Am I senile or has TER changed the info given out to us non-VIP members in the reviews. It now says "VIP Only" on attitude, performance, and atmosphere. Is this simply to encourage VIP membership or is there something else?
My hunch is that you are correct. It is intended to encourage VIP membership. Since a model's photographs are available through her link and guys can see what she looks like the appearance score is not all that meaningful. The performance score of course is another matter. I've been whining for years that the numbers where just a tease to tempt guys into VIP. I guess I will have to stop now...
Unique change. You must be VIP to see performance numbers. This most certainly raise the numbers of people - gals and guys alike to be able to see those numbers.
I as a provider look at a gal's numbers when she is given as a reference in order to see if she is a reputable and reliable source. But now I have to be a VIP to see them. So even though they give us gals "limited VIP" it will no longer be enough to check to make sure gal is reputable.
If TER wants to become more restrictive to encourage VIP that's fine--
But they should also quit this business of free VIP days in exchange for review writing.
To my Dear Madam Moore:
Although you have reasons for having that opinion and in a lot of ways it is justified it is a good idea for the genuine hobbyist. I concur with TER because this is a venue where we share,analyze and determine whether or not someone is worthy of being seen. Whether that be the hobbyist or the client. Because we don't necessarily have regional hobbyist societies and periodicals where we can verify what transpired between the myriad of parties that convene with each other, hobbyist and providers are almost relegated to verifying the validity of the statements that are inclusive in the review. Although you may be more industrious than others,most woman may just go on the review although I am sure that you cross reference that with emails and phone calls to participants in your professional society before determining if the hobbyist is a solid candidate to be engaged with further. With respect to economics and the no charge piece TER knows and thoroughly comprehends the fact that there is competition and if other sites are doing it then why not them. It gives the hobbyist to look at the site and see if the resources they have for convening with those who work in your professional discipline would be compatible with them as well as the forums where we discuss and exchange ideas on various subjects that effect the trade. I understand that you will have to weed out some potentially undesirable suitors but there might be some good guys who might be extremely interested in seeing you and might not know all of the boards that you are on. I know that you may be incensed with that fact of TER,but there are a lot of good well meaning hobbyist out there. Thank you for your time Madam Moore.
Your post gave me a headache, but I digress.
I agree with Ally that free VIP days in exchange for reviews is a net sum negative, and not to sound like a TER shill, but I don't see a thing wrong with limiting access to non VIP members. If a guy can't cough up twenty bucks to check out the providers he sees than he either shouldn't be hobbying or he shouldn't be bitching when he ends up dissappointed.
If you can prove it you phone number or Email or real name being used. It just like a cread report.
My mother once said "don't use words that you can't spell".
It's not applicable here but I'm thinking something along the lines of it.
I'm pissed. We support and encourage the site because it helps us - period. Having those numbers travel with us is the benefit of the site for a provider and you have taken that away from a huge portion of our customer pool - the lurker. And now it will be more fake reviews and problem reports and whatever else. So less benefit and more doo doo for providers, "yay" --that's sarcasm BTW.
this new change will only makes the appearance score more important.... to everyone.
bad move, IMHO
...days but they are only saving $7.50 for their review (based on yearly fee of $180.00). That's probably less than minimum wage based on the time it takes to write a review.
Other guys do it to brag about how studly they are but only a small cadre of people will ever know who they really are so what's the point?
A majority(?) of hobbyists write reviews to inform their brother hobbyists of which providers are good and which are not so good.
And then there are those, like me, who don't write reviews at all.
I initially wrote my review with one of the goals as getting the free days that go with it. After that, I purchased a subscription because I found value in the resource. The other reason was to help the lady out, but that was me. But the main reason was to get the free days and check out the system.
You are right though, as much time as it ended up taking to write the review after the multiple revisions they made me do, I would have been better off to buy a month to try it out.
Though its true that the 180 a year is a small price to pay for all the info ter gives you most don't see the value until they are submerged into the hobbyist culture.
What this change does is make appearance the important score.. to everyone- are there not enough issues/politics/trouble/drama connected to appearance scores already? its only going to get worse. hold onto your hats its going to be a bumpy ride
Yep- I have only seen a dozen or so clients out of the 35 Ive seen this year who are TER members.
encourages fake reviews.
I am never sure of the writers motivation. Hopefully some day they'll stop doing it.
That would be a bad move, and TER knows this.
The review process can be tedious and time consuming. Getting VIP days for writing reviews is a good incentive.
Look how many time there have been complaints about reviews being rejected, and the review process itself. Without the incentive, the review numbers would certainly decline.
The foundation of this site is reviews, not ads, not forums, but reviews.
For the many providers who have complained about not getting enough reviews, would have even more to complain about. The low volume and newer providers would be the most effected. Think about it.
You are correct about one thing, the appearance scores will be looked at more closely by non VIP members.
Performance is the more important score of the two and most guys seem to share this opinion from what I've read on the boards. It can also alert you to rip offs.
Unless you're going to make all info in reviews visible to VIPs only it makes sense to me to allow them to see the most basic stuff and miss out on the interesting details. I mean, if you're buying a online they entice you with a synopsis of what the book's about, not just a picture of the cover (even with a high-end art book, where the visuals might be an important component).
Much as I love TER, this strike me as the latest in a series of strange management decisions.
-- Modified on 9/5/2009 6:17:55 AM
Most guys want to stay under the radar. We want to be able to pay for a month/months without having to find the miniscule number of cards that will be accepted by TER's biller. It is a royal pain in the #$% to do a money order and wait for lousy international mail to MAYBE get it delivered.
Guy's goals are to find a hot lady when the urge strikes them. We should be able to then just get a generic Visa type card from the local store and sign-up for a quarter ot half a year. TER gets the $, we get the info. It is a mystery why I can use gift cards to sign up for all the main porn sites, but not here.
I agree with others that newer guys will go more on Appearance scores when they see that their anonymous sign-ups are difficult to do. And I agree that it will hurt the ladies going up the age scale more.
From a business model standpoint, it seems TER has given the opportunity for a competitor to make adjustments to their free offerings to attract people.
If sign-ups are made easier via billing, a drop in fake review would follow. And more revenue would come to TER than they will ever get by this change. And, if they couple it with the ability for guys to give updated reviews on meetings they have with a girl they have seen before, without losing the original review, and make ALL of that info only viewable via VIP, they have a good incentive to sign-up for VIP.
That is my biggest gripe about TER, the simple FACT that it's a royal pain in the ass to give them your fucking money. If they would come up with a way to make it easier, I'm sure that more people would be willing to part with a few hundred bucks. I sent a money order in once, and it took 8 fucking weeks and many, many "Contact Us" messages to finally get them to credit my account.
Some gift cards, or prepaid cards will not let you use them for internet purchases, while others will not let you use them for purchases outside of the US. Still others recognize when you attempt to use them for "Adult" purchases, and will not allow that. It sucks, and I'm sure something could be done to make it easier.
Lol, "give them your fucking money".
Our problem is that we don't want to give up THAT money, we want to use it wiser!
If nothing else, they should have a link to where people who come along can find tips from others who have been successful using payment methods without needing any personal info. Arrrgh. TER doesn't seem to get it that we don't have a problem paying, but the current process is deficient.
Try gift cards, they work!
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?BoardID=33&SortBy=DateCreated%20desc&Search=gift%20cards&SearchType=1&DayFrom=3000&DayTo=0&MessageID=55432&frmSearch=1
I would be very willing to cough up the money if it were easy.
Just like all the other sites - ITS ALL ABOUT THE $ MONEY $
I had VIP for a month , and found most of the reviews were contradicting , and bragging about their own sexual prowlness , or just down right false .
I find less and less reasons for using this site ,, if it was truely about the hobbiest experience , then it would be more open and honest
Unfortunately for me, since I don't submit reviews and I'm leery of the electronic paper trail on credit card payments for subscriptions. (Anyone know if the money order payment thing is reliable? Shipping off a money order to an int'l address always seemed sketchy to me.)
My guess is, with this change, you'll find that the people living in areas with reasonable competitor sites may start using TER less; I'm specifically thinking of the Houston area and a national board with a very active Houston-area user community.
Unfortunately, I live in the D.C. area and I don't think highly of the local competition to TER, so I guess I'm going to have to either rethink my "no reviews" practice or figure out a reliable, untraceable way to get my subscription fee to TER.
P.S. Anyone still read Heinlein out there? :P
The site itself would be more reputable by stopping the rash of fake reviews we have been seeing lately.While encouraging membership instead.
The basic info needs to be shown such as performance ratings to engourage the guys to see the ladies,rather than being like a game of russian roulette... you can do that without reviews on cl or bp every day of the week.
The ladies should have free VIP access because that is just one of the tools we use to verify the guys and ensure a lady who is asking for references for you is legit before we give them information about you.The site wouldnt exist if not for providers obviously.. so why not give us what we need to keep us here and bringing in money for TER?
It's just good business sense.
But that was funny.
If TER would rely on providers to bring in money, they would be broke and out of business within a year.
I fail to see how you would bring in money by giving free VIP to providers, and making all hobbyists pay without being rewarded by reviewing providers. Have you not figured out that the review numbers would drop under your scenario?
This is a hobbyist/reviewer's board, not a provider's board. The vast majority of funding comes from us, not providers. Without our reviews, your business would take a turn for the worse.
You guys come here to review and read the reviews of the ladies here.
Just since my first review way way waaaaaaaaay back when there have been about 100k provider profiles added to ter.. my number is 20120..lol
The guys come they pay TER profits.
The majority of my business doesn't come from ter but other venues as well,since i often travel in areas where TER is not the standard 
I agree the number of reviews will go up but that does not mean they will all be legitimate reviews.
I pay for VIP and don't mind that but my point is that its a tool that we use to help screen clients
we have limited VIP now,but there are things we cant do without vip like check review history to see how far back a gents reviews go.. ie 2001 hes been a member for 9 years...I believe (im sure someone will correct me if im wrong..lol) that
you have to be full VIP to check whitelistings as well.
I've always been surprised they let non-VIP's see that stuff in the first place. It could just be an experiment too. Nothing says they can't change it back if it doesn't have the desired effect.
I suppose a non-VIP can still ask about a provider he's interested in seeing on her local board. VIP's will chime in about the strength of her reviews.
I'm glad to see that someone understands the "drug dealer on the playground" approach to marketing.
If you get nothing for free, you don't know what you're missing. If you get plenty, there's no need to pay. There's a sweet spot in the middle that makes money for the people running the site.
I've always believed in someone making money for a service. Otherwise, they go away, and I lose access to the service. Seems pretty fuckin obvious to be. Sounds like it does to you too.
-However, when you combine that approach with the fact that VIP is given away for free in exchange for writing reviews?
Its a recipe for polluting the already polluted database with MORE fake reviews - reviews that providers have to actively play tug-of-war to remove on a monthly if not weekly basis.
Its not just irritating for the provider, it corrupts the system and sets clients up too.
This move encourages those who refuse to pay for the service to continue doing their dirt- passing fake accounts of meeting providers off as real.
I am not so sure I can agree to that, Ally.
Reality is that there are fake reviews, and guys doing them for free VIP. That is without question.
I don't think the new policy is going to increase them. If, and I say if it does, would also increase the number of legit reviews? By percentage, there should be no change.
Do you also believe the providers who post self reviews will increase? How about the providers who goad their "friends" into writing them?
TER seems to be slacking off the first time reviewer/provider policy which prevented some of the fake reviews. I have been seeing them more lately.
"Well I didn't read the reviews because I'm not a member but I saw your numbers"
...Why not just block out all of the numbers?
Its really not fair that a provider who is a routine 6/9, 6/10 get shafted on a knee-jerk reaction because some yokel who doesn't want to EVER pay for VIP saw half of her score, the appearance half, and passed onto the next.
I think that when TER is making its little decisions they should bear in mind that it forced its way into the business of providers, making it an industry standard and monopoly.
Providers rely upon the review system more than ever- each decision that TER makes affects hundreds of thousands of livelihoods in addition to the clients who rely upon it for their fun/discretionary dollars.
All of these changes- visibility through advertising, partnerships with escort malls, Twittering/social networks, tweaks-
Every business must grow and adapt...
But if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The KISS principle is in effect: keep it simple, stupid.
Block out the entire score.
That very thing had occurred to me also. Providers with stellar performance scores and mediocre appearance scores will get hurt by this. I'm all for blocking the appearance scores too, but I think they'll still get hurt. They simply will not be "discovered" by non-VIP's using the search feature where they would have in the past. A sad, but unintended consequence.
If I compared your profile (not signed in) with the VIP equivalent, I'd be MORE likely to call without the additional info. It's not that your performance scores are bad. Indeed, they are quite good. Still, there are other profile items that cause me to cross you off the list.
In other words, it's a crap shoot. If the people with the investment want to make changes, you can nod, or you can move on. Personally, I don't see a point in complaining about it.
...But some of us do and your opinion doesn't nullify our experience or complaints.
TER benefits providers - but don't forget, TER is making money off of OUR asses.
As I said above TER forced its way into provider business, making itself a monopoly and an industry standard.
I appreciate that it is as inclusive as it is towards provider participation, input and modification but I never forget the fact that TER assigns a fiscal value to each profile nor do I forget how many instances of clients telling me over the past three years that they paid for VIP specifically to read my reviews.
Wow, if that's the case, I wouldn't want to fuck with them.
I see it more as a mutual benefit scenario. The bigger they get, the more exposure to potential clients you get by being here. The more exposure they give you, the more people are willing to pay for the information received.
Should they not make money from provider success? Escort malls sure do...
No, wouldn't want to fuck with former TER - but with the passing of the old administration expressing dissent is a lot less likely to incur the wrath of the Ho-Gestapo. Our opinions are encouraged by the new administration.
...And as far as mutual benefit goes, I can't help that I am not excited by the prospect of exponential growth. I don't see additional exposure as the possibility for growth of my own business-
I just remember the recent demise of Craigslist. Now say what you will about the "elements" present there - no one can deny that the blatant promotion of prostitution and the lackadaisical attitude towards those in opposition of that promotion expedited the death of Craigslist.
Lets not forget that TER operates in the gray area of legality. Until what is promoted here is legalized I really have no interest in seeing TER on Twitter or hearing its advertisements on the Howard Stern program on the radio- and being that I am only one woman (with an already thriving business) I really don't care about the opportunity cost of TER not attempting to mainstream itself elsewhere.
I have no issues with TER making money from provider success - I sure as hell have made money from TER success. However, TER must act responsibly with consideration to those who allow their service to be detailed here in the benefit of its database.
As I said above, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Anything less (or more) is a step towards self-destruction.
TER walks a very fine line when modifying the formula and on either side of that line is greater success or implosion, buckling under its own weight (SEE escort mall Eros which just reduced its rates after a year of getting too big for its britches with expansion and alienation of its core, the providers who support it & the clients who view it with poor customer service, unverified bait & switch, etc.).
Ally,
You bring up a salient point that TER has positioned itself as the premier national review board. And like it or not, its influence on this lifestyle is significant. It has a responsibility to ensure that the information provided has integrity. And that it is fair for both the hobbyist and the provider.
I think management is trying a few new things to encourage certain behaviors such as more VIP subscriptions. I understand the providers’ concern that as a marketing tool TER is reducing its value as the casual lurker will not be able to see key information, e.g. the “6/9” lady will suffer.
A reasonable compromise would be to keep the performance rating as VIP, but add a new box: “Recommend: Yes or No” and let that be visible to all. It’s based on the old Pass/Fail philosophy from academia. For the provider, the presence of a visible “Recommend: Yes” rating mitigates any harm of a hidden performance rating. For the lurker, the Yes/No rating should give him just enough info to make a decision. This may help alleviate the need some may feel to write false reviews in oder to gain VIP access.
VIPs would be able to see that a Yes recommendation comes with a 6, 7, 9 or maybe even a 5.
Well, this is just my suggestion.
I seen where a provider could look up guys numbers to see if the were harmers big Tippers, and other good details. Of course it also cost money but would be worthwhile to stay safe. It would depend on provides review guys.
30-45 minutes to write a review. The reviewer needs to enter all the profile data before composing the verbiage. A trade-off of some free VIP days is a small token for my time and effort to write the review. Without "something", why should I take my time and efforts to write a review?
Site has lost 50% of its utility W/O performance ratings. Need to look elsewhere for data needed to make good decisions on spending limited resources.
are you really losing anything of value?
It amazes me how cheap some guys really are. It's a lousy twenty fucking bucks for chrissakes, anyone who expects to get all the information available here on TER and isn't willing to fork out a lousy twenty bucks should stick to BackPage and CL.
I don't mind paying for VIP, back in the distant past When I was able to simply send a money order to a location inside of the country I was VIP. But now it is difficult to pay without leaving any "paper trail". I would suggest that TER make arrangements with some processing company in the states to receive money orders, process and forward the funds to them. Then they get their $ and we stay invisible.
...the providers with super high appearance scores, but really low performance scores. Rip-off providers are a prime example of this. There are a lot of hot ones out there. Some less seasoned hobbyists will see their really high appearance scores and go for it, not knowing that they have 1's and 2's for performance. Argh!