Of the many recent robberies in the Seattle area, which included robberies of ladies AND their clients, why were the perpetrators successful for so long?
***Because everyone was afraid to contact the police.***
The primary reason for fear about contacting the police? They were involved in a criminal activity at the time of the assault. Predators KNOW this is a likely reaction, and that makes sexworkers targets.
Criminalization of sexwork makes workers... well, criminals... Criminals are not respected members of our society. If a socialite is robbed, there is outrage. If a provider is robbed... well, look at the responses even in this thread.
A quote from Gary Ridgeway (if you don't know the name, shame on you! Use Google.):
"I hate most prostitutes. I didn’t want to pay them for sex. I also picked prostitutes as victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed. I knew they would not be reported missing right away, and might never be reported missing."
Because of the criminalization of this industry it is hugely cash-only. Predators also know this, and that makes sexworkers targets.
Because of the criminalization of this industry, many workers are isolated and fear networking with others.
I could go on. But I hope you get my point - yes, always people will be robbed and assaulted. And yes, decriminalizing this industry would make things much safer for everyone involved.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 6:13:02 PM
Just had another great session with a young lady (advertises on BP) whom I visit whenever she comes to town. What a story she has to tell from the last city. She had a session with a guy at noon. Late at night he calls back for another session. He arrives on time and they have their session. As he's dressing, he pulls a gun from his jacket and puts it to her head. Then he opens the door to admit his accomplice. He takes her into the bathroom and has her lay in the tub naked...he tells her that if she comes into the room before they leave, he will kill her. She listens to all the drawers open and other noises and finally comes into the room. They have stolen everything: $$$$. computer, suitcase, books she had with her and even her phone. She was alone naked and broke in a strange town without a dollar or a phone!!!! The strength some ladies have to survive and get by!! And to go on with life and be able to tell the story without tears or asking for help, but even with a comment that bad stuff will catch up to the guy someday.
on the weak. I hope they die a slow and painfull death!
I wouldn't want to visit a weak provider, or visit her twice in one day.
I know right?
If you don't have a gun and your opponent does. You are the loser in this battle, period. My narrow behind would have stayed in the bath tub.
This story is ridiculous. Putting a gun to another persons head? I don't understand this world.
No weapons allowed in my house.
He did come back later the same day and rob the Lady. How many clients vist the same lady more than once in the same day?. Say this was a real event she probably broke many of the rules, that Ladies follow to keep themself safe. We know you can't remove all risk, though you can eliminate the majority of that risk.
I read this guys response as viewing all providers as weak, and as some one to prey upon.
Not necessarily, however nearly every woman is weaker than the average man. So when a man, accompanied by another man, holds a gun to a naked female's head, she is in fact weak in comparison.
I do not view providers as being week, vulnerable to abuse by shitbags, but not weak. Perhaps vulnerable would have been a more appropriate adjective, but you get my point
Many women may be physically weaker than the "average" man, but many women have abilities and knowledge that men don't. A simple self defense course can provide techniques that could have prevented this from happening. First and foremost is DON'T ACT LIKE A VICTIM.
Everyone is vulnerable to abuse by shitbags, but if you make an effort to be aware of your surroundings, that vulnerability decreases by a lot.
Just sayin.......
I do not view providers as being week, vulnerable to abuse by shitbags, but not weak. Perhaps vulnerable would have been a more appropriate adjective, but you get my point
So many women want to get their feet wet and have no damn clue how dangerous it can be if you don't screen. Every single time I have ever heard of an alert, robbery, etc. it is always because of a lack of screening, and I feel very sorry for these women who did not know they could have found help on sites like this. It used to be just for the guys, but the newbie board is full of information for new providers to get. I know when I see new women coming to New Orleans, the vultures jump on them about discounts for reviews, "You won't make any money unless you do this" bs, and I always try and email them to see if I can help in any way. Some respond kindly, whilst others think I am trying to get in their business, but I will take the hit to save one girl from a situation like this.
Many are desperate, addicted to drugs, at the end of their rope financially and feel this is their only choice...yes, many of the girls some of you sleep with are here out of desperation, not out of choice.
These guys don't seem to get it. Even when the girl tells him her story.
How do we know any of this is true?
This could all be fiction, and you are ready to "kick the crap" out of some one.
or maybe she was looking for some sympathy $$$$$$
This is the real story as told to me and I believe her. Is it possible that it's not true? As possible as that everyone is lying all the time. I hope not, and I believe her more than most.
If the story isn't real...then I guess I can turn my anger on the OP for posting such a horrible story.
So either we have a scumbag who mugged a woman...or a poster with a twisted sense of conversation.
Either way.
The OP could be telling the truth, we will never know for sure.
You could go out right now, and in less then ten minutes you could find some one being robbed with a weapon.
Do you wear your cape in public? 
in jet engine's and revolving doors...too dangerous. Plus, I don't do drag...lol I did however stop a mugging once. 2 dirt bags flipping over a drunk guy who didn't speak English. Threw one guy into the other...I consider it a god day for me. 
)
Maybe the girl did fib...but really, isn't it just the thought. The story mentioned may not have happened to that girl...the OP may not have even seen any providers recently...but it doesn't make the reality of it any less real.
I hear too many times about stolen lap tops, phones, and shorted envelopes or even missing after the session envelopes for them to all be lies. To think that some guys wouldn't pull something like this on an escort is far from disbelief.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 12:39:49 AM
Yes.Yes I do.
*walks sensously into the sunset, cape billowing. The wind whispers "justice..."*
You could go out right now, and in less then ten minutes you could find some one being robbed with a weapon.
Do you wear your cape in public?
some people say dumb shit, really. wow.
well on that note...
I met a young Lady a long time ago, well a little more than decade ago who worked on the street who ended up being murdered by a serial killer.
You sound like a dumb shit.
I completely understand how you feel. I don't take my anger out that way, but I understand seeing how well this lone girl takes what would devastate most so well, after bad people hurt them.
So shocking two men with a gun and one women.
-- Modified on 12/3/2012 10:41:11 PM
But how often do you have a session with a lady at noon and then call back to schedule another later that day? And this accomplice just happened to be at the door at the perfect time? When most in this business don't like to hang out and be conspicuous for 10 seconds? And the fact that you make a point to say he arrived on time for his 2nd session is curious. It's not important. I'm as anal as the day is long and I wouldn't have mentioned that.
Do you think she screened Will?
How well do most young BP providers screen. Of course she should be more careful....but
I wouldn't wish what happened to her on anyone but the bottom line is she got a relatively cheap lesson in the wrong way to work as an escort. I hope she learned from it but, if she saw you the next day with no screening, I guess she didn't.
Relying on luck for screening is dangerous. I've heard more than one girl say over the years that there are much worse things than having a cop show up in your room...
If the government would legalize this. Then there would be no more pimps robbing girls and clients. And if a girl is robbed she can call the police and they will actually help her. Another thing. If this is legalized the government could collect income tax and make money. Legalizing prostitution would help everyone. it would make it safer for providers and clients. It would also help get rid of evil pimps, and the bad clients. Since bad clients and pimps can be reported without any worry of trouble or shame.
I've been a life long advocate of legalizing prostitution.
Many pay their taxes. While post providers are always worrying about a misdemeanor prostitution arrest, they ignore the larger threats of the many Federal agencies that can come after them.
Pimps, robberies, parasites and violence wouldn't go away if legalization.
Of the many recent robberies in the Seattle area, which included robberies of ladies AND their clients, why were the perpetrators successful for so long?
***Because everyone was afraid to contact the police.***
The primary reason for fear about contacting the police? They were involved in a criminal activity at the time of the assault. Predators KNOW this is a likely reaction, and that makes sexworkers targets.
Criminalization of sexwork makes workers... well, criminals... Criminals are not respected members of our society. If a socialite is robbed, there is outrage. If a provider is robbed... well, look at the responses even in this thread.
A quote from Gary Ridgeway (if you don't know the name, shame on you! Use Google.):
"I hate most prostitutes. I didn’t want to pay them for sex. I also picked prostitutes as victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed. I knew they would not be reported missing right away, and might never be reported missing."
Because of the criminalization of this industry it is hugely cash-only. Predators also know this, and that makes sexworkers targets.
Because of the criminalization of this industry, many workers are isolated and fear networking with others.
I could go on. But I hope you get my point - yes, always people will be robbed and assaulted. And yes, decriminalizing this industry would make things much safer for everyone involved.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 6:13:02 PM
This guy and his accomplice will run into the wrong person sooner or later.
Stories like these make people emotional, but keep your heads and remember these things and worse happen in the real world. One must be objective to look at the problem and be open to new answers. Holding on to the old must be reexamined analytically.
She meets a guy in my area. The guy entice her to go to his town, and he promises good business. She goes with him. When she arrives, the guy puts her in a hotel but she pays hotel with her money. Problem is she does not have a photo ID and so the guy is the one registered at the hotel. He then takes her cash and she can't go nowhere without money. I offered to wire money to her via Western Union, but she cannot get it, because she has no ID - no ID to show to Western Union. So she's stuck - this guy has her imprisoned. She has no ID because her ID expired and she's afraid to renew it, because she's hiding from the law from a previous arrest for prostitution which she failed to show in court. I communicate with her, but she's too afraid to get away from the grip of this guy. She can't afford to sleep outside, because it's freezing weather now. I'm still finding a solution and not giving up. I told her to just bolt and ask any stranger for money. With $65 bucks, she can board a train home. She's just plain scared.
When you wire it, you put down a secret question and answer, and she needs the answer to receive the money. People do it all the time. It's very simple, and you could have found that out if you asked WU, if you really want to help her.
Now this is hindsight, but WTF was she thinking going to another town with someone she doesn't know? Sounds like she just got herself a pimp. Sounds like she is not too bright. And how do you know the pimp wannabe is not going to take the money you send her also? If you want to play Captain Save a Ho, why don't you just drive to the other town and rescue her?
-- Modified on 12/3/2012 10:02:46 PM
Well, It's only 1 time that I have send $ thru WU and it was a long time ago (not very familiar with the process), so I don't know about that secret password. And I did ask her about me sending thru WU, and she said she can't receive because she has no ID. So, those words came from her, not me. But now that I know, Thanks - I will communicate that with her.
Yes, she admits she was very stupid to do it, but she's about 21-22 yrs old.
The town is like 5 hours away, and I'm a married man - what do u think my wife will say if I'm gone that long.
bein in a hotel rom nder anothers name n not havn a photo id! aaaagh, i got myself in that pickle before, and it ended very very badly for ME!
poor thing, nice a u to help her. 111
There is something that is particularly wrong about taking advantage of a person who is defenseless and just trying to make a living.
Most women I know didn't come to the point of doing this as a first choice. That doesn't mean that it didn't become a somewhat enjoyable and profitable venture, but most women don't wake up one day and say, "I want to be a courtesan or a provider."
And so it goes to follow that many of these women are already doing this under some form of emotional duress and unwillingness--or because they just HAVE to.
To kick a person when she is down is just despicable...the lowest of the low.
shelters for women and children, mass rehab, which pays for people to go back school. um, do you feel bad for drug dealers when they get murdered n robbed too?
we all know goin into this we could die tomorro. to live life to fullest.
just like any crim inal .
your taking home huge score, but there are repurcussions, your personal life may suffer, you may have issues finding love starting a family being stable in general.
every woman may get "caught up in the life"
this IS u nfortunate big time,
but then again its unfortunate when a pot dealer goes away for 20 years whom has a 9-5 is non violent a wife n kids .
and is givin same sentence as a rapist murderer or child molester.
that also sux.
but um, last i checke this is one those high rewaRD EASY WAY OUT JOBS. AND TRUST N BELIEF EVERY LADY DOING IT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION EACH TIME SHE OPENS THE DOOR IT COULD BE HER LAST.
references r great . but some of our most notoriuos serial killers were also loved by neighbors n friends handsome n unsuspecting,
every time u open the door u gotta take into consideration it could be the last time u see your dog your apt, your family, n you could either a.die. or b get arrested.
and if u r the type to react fast with out thinking first n dare struggle, your facin 5-7 min for assualting an officer.
thats nice u have symathy for us, but thats the ria we take to make a weeks check in an hour.,
thier are no easy way outs, but some us choose to ake the risks, maybe we like the thrill mayb e we r addicted to the fast money,
thats why havn arevolvin door is always bad in EVENT your bein cased ,by some robbers.
i dont know if it helps me any but i insist on doin low volume n good luck even i was bein cased n they broke in they be disapointed, i dont eer have large amount money at one time,
not sayin this protects me from bein vistom a casing n robbery it culd happen to ay ne, but staytin in a room n havn 10 guys in a day any criminal cld do the math how much she has in thier, and it be a good score to hit that hotel room.
that does suck, but i think we all know goin in to this we are against the odds basicaly. n enjoy each min u have, ..............................
I definetly sprung for the cab to the atm machine or do a "drop off " n i d have a reliable person hold the cash so if i were pinched or robbed i at least have a few grand to fall back on.
maybe she just stayed in same room with the envelope after days of workin n didnt consider that she may bbein cased, and that economy is bad and thier are freakin pizza delivery men being murdered for dam pizzas at this stage in time out here. so,
theres also alot of escorts and dancers, that run game on clients n have these shpeals they tell a to hustle u.
this one dancer i knew had this one poor old guy comin in with applications n she d cry n say she wants a job, shed look at me n roll her eyes while they talked alot, i guess he was givin her thoudsands, she went home and smoked crack with al the "HELP" HE WAS OFFERING. EVERY NIGHT.
ITS TOO BAD BUT IN THIS DAY N AGE I WOULDNT JUMP TO A. BELIEV OR B. FEEL BAD/ WE KNOW WHAT WE R GETTN INTO, AND ITS ART OF THIS JOB, YES U R GONNA BE A TARGET FOR MURDER, ROBBERY AND ARREST. IF WE DONT WANNA ADMIT THIS OR IF I DONT WANNA THEN I SHOULD GO WORK 9-5. AND LEAVE THE EASY MONEY LIFE BEHIND,
i myself admit i have taken advantage of alot of programs they offer to help u f u dont want this life anymore, n they do have them, alot of them, sooooo.
no ones really stuck here , its a choise n those are our risks if we want the easy way out.....
As you make this personal and real, it makes perfect sense. It must ring true to many.
I'm not so certain just how generous are some of those programs.
I believe many if not most go into this business seeing only the dollars and only later the risk.
The nature of fear and anxiety is to dissipate the longer and more often the stressor (activity) is continued, Therefore, the impending doom at the other side of the door deters less and less.
You put a lot of self blame on shoulders you claim should know better, but they're human and feel before they can see and then are too overwhelmed to take in a real picture.
You make a lot of good points, but you have no real answers.
Your "Live for today for tomorrow you may die" philosophy just creates a never ending non pro active cycle.
No offense, but I'm very glad you wrote this.
I don't mean to say it could not happen & I know ladies that have been robbed (cash taken from their pocket book while they were in the bathrrom.) Most every area has women's shelters... hotel does not want the publicity... she could enlist their help or just walk out the door. She gets some clothes, a meal & arranges transportation home... they put her on a bus.
Alternatively, this is a variation of the internet scam... I'm stuck in a foreign country! The last one said they were in London & rather than wiring money, I said I'd send the money to my cousin who works in a bank & they just had to show up!
My understanding is that the OP stated the lady was not sharing this as a sob story, or asking for help. She had already made her way to another city and was just sharing her experience in the last. Why the cynicism?
We just had a string of similar assaults here in Seattle. A string of them, not a one-off.
This is actually, unfortunately, common.
And in this one thread there is doubt about the truthfulness of the story, questioning the details of the experience, blaming the lady for her (possible) lack of screening, and even another lady saying that we should just expect this kinda' shit to happen.
I am tempted to pull out my soap box, but will go sit my ass speechless in a corner...
A very timely link below regarding the upcoming December 17th,
International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers
When nothing changes, nothing changes. "face palm, rolls eyes, shakes head"
In most every case of robbery or assault the guy was NOT a well respected hobbyist. I am not saying that can't happen because even the good ones can go bad, but gimme a damn break. You take a last minute call at 2 a.m. and just trust the guy is legit, and come back and show me the results. Most of the women in these cases are not educated on how this business works or how to stay safe. When someone does reach out to them and try and offer help, they get an attitude. In over 7 years running an agency or working myself, I have never been physically assaulted or robbed, nor have any of the women I know personally. Luck? I doubt it.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 7:09:27 PM
This thread is just two steps away from someone responding to a rape allegation by questioning what the lady was wearing, or why she was in "that part of town" at such a late hour, or why she decided to accept a ride home from a stranger.
Regardless of if there is tooth and nail screening, or none at all - the ONLY person responsible for this crime is the perpetrator. PERIOD.
"When someone does reach out to them and try and offer help, they get an attitude."
I've gotten lazy though I used to make a concerted effort to reach out to new ladies, as well as those traveling to my area. I actually got many more thank you's for the information that I've shared than I've gotten attitude, and I've made some excellent friends. My suspicion about most of the exceptions is that it was often a pimp replying in lieu of the lady herself.
In my ten years, I've never been assaulted or robbed either, though I have been shorted. However I do know a couple ladies who did have problems with screened and verified gents (via references, and also identity screening.) Some assaults, some stalkings, and of course donation shortings. I'm happy that you have not had any issues, and hope it stays that way! That said, don't think that screening is a cure-all...
I doubt they know the facts of what happened. All any of us can do is guess at this point. Before you accuse me of doing something, learn to fkin read what I said, because I said nothing about her NOT screening, but you're very naive to assume that is not a possibility. Had that been me, this guy would be in jail right now because I would have called the damn cops with no problem!
I used that in the general sense because that is 90 percent of the reason for alert threads on other boards. I also said that many women this shit happens to are very new and don't know how the business works...that is just a FACT! If you want to live with your head in the clouds thinking that what others are saying is not a possibility, go right ahead. Then, when the next thread of this nature pops up, it will be the very same reasons why it happened. NO, it is NEVER all on the provider when something like this happens, but many steps can be taken to PREVENT it!
So rather than turn a blind eye to the facts, I addressed them so they can help the next person. "Poor me" does not save your life honey...reality does. Good thing this guy (the OP) gave a shit, because it could have been much worse. Don't sit here and tell me I am blaming her for shit, because you're showing your ignorance. I did not bother reading all of the replies in this thread, but I read mine and I did nothing of the sort.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 9:49:29 PM
No, we don't know the facts in this case. Yet several posters have made assumptions about the ladies screening. Yes, predators tend to favor the new ladies and those on sites such as BP, as they know the ladies are new, likely uninformed, unconnected, and usually do not screen.
Yep. I screen. I'm a vocal advocate for screening. Because I KNOW it helps. (Screening and security information are some of the things I have tried to share with many ladies over the years.) So how do you get: "If you want to live with your head in the clouds thinking that what others are saying is not a possibility, go right ahead." How about if you take your own advice and "learn to fkin read what I said"?
My point stands - the ONLY person responsible for this attack is the perpetrator.
PERIOD.
My post was addressed at the collection of responses here, not you personally. You're the one who decided that I was talking about you, so re-reading your replies - yes, your words fall into the tenor and tone and theme of what I was pissed off about in this thread. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, why would you give a fuck? Please retract those claws.
I enjoy reading your posts, London. I'm mostly a lurker anymore, and tend to only speak up when something is really important to me. This topic is.
Peace!
are blaming her," so no, I did not pull it out of my ass. You flat out accused me of blaming her, when others were the ones being more vocal about it. So, my reading comprehension is just fine..yours is questionable. Then you said the shit again. You can bet your ass if I wanted to say the bitch was stupid and did not screen, that's what I would say with no problem. Others seem to have done that for me though, so direct your shit to them. Fact is, YOU don't know what happened and even the damn OP said she probably did not screen lol. Shocker. Does stupidity warrant such events? Hell no, but stop acting like reality does not exist.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 10:02:39 PM
Originally, no.
Questioning if she screened, to me, is no different than the example I gave of asking why a rape victim would accept a ride home from a stranger. Hell, it's EXACTLY the same. Don't we all know better? Isn't that asking for trouble?
My best friend in the 6th and 7th grade accepted a ride home from a stranger.
He beat her bloody and knocked out most of her front teeth, and who knows what else.
She became depressed and suicidal.
What did everyone at school have to say about it? What did I hear from even the adults around me?
"What was she doing out so late, alone?"
"Why was she in that part of town?"
"What was she thinking taking a ride from a stranger?"
I guess she was a stupid bitch too, huh?
Yeah, there are things that she could have done differently that would not have put her where she was, with whom she was. Yep, she made a bad decision. Same as a lady who invites any ya-hoo on over to her incall. It doesn't fucking matter. People are attacked on the street, in their own homes, while watching BatMan in Colorado...
Questioning how and why she did what she did (especially since she is not here participating in the conversation) is useless, pointless, and deflects the blame away from the actual perpetrator.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 7:08:19 PM
I deal with facts, not bs. Had she screened him properly the chances of this happening are very slim...not impossible, but slim. NO ONE deserves this to happen to them regardless of how green they are, but this shit goes on every damn day and for the very same reasons. If you truly care, maybe do a blog or some support group for new providers and teach them safeguards like many of us have already tried to do. Pretending she played no part in this outcome is not going to help her or the next girl, though I do think there are better ways of pointing those things out rather than stoning her for a possible mistake.
I'm sorry I jumped on you, because you obviously have a passion and COMPASSION for these types of situations, but it really gets old beating a dead horse. Try as we all might, women do not listen to the advice they are given. They see dollar signs, are desperate at times, or just don't much think. It is not going to stop just because we want to pretend it's all ok. If even my own child were ever hurt, I would kill the fker who attempted it, but I would also have to address the things she might have done to allow it. If I get killed tomorrow in this business guess what...would not have happened if I were not here to begin with.
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 10:12:32 PM
I regularly do networking events for providers.
I also volunteer for the Sexworkers Outreach Project, being a main coordinator in my local area for the past few years.
I do a sporadic have a mailer for local ladies informing them of upcoming events and opportunities.
Uh, and I post a lot of this information on my local boards too.
You seem to care. I hope you walk your talk.
(And thank you for editing out the S.B comment on your post. It was extremely offensive to me.)
xo,
S
-- Modified on 12/4/2012 7:15:15 PM
Some things don't ever change on a board..
Sounds like to me those ASSHOLES sees touring ladies on bp bc they're easy targets. He gets the appt., sees her, scans the hotel, scans her ROOM!, the exits, cross roads. Dur. the appt. he acts like a nice guy, she trusts him. Later, calls her and says hey I really had a great time I'd like to see you again..she's like yeah.. great, come over! This time he brings in his partner in crime and she got a dose of life kicking her in the ass. T
What IF the lady was telling the truth? Is the compassion we show? She wasn't asking for anything so WTF?
btw.. this is Caroline..yeah me.. the B$(*@! is back.
