I've been reading some of the reviews looking for the right provider for me. I have found her! I've noticed one provider who is apparently one of the best in the business ... very professional, a score of 10 in appearance and service by nearly everyone ... truly rave reviews, not all based on the sex, but all at a 10. I can afford her and I will begin the process of meeting her.
Question--
 Why would she, swallow semen (as per the reviews) if that is one of the ways that HIV is delivered into the body? Am I missing something?

That is a bit scary, but I'd like to know whom you're referring to as well.  I'd like to check out her reviews.  TIA

it seems that many if not most of the Adult Film stars who escort swallow. I assume that this is one of the factors that brings the rating from GFE to PSE.

There have been many posts previously relating to almost all forms of STDs, how each is trasmitted, & the liklihood of infection from various forms of activity.  Sorry I don't have the expertise to provide the links to either the discussions or to various scientific studies available on the internet.  Your question, howver, specifically related to the increased chance of a woman becoming HIV infected because of swallowing.  From my understanding (not based on any medical training of any kind) is that the HIV virus cannot survive in the stomach, & that if infection were to occur from BBBJ it would have to be by entering the bloodstream through some type of access in the mouth (such as bleeding gums, etc).  Assuming that is the case, whether it's swallowed or spit out would have no bearing on the risk factor.  But the bottom line is do what you're comfortable with...if you're going to be worried about it (or anything else) you won't be able to enjoy the experience.

There is a post somewhere by an MD (he says, anyway) that swallowing is safer than spitting because in spitting she will fill the whole mouth and if there are any cuts etc, it will touch on them whereas swallowing sends it into the stomach where the natural acids quickly kill everything.  Hey, what do I know.

In any case, HIV transmission through oral sex is extremely rare, and in pretty much every instance where that was the method of transmittal, it was believed to have occurred through the bloodstream, (for example, through bleeding gums) rather than through the stomach - The acids in the stomach are known to create an inhospitable environment for the HIV virus.  So, once the semen is in the mouth, it doesn't appear that there is any additional statistical risk of HIV transmission caused by the act of swallowing it.

There are special cells called Langerhands C3 cells (NOT the Islets of Langerhans in the Pancreas).   These Langerhans CD4 cells are a portal of entry for HIV and have been described as literally "pulling the virus into the body."  These particular cells are closer to the surface deeper in the throat.

There have been many many cases of HIV Infection from Deep Throating and Swallowing.  8% of all HIV infections are attributed to BBBJ.  People who have NOT engaged in any kind of anal, only BBBJs are becoming infected with HIV at high enough rate to scare me from doing it.  People who think its rare or cannot happen to them are either ignorant of the facts or in denial.  It only takes once and then you are passing it to others before you even know you have been infected.  The more partners you have, the greater the chances that you will become infected at some point in time.

Keep in mind that a provider can become infected with Gonorrhea or Chlamydia in her throat and pass that infection on too.
So there is more to worry about than just HIV.


Talisa


-- Modified on 4/27/2002 3:16:08 AM

Why she would choose to, I don't know... but although there is risk involved with that, it is still *lower risk*...

Oral sex (mouth-penis, mouth-vagina): The mouth is an inhospitable environment for HIV (in semen, vaginal fluid or blood), meaning the risk of HIV transmission through the throat, gums, and oral membranes is lower than through vaginal or anal membranes. There are however, documented cases where HIV was transmitted orally, so we can't say that getting HIV-infected semen, vaginal fluid or blood in the mouth is without risk.
http://www.sfaf.org/aids101/transmission.html

Hugs*
Nicole

I agree that this practice is more prevalent among porn stars who are participating in the Hobby.  Nevertheless, this seems shortsighted as preformers in porn are more and more frequently asked to provide STD tests whereas clients are not.  This makes the risk factor much higher in a Hobby activity than in making a porn film.

I have read this question and thread with great curiousity and professional interest.  I am a medical professional working in HIV
clinical research (no lie!! no kidding!!), and the level of hysteria, misunderstanding, misinformation and fear never ceases to amaze me.

FIRST: PRACTICE SAFE SEX!  There is no cure for HIV, and there probably won't be one for at least the forseeable future.  Please understand that although there have not been any high-profile AIDS deaths lately (like Rock Hudson or Freddie Mercury), many people still die of AIDS every day.  You just don't hear about them because usually if a cause of death is given, it will usually be a secondary cause such as cancer.  Don't forget that AIDS in itself is not a "disease" per se, but rather a condition that breaks down the body's immune system, making it vulnerable to other diseases.

SECOND: I read Talisa's comments with great dismay; this is exactly the type of misinformation and hsyteria I'm talking about.  If you were to actually go to the link to the CDC that Talisa provided, you would find that the study she's quoted was conducted on gay men, not straight men and women, and the "highlights" that she cherry-picked from the page are a perfect example of how misconceptions and hysteria take hold; people "hear" only what they want to.  Now, please understand that I am in no way suggesting that anyone perform any sexual act that they are uncomfortable with, for whatever the reason.  The cold hard fact, though, and the research and clinical interviews with thousands of subjects over the years will bear this out: It is impossible to determine that a person became HIV-infected solely through oral sex and swallowing semen, because there is no one, I repeat, NO ONE, male or female, straight or gay, who can say that they have honestly and truthfully limited themselves to oral sex and have never, NEVER, taken part in anal or vaginal sex, or done IV drugs, all activities that have a much higher disease transmission rate.  Sorry, but that's the truth. The risk of HIV transmission is infinitely higher from taking it up the keister unprotected EVEN ONCE.  Which, BTW, is why I have to wonder at the increasing willingness of female porn stars to take part in these "anal gangbang" movies.

THIRD: Talisa also mentioned "special cells called Langerhands C3 cells" that have been described as literally "pulling the virus into the body."  Talisa is correct, but not in the context she used.  Again, this is how false or incorrect information spreads.  CD3 and CD4 cells (also known as "T-cells") are white blood cells whose biological function is to attack all invaders, such as viruses and bacteria. These T-cells are the immune system's "warriors", and everyone has them.  T-cells live in the bloodstream and circulate throughout the entire body, along with all the other white cells, red cells, platelets, etc.  However, they DO NOT live and congregate "in the back of the throat", as Talisa suggested, like taxicabs at an airport, waiting to pick up the HIV passenger arriving by Semen Airways!!  (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one!)    HIV progresses into full-blown AIDS when the virus destroys enough T-cells to mortally weaken the immune system, and allow the introduction of opportunistic infections.

FOURTH: HIV is a very fragile virus, and must be introduced immediately into the bloodstream for it to survive and multiply.  This is why anal sex and IV drug use are the primary routes of infection, with vaginal sex coming in a weak third.  Rough, hard and unlubricated anal and vaginal sex will cause tiny tears in the lining of the anus or vagina, allowing the introduction of the virus by semen directly into the bloodstream.  Think of how medical suppositories work, by quickly introducing medication into the blood vessel-rich anal lining.  The same with IV drug use; sharing a needle that has been used by an HIV-infected person can directly introduce small amounts of that person's blood that has been trapped in the needle directly into your own bloodstream.  The acids and digestive juices present in the stomach kill the virus immediately.  One cannot become infected by semen "on the way down" into the stomach.

Am I telling you all this just to get the girls to swallow?  Definitely not!!!  What I am trying to point out, though, besides providing a little education, is that, statistically speaking, the possibility that a woman, who has never had unprotected anal sex or used IV drugs herself, will have some type of open sores or contusions in her mouth on that particular day and swallow the semen of a straight, non-IV drug using man who has never had anal sex, and still contract the HIV virus is too small to calculate.

Are there still risks and dangers present from other STIs?  Yes, of course.  I just feel that there is a need  to clarify many of the misconceptions of some of the others on this board.  Thanks for listening.

Good info but I worry about your assumptions:

"a woman, who has never had unprotected anal sex or used IV
drugs herself, will have some type of open sores or contusions in her mouth on that particular day and swallow the semen of a straight, non-IV drug using man who has never had anal sex, and still contract the HIV virus is too small to calculate."

Yeah, ok so maybe neither person has a cold sore or bleeding gums that day. How do we know she's never had unprotected anal or vaginal sex with a boyfriend or used IV drugs in her personal life? How do we know the male hasn't either? I've seen reviews of providers who are providing anal sex then whipping off the condom and guzzling down cum than going back for seconds. Seems risky to me. Also, I notice quite a significant number of men are visiting female providers and also TS "girls" as well which consists of (no matter what fancy name you put on it) engaging in anal sex with gay male prostitutes. Whoa, that seems pretty high risk to me. Also quite a signifiant number of hobbyists also see street girls, a significant proportion of whom are IV drug users, either past or present.

I know condoms aren't fun, it always feels better bareback but why is it so important for the lady to swallow? Why would a provider risk ANY type of infection by multiple cum cocktails from strangers on a daily basis?

You've made many valid points, but in making them, you're also reinforcing the point that I was trying to get across: there are many other extremely high-risk types of behavior that are much more likely to expose one to HIV infection than the simple swallowing of cum.  Which again, to reinforce my earlier message, one should not do in any circumstances if it makes you feel uncomfortable.  In other words, those out there who are afraid of HIV infection by swallowing should realize that on the grand list of risk factors, it's pretty low, if not impossible to quantify.  For a person to believe that he or she could become HIV-infected SOLELY by performing oral sex is misguided.  And truly, men, the coldest, hardest fact of all is that if you're receiving a hummer from your favorite provider, 99% of any possible risk is hers, not yours.

Of course, as you point out, many of us, hobbyists and providers alike, have all kinds of skeletons in the closet as far as past behaviors go.  This can be a high risk hobby and profession, and those who indulge in it should understand that there may be a day of reckoning in the future, as there are many other STDs out there besides HIV to contend with, many of which can have serious effects on one's health.  But, like the take-chances daredevil teenagers who think that they're immortal, most hobbyists are interested only in the score, and not the later consequences.  Most providers are blinded to possible danger by the money signs lighting up their eyes.

It's human nature.

I know the study you are speaking of and read it myself.  It was a study of homosexual men and they even say in the notes of the study that they are not 100% sure that those men got HIV via oral sex alone. They also do not say whether or not the men swallowed, spit, or simply had the guy they were sucking cum elsewhere. Common sense should tell you how impossibly difficult it will be to study human beings and determine with 100% assurance how an STD of this kind was contracted... obviously it can be narrowed down to sexual contact assuming no blood exchange (needles, etc), but what TYPE of sexual contact is a whole 'nother issue. Also 8% is a horrid number.. it was 8 MEN out of something like 1500 gay men. And we are talking gay men who have been living a risky lifestyle for however long, and may have been carrying the disease dormant without knowing it, right?

I'm not trying to minimize the risks involved here, but there are risks in everything we do... condoms or no condoms or whatever else... and it's better to know and study up on it than it is to assume anything about anything.

Some links...
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq19.htm

http://www.sfaf.org/aids101/transmission.html
My favorite link about HIV transmission... very clear and covers all the activities.

Hugs*
Nicole

Really great resource for anyone engaging in oral sex either with men or with women....

Quoted from http://www.sfaf.org/aids101/sexual.html
Oral sex
This is the "grayest" area when discussing risk, and is very controversial.

In general, oral sex is much less risky for HIV transmission than anal or vaginal intercourse.

But to properly assess risk, you must consider whether there is ejaculate, vaginal fluid, or blood present, because there are no absolute answers regarding oral sex and risk.

Risk assessments involve "what substance/fluid" and "where it goes." Remember in HIV Transmission, we said the mouth is a less likely path for transmission because the mucous membranes are more protective than those in the anus/rectum or vagina and because fluids can't remain in the mouth (they are swallowed or spit out). So the "where it goes" part of the risk equation means oral sex is inherently less risky than anal or vaginal sex.

However, you must consider the "what substance/fluid" as well. If there is infected ejaculate, vaginal fluid, or blood present, it increases the risk for infection. Blood contains the highest concentration of virus, followed by semen, vaginal fluid, and a distant last place, pre-seminal fluid.

How much does it increase the risk? We can't say for sure. Certainly, not to the level of risk from ejaculation inside an anus or vagina. And we can definitely say that there are only a few documented cases of HIV in which the only possible source of infection was through oral sex, so the risk is still very low. But it is incorrect to equate the risk of oral sex with ejaculation to the risk of oral sex without.

A person receiving oral sex is generally not at risk, because that person is coming into contact only with saliva. (There is a theoretical risk of transmission if the person performing oral sex had blood in her/his mouth.) Many people find using a condom unacceptable and are practicing oral sex on men without ejaculation. They are coming into contact with pre-cum (pre-ejaculate fluid). There is no conclusive evidence that pre-cum transmits HIV, but some studies suggest that HIV is present in this fluid. Again, go back to the two questions: "Is HIV present?" and "How much HIV is present?" Although HIV may be present in pre-cum, it is in very small amounts, and the mouth is not an easy path for transmission. This means unprotected oral sex without ejaculation is a very low risk activity for HIV transmission.

Performing oral sex on a woman who is menstruating increases the risk because blood has more HIV than vaginal fluid. There is little data on how often HIV is transmitted via oral sex from an infected woman to an uninfected man.

(BTW Talisa I am not trying to argue with YOU or with YOUR choices... I think each of us has to decide what risks we are willing to take each day in our lives and I respect that 100%! I just like to provide as much information as possible, especially since this question comes up so frequently!)

Hugs*
Nicole

in my experience this happens frequently enough to be a valid concern. Over the last few years, I have observed several men (usually 40+) who had blood-tinged semen (hematospermia) and after I calmed their initial panic and assured them this was usually a benign condition, I sent them off with a recommendation for an examination by a urologist. I'm sure I missed a few as I usually have the lights dimmed!

Anyway, all of them turned out to have minor infections easily resolved by antibiotics, and all thanked me profusely for letting them know.

http://www.askmen.com/sports/health/10_mens_health.html

The point is, in addition to this condition in men, menstruating women are also going to have blood in their vaginal fluids naturally at least 4 days out of the month due to their cycles (and toward the beginning or the end of the cycle the blood will be in such small amounts that you might not notice) so one should always take this into account.

I just wonder if being a hobbiest is worth taking the chance..!!