The above question is mostly for fellow hobbyists, but I welcome insights from providers too.

I decided to try being a sugar daddy as a happy medium between mongering and civilian dating. I signed up for a leading “arrangements” website and began communicating with sugar babies; I have been on eight dates. Below are some observations and lessons learned the hard way. I would appreciate any feedback or guidance on these issues and the general arrangements scene. I know “the rules of the road” for mongering and civilian dating, but arrangements are uncharted territory for me, so I would appreciate any pointers or rules of thumb. Above all, I want to know if you think that arrangements are better or worse than this hobby overall or in specific ways, and if you think that they are a viable alternative to or substitute for mongering.

I generally found the photos of sugar babies more attractive than those of providers. This observation may reflect my personal taste in body types, as it seems that a larger proportion of the sugar baby population is curvy or voluptuous. This observation may also reflect my preference for the more candid and realistic photos that many sugar babies use, rather than the professional and often edited glamor shots of many providers. Out of the eight girls that I met, all had accurate photos, and none of them disappointed me in person. Have you ever walked down the street, seen a hot girl, and said to yourself, “damn, I wish she were a provider!” That is the kind of girl that you find in the arrangements scene.  

Many sugar babies are effectively hookers. In fact, I saw photos of a well-reviewed provider on a sugar baby's profile, which otherwise matched the provider's description. Most sugar babies expect at least some token wining & dining before you fuck them, but others cut to the chase and either come to your place or invite you to theirs. One of my dates turned out to be an outcall to my apartment, even though I had offered to take her out to dinner first. Even sugar babies who claim to want a weekly or monthly “allowance” usually accept it on a “per meet” basis for each date in an initial trial period, until both parties are comfortable with a longer arrangement. I wonder how many of these “per meet” dates actually turn into longer arrangements, or if they differ little in substance from the “dinner date” packages that many professional providers offer.

If many sugar babies function in practice like hookers, then they are amateurs without reviews, and the quality of my experiences with them has varied wildly. I presume that the same is true for sugar daddies too – they would be like hobbyists without whitelistings or references. Compared to the hobby, the arrangement scene is the Wild West, with little or no way to vet your dates beyond talking to them, and no accountability – the only incentive for either party to behave properly (beyond basic decency) is the desire to avoid offending someone that you want to see again. Many of the sugar babies are extremely flaky, and it is difficult to get them to do basic things, like return calls and messages in a timely manner and show up on time, compared to the professionalism of most providers. All but two of the eight girls that I met were significantly late, and one of the two that arrived on time did so because I had arranged her transportation for her. I had arranged two other dates beyond the eight that actually occurred, but two of them stood me up without any communication – NCNS, in hobby terms. As for the quality of the sex, it was significantly lower than that of professional providers. Only one was top-notch, which I attribute to the combination of our greater chemistry and rapport and her origins in Latin America, where women generally fuck better. Another one was good, one was OK, one was mediocre, and three of them were abysmal; another had such an obnoxious personality that it outweighed her hotness, so I aborted the date after dinner.

A key advantage of the arrangements scene is its online and in-person “meet & greet” aspect, which is far more extensive than the occasional M & Gs in major cities for our hobby. In fact, it is an integral component of the scene. One interacts with other users of the website to assess compatibility and chemistry via some combination of reading profiles, exchanges of private messages and photos, phone communications, or in-person meetings (dinner, drinks, coffee, etc.) These exchanges can be very helpful to build rapport and identify those that may or may not be a good fit. I had a one hour phone call with the sugar baby with whom I have had the best date so far, which I took as a sign that we would be compatible, and it probably helped to build rapport for the subsequent date. This screening process is by no means perfect, however – I also had a substantial phone conversation with the sugar baby who was so obnoxious that I aborted the date, but I did not observe any indications thereof during that phone call; I suspect that she deliberately concealed her true personality in order to get the date.

The arrangements scene has much more YMMV than our hobby. Most hobbyists with enough money and screening details should have few or no problems booking a session with most providers, beyond age or ethnic restrictions (e.g. 40+ only, “no black guys,” etc.), unusually selective providers, and availability issues. You can reasonably expect to have a good time with a well-reviewed provider if you behave properly. Sugar babies are much more selective; many of them will not communicate with you at all if they see something that they do not like on your profile (e.g. photos, age, ethnicity, income, hobbies, goals for an arrangement, etc.), or they will abandon the conversation or date if they hear, read, or sense something that they do not like. The beneficial flip side of this YMMV is that you can have a much better time with the ones that genuinely find you appealing as something more than a source of income – as I believe to have been the case with my most successful date thus far. Sugar babies motivations' vary considerably – some have purely financial motivations, while others look for the same things that they would seek in a regular date, plus some money on the side.

Another dynamic that may be unfamiliar to hobbyists is the frequency with which sugar babies approach sugar daddies. I receive an average of 10-15 unsolicited messages from sugar babies each day. There are WAY more sugar babies than sugar daddies, so the competition forces the former to be proactive. Another lesson that I learned is to avoid any girl that makes the first move. Out of my eight dates so far, all of the ones that approached me turned out terrible, and all of the better ones were with girls that I had initially approached. This pattern best explains the varying quality of my experiences. My dates improved once I began ignoring unsolicited messages from new girls.

The other key factor is age. Three dates of my worst dates were also the oldest: 31, 30, and 27. The lower-quality experiences with the older sugar babies had nothing to do with appearance: in fact, the two oldest were also the two hottest. I believe that the older sugar babies focused more on what they wanted, both financially and physically, at my expense, which may explain why they initially approached me. I also noticed that older sugar babies tend to ask for more money. I had two mediocre dates and one bad date with 18 year-olds, whom I believe lacked the maturity and experience to have a fruitful arrangement with a man twice their age (I am 36). My best two dates (the only two that I will ask for a second date) were close in age to each other and a happy medium between the two extremes - 23 and 24: young enough to follow my lead, but old enough to connect with me in a meaningful way.

Was there a question buried in there somewhere?

If so, would you please ask it instead of writing a not so short novel?

Your question is entirely in the subject line. The answer is yes.  
Your post is way too long to read.
By the way you should be on The Erotic Highway board instead of the GD board.

As you've discussed, there are a number of factors to consider. Depending on how each guy views those factors and their importance, your question will be answered yes or no.

If you're more just looking for a survey, I'll say that my p4p is about 2/3 sugar dating and 1/3 hobbying

END OF MESSAGE

Can you give us the cliff's notes version?

The ladies are generally professional and skilled at being great company and really fun partners.
As long as your nice and straight with them, you can almost always have the kind of company you want
There is remarkably little muss and fuss, when your not on purpose with one of them you are not entangled.  

The sugar baby business sounds like civie dating without the closeness, excitement, and slowly earned affection, but with the aggravation.

Perhaps you should put it out in installments at the rate of one per week?

Agree with GaG . . .  . Is there a specific question you had?

END OF MESSAGE

Don't try to do both (hobby and sugarbabe) at the same time. Keep in mind that sugarbabes are not always available like providers. Also unlike providers where you can cut them off very fast, it is hard do as with a sugarbabe.  When they want to have sex you have to be available for them. Sometimes they get upset if you are the type that likes to workout a lot.  The good thing is that you don't have to give them something or pay them cash every time you see them.  

The main reason why a lot of guys are going the sugarbabe route is the LE crackdowns nationwide, imho.

-- Modified on 10/26/2016 11:22:30 PM

... how fucked up all of us are for posting here and/or writing reviews!

I'll just go by paragraph

1. I'm trying out sugar dating; here is what I think, let me know what you think.

2. I prefer curvy, voluptuous types, and I find more of that in sugar dating. Also, I like the "realness" of the girls.

3. It seems that sugar babies are really just amateur hookers, although some may want to work up to it with dinner, but essentially the p4p aspect is the same.

4. Although they are hookers, they are unreviewed. So the sugar dating world is extremely unpredictable. Many are flaky, and sugar dating clearly presents a risk.

5. On the other hand, instead of reviews you get more ability to learn about them through their profile and any dinner/drinks/dating type stuff. But, this still isn't foolproof.

6. Accordingly, the sugar dating world is way more YMMV than lobbying -- but since it varies in both directions, that can be a great thing.

7. I have noticed sugar babies tend to be very forward about contacting me, but in my experience the ones who reach out tend to be worse at the whole thing.

8. There is a range of ages, and I've had the best experiences in the middle of that range -- not too young, not too old.

END OF MESSAGE

END OF MESSAGE

Sure made me chuckle!

Steph xoxo

-- Modified on 10/26/2016 9:29:58 PM

to the OP without falling asleep first.  Again, kudos for making this manageable.

"cheez notes" are an accurate synopsis of your post.  

I tried SD/SB relationships three times.  It was always with girls in their 20's (two were college students) and as you note, not equal in looks to the girls I see in P4P.  I tried the way where I paid a monthly "allowance" for unlimited access, basically supporting the girl in exchange for exclusivity.  Some girls have more than one SD, and these can be less expensive.  In each case, the first few months were better than I dreamed they could be, averaging out to about $50 per hour that I would spend with each one,  but at some point, they get "comfortable" with the idea that they have you "hooked" and try to exert power in the relationship.  Gradually, they became not available at the times that worked for me, and I started to see them less and less until I reached a point where it was getting more expensive per hour than P4P with hookers.  These relationships are also difficult to end without a lot of drama, which is at odds with the ease from which you can move from girl to girl in the P4P world.  Finally, if you like variety like I do, these arrangements may not be the best match for you.

if you should contact them through their business website and ads as long as you pass their screening procedure, you are still not guaranteed of the same outcome if you happen to come upon their SA profile and contact them as a potential SB.  

Why? Simply put, when not bound by the rules of the so-called "professionalism", if they had to select a john to see on an "arrangement" basis, they will have to feel attracted to something about him (well, initially about his profile) and that their consent and expectations of a connection as an SB can be vastly different than when they slip into their hooker shoes. While still the same person, their hooker alter ego accepts payment for their affection a lot more easily than their SB persona which still expects the potential SD to earn at least a bit of the "lady's" affection.

On the flip side, a john will many times pay a misrepresenting hooker just to do the deed, get it over and done with whereas in the Sugar World if the potential SB grossly misrepresents herself, there will be no arrangement, allowance, review repercussions, blow backs, etc.

If I were you, I would have some fcuking manners and would not delve into your experiences in the sugar world, while posting on the general (main) discussion board of a major league hooker review board! This is a touchy subject for both hookers and johns but luckily for some of us, TER has been gracious to allow us banter about our experiences as SDs on The Erotic Highway.

END OF MESSAGE

some just want to complicated things... fall in love, the girl fall in love, screw up relationships, marriages...
getting mad, jealous.. it's too much. But to each their own.

Yes, Sugar-dating can be a good alternative if you have the time as it does take longer to get laid that seeing a provider and can either end up being a better alternative if you land a good SB for a better price with no clock watching, but it comes with cons like broken hearts, drama and stress.

Good point  paid sessions with sugar babies broken hearts and drama and stress.Paid sessions with all levels hookers without No stress and drama and broken hearts.

-- Modified on 10/27/2016 8:20:57 AM

I have had three SB/SD relationships, two were through a well known site that is one of the more expensive sites. I found that several of the popular ones out there now that are very inexpensive for the SD to join are filled mostly with false profiles and very inaccurate or fake pictures. My suggestion is if you are going to go this route that you do your homework and only invest in one of the higher end sites, when I say higher end they are affordable.  

All three of these set-ups were prior to me entering "this world". In fact having those three set-ups are what moved me into this world. Two of my arrangements were with young ladies heading into their senior year of college so my arrangement with them was predetermined. Each began in September and ended at the end of April. The third was with a young lady entering her junior year of college but she was already 27 as she started college much later than most.  

The three arrangements were 90% the same as I mirrored the first one because it went perfectly. The 10% was simply adjusting to schedules. Would I do it again? Without hesitation as long as it is with a legitimate SB that is in it for what it is and not to play games. If it is set up correctly and with the right SB it is an amazing thing as long as neither of you let your emotions come into play. I am sure that is easier said than done but in my case I am 3-3.

If you are asking why am I not in a SD/SB arrangement now, I just haven't found what looks like the perfect set up. I still belong to the same site and communicate often with different ladies. After plenty of texts and phone calls they move to dinner dates where we discuss the intimate details to make sure we are crystal clear. I simply have not found that connection yet. I will close by saying that I would not actively dwell in both worlds at the same time. I would still see one or two of the ladies I see regularly but I would not seek new ladies and I would keep it simplified. My advice is summed up by keep it simple, join a very reputable site, and be crystal clear before committing.

I also take my time as the bed hopping is no longer too important to me at this age (early 50's). I "weed through" the nonsense a bit more thoroughly and I concentrate on legitimate college SBs. I have picked up a couple of them right from their college campus before we headed off to lunch. Can those also be a ruse? Well, of course but honestly who would go to such nefarious ends to meet up with a potential SD walking right out of a lecture hall, other than some really twisted and mentally disturbed person.  

Also most college SBs already live off of some form of grant so their expectations are not too outrageous and too outlandish. Living in a major cosmopolitan area has added expenses so for a potential SB to make arrangements for 1-2 benefactors to help out with the extra bills is not a bad strategy. I stay away from those who are only available once or twice a months while citing their compressed scholastic as the reason. I have found them to be "higher volume" SBs whom I rather walk away from.  

It may take up to a whole month or so of communications and back and forth in order to land a pretty good SB which is most definitely out of the realm of acceptability for many of the johns and mongers on here. Like GaGa had said it before, if you are willing to lease rather to buy or to rent, this is a pretty good option but as always you must understand the fine print in the leasing contract

Very well said as I am in my early 50's as well. I have never found one outside the site I belong to but am sure if you look in the right place it can happen just like you shared. As for the frequency that is exactly what I meant when I talked about schedules aligning. It has to be perfect for both parties. I also agree that it takes time to make sure you are on the same page, that is why I believe in texts and calls a plenty prior to meeting for dinner to get granular.  

I definitely approach this as I would any business decision, there needs to be full disclosure on both sides with no hidden surprises. If you can weed those out prior to full commitment it is awesome.

One addition in case you or someone else may have misunderstood the gist of the first previous paragraph:

I do NOT troll outside college campuses looking for potential SBs so to make things clear! I merely meant that I have picked them up to take to lunch after the first meet on neutral territory. All my connections with college SBs have been facilitated through the main SD/SB site

Appreciate the clarification. I did not take it as you were trolling the campuses but did think that was the vessel on how you met, which could have been a few different realistic ways. Glad you are not a troll.... As I said earlier someone needs to just do their due diligence as there are numerous popular SB/SD sites that are awful and not worth a penny investment. Like a lot of things, you get what you pay for and if you are going to take the time to play in that world you need to be wise with where you play.

War and Peace. Now that there is funny!

MANY times, in fact most of the time I get laid by an SB in no more time than many guys take to get laid by a hooker.  

Of course I typically book same day with a hooker, and that's very rarely going to happen with a POT SB, unless she is just a hooker using SA as an ad venue. That said, most of my sugar dates all happen within a few days of first contact or they don't seem to ever happen at all, and I have to say well over 50% of my first dates with POT SB's end up with us having sex. It's very rare that my dates follow the "typical" pattern of having a "meet and greet" non sexual date where allowances and expectations are discussed, with a "real" date coming after the M&G. I love to fuck and I see no reason to do a long dance before getting to the "good stuff"

36 y.o.  LOL...try that stuff at 63 and see where it gets you.  Anyway, I have dangled a hook in the water a couple times just to see if anything comes of it, and this has been my observation...
Sugar Babies don't get that there is a 3-dimensional (or 4 if you count personality) grid that they must fit into:
Looks
Time
Expectations
I see so so many ladies that are lower on the looks scale (usually size related), have 3 kids, 2 jobs, and going to school at night that have the higher end expectations.  Do I have stupid written across my head?
I usually arrange a "no expectation" lunch or early evening get together to see if we might match.  So far this method has worked well and while I have both culled and been culled the couple of times I have clicked have been good.
So, while I continue to look for a SB of some sort I enjoy the hobby when available.  I live in a very very poor talent area (and I sure don't get that) and so that is rare as well.

Happy Hunting everyone!

whore and piece?

Too funny. your budget is $50 per lady. You told me yourself via PM. How could you not keep $50 on the side to see one of your back page conquests?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I wonder if this is true and if it plays a role in encouraging SD/SB arrangements: "main events" take place uncovered, very much like those in civvie relationships.

Umm, common sense should rule the roost. Unless you see same day std results, you better suit up.  Do you think you're the only magical person to know that sugarbaby? She's a half a step away from prostitution she just doesn't realize it yet.

-- Modified on 10/30/2016 3:27:50 AM