For some reason, this topic comes up about once a fortnight on this board (actually I know why it comes up but that's another story).  I don't want to be jaded but I just can't believe that a provider and a client are going to be able to develop a dating or more serious relationship if they met in the hobby.  So can providers tell me--are you aware of ANY of your sisters in the hobby who have met and subsequently had a long-term non-hobby relationship, even marriage, with a client?  If the occurrence of this is more than 1/10,000 I'll eat my hat (first I'll have to buy one).  Many of us have wished this could happen--I still occasionally pine for my long gone ATF-- but I also sometimes wish I could fly.  Neither is going to happen.  But, I'm willing to be proven wrong.

I know that some of you will ignore this, others will think about it, but in the long run nothing will change, but I'm going to say it anyway.

This has become a lot more serious than I thought. It seems to me that we spend an inordinate amount of time talking about Providers and relationships. It has finally hit me that a lot of guys on this board are using Providers to find a relationship. What makes this even more confusing is the fact that there are so many other resources to use to find a decent relationship.

As a gentlemen who is pushing 60, I had to go out to bars and discos to meet women. You young men today can sit at home on your computers and do the same thing.

Regardless of whom you with, relationships required work, very hard work. You have to be flexible, strong, weak, sensitive, understanding, macho, a jerk, a lover, a father, a friend and incredibly secure in who you are as a man and a person. And you have to know when and how to be all of these things.

If you think for one moment that Providers are any different from civvie women, you are sadly mistaken. They still have the same emotional, spirtual, and intellectual needs as civvie women. And yes they want financial security just as most people do. Please keep in mind that they were once civvies before they became Providers. That then speaks to my next subject which is the fact that civvie women can be just as good in bed as a Provider, if her needs are meant.

As a man who was married for 29 years to an intellectual nympho who was 8 years my senior I know this to be true. I didn't even know that Providers existed until after my wife passed away. If you are using this hobby to find a relationship, good luck, but I think that there are other resources which might provide you with what you really need.

For the most part women know that all they really have to do is appeal to us sexually. We can all give lip service to her intellectual prowess, but she knows how to get what she wants and very few man are immuned. Sex and money are the two most powerful elements in our world society.

So here's the bottom line, at the present time I could be in several wonderful relationships, if that was what I really wanted. However, I just don't have the energy to do everything it takes to make a relationship work, therefore, I see Providers on occasion to get my physical needs met. So if an old geezer like me can be in a relationship I'm sure that 95% of you guys could also be in one if you wanted to put forth the effort. If you don't, then continue to see Providers but don't expect them to fall in love with you. They know better, and they have there own needs to satisfy.

If you are under the illusion that they do not have SO's, you are sadly mistaken. Take an honest look at yourself, decide what it is you want and then take the appropriate steps. If you think that there is a relationship to be found in this game, you will certainly pay a lot to find out, both emotionally and spirtually and (financially speaks for itself).

There's no free lunch gentlemen, you pay one way or the other, much as most women do, however, in the final analysis they pay a much higher price, dealing with us men.

I know that a lot of you gentlemen really care about some of the ladies that you see ( So do I), but try, really try to keep it in perpective. After all they get paid to make the fantasy and the illusion real, if you think it's any thing more than that give it a few years and I'm sure you'll see the light.

I personally know of two providers in the Seattle area who have 'fallen in love' with clients and had it blow up in their faces.  One of them married the guy after dating him for a year and then he became bad. Very bad. They divorced and that seemed to have made it worse. They had made big financial committments together and he decided not to keep up his end of the deal. He has turned into 'uber-stalker' and has devastated her life and that of her family. (She has kids.) I only know one side of the story (hers) but know that she gave her heart to someone who didn't deserve it and has really lost because of it.

I. myself, fell for this wonderful lady after seeing her for over three years and maintaining a proper provider/client relationship. Due to many misunderstandings, I no longer see her but have managed to work it out so we are no longer angry with each other.  There is no way I can ever see her again and I wish I could go back to the days when it was just she and I for an hour at a time but that is impossible.

Whomever said that provider/client relationships are 'without strings' is full of shit.

flopster.

Almost in full agreement and very well stated.As for me a 50yr old who still unfornately remembers the good old days of disco clubs.And who was in a 12yr relationship with a very intelligent
sexy lady  7yrs my senior till 2years ago. I have spent years web-dating,but still find the need for specific ladies of this hobby,and very much enjoying there company.

Sure it happens, but somehow it feels like putting the cart before the horse. Think about it, in the usual relationship, a man and woman meet, get to know each other and maybe wind up in bed. With a provider, that is where it starts!  My ATF went off to Cancun for a week with a client and wound up married to him. Met a working girl in a NV brothel that claimed she was married to a Chicago vice cop. He busted her doing escort, then married her. Go figure!
Flyrod

I know one provider who has had dated a couple and the relationships have ended after a while.  But isn't that true with most relationships?  Don't most people date lots of different people before settling down with one person?

I also know a different provider who fell for a client, they've been together about two years and appear to be very happy.

I don't imagine it happens very often because I think very few men could handle having a girlfriend who has sex with other men for a living.

-- Modified on 9/15/2004 6:08:44 AM

Good analysis but I disagree.  I think very few, if any, guys enter the hobby to find a relationship.  However, the hobby can be addictive and with the emphasis on GFE (and the "personalization" of the hobby) is it any wonder that fantasy and reality become blurred.  In my opinion, the interest in having a "real" relationship with a provider is a logical outgrowth of GFE and the fact that several providers are simply great gf material.

They say that suspension of disbelief is what allows us to connect when we see a play or movie or follow a TV series.  We are choosing (perhaps subconsciously) to forget reality and get lost in the charade. The better the story the deeper it can suck you in.

We're kind of primed for this illusion of finding a "hooker with a heart of gold". Isn't that how the story goes? Isn't she supposed to save us from something? Or aren't we supposed to save her from this dirty deed?

Some of the girls we meet here are very good at their job. The play the parts perfectly.  You might call them actresses but that ignores everything else they do. They are the producer, the writer, the choreographer, the special effects producer, etc...

Thanks for your dose of reality. Some of us need it more often than others. I usually get mine on the plane back home but maybe if I lived in the same town as some of my favorite vixens I'd have to read your post more often!!

Just a few thoughts on the matter……….
Most of these relationships are contingent on her giving up providing. Many of the men we encounter seem to think that we are doing this out of necessity, out of lack of education or other abilities, put plainly they want to SAVE us. Honestly, that is true in some cases but most of the providers I know are not here because they feel this is where their personal worth lies.

I have seen a few of these relationships where she continues providing and he continues hobbling, I have not seen any of theses last very long. But that leads us to it is better to have loved and lost or to have never loved at all? Life is a learning process and I personally have enjoyed every moment of mine. Another rather sad fact is growth seems to come out of pain… (take that for what you will)

Some of the issues a provider/hobbyist relationship would have to overcome.
1. Sexual addiction, providers get lots of “it” and hobbyists know how easy it is to get when they don’t get there way. Providers get an enormous amount of attention and ego feeding via there “job” and little else in life can compete with that.
2. For men who think they can “deal with what she does, they are generally wrong, on several levels, we are demanding, spoiled and very independent women further more few humans are completely immune to the green eyed monster.
3. Fidelity issues run deep in these relationships.
4. Age gaps, most providers are in there teens or 20’s most hobbyists are in there 40’s 50’s and 60’s while you start out  twitterpated and your glasses are rose colored, when that is gone, and you have nothing in common it is hard to live with someone who if from another time.

My recommendations, if you want a girlfriend or wife, go to church. This is not a good foundation for a relationship.

After the first few meetings, in both cases, we realized we had fallen in love -- the deep, passionate, soul mate-type.  Given they were both married and I not wanting to get too entangled, I maintained the financial component, as I make it a rule to do so anyway, but slowly began lowering it, til I eventually said I no longer want this as part of our relationship.

Re age, they were 8-18 years older, and have always dated and preferred men of this age differential.

Re seeing others, once we met, neither man had any desire to see other women and I stopped seeing clients.  (Though with one, we hired another woman for our mutual pleasure!)

Why did they end?  Neither really has...  I called time off as both were committed with family/ children with quite unusual circumstances.  And can't wait around five years to see where we are then and miss out on life, and they kindly agree that they don't want that for me.

Bringing us to another point -- yes, I do feel it is possible to love -- romantically love -- more than one person at a time.  I do so right now.  And my male friends clearly love their wives in a certain way (albeit not sexual, mainly as the mother of their children, and recalling how they used to love each other so deeply, the memory of which is still a part of them, and hence might still be construed as romantic love), and perhaps one also still loves a childhood sweetheart, or an ex...  Uncomfortable feeling knowing your SO might love someone else as well....  but they might and hopefully to a different degree.

Re whether active providers have significant others while seeing new men -- I never have and could never fathom doing so.  Yet do hear it is common.

So..... yes, serious long-term relationships via this hobby do exist and are/were/can be wonderful!

That's about as well said as any post I've read on this subject.  I agree with all that you've mentioned, either wholeheartedly or at least in part.

We've each come to this hobby for our own particular reasons, & undoubtedly there's a wide varitety of them.  

I doubt (or at least hope for their sake) that the guys who have began a new discussion on the subject & indicated they have fallen (or are in that process) for a provider, didn't come here seeking a realationship.  Sure, while a relationship may be a possibility, it's a remote one at best...not unlike walking through a minefield, & eventually with same result (emotionally) that might be expected of that undertaking.  

Assuming that the guy's feelings were completely unexpected, then standing back & taking a detached look would seem to be the best prescription for the condition.  We all hear & know about thinking with our big head instead of the little one...yet some guys continue to ignore that---that is evident both on the discussion boards & in many reviews.  The same logic should be applied to thinking with the head instead of the heart.  Even though that's a thousand times more difficult, that difficulty comes only after an investment of a lot of time...in the beginning it's not.  

I'm not saying that real & true friendship can't be found...it can & that has happened to me.  But some people can't see the difference between love & friendship...it's blurring that line that is dangerous.

I hope the next hobbyist who posts about starting a "relationship" with a provider does as ML suggests and steps back, assesses and moves on.  I would love to find a woman who meets all my physical, emotional and intellectual needs.  I don't kid myself I will meet her in the hobby.  Which leaves me with meeting women at work, at the gym, or at the deli where I buy lunch.  Think I'll stick with my current situation for now.

"Sleepless in Seattle" was a movie, i.e. entertainment.  It's all about the fantasy.

Until recently I have seen the same provider regularly for 2 years.  I literally had to stop seeing her because it became clear to me that I was developing some very deep feelings for her.  She also had some feelings for me as we had begun to see each other socially (outside of the provider relationship) and enjoyed each others company.  The minefield analogy is accurate.  Things about her profession that used to be a turn on for me began to literally make me sick.  Given her profession and the fact that I am married there was absolutely no future to this and my conscious side knew it.  It became obvious that I had to stop seeing her and I told her so.  I made it clear that the reason that I saw her as a proider in the first place was because I was in a situation where I did not want a relationship.  Unfortunately she did not take it well at all.  Regrettably I lost an absolutely incredible provider, a friend, and endured much more heartbreak than anticipated.  Take it from me, if you want a relationship look elsewhere.

Without naming names I can attest that "love relationships" can and do occure between providers & clients. The dynamics and obstacles are certainly different from civvi relationships but it can happin.
  Many of the board are quite skeptical on this subject and many nubees are equally naive. Personally I feel the brutal candor of the "transaction" and the reasons behind it make for a better, more honest starting base than most civvi relationships that begin with idealized romanticism.
  I'm 48 yrs old. Two failed marriages and two live in relationships under my belt. I hate the bar/club scene. As I have documented in other posts I find the internet "dating"sites" a mosh-pit of asthetically challenged, socially stunted, chronically bitter or shamelessly mercenary women. Given these alternatives and the general cost of dating and all its ansilary costs I'll take my chances looking for "magic" while I hobby.

  Cm.    

-- Modified on 9/15/2004 8:35:08 PM

I  had a young provider, satuck with her long after she gave up the work (kept paying).  Eventually she moved in with me.  I would have married her but she thought I was bringing up my young son too permissively and didn't want to be a mom.  She moved out again and we went on 5 more years on a cash + friendship basis.  So many nice girls get into providing as a first step in the american ladder.  They can be worth hanging on to long after they become respectable!!