Once, back around 2007 in the UK, I found it rather expensive and not that good.

Next in Quebec City around 2000 I found it very cheap and very friendly but just FBSM.

Last in Vancouver Island I found it also fairly inexpensive and very satisfying.  That was around 2001.

I am all for decriminalizing the hobby, mostly for the gals' sakes as I feel the issue of getting caught by LE is fairly remote to my situation.

TER Community:

I'm writing a paper that calls for the decriminalization of providers' services in the United States.  I've posted another thread regarding providers' experiences with disabilities.
However, there are, of course, many questions that I would love to ask.
Here are a few more:  

1)  Providers in decriminalized countries:  Considering TER is a worldwide network, I'm sure that there are many TER listed providers who live in areas where their work is legal.  How has this affected your work?  Depending on where you are, do you feel that you are protected by the legal rights your government provides?

2) For reviewers who may have experienced services in both criminalized and decriminalized countries, do you notice any differences in providers' attitudes?

3) Lastly, what steps have you observed providers and reviewers take to avoid STD contraction?  I know that most ask for references, does anyone ever ask for a recent clean report from a physician?  

I can't respond to the messages I've received in the mail section of my TER because I only have a basic membership, at this time, but if you would like to correspond via email, please leave an address on this board and I'll get in touch with you by Thursday, Nov. 29th.  My paper is due on the 30th.
For those who've requested a look at my paper, I'd be happy to share a draft with you.  Feedback from individuals who take part in the hobby would be greatly appreciated.

And would love to help.
If you email me at   [email protected]  I will respond with a more permanent address to use for further correspondence.

Looking forward to reading the paper,

cw

I'd argue that the girls would actually be hurt by legalization. With legalization there would be a lot more competitors entering into the market and plenty of those competitors would be very public. The market would certainly get larger, but price points would probably get driven down. There would still be a market for high end call girls, but for most of us, if we could walk into a building like they have in Germany, walk past 50 girls sitting on stools outside of a small room, pick one out, and then pay $50-75 for 15 minutes and get half and half, the market for $300 an hour girls would dry up with only the very best able to make it work. Not to mention the lower end providers would be totally driven from the business.

There's a lot of dynamics which are unforeseen in this area. I just know if I were a provider I'd be a very outspoken opponent to legalization, for purely selfish reasons.

Lets say when Walmart comes in the town, the mom and pop stores lose some business and so do higher end stores. That's all part and parcel of a capitalistic society.

First of all decriminalization is not same as legalization.  I am not a lawyer, but this is pretty common sense. Decriminalization means that prostitutes could not be arrested by state or federal authorities for doing what they do. Legalization is taking it one step forward and setting up rules as to what the prostitutes can do where they can set up business etc.

Legalizing prostitution would be great thing for the government. Right now, govt spends a ton of tax payer money in busting providers and Johns. With legalization, they can focus on forced prostitution, underage prostitution etc.. It will also bring in tax revenue, which is much needed for the states and our federal government.

Depending on your political leanings, and if you believe in progressive society, it would only make sense to legalize prostitution. Nearly all the countries in developed world have some form of legal prostitution. Germany, UK, Canada, France, The Netherlands... are just to name a few..

So what if the providers would not make the same money as before? In a free market they can demand whatever they want...If they are that good, people will pay...

Overall, it will be a great thing if we legalize prostitution...

I'm not arguing my personal preference. As a libertarian leaning person, I'd vote for legalization. Also, if it became decriminalized, you can bet it would become regulated. So I'm not sure of the relevancy of drawing that line.

Just PM and I'll give you my email.

Some secondhand knowledge - take it for what it's worth: I have a friend who very briefly worked in a legal brothel in Nevada. She said that even a kiss had to be negotiated, that sessions were transactional. Which wasn't to her taste. She preferred her agency's working environment to that of a legal brothel, and left after a week. She never went back.

I can only personally answer #3.  

The answer to this is none. It's considered extremely bad etiquette to ask a provider her last tested status, and inconceivable for a provider to ask a client the same. A provider normally wouldn't show a client her test results because that document also contains her full name and personal details.

Do you have an email address at which people can reach you?

Since in her OP she asked people to post their emails so she could email them.

He wants to read Julie's paper, so you want him to PM you, so you can give him your email address? Why would he want YOUR email address? And what does your email address have to do with Julie's paper?

My head spins when I read your posts.

I can be reached at [email protected]

Julie

Somebody thinks I wasn't clear,
I'd like your paper as well, please PM me and I'll send you my email addy.

[email protected]

I've seen two in Mexico, they were more relaxed at moment 1
In Germany.  She just was a  anyway noway to compare her for your paper.
Australia, Aussi's are always friendly, but she was so free and unihibited, I wouldn't expect from the civies I've known before it was legal down there.

I've been to Amsterdam many times, although I didn't partake. I saw many on the streets and in the famous red light district and none looked happy.

Also a recent article reported that presently they are the lowest paid in Western Europe.  The same article reported Belarus prostitutes stating they did not want legalization because it would increase the competition and lower prices, pointing out Amsterdam.

You make this crap legal, and married men are all of a sudden going to walk into a public brothel as you say, just to save money knowing they would lose all they have?  I think not. Legal or not, those of us who are discreet about what we do now, would still remain that way. The ONLY clients bargain shopping would be the very ones who also do it now...bottom feeders, who don't care what they catch or who knows about what they do. Anyway, this is not about making it legal....it is about simply removing the CRIMINAL aspect.

I would also argue that ALL places where it is legal are cheaper...look at brothels in Vegas or the outskirts if you will. ONLY overseas, it is cheaper because in most places it is also cheap as fk to live. I would never get a damn hooker license and admit it publicly...that is just crazy and only for those who never plan on doing anything else with their lives. Same goes for the men, I would assume. You start bringing the Govt. into this world of ours in the U.S. and see what happens. We are not exactly in Amsterdam here.

-- Modified on 11/26/2012 5:51:25 PM

You would be trading one form of government intervention (outlawing) for another (regulation). So I certainly agree with your point that government intervention typically either drives up prices, it also can drive down availability as it does in this market. And yes, married men would walk into the brothels, just as they did for over 100 years in this country, just as they do in countries around the world, and just as they do your incall location.

As for the legal brothels in Nevada, that's a fair point but I would argue that there is a scarcity issue at play there. As that is the only legal place in the US, they get a fair amount of traffic.

Also, since you seem to share my overall mistrust of government, wouldn't you agree that it is highly unlikely that an activity such as this would be decriminalized and then ignored by the government?  Sure, you might operate without your "hookers license" (just as plenty of other unlicensed Folks ply their trade) but brothels would be set up and they would be doing business. And I also doubt that in a country that doesn't require a 16 year old to get parental notification on an abortion is going to be making the "licensed provider list" public.

Anyway, it's all speculation. Fun to talk about and project on this stuff.

First if all, follow the thread. Your first reply was to cwilzx, not to the OP. This reply is also to cw, and so is the one under! Is it that difficult for you to follow a thread? Secondly, you are asking her to PM you when in her first post she says she doesn't have VIP, and she asks people to post their emails! Duh!!  Reading comprehension is not your strong suit!

-- Modified on 11/26/2012 4:19:23 PM

I have seen providers both in areas where prostitution is legal and where it is not...

I don't think I saw much of a difference in attitudes, with providers paid at a similar level.

Some of the window girls in Amsterdam seemed to not really be enjoying the work much, but some did.

The interesting thing to me was that in the Netherlands and Germany the women working between escort level providers and the cheaper window girls, seemed to be the least happy (by between I mean $100-$200 for a session, usually in a brothel).   I don't have any experience with women paid at that level in the U.S. or elsewhere as I only pay for higher end providers in areas where prostitution is not legal, so I'm not sure if that remains true in countries where prostitution is illegal.

As for avoiding STD's - from the hobbyist side, I of course always use a condom during sex, and get tested every few months when I am seeing providers.  The providers themselves always use condoms, and in rare cases will insist on using protection even when they are receiving oral sex.  Not as uncommon is providers that have you use a condom when performing oral sex, providers at all levels in the U.S. do and do not do this.  In countries where prostitution is legal all of the lower end providers I saw used a condom for performing oral sex and none used protection when receiving oral sex.

You really might want to consider paying for VIP here as not only would you probably get PM's with lots more responses, but you could also read reviews for providers here and overseas and see if you can gain anything from that.

criminal aspect to be abolished, but not wanting to tax on it and somehow get involved. I simply don't buy that making it legal would all of a sudden attract so many new people who are of quality. It might attract more crack heads and women with no other job skills, but professional women who are already here, would still not broadcast it...nor would new professionals in the RW, even if it were legal.

If you remove the illegality you'll remove some of the stigma, and that will cause more people to enter the profession. And I suspect you'd have the same thing here that you do in the Amsterdam and German brothels - lots of immigrants.

Actually, I tried to give out my email this morning, but TER decided that the message was unfit for my message board because it included personal info.  This was probably because it really was my personal email.  So I'm trying to write down all the emails that have been provided on this board thus far so that I can email people as soon as possible.  However, I'll try this again, please feel free to send mail to the following address that's associated with my TER account.  [email protected]

Would you argue that the hobby should be decriminalized because providers provide a necessary and important service?  Why?  

The real question for reviewers being:  Why/How long have you been seeing providers?  
I'm very interested in truthful answers.  
I'm sure you're all aware that there are more than enough articles, books, interviews, etc. that give every reason under the sun.  That still keeps me interested in the people that have responded to my questions thus far.  I've never knowingly spoken to anyone who has ever seen and/or sought out a provider, so you're my first contacts.  

If you're uncomfortable answering on this message board because you have a reputation to uphold as a reviewer, please email the address I just posted in a reply.  I wouldn't want anyone to experience uncalled for judgement from anyone else.  There are plenty of things I'd never tell faceless people online about the reasoning behind what I do in bed, yet I'm totally comfortable talking about pretty much anything with people I may have only met once.  I have absolutely no reason to judge anyone here.

she says at the latter part of her post that she cannot receive messages. What a dumb fuck he is

No one has ever DIED because he could not get his rocks off...that was what boys told us when we were 12, to get some lol. It did not work then, but it works now only because there is a freaking payout. For the women who claim they are saving marriages, I must chuckle. If sex with a hooker is the ONLY thing saving your marriage, you have more problems than you think. I am not saying sex is not a release or moment of bliss much like a drug, but it is not what keeps true love together. It just might keep a man from going nuts and leaving his kids.  If that is the case, every time I am ever stressed I could also justify why doing drugs or drinking keeps me from going out and shooting someone. Sorry, don't buy it.

-- Modified on 11/26/2012 8:44:49 PM

If and when prostitution is legalized, we can likely expect MORE government intrusion through regulation, requirements,  and, of course, taxes. Sin taxes on prostitution would probably make sin taxes on alcohol and cigarettes pale in comparison. Those higher taxes - plus enforced payment of income taxes for many ladies not already paying their fair share toward our "progressive" society - would cut into the gross incomes of providers. In turn, the ladies would most assuredly pass on some of those new costs to their clients who would end up paying more for the same services. For some, this might translate to less visits/shorter visits to providers which would equate to lower gross incomes. In addition, other government imposed requirements and associated paperwork of running an independent sexual service provider business could prove to be onerous and only serve to drive many providers back into the underground economy, thereby defeating the reasons for legalizing prostitution in the first place: greater safety and another lucrative source of tax revenue.
Both providers and clients/hobbyists may want to give this idea some further thought before jumping on the legalization bandwagon wholeheartedly.
As far as mere decriminalization, I submit to you that if our society ever becomes sufficiently tolerant and accepting of prostitution to pass decriminalization on a wide scale, nationally, then it won't be long before the politicians on both sides of the political spectrum see fit to tax it in order to bring some good out of the bad.

In areas of our country where one may find large immigrant communities, one will also find large numbers of immigrants involved in prostitution, for cultural reasons as well as for legal and economic reasons. If prostitution is decriminalized or legalized, that will still likely continue to hold true since "the oldest profession" will still likely be seen as unsavory and as a profession of last resort by most women. Even if legalized or even decriminalized, both your illegal immigrants unable to obtain other employment legally as well as others at the lower rungs of the economic ladder along with those women desiring to rise rapidly up that ladder (to include illegals, legal immigrants as well as struggling native-born women) can still be expected to turn to prostitution as both a means of survival and/or a relatively quick way to achieve "the American dream", at least financially.
,

email [email protected]

nor will later. Some guys will not even see a woman who sees 2 guys a day, much less one who is having to bang 4 or 5 just to make some money because she tries to undercut by charging only 100 bucks, thinking it will bring her more clients than the girl charging 300. Yes, it certainly will bring in more clients, but not the type I would ever want to deal with. The women who are NOT dependent only on the hobby, will still remain that way regardless of the legal/illegal status. We even see this now. How many women do you see on BP offering 80 dollar specials and what type of guys see them?

The guys who avoid those types of women won't all of a sudden want to see them just because it becomes legal and you have more cheap women on BP. Guys searching out bargains will be the ones who see them, and as you said are already doing that NOW.  New entrants into the market, won't necessarily equate to "quality entrants." I would assume women who do have professional careers entering the market because the stigma is reduced, would still feel they deserve a premium rate, because they are not dependent only on this income.

I think it would be a balance of both quality women and more drug addicts, or women with no other job skills entering, so I doubt prices would change drastically for EVERY woman. For some, like the ones who can't do anything else...most certainly, but that does not mean the majority of hobbyists will want to see them either just because the rate is low.

I have to agree that I get the "Thrill Of The Hunt" vibe quite often when looking for a provider.  The clandestine nature of the encounter also adds a degree of excitement to the entire process.
"zx... cwillzx. double oh six and a half"  (where's that martini I ordered?)

I would opt for decriminalization over legalization any day, for the reasons so many have pointed to before.  
Increased government involvement in what goes on in my pants (or rather, out of my pants) is not something I would look forward to in any way, shape or form.

-- Modified on 11/27/2012 10:10:46 AM

Well, lets look at a couple of things. First, there will always be a market for the higher end and mid range services. But, would those markets be as large as they are today?  I doubt it.

Speaking for only myself, I don't go and see $80 women because they are usually fugly and I would tend to think that the environment would be dirty. I'm not going to have sex with a fugly woman in a dirty room unless she's paying me. A lot. And that ain't going to happen.

Now, on the other hand, brothels in Germany and amsterdam ( and when I was in the army years ago I did partake) feature women that would be getting 9s and 10s on reviews for looks. Do you really think that a large group of guys currently spending in the $240-400 range wouldn't elect to stretch their provider budget by having 3-4 less romantic ( for lack of a better term) meetings than just one very nice visit?  I tend to think they would. Oh, they wouldn't give up the middle range girls completely, but they would visit them less frequently.

But again this is all speculation. I just wouldn't be in a big hurry to see legalization occur if I was a provider.

Reducing and/or eliminating exploitation and violent crimes.  The community, mostly those working in it, are targets for violence and abuse because of the criminalized status.

Beyond that, we all should have the choice and freedom to do what we want to with our own bodies.

Sex work has value in society, but not in all situations.  I would never argue that as a main reason for decrim.  No need to, as the above should be enough IMO


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