Regarding the thread below: "Too much information...", there seems to be a preponderence of opinion that no man should ever date a provider.
Now think about that. Are you saying that providers should go through life without the healthy, normal, romantic relationships that we guys all take for granted?
I have know quite a few providers well who have healthy and well adjusted relationships with providers (both as spouses and boyfriends) and in most cases, the SO knows full well what she does.
If you do not want to date a provider, so be it; I can well understand it. But don't tell everyone that such a relationship is nearly impossible.
This is far from the case.
Nothing is impossible. It just takes the right kind of people to make it work and that both parties understand the relationship.
Some providers make better friends than providers. Some wives make better friends than wives.
I have two very dear friends that are providers but whom I no longer see as providers. (Friends = no sex..BTW)
And is there anyone of us that wouldn't have the need to share their lives, however small that part may be, with others?
Given your apparent success in this endeavor. I will say that I do not believe that it is impossible to date and have a relationship with a provider. I would say given the human predisposition towards jealousy it isn't likely to be successful for most.
I've dated civvie women where the situation was clearly stated non-exclusivity, and for one in particular we had genuine affection for each other. In fact, we still get together periodically for dinner. The sexual aspect is gone now since she finally met that special someone and is monogamous. I said we had genuine affection, but I never saw the situation for more than it was and neither did she.
The bottom line for me is this: You have to set the boundaries. If everyone understands the rules and is willing to live with them, go for it. But to live with constant angst over the object of your affections having sex with other men (whether for money or not)? I think its nuts. Friendship? Sure. Affection? OK - with limits. Romantic relationship outside the boundaries of the transaction? No.
JMHO.
Edited for a question:
If you had your preferences, would you want her to sleep with other men? This sort of leaves you in a situation where you can pursue your own desires. Perhaps you're in a unique position to have your cake AND eat it too, so to speak (pun somewhat intended)
-- Modified on 9/15/2007 9:35:06 PM
My thought about this is that if you met them in a provider/client relationship then they may not have been the same person if you had met them some other way.
To me that is true in any sort of friendship. Enjoy your friends for who they are or think about your friendship.
I'm sure we all have our ideal thoughts about our relationships but if we accept reality we may be better off.
to do to find satisfaction and fulfillment in their life.
If that involves having multiple boyfriends and/or being an escort, then that's what I want for them to do.
In my case, Bev understands that having sexual relationships in on going relationships with several escorts is what I need to float my boat, and she supports me in that completely.
We learn and thrive from all the interaction, not to mention pick up a few interesting tricks once in a while.
Ironically, before my ex divorced me, we had an open relationship where she stopped harping on my hobbying and she found boyfriends on the internet to make whoopie with.
This bliss lasted for a few years before she decided that she would rather go for the gold and live on her own.
It was costly for me, but so be it.
I think I am much better off now.
My hat is off to you. I suggest that your attitude regarding your love object being happy and fulfilled works because it meshes with your desires too. If she had a need to do something that was completely out of your tolerance zone you would have the same problems most of the other guys that fall for a provider.
mrfisher's answer to your edited-in question. That is exactly how things worked for Miki and me.
As for your additional point in this last post, I think that too has some merit. I will have to reflect on it for a while - amongst my other reflections, of which I have many these days.
Peace
I think it's certainly possible, although it doesn't happen very often. As I understand it and as has been pointed out many times on this board, the ladies are conducting a business and this is their primary objective. But sometimes a lady and a hobbyist, being human, click for some reason. They enjoy each other's company beyond the provider-hobbyist aspect, and their relationship can go beyond just a business relationship. It's fantastic when that happens, but I would guess that it happens to very few people. IMHO.
paxx7
It seems that there are a few difficulties that always crop up in talking about these relationships.
1- The degree to which we are socialized in our culture to equate sex with love and the degree to which sex provokes those feelings in our brains.
2- Male territoriality
3- The dishonesty that is necessarily associated with the profession.
I think the better providers, the one's with whom clients 'fall in love' are much better able to comaprtmentalize these issues than are the clients and that's why successful romantic relationships between clients and providers are relatively rare.
I also think that the consistent dishonesty takes a toll on all parties and makes it more difficult to establish as close a relationship as might be possible otherwise. It's easier to be open and honest with our aprtners when we can be open and honest in all things about our lives. We're only as sick as our secrets.
but rather no "ordinary" man should ever date a provider. I've never been the jealous type... and that helps a bunch... heck, I've even suggested to other hobbiests that they see certain ladies I know or have been with. Likewise I've suggested to specific ladies that if they have the opportunity that they see a specific hobbiest (and that hobbiest is actually one of the nicest most sincere person I've ever met!).
Clearly, this is not a dating service. But it does involve male-female interaction. And think about your everyday work encounters.... how many women do you see in your everyday job.... ok? and how many of those encounters lead to boyfriend girlfriend relations? Few! so... this hobby is a business... I would expect VERY few to lead to lasting relationships...
As to the dude who posted below? IMHO he was acting like a child. He was not thinking the consequences of what he was asking of his paramour. That is, that she stop providing! (or that she stop telling ugly clients that she "loved" them)! (I just wonder how "handsome" he is! and if as the thread above wonders, how large his "package" is...!).... All these thoughts tell me that he, as an individual, may not be mature enough to handle the situation....
You clearly are. Or at least from your postings you appear to be. I suspect, you are rare. For you do not seem to be the type that leads a provider on with "one day baby, you and me" and has them fall in love with them without reciprocating because the sex is then free... but they never intend for "one day" to actually come... and most important, they do not care about the lady - in any way except as a tool...
Your expression of your feelings for Ms. Fisher are quite clear - you do care for her, love her, and cherish the time you spend with her, but you BOTH recognize that you BOTH enjoy the variety and infinite nuances that are possible with mutiple partners... and hence - you continue to hobby while she continues to provide! Wow! how many are that open minded? Few... would be my guess....
So Mr. Fisher, you are both emotionally mature, but more important, you are exceptional -
... when a guy is paying the lady for having a civvie-type relationship. That is pathetic. If, however, it's two people dating in a normal sense, and one is a provider who is off the clock, then I don't see any issue with that assuming the guy doesn't either.
I'm not sure the issue is so much "dating a provider" as that is a very subjective phrase and covers a lot of territory.
What amazes me is the number of guys here who write about LOOKING for "LOVE" from the provider's they hire. Hoping for chemistry or connection or friendship is not necessarily an unreasonable expectation- many of us have enjoyed some great ladies that have enhanced not only our sexual lives but, in some cases, our lives as a whole-- all good when it happens.
But to make LOVE the ultimate objective of your PAY 4 PLAY ventures should send up more than a few red flags. Of course, there are a lot of guys out there who think they can buy their way to a woman's heart in the regular civi world...that usually works out well too...lol
As I said in my ridiculously long "advice" post a dozen or so threads below, NO ONE should ever be "looking for love" in the artificial world of this hobby.
As I know all too well from my travels, strange things can happen and an amazingly deep love can come to arise out of this world. But this is a rare and mysterious thing, a thing which arises on its own way from forces beyond our control, and which cannot be explained or even understood, even by someone who has been there.
But to participate in this hobby as a way of actively "seeking" love is the height of absurdity and futility.
woman's heart.... don't forget, that many women who look down on escorts - but are the first to expect that a man buy their way to her favors... and many do.
love is an intangible emotion... however, and this is cold... so I will warn you dudes and dudettes out there, it is not an absolute truth... few things are...
love is intangible and very difficult to define.
but SEX! easy to define... and sex can be purchased and sold... in quantifiable packages... an hour, a pop, a specific act...etc.
Those who come here to purchase love, had better come with an ironclad definition of what they expect love to be... because baby, I've seen a lot of provider and agency listings... and no where on those listing of services do I see love.... and the rate set for that....
-- Modified on 9/16/2007 5:53:34 PM
I'm perfectly aware how many men are looking for chemistry and a sense of connectedness when they seek my company. In all fairness, I'm seeking the same in them. Not love, or emotional stuff, but I won't even bother meeting someone with whom I feel no spark. What's the point? I'll just feel like a robot, won't have any fun, and neither will they. In the end we'll both leave feeling worse and less satisfied than if we'd never met. Luckily, I'm easygoing and like people, in general.
So, sorry for getting off the point, but I thought that aspect should be addressed from a provider's perspective.
-- Modified on 9/18/2007 2:34:03 AM
for 4 years.... and we have gone on 'dates' but nothing serious... guess what? this past weekend we went out... and she responded to a question of mine... nothing out of the ordinary... but now I've no sexual interest in her whatsoever... but a friend? yea.... can do that!
If I am friends with a provider, it just makes being with them all the more pleasant... just like my stripper friend... as one of my civie friends said, hanging out with her would be cool! and it is.
There are two very nice things that providers have done with/for me. The first was after my mom died, one just talked to me... for several hours... that was a kindness, I cannot repay... and other was a provider called and asked me if I would just take her to lunch.... I did. kinda cool.... and that too, I cannot repay as they are simply moments that come up, and are uniquely provided... as a kindness to a friend.
Thanks ladies.