thread but I have a statement. Everyone talks about "decriminalization" vs "legalization". If something is not a crime (decriminalized) then it is legal (legalized). I think what everyone wants is for it to be legal, but then that is when you get into the licensing of it if the government wants to make it that way (which they will).
So it isn't so much as decriminalize vs legalize it is more like legalize then leave it alone, which won't happen. Making income from it if it is legal will mean involving all the aspects of business laws including licensing, zoning, even health checks so customers don't get sick (like food service places).
Concluding that if this type of business ever was made legal, then it would have all sorts of government involvement.
b-
I'm a lawyer. If we keep legalizing shit, I'll go broke.
Just like I am against electric cars, I am in the oil business. The good news is, you and I have nothing to worry about.
How are you doing on your quest regarding the 100 providers in 12(?) different countries? That's some tour I'd like to take.
I've only been on one trip, to costa Rica. I won't have any problems reaching the 100 provider threshold. I think I saw ten different ladies the first week of the year and I'm probably at 35 or so for the year so far, but I am way behind on the dozen countries. I think I am gong to have to go on one of those two week, five country type of trips here pretty soon.
thanks for asking
that you can't legislate morality!
You can tax the hell out of it....cigs, booze, etc. But it won't go away.
I'm in favor of decriminalizing it; however, the "Risk/Reward" factor favors keeping things the way they are. (MHO) The fines involved are probably less than the cost of the lawyer you'll end up calling if you get busted.
What can't be properly evaluated is the cost of losing your anonymity or good standing in the community (civilian). That's something that each person has to weigh. i.e. can I afford to lose....(fill in the blank).
The only plus I can see is that it would give Providers some legal recourse against some of the creeps who prey on them. Maybe LE wouldn't respond as quickly, but at least there would be the threat of prosecution to the "undesireables".
-- Modified on 3/17/2008 7:19:18 PM
Yes, I believe the hobby should be legalized. The US has the 2nd highest murder rate per capita in the industrialized world (only Mexico has more murders!) and LE spending millions of dollars each year policing escort services. Something is wrong with this picture.
Like someone else posted, if it's legal just treat it like any other business with licensing/health checks and let the providers self regulate. Licensed providers could charge a premium and would probably have more clients.
I don't think many providers would become licensed; however, LE could spend their time fighting hard crime.
In the US, we tend to think we can solve everything. The reality is we can't and are actually doing terrbile when when you look at crime, suicides, healthcare, and life expectancy compared to the rest of the industrialized world. Don't get me wrong, I think the US is a GREAT place to live, but as a country we have a lot of learn/improve and chasing two consenting adults who are doing nothing more than spending time with each other is NOT a good use of LE's time and taxpayer money.
I say legalize it and tax it. What? Like western civilization will go to hell in a hand basket because two people get together in a hotel room and mind there own damn business and do whatever comes up? Geez, like Spitzer and the hooker really will amount to much after the media blitz is over... oh, it already is....sorry, next....
