I have never required references because I do not trust anyone & love to do my own research. If I do not know you personally, why would I think you have my best interest at hand? If your a provider & contact me for a reference I have to take my time to research if your a legit provider. I have to verify you are who you say you are & that takes time. Also, as a client why would you want any provider sharing your information? If you give permission prior too great, but what about when you don’t? Let me know how y’all feel providers & players because curious minds want to know…

this is a pattern I've begun to notice: more providers not allowing references for screening and/or only accepting & providing reference from/to providers they know personally and/or have met in person. And I understand the experiences that have informed their decision ranging from:  

 
• minimum provider response of "he's safe" and nothing referencing his character/demeanor in session or physical notes
• having to verify the provider if they do not provide verifiable info in their signature or in the email
• providers taking days to provide references for malicious reasons (often out of fear of losing that clients' business)
• providers taking days to respond for benign reasons like they are on vacation or an exclusive engagement
• clients not informing their provider they are seeking a reference so their information can be released  
• clients only using select providers that they have been good to for references to cover up that they have been abhorrent to others
• it can be the slowest method to verify someone, especially for a last minute engagement, as you're waiting on someone else to get back to you  

 
I have always believed that the ability to screen clients using employment info or ID is a privilege because there are so many other sex workers who can't afford to take that leap for whatever reason. So even though the majority of my clients do not use references to screen, I still accept references with conditions such as the client must inform the providers that I will be reaching out for a reference and they must also provide verifiable personal information (their name, age, etc). I also still provide references for clients (2 references/visit within 6 months after the visit) so long as the client informs me who I will be releasing the information to ahead of time (security).

-- Modified on 5/15/2022 2:10:44 PM

Unless a client has recent activity, references go stale quickly.  And there is the paradox of expecting the provider not to  keep records about you and then expecting them to give you a reference months later.  Also I never liked imposing on people for references.  
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I mostly have relied on p411 and okays there.  Haven't used the feature, but clients on p411 can invite providers who aren't on p411 to view the client's info.  

I see this happening more and more with the younger girls who have come straight from the titty bar/BP/CL and/or pimped out since those were streamlined mainly for the stripper/streetwalker crowd.

This to me just screams "gimme the $$ as fast as I can get it".  If you "love to do your own research" then you should have no problem.   Do you get pissed off if a provider calls YOU to verify if YOUR legit? Does it take too much time out of YOUR day to respond to them?

Learn how to manage your time,  get a daybplanner, treat this as your "job" , (which it is if this is your primary source of income) , and  not like a money train on center stage.

An "independent provider " has no house mom or pimp to complain and whine to to get what they want.  If you want to be an "Independant provider", be one.  Take responsibility and do what it takes to make you feel safe.  If that involves more  time than you like to do research,  then so be it.  

I understand not every one in this hobby actually gets it.  

 

 These guys don't want to hear these petty complaints over and over and over. Time to put on your big girl panties and keep the dead horse of the internet.

I’ve noticed quite a shift in the screening information on websites where providers are explicit in not accepting client references. At the end of the day I think clients and providers have to conduct business in a way that makes both feel comfortable.  

There are clients out there who absolutely refuse to provide any personal info. And there are providers who require these details for their screening. How those two requirements resolve themselves I can’t say, but probably those two won’t meet up.  

Personally I always ask my providers their policy in acting as a reference. Then, when making an appointment (typically 2 weeks in advance)  I’ll email and ask it would still be okay to provide their info for a reference. I then send a small token of appreciation for their time. To the provider requesting the info I provide email, website  URL and twitter handle to make their validation of the provider as easy as possible. In 5 years I’ve not had an issue.  

Alternatively I have provided my professional info early on when I didn’t have a strong network, but I do value and appreciate the reference network. However as mentioned I’ve heard many providers are shifting away due to the issue described. Which is too bad as the entire SW industry relies on mutual trust and respect. Ultimately we all do and provide info based on our own level of comfort and research.

QueenBia,  
 Smart lady. I totally agree with you. I will never trust any other person when it comes to any info on a Client/Hobbyist that I deal with. I always talk to the Client/Hobbyist and try to get the feel of him. If I don't like him for whatever reason, then I tell him and wish him luck finding someone else.

I don't know what personal info you expect gets shared beyond first name, email address and maybe phone number.

I had a very well known lady provide a reference for me. The provider contacted her without my knowledge, not that I had any issue with that.

The reference provider actually cc'd me on her response, which I've never had happen before. She wrote:

-----
Yes, I have seen him. He is a Gentleman and a sweetheart. No issues and no worries. I would see him every time.
Please give him a huge hug and kiss for me.
-----

Just curious, does that provide enough of an idea about what kind of client I am for you?

I certainly believe that every lady needs to do what she finds most useful and comfortable for her, so I have no problem with any lady not accepting references. I actually almost never use references - I have found that P411 with okays has been accepted by almost every lady I've met.

requested through p411 since those are the only providers I see. How the provider uses that information is up to them. I don't provide real info. To my knowledge, a couple of providers have reached out to my most recent oks. Typically, I have at least half a dozen recent oks (within the last 6 months) at any one time. As long as the provider responds back (some don't), they always accept my date request.

-- Modified on 5/15/2022 4:47:15 PM

Me too…most of my encounters are through P411.  Several times I have seen one lady and a few days later I have seen her traveling companion.  That works.  I have more than 15 oks in the last 12 months, and my reputation as A Gentleman is out there.  I have no problem if a lady I have not visited with before background checks me.  Recently when I was out of town, I wanted to see a very well reviewed lady. I contacted her through p411 and she demanded a 50% deposit even though it was not listed on her profile.  I checked her TER reviews and also there was nothing to indicate that was a requirement. I politely declined and moved on….I mean I thought the yearly membership fee + 36 OKs would suffice….however her business, her rules…I get that…Hooked up with another lady that was on P411 that trip and everything was magical!

I’m unsure what you mean by research. If it involves me giving out PII, that’s simply a bridge too far for me.  As I’ve consistently said, each lady is entitled to use whatever means she deems necessary to assure her safety.  As I’m permitted to avoid any lady who seeks that type of information.

As other players have pointed out, the information I authorize a lady to share with another is limited to my first name, a description, and my contact information.  I don’t view that as particularly risky for me. And if that’s sufficient for the lady, off we go. If it’s not, off I go. So far, I have not had difficulty meeting new SYTs in P4P. If that changes, I’ll be doing a lot more rubbing one out.

As with most things in life, there’s no one right answer for everyone.

Buen suerte.

of ladies I have seen more than once.  The only thing they are authorized to tell you beyond confirming my contact info is my physical description, that I'm a legit customer and whether they would see me again or not.  If that's not enough, then I would not see you.  I don't know if you got more out of me 10+ years ago, but this is all I give now.  Standards may have changed for both of us.

Just like many things in life, trust and good faith is what makes the world go around.  

 
In my line of work, we give out references all the time. I get requests for references from others, and I give out references to others. Human Resources gives out references to verify employment. Managers, Professors write letter of recommendation saying so and so was a great employee / student.  Most resumes have at the very bottom that "References will be furnished upon request". References /Recommendations are pretty common thing in business world.  

 
It's called good faith and looking out for one another.  You seem to have a conspiratorial view of looking at the world, and think that people would deliberately have intention to get you in trouble.. The time that you say it takes to research is not more than couple of minutes.  

 
Also, it's "you are" not "your".  (inicky46 - how did you miss that one?)

-- Modified on 5/16/2022 5:50:05 PM

You're making a generalization that does not apply to all hobbyists.  I can ask providers that I haven't seen in years for a reference because I am not like YOU.  Remember when you said this:
"I am probably the most forgettable human being walking the face of the earth."
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/ter-general-board-12/thats-why-i--966701?page=1

 
That's why YOUR "references go stale quickly."

When reaching out I provide a pic of an expired ID with some info blacked out, TER ID, and a "curated" linkedin profile. I've only been rejected once, that provider said I didn't have sufficient reviews of "high end girls".  

I don't have a whitelist or references. I won't share any providers numbers.  

As far as I know only once has a provider reached out to my regular provider, presumably from my reviews, when I arrived she told me xxxx said to take excellent care of you. Tbh I didn't like that because while I have no illusions about whether xxxx cares who I'm with, I still felt a little guilty about her knowing.