I have a provider friend, we have been extremely close friends outside of business for years. Claims I mean a lot to her, and I believe it. BUT, this is something that drives me nuts.  She never cuts me a break in price, and gets touchy if I even bring it up. Feels like I am being taken for a ride. Because I help with a lot of things no charge.  Now business is business but this situation I feel like my time is worth something too, but I offered free as friends should do for friends. But her time is gold to her and will not reciprocate. Have spoken to a few ladies and everyone of them agree with me. I feel like my good nature is being taken advantage of. And they think the same. What are your thoughts. Keep in mind this is way beyond a customer client relationship.  Oh alias is up for a good reason too.

then you won't need hers

I am a consultant and none of my clients ever ask me to cut them a break.  Even if we do become friendly.  That's business.

This business is no different.

If you want a discount then ask her to be your girlfriend or wife and stop paying altogether.  Otherwise, you pay her price, or stop seeing her.

At the very least she should offer you the discounted rate I presume she gives to regulars, and even then she should offer you a bit off of that for someone 'special', or however you want to phrase it.

What is a reasonable solution to you? Rate? What is win-win to both of you? Doesn't sound like she is even open to discussion, and that's the first step, so don't know what to tell ya.

Maybe, like FreedomRider, she needs to be 'without you' for awhile, and then she may be more open to discussion! after all, Handy Men are hard to find, and very expen$ive!

Here in SD, you really need incall. The guys are just not likely to spring for the room and the fee - so you do best with incall. That's not possible for me yet, but they don't even attempt to find a workable solution! They'd be amazed if they gave it a shot.
Yeah, I know, we've scared the guys to death at the thought of negotiating, but this isn't negotiating, it's working towards a solution. I'd like to see more guys ask ladies 'what if' I saw you once a week? Or three times a month, etc. then they'd see the rates drop, and how it could benefit both.

We often look at negotiation as a win-lose situation. As a result we all tend to bargain on the basis of position and not interests. Maybe should try approaching the situation from the standpoint of both your interests. Ask yourself what you hope to get out of this relationship (yes, it is a business). Then approach the discussion from your desired outcome and express why it is the outcome you desire. Try to elicit what your provider friend's outcome is. At worst, you may conclude that there is no overlap, in which case negotiation always fails. At best, the two of you may be able to reach an accommodation that satisfies both your interests.

Just for the sake of clarification .... what do you do for her free of charge?   Can you give us a few concrete examples?

If you're fixing her car, painting her house, getting the dead rats out of her toilet .... it's different than picking up the check at Denny's.

Specifics, please?

I tried to make that kind of proposal to a provider for a weekly 4 hour dinner date. I really like her and she "seems" to like me. We have a 1 month, twice a week beginning relationship at this time.

At first she told me a it was going to be her 1 hour rate times 4.  IOW, no discount. I gave a lower figure and she came down a little. The differnce was one benjie. So I said, "Let's split the differnce" and she still wouldn't come down. Then said she would call back later if she changed her mind.

Well the upshot was when she called back, she had gone BACK up to the original 4x price instead of the slightly lower bargained for price. I assume she had talked to someone who convinced her to stick with the original offer. She is outcall only and uses a "driver".

This sort of enfuriated me. It's not like upselling, but it certainly isn't good business and I suspect her "driver" is in control of her or something. I can't seem to make it clear to her that a regular guranteeing a certain amount every month is MORE than being a regular with not a known income every month.

She told me one time she has 15 regulars.  Is that realistic?

I mean, if I was providing, it would seem to be much less stress and more safety to have a regular once a week and make slightly less than have to see four 1 hour sessions.

TET

Right. If what you do for her really has value why not just say fine I'll help you out for credit and barter. You dont have to stop seeing her if she refuses,just cut back on your freebie helps.If she is savvy she will see that what you do has value to her also. I doubt that you will command the same hourly rate she is able to get.

she needs to pay a driver, so she'd have the increase be that much.

...S.S.L., I doubt if whatever your doing for her approaches the same hourly rate as she commands (unless you're a cardiac surgeon or a Mercedes Benz mechanic).
  If you enjoy the lady's company that much, continue to pay the rate she asks. However, when she calls on you for your expertise, you have two options. Option 1: "I'm sorry, I'm busy."
Option 2: "This is what I do for a living, my rate for this job is..."
  Expect hard feelings or expect to romance the girl. Good luck.

and i will do with it what i please. yes i would take a regular and give a discount any day but regular means more then once a yr..lol..how about this one. i saw you a yr ago and your rates was this now you have gone up 50.00 but can i have it for what i paid a year ago..  give me a break..my rates are not high any way

I have seen a regular in Calgary for some time now. We go out twice a month for dinner dates and then some fun. Now I think dinner dates are just as important for both party's for personal reason's. I usually ask for half of the regular price for each hour. Sometimes this was also too much as well. I also went to vacation spots with him, with $$$$. on the lower end of course. What I'm trying to get at, if the feelings are mutual, more than likely she will cut a break. However if she is only in for the money, The price will remain the same. Hope that helps!!

I think she's already shown that her time is important and your help to her is just regarded as a gift.  Business trades are done everywhere, if you saved her considerable time, money, or both, she should  make an attempt to reciprocate.  If she doesn't feel that's fair, just don't help her anymore.

I agree with Sedona. She must learn to compromise. Otherwise, don't make yourself so readily available for personal (free) time for her. Maybe that's a good test to see if she really values your friendship, outside the borders, if you know what I mean?

Hugs,
Ciara

We have been close friends years before whe was a provider, thats the problem.

If I gave specifics , she would know who I am. And her privacy is omportant

My value is TECH expertise. And general handyman stuff too. All personal stuff for her

Business is business, friendship is friendship.  When the two become mixed problems result regardless of area.  Either you get a freebie, a discount or none at all.  You should neither be upset nor surprised at getting the latter.  Everone has the freedom to make a living...

In this situation, there are quite a bit of unknown factors that might explain, if not justify the accused lady's behavior.

First, remember that being a provider allows access to relativelly easy money. Personally, I only do this as a sideline and I have a day job that pays my bills, but when I know that one week-end on tour will bring me as much as two weeks worth of my normal pay, the tentation to become overly obsessed with money lurks.

Then again, it also depends on what kind of exterior pressure the lady might be under for her money. The level of luxury and expenses some provider live by is almost unsustainable unless you become a real money machine. And in that case, you are almost brain-washed that your time is money to justify yourself with making so much easy money on the back of people.

Again, this is not my case. As I said, my bills are getting paid for already by my day job, so my motivation for being a provider is not as rigid and it allows me to follow my preferences when accepting dates, as well as better accomodating regulars.

What I suspect is that the lady in question probably doesn't have that flexibility in deciding who she grants her time to. The pressures could be as simple as over whelming debts, someone controlling her income or just an excessive life style, but she may simply not even realise that her time and yours should be valued the same when you are spending time as friends.

My opinion is that her perception of human relathionships may be altered, therefore there is no such thing as a friendly relathionship, it is all a question of getting benefits, if not financially then those services you are mentionning.

I welcome your comments...

I have taken providers out to dinner , movies , shows etc with no charge by them , BUT business is business . I got no problem with that

I agree with you 100%.  I had such an experience last year.  We truly enjoyed each other and I had a reduced rate.  She controlled how much time off the clock we had at dinner afterwards.  Sometimes it was 4 hours off the clock if we were having a good time at dinner.  I was the only hobbyist that she ever introduced to her mother during her many years in the business. She was in her early 40's.  Things were great until she told me that she loved me and then she realized that she had to break it off.

Lesson learned:  She was my first experience with a provider.  You do not fall in love with your provider - just have a great time and enjoy each other.  Yes, it is about money, paying bills and saving for goals.  I also tried a monthly plan twice and it was NO - do not want to feel obligated if I am not in the mode.  I do not want to feel corralled.

Yes, we still care about each other, but we have not been together since Aug.  Just occasionally e-mails.

I think a token discount for being a regular is a cool thing for a provider to do. But as others said, this is business and nice gestures can easily give way to business. It's up for you to decide if you think she's on the level with you or if she's just stringing you along for your money.

Now if you are doing things for her outside the lines of the hobby, this is where you should look closely at whats going on. Your time is money just like hers is and if you are doing her favors and she's refusing to do anything for you, then you are being taken advantage of .

Rather than ask for a straight discount you should try to barter your services. If you do a project for her, ask for extra time during an appointment, or have dinner prior off the clock prior to an appt.  She sounds like cash is king to her so I'd hesitate to ask for free appts.

Well Iike I said we were real close for years before this business came into the relationship, not vice versa. I did not fall in love with a provider, a woman I fell in love with later became a provider. Big Difference. Huge difference in fact. Now she views all physical time in the sense of dollars and because of that I find it highly disturbing.  I offered my help numerous times in the spirit of friendship which it was. Yet she has yet to reciprocate. And some of the help I offered took me days of my time for her. not minutes or hours. She is knocking down far more than I am now. And the change in her since this carreer started has be very disturbing. Problem is if I didn't care so much about her I would turn and walk away. Something I probibly should do giving how selfish she has become. But our friendship outside of the business has been so deep for years I can't just do that. So catch 22. Walk away and it kills me, stay and its going to kill me. And hey yes I do know what you mean about falling for a provider. A great one can be easy to fall for. And you forget it was jsut business.  But I met her outside the industry, fell for her outside the industry, we had a long relationship outside the industry, then the industry becomes part of her life for cash reasons. And it all changes. For the worse.

Well given the amount of help I have given freely as a friend, and the going rates for just some of it, I would be owed more free visits than I have actually had. On a dollar for dollar basis.

But clearly its not a customer client relationship that got out of hand, its a close relationship that the business interupted and all of a sudden changed for the worse. That being I still was expected to do the same stuf friends do for free on my end, but on hers it all became about money.  Hardly fair and hardly equal.

But as a friend I never expected her to pay. But no more. If I pay she pays. But she is likely just to find another guy to get free work and advice from before he gets wise to it.

Well like I said, I have seen other providers and I do understand business is business. Because I saw them knowing it was business.

This case started, developed, and existed outside of the business. Before she brought the business into it.  Totally different situations. But I do understand your point.

Well I have asked a number of providers locally (over 12), who were appalled she did that. None of which were on my time so to say. So there was no financial interest to pander to me. Every one was upset that a long time close friend would do that, abd a few offered me steep discounts if I would be that kid of friend to them. All of them told me to walk away from her if thats all my friendship after years of being with her was worth. And what I am talking about is not just provider/client relationship, but Best friend/confidant type of relationship outside of the business which was far more extensive. Oh, and nobody, but nobody knows or will know of whom I talk.

It seems like your doing this stuff for her and EXPECTING something in return. That's not how it works, or at least it shouldn't IMHO. Either you do it because you want to, without any expectations, or you don't. As my grandfather used to tell me "The gift is in the giving". If you feel like she's using you then stop helping her out. I've got friends that I've stopped doing stuff for because of this and told them why I've stopped, they're still friends, but they no longer ask me for "favors".

Just my opinion

Seldom

Well, point of this is and sorry if I can not be more specific, but I am shielding her identity. Is this, We were damn close friends, as close as they get before she got into this for financial reasons. We both used to do a lot of things for each other, loved each others company and never asked the other for money. Now its become very one sided. And yet she still claims to be a friend. Which I believe is in her heart but she is driving a wedge between us. I mean no discounts at all, much less any freebies.  Like I said few local women I asked descretely without revealing anything say I am right. And they do far more for people with far less of a relationship with them. And all of them said they would never even ask for a dime from someone that shared the relationship we have. Or had anyway. She is still a dear friend but this has been bothing both of us terribly. But for different reasons.

Well we have been seriously close, enough to get in trouble by either spouse, for many more years than she has been in business.  Only now she expects cash for what was done out of love before.  See thats the difference, if I had met her as a provider, then yes you have a point. But we were this close before she was a provider, now she expects money for friendship. Totally different situation here. And I see this business taking a serious toll on her, mentally, and  physically, and even more emotionally.  Example she gets upset at the drop of a hat, when she used to be chearful. Etc.  Some providers handle this well, but she isn't, and it shows. So I sit here and watch her spiral down, or I speak up and she screams at me.  Either way my hands are tied.

No, theres no driver, nor is there anyone to asnswer to. She has the freedom do do what she wishes, and that makes it far worse in my eyes. Because if she meant what I have heard for the last buch of years I wouldn't have this post up right now. And I haven't been a hobbyist for more than a year. And I knew her far longer.

I think its that she doesn't see the fact that others time has value.

Hmmm, then let me ask you this, were you sleeping with her before she began doing this and were you, as it sounds, helping her out financialy?  

But my previous post still holds. As a example, about 11 years ago I met this girl and we fell in love with each other, after 41/2 years we went our seperate ways and didn't/don't keep in touch. She went off to college, as an older student, but her parents were in the bottom 1/3 of the economic scale, so couldn't help her very much if at all. I was still great friends with her mom so heard how hard a time she was having making ends meet. At the same time I was working during the day and going to school at night so $$ was a little tight but I still loved this girl and even though I never expected us to get it together again started giving her, through her mom and a MAJOR promise not to say where it came from, 400 a month. She graduated and I never heard anything from her so I don't know if she thought the $$ was from me or not but it didn't/doesn't really matter. I helped her out because it was what I wanted to do. You should do things because you want to not for any ulterior motive. You do it because that's who you are or don't do them at all.

So if it bothers so much you should stop doing them and keep your friendship. I'd also stop using her services but that's just me.

BTW, I've NEVER told ANYONE about this, so whoever reads this please keep it to yourselves : ^)

Seldom

Above all you need to remember there was a loving relationship before the provider business came into it. Not after.

I think you are very close to the mark. The business has affected her perception of love and relationships. I mean I have no doubts about her feelings for me being positive. There was love there long before escorting came into it.

Well , I tried talking to her, but she gets upset so I needed to get through this issue for my own peace of mind. I love her to death, and want the best for her. And hope she isn't upset if she happens to read this.

Yes, I know what you are going through.  I deeply cared for a fine woman for over 10 years.  We met at work and we had lots in common.  We both were consultants for a major software company.  I helped her build her own home.  I spent many days working on her house and landscaping.  We talked on the phone almost every night that we were out of town.   We took long bike rides together.  We went swimming together and many other activates.  She wanted me to go shopping with her several times a year when she bought cloths.  She told me the first time we met:  “I’ll hurt you if we ever get married”.  You need to understand that I need to go out and spend time with my own friends.  We had lots of very close contact, but we never had sex because I was a married man.  She said that I cannot be faithful to you, but I will demand that you be faithful to me.  I loaned her $5,000 to help buy inventory for her day spa that she was opening with the understanding that I would ask her to marry me 3 times.  The money would be a gift if I failed to live up to my part.  She did not live up to her part.  We ended our deep caring friendship in 95 by me saying:  I guess I care more about you than you are able to care about me.”  She is still single.  She did pay back the loan over several years.  Do I still care about her?  Yes.  Would I still marry her?  Probably yes.  Would I like to see her again – Yes.  I have not seen her since 97 and we now live over 2,000 miles apart.  My better judgment tells me to move on with my life.  I am moving on with my life.

I have studied the relationship many times between men and women.  I believe that most women have a much easier time of breaking away from the relationship than the man.  We men just can’t seem to let go.