Im wondering if I am the only one, but doesnt it make you sad how the industry has changed so much over the last 10+ years. I dont even think its just the industry, its in general. Some of the men have no training in how to be a gentlemen anymore and the woman are scared to be feminine and vulnerable etc. I know the world has forced a lot to be this way, what are your thoughts? What experiences have you had that you think changed the industry? I just miss the good ol' days....

-- Modified on 8/24/2023 4:41:04 PM

Fewer trolls.

I think Sesta-Fosta was the biggest reason but there were others. When Ter went dark, girls found out they could move to twitter and have the same, or even greater success.  
The pandemic also was damaging, looking at it from the client side. Some women left the business and when the vaccines were available, the guys came storming back to play, and there had been a temporary halt of new guys naturally coming into the business so that made the wave of clients flooding the market into a tsunami with fewer women. Some went online to places like OF where they could get paid for content creation.  
Providers were then flooded with date requests and when a businesses gets much more demand, the inevitable rate increases occur.  
In addition to that, the overflow of clients allowed the ladies to tighten rules such as verification needs. They began to ask for selfies, drivers licenses, LinkedIn profiles, etc. The old days of two references and/or maybe a white list or p411profile weren't totally dead, but they were dying...quickly. Not with every girl, in every market but in too many markets with too many providers.
I am curious if someone thinks I am correct or if I am missing something more obvious. But yes, I think most of the clients are in agreement that there has been changes, massive ones in some locales and in certain types of pay for play.

in divorces and women having demanding jobs outside the home.  Young men need both a father and a mother.  Your dad provides for his family and teaches you how to shoot and dress a deer.  Your mother teaches you manners and politeness.  When women are too tired to spend time teaching young men how to treat a woman and behave when they are with a lady, then men grow do not grow up to be gentlemen.  Walk into any restaurant and look around the room. The men who have been taught manners by their mothers will help seat their date by pulling out the chair and remove their hats while dining, those that haven't will leave them on, which has always been regarded in polite society as an uncouth sign of disrespect to the women present in the room, not just their own date.  It has to start when they are children.  

I don’t consider 2010 the good old days. To me the good old days are in 2001. Lol smile for me! I’m old school, vintage to be exact. It’s like anything else in life that’s good you need to work for it. Nothing worth having is easy to obtain. I was introduced to TER in 2005. I love TER & this community! I look at this industry as fishing your not always going to get a good catch.

They are doing this and they are doing that.
Aside from the anecdotes that pop up here--from players who are self-selected on one side of the issue--how many "Theys" are doing all these things you don't like?

"Feminine and vulnerable etc" And that's because I screen! Screening makes me feel safe and therefore I can be completely vulnerable. And I'm always feminine 😍

All gentleman manners, be dam'd
In the past few years, you can see the shift in attitude. Before the terms "Hooker, Whore, Slut" weren't thrown around as must like it is now. Just look at the this board. There's an underlining of disdain I feel for women here and that translate to women being more apprehensive. And I' sure the prevailing attitude isn't just in this "playground". Women can't let their guard down, to relax and enjoy the moment.
A feel of what I'm hearing is that SOME guys, just have that entitlement of because I'm paying you I can do this or that.
Is it culture? Maybe, is it upbringing, again maybe.....or maybe we've come to part of where we don't give a fuck anymore. I hope not but.....As for me, I'm still going to continue to be me and me goes along way with the ladies I meet.

I do agree that for some  I am seeing more of the attitude by potential/clients I have seen that I can do what I want. I am paying and who gives a damn if I cancel on providers in their homebase and/on tour. And then I have met some great clients and reconnected with some old clients I have not seen in years.
I feel that things definitely changed here after SESTA FOSTA before there was more interaction with each other.
We might not have always agreed with each other and in some cases we can all recall a trainwreck or two kind of threads here and on other boards on this site. But there were more ladies and gents who participated on the boards.
When Covid happened it caused all of us to have to readjust. And I also feel like it made more guys perfect being timewasters while throwing around the covid excuse to cancel with no care if a provider had a cancellation policy or not.

It's definitely changed. Particularly our first world nations U.S./UK primarily is undergoing some sort of social engineering propaganda that's funded by big money and elitism i.e. the 'wokism' culture pressure of the last 6 years or so. It's infected institutions such as schools, universities, and now recent reports of banking bias to customers. Like making the nation seem like it's emotionally heated heading to another civil war.  

Personally I love a bold, authoritative provider that isn't afraid to be herself. I don't want a woman to act like a timid submissive robot. I want my women to be like me - uncompromising and true to herself.

-- Modified on 8/26/2023 9:51:15 AM

Woke culture and elitism have taken over?  
On a fuckboard?  
In an activity that's illegal in 49 states?  
Really?
Feel free to comb through the last 100 reviews in any major city and show us all the examples where "wokism" (as meaningless a term as has ever been uttered by man) has disrupted a player's fun.
Otherwise, please take this fox news bullshit to the P&R board.

You can find nasty mongers and providers. Go on twitter you can see the disdain by both sides. All you can do is be nice to each other.

I told her I liked the way she walked.
She said she thought her walk was too masculine.  
I told her no, it just looks like you know how to kick some ass, at least metaphorically.

Not just in the hobby, but everything in general.  I think the pandemic made mean people even meaner!  Here are just a few examples of  experiences I have encountered this past year in no particular order.  Please note I am old school and have never been involved in a physical altercation since I was 14 years old!
1.  A man my age, a little stockier than me tried to pick a fight with me, bc I carried my SILENCED cell phone to the theater.  I  work out with a Personal Trainer 3X a week, and even though I am only 5’3”, I would have cleaned his clock!  I am glad I was able to de-escalate the situation though with my wits as opposed to my fists!
2.  I informed the Administrator of my Favorite Charity I would be leaving them a Generous Gift when I pass away, as well as them being the benefactor of Sunset Clause, just in case my entire family passed away.  I heard back from them 6 months later after I inquired whether they had received my instructions….My parting shot to the Administrator was YOU’RE  WELCOME!  I am sure a few shallow people here in this community will suggest I leave the $$$$$ to them!
3. This is really small and I am not fretting this, but back last winter I hosted a Christmas Party, and while most everyone had the courtesy to RSVP, a few did not….again it really did not affect me, but being old-School I was raised to respond to an RSVP….it is just common courtesy.
Ironically all of my encounters with P4P Providers have been pleasant the last year and a half or so.  I live by the Golden Rule, treat the ladies the way I want to be treated, respecting their boundaries, and I do not try to cut corners with them. I pretty much stay with ladies within TER and P411;  95 per cent of the time I know what I am getting for my money.  And going into an appointment stress free without apprehension makes everything that much easier.

Agreed.  Its that simple

It is amazing to see how many people put this on a pedestal and overthink the shit out of it.  I gotta quote WIMissScarlet who said: "We provide a service. You pay for and partake of the service. Move on with life."   That was in response to my (admittedly) pretty long-winded post with the same point.  (Sorry for quoting you without permission WIMissScarlett- on the east coast we say its faster to ask for forgiveness than permission).

and cell phones for the increasing lack of human decency.  Our generation grew up having to learn to get along with people face to face, so we had plenty of practice in learning to choose our words carefully and in being civil to others, even if they didn't deserve it.  There are now two generations out there that had the internet and cell phone texting as their primary means of communication.  They insult you and if you call them on it, they send you a "sorry" emoji and they think that fixes it.  Technology is doing more to dissolve polite society than anything else in history.  The irony is that this technology makes communication easier, but people are still not learning the social graces to be able to use it effectively to improve interpersonal communication and relationships.  

Internet is just a tool. So are cell phones.

Well, both -- as did the telephone to call the complaint department over having to go to the store -- have typically increased the degree or anonymity. There is a pretty clear case to be made that, for whatever reason, people do seem to be ruder when they are more anonymous.

I think this is the first time I got quoted. Thanks!!!  

The internet is having a very huge effect on human interaction.  Dating apps give girls thousands of thirsty dudes to select from, so they all select the top 5%, chase them and get pumped and dumped.  A huge percentage of young men are now involuntarily celibate.  Chicks have body counts in the dozens -- even if they are 4's and lower.
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It's a new world out there.  Can't really predict where it's heading.

Sure, but that was my point - phones and internet are only a tool. The person him/herself chooses to use the tool and behave a certain way.

Both young and older guys use aliases here.

Most of them were to gently rib people I knew and they always knew if was me. They included:
GaGamblersRetardedBrother, and MP67sLiver.
Then there were those I liked because they sounded funny, like RubicsPube.
Or if I wanted to comment on a LE subject I'd use J.Edgar.Hooker.
The days of unlimited aliases were great fun. Like the Wild West. I had around 200 aliases back then and can't even remember most of them.
Thanks for reminding me of how much fun this place USED to be...

Our TER names are anonymous from our real life already.  I haven't used my alias here in years, and the only reason was to prevent potential escort candidates from not seeing me merely because of politics.  Eventually I came to the conclusion that of the few who might do so, there was a vast sea of escorts to choose from so it didn't matter if a few dropped out.  Haven't used the alias since.

To clarify I didn't imply that if/when someone uses an alias they automatically are impolite or whatever.

Tech has had a massive impact on etiquette.
I read a really interesting article on this but now I can out my hands on it. If I find it I’ll come back and post it.  

But I think that was CDL's point. Due to the changes in tools people behaviors changed. In short, mobile and internet are the proximate cause of the decline in polite discourse. Unfortunately, if the past few years are any indication, this behavior is spilling over into face-to-face type interactions.

It starts with people realizing they can have a Walter Mitty fantasy persona, and then it branches out from there to schoolyard bully, crude jerk, misogynist, tough guy, etc., knowing that no one they offend will ever meet them in person and call out their bad behavior.  In my early days on TER (when I was using my first username) I would occasionally meet in person with guys I knew only from their TER persona, and was often amused that the guys that project images of being a strong ladies men were often 150 pound nerds without much game, which is why paying is the only way they can get laid.  

Tools are merely a catalyst. Hence my argument that the behavior was - in most cases - always there. It's just otherwise suppressed by norms.

the way *some* providers treat clients with respect to cancellation fees or exorbitant add-ons. For example, I had to cancel once with a provider and it was 3 days in advance - ample warning, imo - and her website had a "72 hour notice" policy, and it was literally 71 hours in advance (to the minute) and she wanted 50% of the fee. c'mon now, that's ridiculous.

Miss Manners argued that etiquette was a social lubricant.  If you obeyed a relatively few simple rules, you could interact with perfect strangers without coming to blows.  People are inherently clannish and tribal and will grow up in diverse societies.  Rules for etiquette served as a sort of universal interface protocol.  Nowadays since we are still a largely white society, etiquette would be considered white supremacy by association.  

No.  
No!
I have spent my many decades on this planet in black skin. As have all my family and many friends, co-workers, neighbors, kids of friends, etc. Not even the most liberal amongst us has ever, once suggested that being polite and courteous equals "white supremacy". Where are you getting this shit?

Pretty much where you imply -- he's pulling it out of his ass.

"The standards of professionalism, according to American grassroots organizer-scholars Tema Okun and Keith Jones, are heavily defined by white supremacy culture—or the systemic, institutionalized centering of whiteness. In the workplace, white supremacy culture explicitly and implicitly privileges whiteness and discriminates against non-Western and non-white professionalism standards related to dress code, speech, work style, and timeliness."
.
This "shit" is everywhere.  

As far as I can tell, that article is more about hiring and networking and workplace behavior. Not about basic courtesy.

Well if it says "72 hours" then it's 72 hours. So where would YOU draw the line?? 65 hours? 70 hours?

It's but one example.  Get out of the liberal echo chamber and look around.

I do agree it is not the same at all. I think I first noticed the different guys after they closed down backpage. I noticed guys were now trying to come to other sites to find ladies and not knowing the etiquette because they came from backpage. Then when sesta and foster happened it scared away a lot of guys, ladies retired and things just changed even more. Now with covid it is like the perfect reason to be a troll.

Yeah I guess I just mean was receiving a cancellation 1 hour behind your policy really worth the entirety of a 90 minute session? I think that's just a bit out of control, and it deters people from rebooking or recommending a provider