Rowan and Martin?

Talk about sock it to me!

The technician was never prosecuted?  Gee, that's a surprise.  Why wouldn't the admin want it on public record that the CIA was spying on American citizens?

The reporting slant of this is really interesting as Castro did not fully occupy Cuba until Jan of 1959.  It took a year for the US to realize the full extent of what had been hatched... leading to the 1961 Bay of Pigs Disaster... and the Oct 1962 Missle Crisis.... With me as a kid hiding underneath a jr. hi. school desk on the gulf coast...

so tell me about it...

in short, this article was written to make it sound like a republican plot - when in fact it was executed by a democratic pres... and his then att. gen brother, RFK.  

In short, I really wish that news reporters would actually write factually and historically, no matter their personal political leanings....

What a putz reporter....   having lived through it, makes me realize just how biased this story is... as it fails to present the full story.

I think you're misreading the article.  The article states that this planning started during the Eisenhower administration, and continued under the Kennedy administration.  But it also clearly suggests that these were CIA activities, and not activities of either administration.  That is, they weren't really related to domestic (party) politics at all.  It also states that the information only went as high up as the CIA director, and makes no claims that either president was aware of what was going on.

Agree Biz.  Wasn't sure if I was going to be able to finish high school or have to go into the army.  Living on the East Coast, we were more in range than those of you on the left coast.

Please point to a section in that article where it "was written to make it sound like a republican plot."  Call me a moron(don't), but I just didn't see it.  

I may not have been alive during the Bay of Pigs, but as an avid history buff, I was never under the impression that assasination plots were only in vogue during republican presidencies.

If you're going to call the article biased (and many are), at least be as unambiguous as you want the reporter to be.

"According to a five-page memo in Tuesday’s release, the plotting began in the final months of the Eisenhower administration, under the leadership of Richard Bissell, the agency’s director for plans. The operation used a go-between, Robert Maheu, a former FBI agent who did work as a private investigator for the CIA."

As I say, Castro was not fully in power until Jan of 1959!  (I can remember watching him on TV atop a tank rolling into Havannah.) It took a full year for the government of Cuba to fully embrace communism - and for the US to realize what had happened - and by that time... we had Kennedy.  So I am not sure what this paragraph/sentence refers to.  By the way the article starts on a more accurate note by stating the following:

"Buried deep in the hundreds of historical documents the CIA declassified Tuesday is a memo that reveals for the first time that the KENNEDY ADMINISTRATION's CIA director, ALLEN DULLES, personally approved a plot to assassinate Cuban President Fidel Castro"

So to really end the article pointing to Eisenhower's Admin (and last time I checked he was a Republican) while it was the Kennedy admin... well?  what can I say?

RFK - our then ATT Gen was an avid "black arts" and "Wet work" advocate... and Jack?  his favorite author was Ian Flemming.  Sheese... yea, but having lived through the era helped....

Dulles was the one of the founding fathers of the CIA and was named director in roughly '52 under Eisenhower.  Kennedy kept him on until the Bay of Pigs fiasco.  But remember.... this activity was sanctioned by Kennedy and his bro bobby!  

by the way, just because it was a CIA operation does not mean that the pres was unaware.  just ask dick nixon and the plumbers..

the activities went on during both administrations.  Maybe the plotting did begin in the final months of the Eisenhower administration.  Somehow, I'm doubting that the CIA was looking elsewhere, and then in Jan of '59 saw Castro and said "Holy Shit!  Who is this guy?  We better off him!"  I am guessing that they had a dossier on him for a while.  Either way, as you pointed out, the article pointed out that the plan wasn't APPROVED until the Kennedy Administration.  

Don't be so quick to accuse others of laying blame when it might not be there.

I stand by my prior statement.  That's all.  'Nuff said

and sad to say, they were not.  McCarthyism, Polio scares (before the vaccine), fear of communism (the other extreme), no right to abortion for ANY reason, air & water pollution with noone checking the water to determine its safety, segregation (both in the north and south) - yea.... the golden days....

Once I look back on that era and realize that while much was good, we have come a long way... and too bad that the media (and for the most part the ignoramus college history profs) fail to put our present era into the perspective of that historical lens.

a while after Castro took over...  in fact the trade embargo (not the arms embargo which went in effect DURING the Cuban revolution) was put into effect (the first of many ever broadening embargos) on Oct 19, 1960 and diplomatic relations were severed on Jan 3, 1961~  shortly before Kennedy took office....

as for your assertion that the CIA suddenly said ""holy shit" who is this guy?"  Well, I think that we have seen them do that before!  ala Osama Bin Laden... and the way the article is laid out.... that is my beef.... it is not a fair presentation of facts.

I think you're a little naive if you think that Eisenhower was some benevolent grandfather who would never tolerate such things, but the Kennedys were the evil twins thirsting for Castro's blood.  Is the fact that JFK liked Ian Fleming somehow proof that he knew about the plot to kill Castro?  My understanding is that there is no direct evidence that either administration had knowledge of this CIA plot.  I don't think it's any more likely that Kennedy knew than Eisenhower (or vice versa).  You did get one thing right, though:  Kennedy did sanction the Bay of Pigs.

Much of this stuff was leftover from the Eisenhower adminnistration.  Take the Bay of Pigs invasion (in which I participated).  Kennedy learned about this mission shortly after taking office.  The planning and buildup was well underway before Kennedy was inaugurated.  I give him credit for pulling the plug when he did.  Better late than never.  

As I recall, Kennedy's handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis has been lauded as one of our Nation's finest hours.  That can't be said of our involvement in Iraq.

Kennedy had no inkling of the Bay of Pigs operation prior to taking office only a few months before the invasion.  This WAS an Eisenhower approved operation.  Kennedy went along with it because the military and the CIA pressured him into it.  We have to remember that Kennedy was an inexperienced, young guy at the time and (at initially) was in over his head.

And by the way, Kennedy DID force Allen Dulles to resign (along with other high level CIA officials) shortly after the Bay of Pigs failure.

You may have "lived through" that era getting hard-ons whenever some teen honey walked to the front of the class, but I "lived through" that period as a naval officer who was aboard the USS Essex, the carrier that was to provide air support for the invasion.  If I reveal any more than that my identity will be at risk so I will not add anymore detail.  Just let me say that I heard the two-way radio communications when pulled the plug on the operation.  Our attack aircraft were armed, on deck, and ready for launch.  

We were briefed on this operation before Kennedy was sworn in as president.

Just an interesting factoid.  When I lived in LV 66-71, Vegas was undergoing two revolutions: transition from mob rule and beginnig the transformatin on family entertainment.  Lots of high rises under construction.  Best examples, Dunes, Sands, Caesars.  Maheu was a czar for Howard Hughes, the excentric.  The golden age for Vegas, the "rat pack" and the boyhood for Steve Wynn.

I stand corrected.  Thanks for the clarification.

I guess the fact that Rowan made it to 1968 (start of Laugh-in) means that he wasn't having that affair? You're right, it is bizarre that this fact popped up in such an article.

even the historians have a difficult time pinning down the "real" JFK.  As was pointed out "Kennedy also championed the cause of Cuban "freedom fighters" in their crusade to take back the island from Fidel Castro's newly victorious regime. Liberal Kennedy supporters, such as Harvard economist John Kenneth Galbraith, were worried that J.F.K. would later pay a price for this bellicose campaign rhetoric. But Kennedy's tough posture helped secure him a wafer-thin victory on Election Day."  

yea I do 'member - and thanks for the cut on where I was... I lived on the Gulf Coast - in a targeted region.  so my little ass was available for a soviet nuclear dump site.

by the way - U2s over Cuba - flew out of um where?   Shaw AFB - where I was stationed.  

All this to say nothing of Judith Exner - and the mob connection.

As far a military getting it right.... shall we say that I am friends with several retired and active duty folk.... and even they will be the first to say that they differ on opinions....  and well know what opinions are... and everyone has one.  Seriously, get a grip.



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or I wonder what Judith Exner would say....! sheese.... the mob connection continued.

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You seem to always have one. I thought he worded it nicely. Just because your opinion differs from his doesn't make him wrong or you right. However, I think from his vantage point in the military it comes a little closer. "Seriously, you need to get a grip."

This stuff belongs on the political board. There's too much stress in people's lives as it is. I say, "Let's make love not war!"


Hugs,
Ciara

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