i have a question for providers and hobbiests alike , but first, a little backround. For the last three years i've been dealing almost exclusively with the same agency.  They're great, always top notch and the girls are just superb in every respect. no complaints. For the last two years, i've developed a "working friendship" w/one of the providers in the agency, and i've seen her at least twenty times in two years. We get along great- talk on the phone and via e-mail regularly.  The last time she was in town, I was broke.I had some business set-backs and couldn't afford the 'donation'.I let her know that as straight up as that, and told her how genuinely disapointed i was that I couldn't afford to see her. Here's my complaint.While I thoroughly recognize that this is a BUSINESS , and that she works for an agency, am I completely out of line in questioning the business sense that she exhibited by not at least saying to a loyal, regular customer," hey honey, why don't you just put what you can in the envelope this time and we'll figure it out another time?"In my business, I have done favors like that for my regular customers, and it's always payed off in good relationships. Am i crazy in looking at it this way? Should i say something when I see her the next time? or is this better left alone- mind you i 've never asked for anything for "free' or tried to negotiate her gift-
I figured letting her know i was temporarilly broke was the honest thing to do.Should i have gone to the agency owner( with whom I've also always had a good, solid customer- relationship) and asked her rather than wait for my atf to respond?  Surely, some of you providers out there must have encountered this situation yourselves.How would you have responded? I don't want to repeat myself, but let me say again i'm not a jerk and I'm not looking for a freebie.

Telling her you are temporarily hard up is OK as long as it is only in the context of why you won’t be seeing her this time. If she wants to help you in some fashion that is for her to initiate. She may not feel the same as you about your relationship. Don’t put her on the spot. On a side note, working for an agency makes it more difficult for her even if she was inclined to offer you something. Someone still has to satisfy "the house."

As for me, I would not accept it unless it was clearly a gift from her. i.e. not a loan. And even then I most likely would not accept it. It changes the relationship. Part of the payment specifically goes to NOT creating drama.

I sympathize with your financial setbacks but if you said you were broke can you really blame her for not giving you a "freebie"? You said that's not what you were looking for but effectively that's what you're proposing since if you said you were broke then what assurance does she have that you had anything to "put in the envelope" now or at a later date?

And it's not like you'll suffer some harm to do without some fun. At its heart the service she provides is a luxury, not a necessity. It's not like she was refusing to see you for a medical problem, cutting off your electricity, or declining to fix the car you need to go to work everyday.

Unless you crucially neglected to tell us that she agreed to be your girlfriend (obviously not since you yourself keep stressing the business angle) then I don't think you have any right to complain for her not obliging you without any promise of tangible compensation.

Good customer service is a two-way street. As a good business it's NICE to do something extra for the customer every now and then but it's not a requirement - providing the expected service for the payment agreed IS. No payment, no service. On a good customers part, you don't complain when they fail to do what's not expected of them only when they fail to do what IS.

between someone working for an agency and someone like myself who is independent...and speaking for myself only...if You had seen me 20 times in the past 2 years...absolutely...I would have worked something out with You...as long as there was No cost to me...and it would also be on my terms...I say when and where...and determine time frame...and that would all be based on what kind of gentleman You are...I'm a firm believer...that good things happen to good people...and what I put out there..will come back Greater...and I don't mind being used..lol...however I don't want to be taken advantage of...and there is a big difference

she does. No question about that.
20 times in 2 years? She should be kissing and licking your ass to keep you.  

You sir are an envelope to her. Nothing more.
Keep seeing her if you like her that much, but don't be insulted if she does not give you extras. If she was smart she would have accommodated you as opposed to taking a chance of loosing your income. Purely a business decision, of course.

How can you agree with a lot of the previous posts without being a hypocrite.

I would never ask a provider for a "break"; however, if I saw a certain person 20 times, I would assume she would ask why I haven't seen her in a while (and then I would have come clean).  If she didn't think I was a free-loader, I would hope she would extend open arms (as Alley indicated - a nice lady).

The problem with agencies is that it is like dealing with a bank - they don't care about you or your moral or ethics (it's too easy to look at credit scores and statistics that tell you nothing about the person - since evaluating the person involves competence).

I meet a provider 4 times in 6 weeks. I'm crazy about her, and she does good service.  But of course, she's after the envelop. That much is clear to me. She just phoned me last night - she needs $ for her hotel room.  If I'm broke, I'm sure she won't be seeing me.

I had a similar situation, I was broke when someone I had seen regularly came to town. When she emailed me she was coming, I replied I had some financial difficulties and couldn't see her and left it at that. She replied, well at least I could take you out to dinner? Sure and she even paid for it. And on later trips she sure kept me as a client.

First of all .. you are dealing with employess of agency.  So if you wanted frequent flier discount you should have addressed it with the agency.

This way you would save yourself and your lady this very uncomfortable situation when you had to ask for free session and she had to decline.

And yes, this is exactly what you asked for.  free or heavily discounted session.

This is business of PAY for PLAY.  Take one word out of this equation and you no longer have simple uncomplicated relationship between service provider and client.

That said, do INDY providers work things out with their long term clients? Often.  However, these "deals" should always be offered not asked for.

If in two years you were not given any offers by her, that should be clear sign.

Agency could be more accomodating. They could possibly forgo their cut in order to keep you as a client because first and foremost you are their client who patronises their employee.

As for comparing your treatment of your clients in your business to her treatment of you .. do you usually meet your clients butt nekkid and provide them with GFE?

Also, if she had e mailed you saying that she is broke, would you say "sure honey i will put twice the ususal amount into the envelope?"

Lina

Ladies are in this business to make money, not deliver charity. Harshly stated, but no less true. Try hobbying less and saving what you can save for a date. All of us sometime run into headwinds, you are not alone.

You were absolutely looking for a freebie. If you weren't you wouldn't have invested a paragraph on TER venting about not getting one...

Why on earth would you say anything to her about it?
We are talking about P4P nookie here dude, not something important like rent or food.  If you are broke you ask your landlord for more time or your grocery store to extend you some credit.  You don't ask a pro for free pussy.

There have been times when a fav came through town and I couldn't afford to see her but the last thing I would ever do is send them an email telling them that I'm broke. What on earth does that accomplish? Aside from hinting at a freebie or discount of course...

1. She works for an agency, it's not her call.
2. Once you cross the discount/freebie line, you can never go back.

This was a smart decision on her part, even though I understand your point. Once a month is as steady as it gets and I would be questioning it too.

It's a legit question that unfortunately has one very legit answer.

I have never asked for anything when I hobby, other than the service advertised in the time I have requested. However, with indies, I seem to receive unrushed sessions, and services not always advertised on the menu. I guess I'm a lucky guy. And when I'm having financial challenges, I just hobby with ladies I can afford or stop hobbying. I never ask for anything!

The hobby is similar to gambling. Don't get in over your head. Know what you can afford and stay within in your limits. In my opinion pussy is a lot more additive than cards. Sorry Gagambler; JMHO As far as "asking" the lady for a break; don't go there. And I'm not going to be a dick and tell you why. As others have said her being with an agency makes that almost impossible anyway.

If she was an indy, in light of all the good business you had given her, it would be more her call. Since she works for an agency that really changes things a good bit and I can understand. Unfortunately!

Do you tip her generously whenever you see her? Do you give her thoughtful gifts on a regular basis? ("Thoughtful" as in coming up with gifts that are not generic but truly appropriate for this specific lady.) Are you lavish with genuine praise for what she gives you? OTOH, are you truly considerate of her time, or do you typically run past the scheduled time? Do you initiate emails or phone calls that take up her time? Just being a regular does not, by itself, give you any right to ask for favors of any kind. In fact, a "long-term regular" who does nothing beyond filling the envelope correctly may find himself kicked to the curb eventually. YMMV.

The OP said he speaks to her and emails with her.
If SHE wanted to accommodate him she could, very easily.
Anyone who has been around for a while knows that getting a private phone # from an agency provider is not uncommon.
On the occasions that I have been given private #'s, it was not for the purpose to chit chat.
I know it is not proper protocol, but I never asked for them.      

None of the acts you mentioned give anyone the right to ask for a discount or a freebie either.

Escorting is a business. No matter how well you act, tip or gift a lady any expectation of a discount or a freebie is uncalled for...

By the way, I sincerely doubt any regular who behaves himself and puts the right amount in the envelope year in and year out is ever going to get kicked to the curb by any provider with a functioning brain.

I get treated very well by my ATF as far as extended appointments and even off the clock recreational time but the sex is always paid for. I give her gifts but the sex is always paid for. We have dinner together quite often in between appointments, but the sex is always paid for.  We've gone on a couple of extended weekend trips together, even though she won't even do overnights with her other customers...but the sex is always paid for.

It's great when you hit it off with a gal and you can enjoy the benefits of that connection but thinking that your donation is somehow worth more than that of any other regular customer is actually the best way of getting "kicked to the curb" that I can think of...

I think the OP said that he used the agency for that entire period, so she could assume he had a relationship with them.

What if the shoe was reversed? What if she called you and said she's was financially pinched and needed you to pay a visit to help her out?  Additionally, suppose you couldn't do it for financial reasons of your own or perhaps you wanted to see someone else?

I think it is a HUGE mistake for either hobbyiests or providers to convince themselves this is anything other than a pure business arrangement.  Just because you've been a good customer of a car dealer, you don't expect them to give you a car.

Even in the restaurant business, about the most you'll get is a free drink or an appetizer.  You're setting yourself up for disappointment when you conjure up an emotional attachment that isn't really there.

co-sign.

For several ladies I know, if a gent becomes a regular .. that's more important to them than getting a one time $20 or $40 tip.

Several ladies have asked me if I'm a once a month or twice a month kinda guy.  I say "once a week" and their eyes 'lit up'.

When you don't have an envelope, for that instance of sex -- she is a civie girl, complete with all of a civie girl's normal rights and expectations.

What do civie girls generally expect in exchange for sex? Love, undying devotion, engagement rings, etc. If you are married, expect to come home one day and find her engaged in a rather interesting conversation with your wife.

The envelope buys you "no strings."

Avoiding it is just plain crazy.

If you want sex without an envelope, get a girlfriend.

Without reading other responses.  Ask yourself this question:  Why do you choose to see her when there are many other women ?

Then decide if it is worth the price difference if any.

If she is a better companion.  Then you have been getting a deal for a long enough.  You should be more than happy to pay her donation.

My tip is to try and ask your boss for a raise. You can always try and make more money to afford her.

"Also, if she had e mailed you saying that she is broke, would you say "sure honey i will put twice the ususal amount into the envelope?"

For a lady that I have seen regularly for a while, probably yes.

Totally agree..

Telling her was the right thing to do, but then the ball is in her court.  As other have said, if she really though that keeping your business was important to her, she would have offered something.

And like Lina says... have you ever offered anything extra (or would you) if she mentioned she was a little tight on money?

anywhere else you "pay to play".

It's just that...pay to play and it's a BUSINESS.
It's not something you have to have to live (no matter how you convince yourself otherwise) so if you can't afford to pay...you can't afford to play.

Your efforts would be better spent on how to improve your own personal situation. If you're in "business" and can't afford a little play time...you're doing something wrong. Concentrate on that first.

And sorry...but 20 times in two years hardly a steady customer or 'regular' make. Your business is not as important to them as YOU think it is.
The only thing going to the agency owner would do is make you a laughingstock behind your back.

Just sayin'

Dear Ms. Calady:
I defintely would take the cut because I know that I would get my money back in the long run because the girl in question is frequently patronized by her. It is a one time thing it is not going to happen infinitely I hope. A matter of fact I know that it happens more times than not because I was at a call recently and my boss took a cut.

I was wondering if there was an agency girl who if you book 11 straight weeks, you get the 12th for free.  That's like 3 months, one freebie.

Or if you do weekly visits in 6 months (once a week) or 4 x 6 = 24, you get the 24th visit for free.

Haven't heard of that incentive

Twenty times in two years! That's a lot of dough my friend. I would have told her that I was busy and was sorry I couldn't see her and leave it at that. The temporary broke story may just put her into an uncomfortable spot and put a dent in your relationship with her. In the past, I have had a couple of ATF's call me and gently let me know that it's been a slow week for them and they were offering me a SUPER discount that I could not pass up but that's been only a couple of times in the last 10 years. At the present time I have a couple of ATF's who will never watch the clock and I have been lucky to get up to 4 hrs for the price of one! And the sex if fantastic too! I believe the reason for this is that they actually like to spend time with me or I'm just too damn lucky. Ether way I'm not complaining and I will continue to see them on a regular basis.

This hobby is a luxury not a necessity. The amazing ladies in this profession provide us a wonderful service and we all should be thankful for their efforts. If for some reason you can't afford to see your ATF, don't. There will be another time. On the other hand you know you're doing well when the ladies start to offer YOU extra's that they don't offer others such as extra time off the clock or extra "tours" that they are never reviewed or known for but will do with you..

Good luck and stay safe.

SR  

If I was the provider in question, and all your background info. stated above was true, I would cut you a break every once in a while. I understand how hard it has gotten when dealing with the economy. I am sure we are just getting a little taste of the major catastrophe that is headed our way. I believe that you should never bite the hand that feeds you as long as the hand is honest and loyal. I haven't had a major decline in appts. but I am sure that the worse this economy gets, the more cancellations I will see, so why not help out those who have been there to help you through.

I do, on the other hand, understand that just because I haven't had an issue with appts., there are others who have and maybe cannot afford to give you a break no matter who you are. You have no way of knowing what that lady's financial situation is, therefore, she may actually be in the same boat you are.

I hope you come out and rise above your financial issues. Hopefully, things will get back to normal.

I have to limit my play for budget reasons.  I've had set backs too.  I have explained that to my Favs but never expected a freebee.  I've not been disapppointed.  
An Indie lady MIGHT have more flexibility with her paid time & offer a returning friend a discount...  Grandfathering rates IS a discount, for instance.  
I do not know if an agency would do so.  They might IF you've been booking through them regularly...  but then you might have already been receiving one!  
I you're expecting more then that, I don't think you're going to get it.  Loaning money is frought with risk...  & likely the borrower will avoid future meetings due to embarassment.  So the lender looses anyway.
If you already messaged her "Sorry I can't see you now."  That's enough.  If you see her again, limit yourself to that & catch up & have a good time.  That's what I do & it's fine.
skb

I have cut someone a break...sort of. A very long standing client( I have been seeing him lately every week) of over 5 years had a cash flow issue and I saw him and allowed a deferred payment for a couple of weeks. Not quite the same but I knew he was good for it. he also gets an extra hour of my time every time we meet...one hour of play time and another hour of hanging out shooting the breeze. The business part is always paid for but the hanging out is because he is a special client and I don't mind one bit.

AN independent provider can make a choice based on her schedule, capitol expenses already invested, etc. If there is no additional capitol expense, ans she has an open schedule - why not? I would hope that you're both open to a last minute cancellation if she gets a call from a paying customer.

For an agency gal, the equation is very different. Depending on the agency, the ladies often have little control over the scheduling, and asking for a break, or complaining about the scheduling (at some agencies), will result in her getting fewer clients.

I find it very duplicitous to say you don't want a freebie. You do. It is also an individual business choice, which must be respected.

Map this to an analogy of the whole buy on cash/credit issue... some do, some don't

Dear Hound_Dog69:
Not a freebie a small discount this time. Thats all.

There was someone who saw me for 2 hours every week.  Economy tanks, his cash flow goes sour and he asks me to work out a special rate for couple of months. Understading was that he "will make it up once things get better".

I was accomodating but guess what happened? He started asking for bigger and bigger discount every time we were together .. then for free sessions ..

Eventually I had to mention that he may be better off contacting me when his finances get in better shape.  I received a very angry communication accusing me of being all about the money.

Lesson learned.

If you weren't looking for a freebie you would not inquire as to if you should have contacted the agency to get it instead of her on your freebie fishing expedition.

You were trying to passive-aggressively ask for a freebie
You didn't come right out and ask for a freebie, you just hinted that you were broke hoping she would give you a freebie...and then wondered if you should have played that game with the agency instead.

You were asking for a freebie you were just being manipulative (and badly so) in how you did so.

Maybe you haven't noticed but the economy sucks a bit a right now, and a lot of people have had setbacks in their income...including the ladies (indy and agency alike).

She works for an agency, so had she given you a freebie, she would most likely have had to pay the house fees herself (you think you are a good enough client she would be glad to pay out of her pocket to see you?)  if she gave you the best discount she could without having to take anything out of her own pocket, she would have given you the session for just the house fee and done the work for free.

Believe it or not the hobby is a luxury and so when times are tight fewer clients see the ladies...ladies all over the place are cutting rates, traveling etc just to earn less than what they did 1 - 3 years ago...
but because you had a setback financially she should toss you a freebie?  when she may already be earning less than she did when you met her a couple years ago?  yeah you had a temporary setback so she should possibly give herself an even greater setback?

Times have been tougher for the ladies for the last few years, when was the last time you just sent a lady her fee without expecting a session because they have fallen on harder times?  when was the last time you paid double for a session because you knew business was down for the ladies?

You don't know how good or slow her business has been, you don't know how busy or slow her tour is, maybe she isn't making enough on the current tour to cover her own bills, but you want to be disappointed she didn't toss you a freebie, you want to be disappointed she didn't pull money out of her own pocket to pay the house so you could be a happy client.

You say how you have tossed deals to clients in the past...how many have you tossed them since your setback?  when you are broke how many freebies do you give your clients?  For all you know she is broke right now, and can't afford to give you a deal anymore than you can afford to pay her.  

You wanted a freebie, you made a half-assed hint at that fact and were disappointed she didn't offer you one...and want to say she lacks business  sense.

Many of us spend extra time with regulars because we want to -- and enjoy them -- but don't ever expect a freebie. If someone wants to give you more time then it's a gift, but don't expect anything because that is when ladies feel like they are taken for granted and will stop seeing you.

Hugs,
Ciara

co-sign again.

First off, there are rules when you work for an agency.  So you should contact the agency about a one-time discount, not the girl.

Ok, some of you guys may not know that most agency's split 50/50.  That means if you normally comp 400hr the girl only takes home 200$ of that.  Sucks huh?

The other thing is, if a lady is caught seeing a guest she met through the agency on the side she gets fired.  Not just fired, her name is often given to other agencies warning of what happened so they will not hire the girl either.  It can force a girl into being an indy or into a shoddy operation.

So, if she were to say just leave what you can for me and make it up later here is what it comes down to.

-She still has to pay the agencies fee, so if you leave her 200$ then she pays the agency and takes nothing for her time.  So what you feel is cutting you a break for her in essence is a freebie.  Or if say this time you could only come up with 100$ or 150$, now she would in effect have to come out of her own pocket to pay the agency fee.  I hate to say it but some guys have in past to some girls said, I'll get you next time and then even though they were a long time regular NEVER return or make good.

-If she agree's to see you off the clock for a lesser amount she could be fired and black balled from the community.

If she were an indy she would be able to provide a little flex, what with you being a frequent visitor....  But she isn't so that choice is no longer hers.

If you bring it up next time you visit it is likely to make for a very awkward date and likely to end your long time friendship.  I would avoid it at all costs and try not to dwell on it.  If you can't let it go then don't visit her again, because she does not deserve to be treated differently over something she has no control over.

Take Care, Sage

It's an indulgence for you. For her and the agency owner(s) it's what paying the bills.

poor you, poor you, poor you ha ha ha...ya know, I saw this amazing pocketbook that I REALLY wanted at Macy's a few weeks ago...however, it was just a cpl days prior that I had sent out a HUGE check to cover summer camp, paid all my bills and paid for our summer vaca...that of course left me with very little play money...I did not ask the lady behind the counter for a discount because I have already purchased several of these pocketbooks in the past...nor did I call the owner of "Coach" and tell them how deserving I am of such a treat for a lesser price than the rest of the female population...what I did do is use the one (s) I already have...another situation...I was behind a group of women in dunkin donuts this past weekend...one of them asked the guy at the counter if they gave out freebies...ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!? soooooo, you are horny and broke...use what ya got and have at it...asking for freebies is very unattractive and it will get you nothing more than a polite "please go elsewhere"...don't get stuck on stupid...I like a lot of my clients...but unless you are going to settLe down with me, pay half the bills and fetch coach pocketbooks on demand lol my time isn't free...ALL HAIL MARY PALM!

Babe, I would have said yes I am all about the money and since when were you not in regard to your job. Comments like that make me hit the delete button and block calls.

There are just some people that push till they get pushed back and then cry like a baby. You just saved yourself a whole lot of aggravation by cutting this one loose.

Because my pre-date prep looks something like this ...

Check envelope
Shower
Shave ass
Check envelope
Shave face (different razor)
Check envelope
Check envelope
Brush teeth
Check envelope
Get dressed
Check envelope
Make sure I have directions
Check envelope
Check envelope
Check envelope
Arrive
Worry that envelope might not be right
LOL