...the preponderance of anecdotal evidence and even well defined
studies come down on the side of women on this issue and as it should be in my view. I think it is difficult if not impossible for men to have a true appreciation of how women are not as free to simply be out on their own in any number of situations or settings as we men are without having a much higher degree of vigilence. Yes men can be threatened in any number of situations and do in fact fall victim to assaults and other crimes at times but we seem to take for granted how easily we can freely move around and feel relatively safe without constantly having to look over our shoulders.
"The law is changing to make it easier and easier to accuse someone and it's mainly because of people that think the way you do. It used to be a principle when making laws that it's better to let 10 guilty go free so that an innocent person would not go to jail."
I think this perhaps is more perception than reality in terms of whether or not the law is actually changing. I think it is still perhaps a basic tenet of our legal system that it's better to let any number of the guilty go free so that an innocent person would not go to jail but as with any issue we deal with in civilized society we simply can't expect to reach a perfect solution. The people who are harmed in the process certainly suffer and all effort should be made to right the wrong and clear their names. Those bringing false accusations should be held accountable to the full extent of the law and perhaps even subject to paying financial damages but of course this may never fully rectify the situation for the falsely acccused. There have been several publicised cases recently where DNA evidence and other means have been used to free the innocent who have been falsely accused and imprisoned for a crime they did not commit albeit long after the fact in many of these cases. So the system is capable of "righting the wrong"
although there is perhaps no way of fully righting the wrong in such cases. A less than perfect legal system but perhaps the best we can manage as a civilized society.
"The last one I heard about was that if you are in the middle of having intercourse and the woman says to stop and you don't, you can be charged for rape."
The operative phrase here is "the woman says to stop and you don't". No matter how misleading and manipulative you may think the woman is in such a circumstance your only option, and your ethical responsibility is to STOP period. This has never happened to me and I'm sure I might feel very frustrated and even used in such a circumstance but there just may be reasons one has not considered when a woman decides to withdraw her consent to the sex act. At that point no matter the reason it is non consentual and in your own self interest and out of respect for her wishes you had best comply or face the consequences. Yes there are manipulative even emotionally unbalnced people in the world and you simply have to be prepared to deal with it.
"Can anyone say that women might make false allegations without people getting upset about real rape victims?"
This is an emotionally charged issue. If you have ever known a woman who was "a real rape victim" especially someone you knew well, respected and valued in your life perhaps you would more fully understand why some people "get upset" over this issue.
Again I understand the frustration when the point is to present the other side of the issue and perhaps to some extent it does become a numbers game. Yes the falsely accused suffer greatly and there is not an easy answer for their plight but I would submit far more women have their lives damaged if not nearly destroyed by being raped sometimes very brutally. Some end up being homicide victims in the process for which there can never be a way to right the wrong.
You see, I know a woman who was raped. She is someone I have known for over twenty years. She's intelligent, articulate, well educated, artistically and athletically gifted. More important than that she is warm friendly and as good and decent a person as anyone could expect to ever know. She did not ask for this, did not provoke or invite it in any way. Aside from the obvious consequences of rape she acquired herpes from the perpetrator.
I remember when she first told me of this and how I was absolutely stunned. I was never so at a loss for words. It seemed as if there was nothing I could say or do that would even remotely be adequate to comfort her. I feel as if I
utterly failed her in that moment and told her so shortly afterwards promising that I would try never to fail her in that way again. Yes she is precious to me in a way that I could never adequately convey in words, perhaps my best friend. So if there is a bit of bias on my part I decidely plead guilty.
However I stick by my premise that rape far more afflicts and damages women's lives than the lives of the falsely accused as tragic as that may be in its own right.
Finally as far as I can tell from previous posts to this thread it is NOT being stated that anyone bringing charges CANNOT be under suspicion. The investigative process has to play out and the accuser needs to be protected in the event that her accusation proves to be true. Yes there are potentionally damaging consequences for the falsely accused and I have addressed that earlier in this post. It is a complicated issue and there are simply no easy well defined answers in many cases.
-- Modified on 9/7/2003 11:43:36 PM
WOLF! - WOLF!: False charges of rape often a call for help
http://64.4.26.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=446f9a69de94c038f7ff7dfd33c7b1b3&lat=1062915641&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2efreerepublic%2ecom%2ffocus%2ff%2dnews%2f733627%2fposts
page B1 of the Boston Globe ^ | 8/15/2002 | Ellen Barry
Posted on 08/15/2002 7:09 AM PDT by rface
On Monday, residents of Middleborough heard the appalling story of a disabled woman forced into a truck by a stranger in broad daylight outside Dunkin' Donuts, raped, and shoved out the door onto a roadside. Over the next day, alarmed residents called police with tips and earnestly told reporters that this kind of crime simply doesn't happen in Middleborough.
As it turned out, it didn't. On Tuesday, the woman recanted the rape charge, admitting she knew the man and that the sex had been consensual. The case of the ''crazy wild rapist'' - one that ''felt kind of strange from the start,'' said Middleborough police officer Ronald Costa - was closed 24 hours after it had begun.
Residents of the quiet community said yesterday they were mystified why the woman, a well-liked 41-year-old in the early stages of muscular dystrophy, would take her allegation so far.
''I felt it was very sad that it had gone to the point where someone was falsely accused,'' said town clerk Sandra Bernier. ''Of course, anything's possible in this day and age. Somebody could be scooped up and no one might know it.''
As police investigate high-profile serial rape cases in the Boston area, the Middleborough allegation may not be the last to be discredited. Although seven assaults and rapes have been reported in the North End, police have said they suspect two allegations are false. They have not yet explained what leads them to that conclusion.
Estimates of how many rape allegations are false range from 2 percent, cited by women's groups, to 15 percent, used by the FBI. An advocate for rape victims said false allegations are ''a reality we're not going to deny,'' but they are far less common than women who never come forward because of the stigma they will encounter.
The argument that false allegations are common ''is not only hard for us to believe, but it does not match the advocacy work we've done,'' said Toni Troop, spokeswoman for the advocacy group Jane Doe. ''There are so many barriers that would prevent someone'' from labeling themselves a rape victim, she added.
Mental health professionals say there are a variety of reasons why a woman might fabricate an account of a rape. For some it can be an obvious response to a personal problem, such as an unexpected pregnancy, while for others it may be a sign of underlying mental illness.
''As bizarre as it is, it seems there are people who feel so needy that they resort to burlesque and even to self-harm,'' said Dr. Mark Feldman, an Alabama psychiatrist who specializes in ''factitious disorders,'' in which patients invent crises as a way of getting attention.
Although the category of factitious disorders once consisted mainly of Munchausen syndrome, in which patients fabricate illnesses, American society has developed increasing reverence for victims, making it a desirable status for attention-seekers, said Feldman, who has consulted for men accused of rape.
In 1999, a painful drama was played out in Amherst when a woman approached police with a bloody face after three other women reported that they had been raped or attacked by strangers on a college campus. Several days later, after police had launched a manhunt for the rapist, the woman signed a statement saying she had fabricated the attack.
Despite anger among local people, prosecutors decided not to press charges against the woman, who apparently cut her own face.
''I don't think we will ever know'' why the woman invented the assault, said David Angier, a spokesman for the Hampshire district attorney. ''I think it happens rarely, and usually the person is making a plea for some kind of help, and there's a mental health history.''
In Middleborough yesterday, residents were struggling to readjust to the dropped charges after a nervous two days. Wayne Perkins, the town's chief selectman, said he had ''felt sorry '' for the woman, and now was simply curious about her motives. ''I think we can all surmise reasons,'' he said. ''It raises all kinds of questions in my mind.''
Police said the woman, who is mildly disabled and lives in a nursing home, had been alarmed by the dramatic consequences of her accusation and approached authorities Tuesday night to tell them the truth. The man she had accused was an acquaintance, and ''it was all voluntary, even the sexual part was voluntary,'' Costa said.
In the days after her accusation was reported, the department received tips about her attacker's whereabouts from as far away as Maine, said Costa. ''It was like a big ball of wax,'' he said. ''We're the little town of Middleborough.... We average one murder a year if we're lucky.''
Have I missed something? Do you have a point to make? Are you perhaps suggesting because a few women cry 'wolf' all women claiming to be raped should be treated with suspicion? Some clarification would be helpful.
"false allegations are ''a reality we're not going to deny,'' but they are far less common than women who never come forward because of the stigma they will encounter."
I know 4 women who have been raped, only one reported it to the police (none of the women were providers, btw) and her case resulted in a serial rapist getting a 12 year jail term. All 4 still live with the consequences. I have no doubt most women making false allegations have some sort of problem but their behaviour only impacts negatively on the treatment of genuine rape victims. Allegations have to be treated as genuine to begin with otherwise the criminal justice system would be failing victims of crime.
What exactly ARE you trying to say?? Do you know that 1 out of 3 females are sexually assaulted? Most go unreported. Look inside your own family. There are members who've been assaulted and you don't even know about it.
You'd be wise not to bring up a serious subject like this unless you have some good points.
I have unfortunately known a number of women who have been raped, and the looks of their faces as they have recanted their sories to me is something that wil determin how I feel about this subject for the rest of my life.
If men were in a situation on a regular basis that exposed them to the possibility of rape (like prison, for instance), I would wager that there would be few who would not sympathize with the awareness that women need to have all of their lives.
There is a big lull before any new developments in the Bryant case so the media is using fillers of all types. Can anyone say that women might make false allegations without people getting upset about real rape victims? It's easy to sympathize and get emotional for victims of any horrific crimes. But, what about the people that are falsely charged? The principle of "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't seem to apply any more. Once you are charged, even if you are vindicated, There have been many that have their lives ruined. Even worse, how about those that are innocent and serving time in prison for a crime they did not commit. The law is changing to make it easier and easier to accuse someone and it's mainly because of people that think the way you do. It used to be a principle when making laws that it's better to let 10 guilty go free so that an innocent person would not go to jail. The last one I heard about was that if you are in the middle of having intercourse and the woman says to stop and you don't, you can be charged for rape.
Are you saying that because a lot more women are victims of real rape than those that are falsely accused and/or sent to prison; therefore, anyone bringing charges CAN NOT be under suspicion?
-- Modified on 9/7/2003 11:28:55 AM
...the preponderance of anecdotal evidence and even well defined
studies come down on the side of women on this issue and as it should be in my view. I think it is difficult if not impossible for men to have a true appreciation of how women are not as free to simply be out on their own in any number of situations or settings as we men are without having a much higher degree of vigilence. Yes men can be threatened in any number of situations and do in fact fall victim to assaults and other crimes at times but we seem to take for granted how easily we can freely move around and feel relatively safe without constantly having to look over our shoulders.
"The law is changing to make it easier and easier to accuse someone and it's mainly because of people that think the way you do. It used to be a principle when making laws that it's better to let 10 guilty go free so that an innocent person would not go to jail."
I think this perhaps is more perception than reality in terms of whether or not the law is actually changing. I think it is still perhaps a basic tenet of our legal system that it's better to let any number of the guilty go free so that an innocent person would not go to jail but as with any issue we deal with in civilized society we simply can't expect to reach a perfect solution. The people who are harmed in the process certainly suffer and all effort should be made to right the wrong and clear their names. Those bringing false accusations should be held accountable to the full extent of the law and perhaps even subject to paying financial damages but of course this may never fully rectify the situation for the falsely acccused. There have been several publicised cases recently where DNA evidence and other means have been used to free the innocent who have been falsely accused and imprisoned for a crime they did not commit albeit long after the fact in many of these cases. So the system is capable of "righting the wrong"
although there is perhaps no way of fully righting the wrong in such cases. A less than perfect legal system but perhaps the best we can manage as a civilized society.
"The last one I heard about was that if you are in the middle of having intercourse and the woman says to stop and you don't, you can be charged for rape."
The operative phrase here is "the woman says to stop and you don't". No matter how misleading and manipulative you may think the woman is in such a circumstance your only option, and your ethical responsibility is to STOP period. This has never happened to me and I'm sure I might feel very frustrated and even used in such a circumstance but there just may be reasons one has not considered when a woman decides to withdraw her consent to the sex act. At that point no matter the reason it is non consentual and in your own self interest and out of respect for her wishes you had best comply or face the consequences. Yes there are manipulative even emotionally unbalnced people in the world and you simply have to be prepared to deal with it.
"Can anyone say that women might make false allegations without people getting upset about real rape victims?"
This is an emotionally charged issue. If you have ever known a woman who was "a real rape victim" especially someone you knew well, respected and valued in your life perhaps you would more fully understand why some people "get upset" over this issue.
Again I understand the frustration when the point is to present the other side of the issue and perhaps to some extent it does become a numbers game. Yes the falsely accused suffer greatly and there is not an easy answer for their plight but I would submit far more women have their lives damaged if not nearly destroyed by being raped sometimes very brutally. Some end up being homicide victims in the process for which there can never be a way to right the wrong.
You see, I know a woman who was raped. She is someone I have known for over twenty years. She's intelligent, articulate, well educated, artistically and athletically gifted. More important than that she is warm friendly and as good and decent a person as anyone could expect to ever know. She did not ask for this, did not provoke or invite it in any way. Aside from the obvious consequences of rape she acquired herpes from the perpetrator.
I remember when she first told me of this and how I was absolutely stunned. I was never so at a loss for words. It seemed as if there was nothing I could say or do that would even remotely be adequate to comfort her. I feel as if I
utterly failed her in that moment and told her so shortly afterwards promising that I would try never to fail her in that way again. Yes she is precious to me in a way that I could never adequately convey in words, perhaps my best friend. So if there is a bit of bias on my part I decidely plead guilty.
However I stick by my premise that rape far more afflicts and damages women's lives than the lives of the falsely accused as tragic as that may be in its own right.
Finally as far as I can tell from previous posts to this thread it is NOT being stated that anyone bringing charges CANNOT be under suspicion. The investigative process has to play out and the accuser needs to be protected in the event that her accusation proves to be true. Yes there are potentionally damaging consequences for the falsely accused and I have addressed that earlier in this post. It is a complicated issue and there are simply no easy well defined answers in many cases.
-- Modified on 9/7/2003 11:43:36 PM
THE CORRECT LINK FOR WOLF! - WOLF!: False charges of rape often a call for help .
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/733627/posts