I know from personal experience ladies and gents here make up stories, exaggerate and so forth. But usually false claims can be spotted. However, what if there is a claim of which you are unaware? Or what if someone says something you believe to be untrue.
For example, a lady flamed a gentleman I know very well. I have known and seen him for years. Not only has he never stood me up or shorted me, but he has always been a complete gentleman, and goes above and beyond to make me feel comfortable.
I haven't told him yet or confronted the woman, but I hate to think he is being slandered, and his info being spread around based on possibly false claims.
Just because he hasn't exhibited a behavior with you which she claims he exhibited with her doesn't mean that it didn't occur.
I'd say that by refraining from instigating further aggravation between him and her you would effectively protect YOUR OWN reputation and as a business woman, that should be your primary concern.
slander can have both a negative and a positive effect. i welcomed hearing about a case where a lady (not in my profile) made some wildly false claims about my behavior.
so if you've heard a rumor about me toting a gun: i've never owned one. i haven't touched one since i was 12 years old. nothing against those who do own, either.
the rumor was effective with people who are easily led into letting others do their thinking for them and who do not know me well.
i chose to respond very mildly since the way i figured it: the folks who simply believed it were not likely suitable as companions anyway.
but then i prefer to repeat with established friends, variety isn't so important to me. i imagine that for someone more interested in a variety of companions it would be much more upsetting.
before telling, i would ask them if they would want to know, if i wasn't sure. some people react very badly to gossip and would rather not know. once you are sure that they want to know and you have no reason to doubt that they would be civilized in how they would go about defending themselves. why not?
Every situation is different. Take her flaming with a grain of salt, but also remember that a gentleman can be a gentleman with you, while still acting like an asshat with another lady.
About a year ago I came across a warning on a provider site about a gentleman I'd seen several times. She claimed he attempted to remove the condom without her knowing about it. He had never done anything remotely like that with me, never even hinted around about BBFS. So I took her claim with a grain of salt, and assumed she probably had sour grapes over something. Perhaps he cancelled on her at the last minute or even NCNS'd her. Or maybe she's territorial and is trying to make sure other ladies refuse to see him. I don't know.
But I debated seriously whether to tell him about the warning or not. It really bothered me to see such a warning posted about such a nice guy. In the end, I decided it was best to say nothing, so I bit my tongue even when I saw him yet again. Again, when I saw him, I observed nothing at all out of the ordinary. No request for doggie (the favored position for sneaking the raincoat off), no hints about BBFS. Nothing. He was just his usual sweet self. But for the sake of the confidentiality nescessary for warning sites to work correctly, I said nothing.
Well guess what? Two new warning about him have now shown up since I last saw him. Each from different ladies. So it is now safe to assume the first lady was probably telling the truth after all, and for reasons I'll never know, I just happened to see him on a good day I guess, and regardless of how he's been with me, I simply won't see him again.
So the moral of the story is take 'flames' with a grain of salt, and always bear in mind that the behavior you see isn't necessarily the behavior others see. Most importantly - stay out of the center of it until or unless you absolutely have to. I am SO glad now that I decided that discretion is the bettr part of valor and kept my mouth shut when I saw him.
just because one or some did not like hs board posts, or wanted to get back at him for a rewview they did not like, or because one of them had a personal issue with him or myriad other reasons
not saying that what you report is not true and factual, just that providers have been known to use slander (as have hobbyists) for personal reasons.....
Well, that is precisely why I took it with a grain of salt when the first warning showed up. But when three different women all report the same experience with him, that changes things. Either way, I won't be taking any more chances by continuing to see him. From now on when he calls I will either already be booked, or mother nature will be calling, or family is in town, etc. Nor will I give so much as a hint about why I am forever busy. ONce a guy knows he's been blacklisted, that simply encourages him to attempt to circumvent screening.
skepticism at the first report is reasonable. if many unrelated and independent sources confirm the bad behavior then it is best to take it seriously.
but if the multiple sources are _related_ in some way, then there's about whether the sources are independent. if it is important enough, it is sometimes good to trace things back to see if it all comes from a single ORIGINAL source.
there was once a provider i was interested in seeing. i heard one bad thing from several sources about her, not enough to put me off, though. the "several sources" were NOT independent. they were related in a group that collaborated. so i treated it as a single instance: several folks playing "follow the leader". i booked and nothing bad happened. the provider is someone i would repeat with.
on another occasion the same thing happened. i got warnings from a different group. i went ahead and booked again. but this time i got a heads up from a completely independent source. so i cancelled and i have to say that if i hadn't it would have been a very bad thing: it made the news.
please do not draw conclusions that i am talking about any group of providers here. one of the groups above consists of providers the other consists of hobbyists. either side indulges in "follow the leader" on occasion.
"relationships" between providers (or hobbyists) are not always clear.....because hobbyists / providers from different markets communicate wtih one another and sometimes have common interests or bonds
motivations for attacking someone are also not always transparent
I've heard negatives about providers I have seen or see, and I *always* go with my experience and intuition, and not with the "gossip", whether well founded or not..... I would hope that if I had established a good relationshp with a provider, she would extend me that same courtesy under similar circustances....
i think that even independent minded new folks (on either side of the envelope) may be more susceptible to believing or being confused by reports. at least until they have enough experience to sort things out better on their own.
i know in my first year, i was easily confused by such "noise" and made some mistakes. there was a turning point in my second year. it was an episode in which a report was thoroughly refuted by the reality of my experiences. i think back on what i heard then and what i know now whenever i feel the need and have the time for a prolonged chuckle.
so i've radically pruned and limited which sources i'm willing to hear from. i've become more discerning and also harder to reach.
it is wise to always remember that folks say what they feel is in their interests to say. sometimes their interests are in line with your own or with a sense of "community". sometimes their interests are narrowly confined to their own or a favorite's pocketbook. eventually one learns to suss out the differences.
there is no shortcut to replace adequate personal experience as a basis for judgement. knowledge can come through difficulty and pain. and if it doesn't... well, there is always Darwin. LOL!
will take what other providers report as gospel, without any evidence. Hell - I've seen providers blacklist *their favorites* just to keep them to themselves. And give great references to guys who have threatened them, and smack ladies around.
Providers are in competition for business. The idea that it is a sorority is an illusion. Several smart ladies I know want nothing to do with other providers whom they do not personally know.... and place no value whatsoever on provider referrals.
i favor such smart ladies as companions. it also takes a smart lady to successfully handle a complicated eccentric such as yours truly. they also have superior business practices and manage the working relationship in a calm and drama free fashion....
Now that is the way to handle that situation Too many ladies will tell a guy if he's been blacklisted and cause a whole heap of trouble. Well done Sins.
Now that is the way to handle that situation Too many ladies will tell a guy if he's been blacklisted and cause a whole heap of trouble. Well done Sins.
And this is very well put! I have found that not only ladies but an owner of a very popular date-check site works with an owner of a very popular "dating" service. My personal information, I'm a provider, was told by the owner of one site to the other. I was told by the "dating" service that I could not post any information regarding bad clients unless I reported it to them first and then I was allowed. So I tried to post anonymously after finding out that the problems I had issues with kept telling me they weren't really problems. The owner from a "blacklist" site then told the other owner what I posted and who I was.
What it comes down to is nothing is safe or private in this hobby no matter how much anyone claims that they are trying to protect you with their website, period. You have to take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt and make your own decisions because the minute you think you are safe and someone gets pissed at you all your personal information will be posted everywhere and this includes "international" dating services!!
there are no guarantees. there is no substitute for discernment and care.
occasionally there is a situation that is black/white. (who would want a client with a rap sheet including violence against women? who would want a provider with unmistakably criminal business practices, like trafficking?)
but aside from those sorts of things it is a matter of taste, intelligence, discernment and careful risk management.
As Sins correctly pointed out, someone who is nice with you now could be a dick with someone else, or with you later. Be nice to set them up...
Gee, wouldn't we all collectively drop our jaws if a well reviewed lady on here was found to be involved in some very nasty business? I know that nobody here would EVER be duplicitous!
The other side... I had a psycho (no longer here) trying to dig up personal info on me by suggesting I was trying to arrange a session. Fortunately for me a lovely lady said something to me.
Every situation is different and there are no good, hard and fast answers. I think it also depends on the type of blacklist (personal versus national blacklist website). If you know the lady, ask her straight out, but be ready to give her some credibility too.
As Sins correctly pointed out, someone who is nice with you now could be a dick with someone else, or with you later. Be nice to set them up...
Gee, wouldn't we all collectively drop our jaws if a well reviewed lady on here was found to be involved in some very nasty business? I know that nobody here would EVER be duplicitous!
The other side... I had a psycho (no longer here) trying to dig up personal info on me by suggesting I was trying to arrange a session. Fortunately for me a lovely lady said something to me.
Every situation is different and there are no good, hard and fast answers. I think it also depends on the type of blacklist (personal versus national blacklist website). If you know the lady, ask her straight out, but be ready to give her some credibility too.
There is a lady who was very well reviewed on this site until she became too old got in trouble with the IRS and moved to Canada to start an international "dating" business, and is involved in some very nasty business. I was told that my phone conversations were recorded and that she has kept everyone of my emails which she twists around everytime she has called me to yell at me! She thinks that she can treat people however she choses or she bans them from her site for not kissing her feet.
What I found is that if she is doing this to me, what is to prevent her from doing this to the gentlemen who belong to her site. She assures them that she is discrete and does not retain any personal information on them, but again if she does it to providers who knows what information she is keeping "just in case."
If she were a civilian, the story might be one worth getting involved with. In this case, who he says and what he does when you are not there is between her and him. Perception rules. If she felt wronged or in danger enough to "out" the guy, its his to deal with not yours. I hate to say this, but you might get into something that could put you in harms way. Why risk your rep. for a john? NIce is great, but unless he's someone you have more than an ATM stake in, why would you tread in someone else's business.
IMO I would tell him since he is your friend and friends look out for each other. But I would stop short on confronting the woman or getting involved. I would let him take it from there.
before doing anything know the facts. Is she guilty or is someone else trying to fix her wagon so to speak. Your right about slander and our good name in the community is very important.
IF you are to do anything ask the provider first what the story is. She may know nothing about what you are talking about or someone else is spreading these rumors. Don't put yourself in a position of being the bad guy.
If your not happy with your findings do what any good friend would do.
I know you are care about him. but,, it is between the gentleman and the other lady...
I almost got myself into a similar situation and had to do some serious thinking on it.
I had a friend in the business who was/is scamming two of my clients... I started to get in it. but,, really.... it all goes back to he said she said... They are all adults....
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