...fluids exchanged. Thats where the true risk lies correct? I hate to be profound, but all the posts lately about BBFS have me wondering; are those clients who are so adamtly against it, letting providers do BBBJ, or DFK, or DATY? And are the providers allowing uncovered DATY, BBBJCIM? Im curious...

A recent response to what my response was on the last bareback post (lost yet?), included a link to thread on the Boston board about a guy who has been reviewing girls that let him go bareback...

Now me, Im a no nonsense covergirl. Thats not to say I havent considered it, but I still havent done it, and the reason being is Im scared of cooties. But that whole post brought up some interesting points that honestly made me re-evaluate my thought process on the matter...

To be honest:
I do kiss some; I sometimes perform oral uncovered (cant exactly explain why I allow some and not others because there is no real logical reason); I allow some to do DATY (same here, no reason I dont allow some); I perform uncovered DATY; and I allow finger penetration. All of which can transfer bacteria and viruses, and some even sexual fluids...

So what is the difference? I cant say that there honestly is one... bottom line, if Im kissing you and I have an open cut in my mouth and you have one as well-- whatever is in my blood stream is now in yours. Pure and simple fact-- yet there was no sex to be had...

So why all the fuss about what someones preference is?  Is it because we have been raised that condoms are key to being disease free-- but thats not always true, as we plainly see... (ooh I rhymed), or perhaps because health class always left out those intruiging little side notes, or because they have yet to invent a condom for the mouth...

So, to sum it all up: To BB or not to BB-- that is the question... surely the main answer will be to cover oneself and lower you chances-- but you have to wonder-- and I mean really wonder, is the risk not just as high or even sometimes higher? HIV for example-- is transmitted in sexual fluids... however its easier transmitted in blood. Say the girl you are going to see tomorrow afternoon is infected (not that I wish this one anyone) for example, and she brushed her teeth a little too hard this morning... and you give her a deep kiss as you walk through her door... you know the walls of the cheek are thin and frail-- easy to scrape with say the slighest scrape of a tooth, and all exposed are your blood vessels... think about it, its not as slim a chance as it may seem. These arent some strange "what if" type occurances. That is normal shit-- brushing teeth, a kiss...

Not that I am trying to ruin kissing for ya-- just a little food for thought...

I got plenty others to ruin-- and I would, but I just made this post too long...

And just 'cause a girl is careful with clientele does not in anyway mean she applies the same rules in civilian life-- who knows what (or who) she is doing outside of her profession, and what she has...

Well, Im off to find some websites to back me up on this crap... hopefully I will be back when this has posted and I will have some good stuff to share...

Have fun responding to this one-- I would like to see what people have to say now...


Danielle

There are fundamentally 3 distinct issues, in regards to hobbyist reviews describing BBFS.  For myself, I do not care what other people do behind closed doors, whether a girl I meet at a bar or through this hobby, the risks are equal.  Except for asking about her past partners, possible drug use, getting her tested, and waiting 3 months for full results and being celibate for those 3 months, not even kissing, I have to presume there is a risk.  That being said, the 3 issues are:

1. The hobbyists and ladies involved with all of this - many are concerned of some ladies or some men catching and spreading a health risk to others and possibly themselves.  Upon learning of a specific lady or hobbyist who provided or received BBFS, that person is subsequently shunned by a large portion of the people in the hobby.  Some don't care.  Others might care, but not concern themselves with the private lives of others.  A few might become more interested to see a certain lady.

2. The honesty or intelligence of either a hobbyist indicating that he seeks or has gotten BBFS or of a lady advertising (unlikely) that she provides BBFS or having been reviewed as providing BBFS.  Sometimes reviews are false.  Such false reviews subsequently endanger the lady because other hobbyists might then expect her to provide BBFS for them.  Others might change their mind about seeing her because they now believe she is unsafe.  This is the only issue I see as being relevant to the hobby and various review sites, the harm to someone's reputation or business based on what could very well be a lie.  Even if, as you intelligently states, risks are present in many forms and a condom barely protects the "riskiest" sexual act, most of the people involved on both sides see the BBFS versus covered FS as a litmus test for safety.  That being said, it's irresponsible of people to share reviews in which BBFS took place, even if they are telling the truth.

3. Pregnancy risks.  This one is self-explanatory.  This is the primary reason I like BBBJ yet always prefer covered FS.  I am not looking to impregnate a provider.  Other than that, I accept all other risks and presume that the lady is also accepting of any risks related to what she likes or is willing to do.  Anyone that puts a condom on and expects to be significantly more protected from STDs and various health risks are fooling themselves.  The risks are mostly still there.  I don't care if others use condoms or not, I just think they should shut the hell up about it if they do BBFS.  Statistics have shown that many providers do at least occasionally offer BBFS and almost half of all hobbyists have done BBFS with a provider.  Maybe the statistics are skewed and all those men saw the same provider and the rest of the providers in the stats have only done BBFS once.  Doesn't matter, the risks are the same, the issue is moot, except in the case of reviews and advertising as described in my second point.

VC

He wanted bareback. I said NO WAY. he said what if i give you $1,000.00. I said I don't care if you gave me $3,000.00. NO MONEY IS ENOUGH!. This is my life and I love it and want to stay around to bug everyone for a long time. So get real and don't ask for bareback.  BE-GOOD-I-TRY-TO sassy (orlando Fl.)

Just my .02 worth....

BBBJ...OK.  BBFS or BBA...NO WAY!

I'm a hobbyist, but I also have a "civilian" female SO
(who occasionally participates with me in the hobby) so I have
a permit to "hobby" from her AS LONG AS IT IS SAFE!!!!!

My SO is the ONLY person I do anything other than BBBJ with that is
UNCOVERED ..and my provider knows that and respects it.

I want my providers healthy and around for a long time to be with me.. and STD's can RUIN a lot of things in your life (if not
end it altogether) so why take chances?

Just my .02 worth....

Right, we're going to be dead a long time.  No, sense of rushing into it.

I am willing to take the minute risk of everything except BBFS or BBA. I have turned these offers down.

I feel the other risks are overstated. I don't worry about it and have never caught anything in over 1000 encounters with over 100 women.

....re-read it and see what my message is.

Condoms can stop health risks only for they can fit...

Dani

You know,i,ve been keeping an eye on different forums and it seems like the number of providers offering bareback services is on the rise...and i find that scary.very scary.i guess i,m from the old school where i was taught that playing it safe was always best..and no amount of money or clients were worth my life.i see some people are saying bbbj is ok,and everything else is covered--well,theres just as much risk with that as anything else...like someone mentioned below me,a cut in the mouth can go undetected,and blood to bodily fluid contact is deadly.
i know what some people are gonna say..."i,ve seen quite a few ladies,had them bbbj on me or i did daty and no problem...well,good for you...but just remember,all it takes is ONE TIME being wrong and that leads to a lifetime being sorry,if,in fact,its something that medicine cant treat.men who choose to daty on a female run risks too.....bateria from a undetected yeast infection can give you thrush in the mouth and throat region--or,even if she doesnt have one,her vaginal bacteria can lead to a throat infection(thats why its best to rinse with listerine before and after)or worse,your mouth can come in contact with herpes sores(which can hide undetected in the vagina) or warts.likewise for the woman doing bbbj....just because you cant see anything wrong doesnt mean there isnt..theres always that chance.

i,m not here to rain on everybodys parade,or preach...i,m just expressing my concern...i want everyone who is involved in the hobby,male and female,to have fun,and not get hurt.when and if a hobbyist or a female does anything bareback,they are putting their ULTIMATE trust in the other person to be clean and tell the truth about being safe or not...alot of people ARE honest and clean,but there are always those that arent and will lie for the sake of either pleasure or profit.you cant possibly  100 percent sure know the others persons personal habits-their hygiene,if they are a drug user,or if they are safe at home or not...all you have to know is their word...and hope its good.and your life is alot to hand over to a stranger.

personally,when i see reviews of ladies and the terms bbbj and bbfs are mentioned,i shudder in horror...and i hope,for the sake of safety,that the reviewer was just lying to get a free membership point for vip.i REALLLY hope that ladies out there arent under the impression you have to risk your life in this hobby just to make money-that its ok to be safe,cause you,ll make money anyway....i know alot of people arent fond of the "covering" because sensation isnt as sharp,but,but it sure beats the hell out of playing russian roulette with your own soul.

just my thoughts...phoenixxx

...what I am saying is stop thinking of STDS and think of Ds in general! Cooties dont just come from straight sex! And a condom only goes on a penis or inside the vagina! But that leaves other places uncovered! A provider can get HIV from BBBJ and guys can get it from DATY! Germs dont just come out of sexual organs! Diseases come from, and can be spread from anyplace that fluids can exchange. Why are you only seeing me meantioning BBFS? You must not be reading the whole message...did I make it too long? Im trying to get you to see that even though condoms help, they dont stop it... people get aids from needles-- no sex was had, because thier fluids were exchanged. As a person who has had a relative recently pass from getting HIV from her SO, that she always used condoms with, I would like people to wake up and smell the latex! I am baffled as to why this is not as simple to realize as it seems to me!

Please read my whole post before you respond, my issue is not with BBFS.

Dani


-- Modified on 10/14/2004 8:05:22 PM

...and thank you for doing so.

What's more dangerous? Riding your harley without a helmet across town to have completely covered sex with a provider? Or putting on your helmet for the ride, then removing it to allow yourself the reward of receiving bbbj and/or daty? Just curious. That'd be an interesting study, no? Oh,  I know, better to be helmetted in both circumstances -- well, if by "better" you mean "safer" -- but if you're gonna live on the edge in one way or the other...which way is edgier? To take it one step further let's compare racing your bike helmetless cross-town running stop signs and red lights versus going for bbfs and bba finishing off with some a2m action?
Bottom line I think it's a matter of degree, not absolutes.  Like the man says: risk versus reward. Life is full of choices.  I try to be as smart (read "safe") as I can and still enjoy the pleasures of  being alive. I think Willie S. said something about  "my vices (being) so loved by my virtues".  A conundrum with no simple answer, life is.
Sex is.

Wanna take a survey?

Dani, to have a real discussion on this we really need to incorporate some comparative data.  Unfortunately, I don't have this at hand.

I do remember seeing, however, that the risks of contracting HIV from oral activities were very low unless one had mouth sores or bleeding gums.

I would assume that the odds of contracting other STDs would be much higher for oral activities, however.

You are correct sir. HIV is contracted by blood to blood contact. I have a relative in hematology that has informed me that you must have open sores also to transfer the virus. If you want to be scared, just imagine how easy it is to contract west nile virus and realize that HIV can be spread exactly the same way, without human to human contact of any kind. After we have been told that we cant get this disease from insects, in fact we can, just like west nile. Guess they had better hurry with that vaccine

WTF?  I'd love to see the research on this one, other than something you heard from somebody somewhere sometime.  Please publish a few cites for this if you want anybody here to take you seriously.

Also, it is not ONLY spread by blood/blood contact.  It can be spread in other bodily fluids and absorbed through intact mucous membrances.  Since you insist "...you must have open sores to transfer the virus..." and you are wrong, I doubt you'll be able to provide any evidence of insect transfer.

But of course I could be wrong.  Please enlighten me!

Indeed, it is only transferred by blood to blood contact and THAT is a fact. Everything you have heard to the contrary is supposition and not documented in any medical journal anywhere.
If you want the reports on research on mosquito carriers, you will need to contact the CDC and request info through the freedom of information act. I will not do this for you.
I know the research and it is identical to the west nile situation. "Sores" is probably not the best choice of word to describe a vulnerable spot, cut, scratch, canker sore, you get the idea. The reason anal bareback is so dangerous is due to the fact that this activity almost always produces vulnerable spots on both partners. I am not some kid talking out of my ass about this type of thing, I have the most credible of sources, a research scientist who specializes in blood disease. Believe what you want, but what you wrote about mucous membrane is wrong. It has to be blood to blood.

For the most part I would agree with you, but there are well documented cases of HIV positive mothers passing the HIV along to their child during childbirth.  This could be argued as a blood exposure transmission, but research suggests it could also very well be transmission through the mothers intact mucous membranes and into the baby through the eyes.  

As for vector transmission, all I asked for was a cite, not a whole dissertation posted.  What I was looking for was a publication name/issue/volume #, letters, etc.

Thanks for your opinion, but for every research study you find stating "blood to blood only" can be refuted by a different study that states it can be passed through intact mucous membranes via vaginal secretions and semen.

Now, I can scarcely imagine running willy-nilly without that rascal at a place like Phoenixxx's for instance...A virtual cornucopia of liquid transference...But sadly, the real news is, I'd grown up in the age of "free love".   (That was the sans-prophylactic stage.)   By the time I was 19 I'd lost the connection between all the faces and the fun...Stranger yet, in the years to follow, despite the intervention of things like Jim Baker, The Swaggarts and a renowned sense of sensibilites (ie: marriage)...I just kept bare-bangin away!   When I ponder on the possibilities...well it's staggering!   Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, Phillipino...JESUS the Phillipines!!!!  Then, throw in Spain, France, England, Scotland, Italy, Sicily, Greece, Majorca on the Med cruise we took...Mix thoroughly with an Indian Ocean cruise and a continuance "collecting" samples of body fluid from places like Kenya, Seychelles, Hong Kong, Singapore, Iran and Diego Garcia and I am flabbergasted!! (but I was no longer a pollywog
Do you think...If I put one on RIGHT NOW for the rest of my life it would help?

get hit by a bus in the end.