Once they are broken, they cannot be put back, and it is never the same.

So no matter how close you might become to a client or a provider, think think think before you start pushing those boundaries too far.

Once its too late you may apreciate how uncomplicated and how blissful things were before...   and long for those days

got his ass kicked out the door!
This kinda stuff has been posted at least 1000 times in the last 6 months.....Pay Attention!

Like every person's boundaries are different and exist for different reasons.

It also seems to me that any adult mature enough to be either a hobbyist or provider should also be able to make his/her own decisions in this regard.

Does a change in boundaries change things? Yes it does. And re-establishing them is nearly impossible. Agreed.

But it is up to consenting adults to do the cost-benefit analysis on that for themselves.

in my case.

But I played the BFE game. Gave out too much information. Let things get too comfy. Did not really promise anything - I don't think - but may have been taken that way in all honesty.

How sweet it used to be. Now - drama.

Every broken hearted hobbyist, every provider with a stalker, everyone who has a failed relationship, wants to make judgements for the rest of us.

Boundaries mean different things for different people. Married hobbyists have one set of boundaries, based of course on the fact that they are already cheating on their current wife. Single hobbyists have quite a different set of boundaries, but ones that they need to set for themselves.

If the OP's motive was to vent a little about his current situation, fine, but anybody who thinks that their failures mean squat to the rest of us, is sadly mistaken.

John, that was the long version of me agreeing with you. lol

kinda the equivalent of saying murder is bad---now that we've finished with these keen & oft used insights, let's go back to topics that matter such as : do Albanian midget hobbyists make the best lovers ? & If Lorena Bobbit were a provider would she be a cut above average ?------

some boundaries are more serious than others. some people are more forgiving than others. so it all depends.

where the "hobby" is different from real life is that some boundaires are defined more restrictively here and some of the players are less forgiving.

boundaries are by mutual consent. i've always played within what i understand to be the accepted negotiated boundaries with only two exceptions i'll cite below.

i am also not hung up on renegotiating where the boundaries lie. for me, renegotiating an arrangement of proven value with someone is preferrable to treating them as disposable if they find they can't hold up their end of the deal. YMMV.

now i'll tell my examples of a boundary violation. with two separate ladies that i did not know very well i carried my shaving kit out of the shower and into the bedroom. in both instances a little discussion ensued in which i was questioned a little tersely about why i had done that. so i explained and showed and told. there was a discussion and a brief recovery and the sessions continued to happy conclusions.

this puzzled me as to why 2 very different providers should be so sensitive about a shaving kit. what boundary had i crossed? this was not explained by either they were too intent on rescuing the mood. but i needed to understand so.....

i called up a retired provider friend and she provided me with an aha moment. apparently some guys try to sneak cameras and other recording devices into sessions so they can share the recorded content with their buddies.

i'm not going to assume that yours is a "fall in love story". it may be but that is certainly not the only boundary to cross.

she'd be a real slice of life

Why in the hell people just can't pay, fuck and go on their merry way is beyond me? If there is a boundary to be crossed, think hard about going there because some shit can't be undone. Wise words that will be taken and not taken. I guess we know that.

I brought a small bag with personal needs to my ATFs location.  It would make a good camera bag.  I have rarely taken it in to meetings but did this time.  She noticed it this time & did indeed look at it very hard.  I told her what was in it.  Had we not been friends (real names) for 4 years, it might have spoiled the occasion.

I'd imagine LE would bring bugs or devices into a meeting...
skb

being neither LE nor a not-so-nice client-stalker the kit was innocent. the reason i brought my kit out of the bathroom with me was that i wanted to discuss whether a female condom could be used part time. no camera, no bug, just the FCs and the usual dental care, shaving, and soap stuff.

i suppoose i can sometimes be a little insensitive about the peculiar security concerns of the hobby. i'm usually extremely well trusted in "real" life and haven't adapted to the hobby quite yet. i'm lucky to have a friend or two on the provider side who feel free to let me know when i have messed up without turning it into a huge drama fest.

It isn't always the hobbyist who initiates crossing of boundaries.

Only for those lacking the backbone with which to honestly rationalize these activities. "Blur" only occurs if you let it or want it to. If their ever was a fire to be burnt with it most surely resides here. At least have the courage to be straight up about it. Life is grand. Have fun and fuck "rules".

I see a provider, we have a great time, I leave.
It's pretty simple!

Agreed! The poor bastards that have to find love because they think it comes with the tuition are the in the majority, but a few providers looking to upgrade their lives find a way to muck it up only to find out the guy wasn't who she thought he was. Go figure that! How many times have you seen a provider leave the scene only to get bounced back because she chose the wrong one?

You put garbage into the computer, you are going to get garbage out of the computer.

In the hobby it is DIDO, drama in, drama out.

And it can go in both directions.

All the rules in the world don't matter if the participants don't follow them.

of all of the acronyms in the hobby content domain:

Drama In Drama Out - DIDO - very catchy!

A few years ago, a provider I had formerly often seen called and asked me to meet her for lunch. There, choking back tears, she said she was thinking about retiring from the biz, that I was the nicest guy she'd ever met, and would I consider a relationship with her. It was a huge compliment. She was lovely and a great person. But I knew it wouldn't work. Not because she'd been a provider, but because of other things going on in her life. But who knows. Maybe those "other things" kept me from having to fully weigh the odds of a successful transition from a provider-client relationship. Either way, she had just taken a big risk by laying her heart on the table, and it was important to me to treat that heart well. I thanked her for the huge compliment (and meant it), and said that (and this was true) I'd just begun a new relationship and I needed to give it a chance. I heard from her twice more over the next three years. Both were friendly, nice conversations. Haven't heard from her since. It's a sweet memory. I hope things turned out well for her.

For every different combination of provired and client who see each other enough that boundaries are an issue, the boundaries are different.

If both understand and agree, the boundary can be almost anywhere.  Who can define the boundary from regular to ATF to mistress to girlfriend?

I'm sure he misses you, too....

-- Modified on 3/14/2010 12:04:52 PM

i hope that her life and yours are each turning out well. it is good that you are able to detach without drama.

for me it would be very difficult to have a someone one i cared for simply disappear. my exes have been very kind and understanding of this. we've (with an odd exception) kept in touch through the transitions into ex-status and also afterwards. in almost every case it was clear that the relationship was no longer functioning so i had to assume reluctantly the task of terminating things. doing the practical stuff that ended the relationship.

so knowing that there was a happy ending for them was always very good for me. it was a relief to have verification offered that "the right thing" happened.

the hobby world is a bit more dangerous, though. i am given to understand that some "ladies" will try to exploit news of a falling out for their own profit. they will try to use negative gossip as a marketing tool to get your attention and cash.

eventually it becomes clear that hearing and acting on that kind of venomous gossip is not healthy. one chooses to preserve some treasured memories and cuts off the sources of the negative misninformation.

recently a public event brought a large number of folks together. a few of these folks i know a little. one i knew well but no longer see, a provider whi i didn't realize until long after starting to see her that we had a number of acquaintances in common.

anyway the event gave me a clear and unbiased picture of my former friend's current life. i was able to see enough to know: that she was well and happy and, while there were some challenges, she was not taking the destructive and unwholesome turn the predatory gossips would have had me believe.

a result of a "meeting of the minds" on a TER board.  I agree it is OK to vent some here, but frequent debate as to defining the boundaries is futile.  Live life.  It will all work out if you simply respect the other person.  It working out might mean an end to it and that might suck, but better to seek the best and fail than to live more lies than we already have to.

I myself don't understand the guys that would never tell a special lady how they feel in fear of losing their "favorite provider".  Better to move on than try walking that tightrope forever.  More respectful too.  IMO

LOL seen it happen too many times and yeah it's a trainwreck waiting to happen.

So how much did you spend on her efore you realized she was completely and totally in love with you?  Did you wear fancy clothes to impress her?

Basically, did you go far out of your way to bring this on yourself instead of leaving it as a simple business transaction?

A fair question. Nope, this was out of the blue.

My mistake, wearsglasses, I actually meant this question for riddlemethis...