While doing some banking the other day I bumped into my ex-girlfriend who was there doing the same thing. We parted company about  a year ago after a three year relationship which parting, I felt, was on reasonably good terms. I asked her if she would be interested in sharing a lunch and catching up on things since we split. She graciously accepted.

During the course of our lunch conversation I was served a full frontal, verbal  bombardment about what a low life I have become for associating with escorts and whores. Seems that a mutual friend (a guy) shared with her that I had become involved in the hobby during this past year. After picking myself up from off the floor after the initial assault (always thought she was a bit more open minded), I regained my composure and listened intently as I was lectured about what tramps these women are; women who have no respect for themselves or others; the lowest of the low; scum of the earth; etc., etc., etc................. Naturally any man who would associated with women of this caliber was no gentleman at all; is also amongst the lowest of the low and totally lacking in class, morals or virtue. In short, I was a filthy pig beyond social redemption (a hideous characterization but perhaps accurate albeit for a host of other reasons).

While maintaining perfect eye contact with her during the lecture, my mind wandered behind the scene to visions of  a number of occurrences that took place during our relationship. The purchase of gifts and jewelry by me which was always graciously accepted by her. The many and extensive travel trips we took at my expense. My helping out financially when she couldn't cover bills or rent payments. The many shopping trips we made to help fill out her wardrobe just to name a few. And of course, the sex we shared.

At the end of her discourse, I signaled the waiter to bring me the bill for our lunch and signed the credit card receipt. I took a deep breath, returned my eyes to hers and simply said, "At least they are more honest than you!" and I left the establishment knowing full well that she didn't have a clue what I meant.

The moral of the story I guess is that this hobby is what it is. It is straight up, for the most part ,with little or no game playing or emotional baggage and both parties know what it is all about. God, how I love this hobby!

Is she perhaps doing this "friend"?  Time to write him off your books!

glad you resisted the "well I wanted to see what good sex was about" line.

But you might have asked her to pay half the tab...

Civy women will never understand.  It's like answering the
question "Do I look fat?".  You can never say that she does.
There is absolutely no upside and plenty of downside to doing
so.

Looks like your friend is an A-hole.  Drop him.

fr

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 2:50:26 PM

well said! I am an occasional hobbiest and quickly realized the honesty that comes from my sessions are a far greater bargain then many ex-girlfriends

So I've got my tongue up this chick's ass....

And she looks at me like she's never seen this in bank line before!

Before Seinfeld broke- there was the Dice!

Sorry- the opening line reminded me!

"I wanna know what you've learned from your hobby...."

Does no one speak 'woman' any more?  Kids today.... You break my heart!

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 3:16:29 PM

No, I believe she was telling me what a bum I have become since leaving her amongst probably a host of other things that I don't understand. I never did learn to speak "woman" very well over the years.

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 3:19:40 PM

You know I'm just kidding, but seriously, at no poit did you see any hint of having her on her back that afternoon?  That would have been the ultimate challenge.  And to experience dumping her again, that would have been priceless.  You are a much better man than I for letting her off the hook that easy.

You say it's been a year. Looks like she harbored some feeling of rejection that you would choose to let her go and after seeing you again it came to the surface. Her lambasting of you was her oppertunity to vent her frustrations mixed with a dose of payback. She now can have a feeling of superiority and be able to tell her girlfriends how you turned into such a looser after the two of you split. Hey ,give your friend a kick where it hurts and forget it. Unfortunately this is how "Society" views us. There is no way to get a "Civi" to understand or acknowledge that we have found a way to be true to ourselves. That we can embrace our sexuality without getting hungup with our Victorian heritage. Remember, you will both get old someday and you will have many rich memories to smile about while she becomes a "Stewed Prude" They dont serve that in the old folks home.

Providers are a much better deal.

pay the tab because you didn't want to insult her intelligence and make her feel like you were buying her friendship.  I'm know, I'm bad.

Hugs,
Ciara

ask her to pick up the tab as we wouldn't want anyone there thinking that I was paying for her time at lunch!  LOL

and yes, you are BAD!

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 5:07:43 PM

We all know this, but it bears repeating anyway...

The source of male power is money and the source of female power is their beauty/sexuality.  Broad generalizations to be sure, but very few exceptions when you get right down to it.  Female power is so strong during a woman's peak years that even highly intelligent/educated women frequently rely on their sexuality to get their way.   It may even be subconscious for them, but they do it and we men all know they do it because we're on the receving end.

Women are to be commended, really, because they've successfully managed to create an artifical shortage of pussy in a world where women outnumber men.  This is no small feat if you think about it.  But the pussy cartel can only hold together and maintain it's power over men if all the women close ranks and only dole it out after men have jumped through the appropriate hoops.

Enter escorts and other commercial sex workers...  To "civilian" women, providers are the "scabs" crossing the sexual picket lines.  They're the strike busters that aren't observing the unwritten rules to maintain the scarcity of an otherwise abundant commodity-- pussy!   As a result, they're about as welcomed in female society as a rogue oil producer pumping at 100% of output would be at an OPEC meeting--  and for exactly the same reasons.

If providers aren't reviled by other women, and the men who see them chastised, then the whole system breaks down.  Hell, if guys had easy access to pussy, would any of us do all the bullshit things we've done in our lives just to get laid?  Of course not!  Women know this, and that's why they make us "pay" first, in so many countless and creative ways.  It's just a slight update on the past practice of wanting the ring before they "give it away" to some guy.

I can't say what part of women's upbringing makes them this way, but it must be a powerful influence.  Because to still act this way decades after birth control has been perfected means that concern about getting pregnant isn't the only issue, somehting else is.  It also means that in 2004, they still don't feel free to explore their sexuality in the same manner as men... or as providers, for that matter.  As a result, they still feel very threatening by women who do.

Why would someone like Netmichelle (just for example) be so threatening to a group of women?  Because she goes through life acting like a guy-- exploring her sexuality, getting laid, trying different things as part of life's sexual smorgasbord.  That sort of behavior, which seems so natural to we men, is the opposite of how women are supposed to act.  After all, you can't make men do what you want if YOU want to get laid as much as THEY do.  How dare she!  In fact, that's just about the one thing women can't tolerate, and its why women are so quick to call each other whores when they wan't to put down one of their own.

I don't know Netmichelle, so I'm only speculating (and certainly not singling her out), but I'm willing to bet that guys love her and that she has very few female friends that aren't providers.  It's just a guess, but I've seen this pattern many times before.  After all, nobody likes someone who crosses the metaphoric picket line because it threatens the power and security of the group.  

The bad news for we men is that until women truly begin to compete on some basis other than sex (not too likely in our lifetime), pussy is going to remain in short supply and commercial sex workers will continue to be reviled-- as will the men who see them.  



-- Modified on 5/22/2004 4:06:18 PM

That was amazingly well written and so darn true! I couldn't have said that any better and enjoyed the good read.

I only have 4 nonprovider female friends and have always had multitudes of platonic male friends  even before this hobby.  Women have always been defensive with me even when I was a prim and proper church going executive. I don't know why that is since I am not the sexiest women that I know, but I have always had self love and confidence.  I have found attitude adds to beauty and can make anyone more attractive in a sense. The female friends that I do have, have been there for years and know I chose to see gentlemen discreetly on the side and they accept it....except for one and if she ever knew she would be horrified and I would lose her friendship because she is a nonsexual prude and uncomfortable with her own sexuality. We all decided it would be best just not to mention it to her and those 3 cover for me nicely. I was impressed by the point you made and completely agree.  this board is so fun!
Hugs & Kisses!
Katy

You could have asked her to pick up the tab because you were saving money for a session with a provider.

our hobby has been vilified by as many (stupid) men as women! I do agree with all of your points though...

Point in fact: we have many LE attempting to curb this hobby in any way possible (btw - who's being hurt?) but illegal aliens (read that as possible terrorists) can cross the border at will!!
Damn! Our priorities are really messed up!

The hobby empowers both men and women by creating an arena in which there is an equal exchange of power.  As you point out, in the hobby, the bargaining over money and pussy is out in the open.  As Maggie Scarf points out in her landmark book on relationships, Intimate Partners, in healthy relationships, couples negotiate and bargain over issues openly; in less healthy relationships, the bargaining goes on, but it's hidden or couched in code -- e.g., I'll buy you the tennis bracelet, honey; perhaps we can go take a nap, then, huh?  

Many of us, I'm sure, have good relationships with our S/Os, but in many ways we're far more comfortable with a provider -- and even moreso if it's a regular or an ATF?

Man is the one who desires, woman the one who is desired.
This is woman’s entire but decisive advantage.
Through man’s passions, nature has given man into woman’s hands,
and the woman who does not know how to make him her subject,
her slave, her toy, and how to betray him with a smile
in the end is not wise.

 Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch (1835–1895),
 Austrian novelist. Madame Venus, in Venus in Furs (1870)

Amen, Sister! We have the guts to do a lot of things......Bad girls have way more fun! (eom)

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 11:16:55 PM

-- Modified on 5/21/2004 11:22:09 PM

So much so that... it made me do a search on your ID to revisit
your previous writings on this thread.I look forward to reading them in earnest.I did notice that your writings start in late November of last year and at that time you had indicated you had just changed aliases.

Questions...

Previous ID?

Secondly, as I quickly glanced over your past posts(impressive resume, I might add),I was surprised to read that you had not seen a provider in over 5 years. Any particular reason?

Cheers!

Kramer...and the soup Nazi...


Cheers!

She is probaly still looking for someone else to pay her bills, buy jewelry and expensive trip.

THEY have the guts to rob us for IT...and after a while just rob us, and not even give IT to us.

A while back, I went to see a provider who has over time become a good friend. I felt like she wasn't into it so I started talking to her.  At first she didn't want to talk and get the session going, but I kept prying.  Before we knew it 3 hrs had gone by and I had to leave.  I left her donation without getting what I was there for. She was really surprised and gave me a look of gratitude that I have never received from an SO. To my surprise, she more than made up for it on the next session!!!

I agree with Cogito.  Civis have trained us to give up the bejies for practically nothing, and you lovely women are messing up their system. They're not jealous at all. Only threatened.

The woman in the restaurant assumed ( aided by lots of bitterness and anger) that our colleague was merely thinking with his little head.  If anyone read this board, the above post being a good example, they would find a set of thoughtful, introspective and generally intelligent group of providers and hobbyists who have made adult decisions about their lives after much reflection.  It's not just about impulsive behavior and commericializing the sex act--it's about finding little bits of happiness or at least a respite from the storm of everyday life, or whatever it provides for that hobbyist and provider.  Whatever it is, it is not routinely the shabby, vile couplings in the mud that many civilian women imagine (it would be too harmful to their psyches to admit that it is not all filth and degradation and that it might actually be fun).  Whatever we don't understand, we tend to fear.  Whatever we fear, we tend to hate.

What you said is correct. I have no female friends. Just my best male friend of 11 + years who is also my webmaster and confidant. I got into this for the same reasons as other women, but I have stayed due to other reasons.

I love sex. The more I have it, the more I want it. At some point I may start giving back money to my clients as tips for getting me off. (First I need to pay off those pesky student loans, heh-heh) Since I have been in the hobby in less than one year, I have had the best sex I have had in my entire life. Who knew that something I started to do out of desperation has become something that I have deep respect and love for. I have found this bottomless well in my sexuality that I have just started to explore. Its true, at 33 I am having the best sex I have had in my entire life, and with every client I taste a new flavor and savor what it means to be a woman.

Thank you for the words of truth. I salute you.

since, per your discourse, she holds the desireable commodity.  So I don't think it is so much the scarcity of pussy as to keep a good one on an exclusive basis, which is the foundation of the nuclear family unit.

Thanks, VR.  I was very active in the hobby during the 90's, but there are several reasons why I've been on the sidelines lately.

1. I had a GF up until two years ago.

2. I live in hobby hell (OC, California).  My favroite FS and favroite FBSM girls both got busted and quit.  I've yet to find suitable replacements that don't require I get a home equity loan.  (see next item)

3. Having done most of my hobbying before the internet inflation factor of the last few years, I still have sticker shock at the current prices and choose not to participate until I have a corresponding doubling of my income to match the doubling of provider rates.  The "New Economy" has kicked my ass, and I no longer make a fat six-figure income.

4. As I've aged (now 53), I've lost enough sensation in my penis that I can no longer feel ANYTHING while wearing a condom.  I can't tell whether I'm in her or in my pants unless I look down.  All the equipment works great when bareback, but since I can't feel anything with a condom, it seems rather pointless to pay four bills just to be frustrated.  As a result, I write about my past hobby experiences, but remain frustrated by the current state-of-the-hobby.

5. I have enjoyed some FBSM's recently, but chose not to review.  Fortunately, I found them the old fashioned way (newspaper ads) and saved $100/hour vs. their TER price (I didn't ask, that's just what they quoted me).  When they say "tell me where you saw my ad," it's so they can quote you the right price.

As for my other alias, I've used several since I dropped my original alias, which I used on TER from about 1999-2002.   I've thought about bringing it back since I was well known for posts like the one above, and certainly enjoyed writing them.  But things are cyclical around here and I really felt the board changed a couple years back.  As a result, I decided I was just wasting my time writing that type of post.  Who knows, maybe the pendulum has started to swing the other way.

I will tell you that I've been posting occasionally on my home board (LA) using the "LAbias" handle.  The problem with this multiple alias thing is that I can't get mail from anybody since my account is still in the old alias.  

So I appreciate your comments, and hope others feel the same way.  Who knows, I may still "out" myself one of these days.



-- Modified on 5/22/2004 4:43:36 PM

I worried all night that I shouldn't have used you as an example when I've never met you.  I'll admit it was a little presumptuous.

But thanks to your many colorful narrative posts, I feel like I DO know you- or at least your TER persona.  As a result, I was fairly confident you were what I'd call a "man's woman."   That's a compliment, BTW.  But it usually means that men love you (and you them) and that the annoying problem areas in your life will, more often than not, come from dealing with other women.

It's not easy being a woman because they get caught in the cross-fire between two "battle of the sexes."  The obvious one versus men, and the other one from women who should be their friends, but are threatened by them, or competing against them by putting them down.  

Don't worry, Netmichelle, you'll always be welcome on our team!

Actually, I totally agree with you on your point. They are very threatened. I guess if I were in a monogomous relationship it might be so, but I'd be less threatened by a provider than a lady who really likes my fellow and wants to see him romantically. That, my dear, is the truth.

Hugs,
Ciara