Hey I'm not judging... whatever floats your boat.

I'm just curious though. I read this review from a guy who took great pleasure in cumming in a girls hair. He joked that she was not happy about it. No SHIT? I wouldn't be happy either.

So I read some of his other reviews and it appears that this is what the guy is all about. He treats the providers like shit and get's off on cumming on their face.

Anybody want to take a crack at explaining where the eroticism is in all that? Like I said, I ain't judging, just want to understand.

The notion of getting off on treating a lady like shit just is not within my experience. If anything, it'd make be feel uncomfortable.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, well, some of us LIKE that kinda thing and thus it isn't treating us like shit at all. Plus, some people like being treated "like shit," in a safe, sane, consensual context.  But everyone is different and individual boundaries should always be respected.  

Then again some degree of this might just be timing... ie: vs cumming in her mouth he just has time to pull out and...

But truly, I think it looks so pretty...and it is sooooooooooooooooooo hot, to *me*.  GIMME.  Just don't get it in my eyes!!!!

Recently I got fucked in a pool, and he came in my hair to avoid getting cum in the pool... that was very hot.  And yes, definitely playing on my natural submissive nature. A woman who is not submissive prolly woulda hated that.. tho there's a playful element to it also.

So much of this depends, too, on the attitudes with it... someone who really hates women I would not enjoy doing this with, and if the person you describe is that way... UGH.  There's a real difference between someone having erotic fun and someone being a mysoginist, and I'm not good at putting it into words, but I do know it when I see it.

So anyways... you wouldn't cum on my face even if I begged? *blink* I'm just curious...

*smooch*
Tamara

...I thought you referring to the type I get once a month at the spa to keep my face clean, fresh, and girlishly youthful.

-- Modified on 9/19/2005 3:26:37 PM

Some women like it, some don't, some demand it, some will let you do it but hate it, some won't let you even think about doing it - it runs the whole gambit.

The psychology of the deed is what interests me.  I get nothing out of facials.  To me it's a waste of semen.  I like women who will allow CIM, and find swallowing a huge turn-on.  However, I don't demand it.

Many guys do this as it gives them a power-trip.  They are in charge.  It is a low-grade way of demeaning their sexual partner.  To me these are some sick dudes.  Some guys just find it sexy.

To each their own, I guess.

between (1) treating a person like shit and (2) cumming in their hair.  Seems to me that there's no accounting for taste, and cum in hair is a problem that can be solved by shampoo - who knows, another person might do it in a way that could melt you.

I suspect there is no explaining.   1st, there's always people moren 2 standard deviations from the norm, and 2nd, who knows where the norm is?

That said, there are stereotypical roles that are historically and statistically defined - me Tarzan, you Jane.  Me fight gorilla for remote control or anything else, leave toilet seat up, love 'em & leave 'em.  You nag about petty ass details like white picket fence, only fight about title to me, want postcoital talk.

So you see a certain amount of eroticism in playing the role itself.   Eg, everybody has a monster cock forcing your tiny petals apart, even if we all know it's one size fits all.  It's relationships.   The very existence of this board suggests that men are generally in one sort of role, and women in another.  I really doubt that there are clearcut lines in these things.

As you must know, there is a sizable BDSM community, and that really highlights the question of gender roles and what is voluntary.   I really don't know a lot about it, but I will say that most women I've known get off on (a) being pinned down, and (b) cheerful swat on the ass.  You can find advertisements from the 50s that show men turning women over their knees - don't tell me that's not sexual.

Sexual roles and relationships go to the core of human relationships, even life itself.   And I doubt that shrinks know anything more about it than you & I, but that's another discussion.

It's a pretty heavy psychological topic for this forum but suffice to say it is mostly about degradation and control.  Every man has it in him and this is to say it all depends on how much energy they have about acting on it.  

When they are doing this to you in their mind they are not really doing it to you as much as they are doing it to other female figures in their life: wife, mother, boss, third grade teacher, old girlfriends.  You just happen to be the one getting sticky.

To the same extent performing Anal is down the same road.  We used to think the worst thing you could do was come on a womans face, then the porn industry came along and raised the bar.  As Adam Carolla so eloquently put it:
"What is the ultimate control? The buttlove. When your penis is in someone's ass, the answer to every question is 'yes.'"

And yes I know all the women will chime in with "well I enjoy it" yes there are those that enjoy it no doubt.  Just as there are people who enjoy being hung from their skin with hooks.  

But of course we cannot judge, impossible to judge.

So should you stop this practice becasue it is degrating to you?  Hell no!  If you do that there will be a office shooting every other day in this country.  If you like it or can tolerate it please continue to do it, it makes us VERY happy.

Sorry Trustno, I thought you were a provider who asked this question, I did not mean "You" when I wrote it, substitute "Female Provider"



-- Modified on 9/19/2005 5:15:32 PM

"I like women who will allow CIM, and find swallowing a huge turn-on."

And you do not think there is some agressive energy behind that either?  Here is another Adam Carolla quote for you as well:

Talking to a female caller whose boyfriend likes her to swallow when she gives him oral sex:

ADAM: But I mean, does he like you to swallow it, or does he like you just not to stop when he's having an orgasm?
CALLER: Um, he prefers that I swallow.
ADAM: Ooh. I dunno if I trust that guy completely.
DREW: It's a little bit of an aggressive move, isn't it?
CALLER: I mean, don't get me wrong, he doesn't get upset, but it turns him on, and he really likes it. And I like him that much, so I'm willing to do it.
ADAM: Well, I'm all right with it. But see, I love women, so I look at them more as semen mules. They need to transport my semen into the toilet for me. You see what I'm saying?
DREW: Yeah, because they're doing you a function, a service.
ADAM: Yeah. They're carrying it from the bedroom into the toilet. But I don't need them to ingest it, I just need them to mule it into the bathroom so that I don't have to deal with it.
CALLER: Okay.
ADAM: All right, baby? That's me, I'm a romantic. I'm old-fashioned. I like a semen mule. My father and my grandfather were both that way. My father married a semen mule, you know, and it was his wish that I married a semen mule as well. It's tradition, it's old-fashioned, it's a little bit corny, but that's just the way the Carollas are.

...shot" in the girl's face, in her hair, on her breasts, etc., because they can't get a camera angle INSIDE HER.  I'm guessing that the whole facials thing started sometime during the post-"Deep Throat" '70s, when porn became commercially accessible, and that it wasn't such a big deal before.  Just a guess, though.  Hafta talk to someone who was a provider during the '6-s and '50s to get the REAL lowdown.

One of my more memorable dates was when the provider slowly worked me toward orgasm, then announced that she wanted me to cum all over her face. When she said that, she had me totally under her spell (well, she usually did anyway.)

I upped the ante by licking my cum off her face, which surprised and excited her in turn.

As Tamara points out, it can (and should) be all about having erotic fun, and arousing your lover to the next level.

I like porn as much as the next guy, but I have never been turned on by facials.  And it is not something that I have ever done or been interested in doing.   To me this business should be about fantasy lovemaking.   I do not like to demean women, and while I may not judge others in this hobby, I still believe that that is why those who enjoy it are doing it.

It's enjoyable to feel the release on one's face or chest, but also in other places!!  Agree with staying away from the mysoginist types, sticking with those who are just playful....

Its fun to watch the guy come standing up while I am kneeling. It goes both ways though, because I like to sit on a guy's face and come while making him choke on my nice luscious orchid blossom. I also like to have a girl suck my strap on while I pull her hair. Is it demeaning? Maybe to a civvie, but when the door is shut and nobody is really hurt, omg is it hot. Its all about the play of power and the forbidden. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Best part of DATY.  Okay, so it has never really happened to me but I'm sure I would enjoy it.

It is a interesting discussion to see just how much main stream porn contributes to our sexual norms.  When I was growing up before internet porn if you could get a girl to even touch your member you were the hero for a week in school, nowadays a 16 year old guy will not go on a third date unless he gets oral from a girl and anal on the fourth date.  

To my generation Playboy magazine was the most valuble thing you could ever lay your hands on, You may spend months trying to search out and think of a scheme to acquire one just to see a naked lady.  For todays youth it is light reading.  In fact I think most kids would think it is a waste of time to look at, too tame.

Cum on her face, not a turn on to me, face it some of us like to kiss the gal as we cum in her, some of us like to kiss and have a thing about our cum getting into our mouths.

Compare this to DATY in the afternoon, how many guys have been in the gals pussy before you had your daty?

Cum on her hair, sheesh is that suppose to be a turn on, oh well guess so to some guys but just don't see it that way.

Spanking on the knees, called OTK in the SMBD life, yeah sexual as hell and if she kicks her legs and cries or begs to stop all the more so.  A power thing, naw as she is as turned on as he is.

I could say tons more about that lifestyle and life in general but Nettie said it all and it is how I feel too.

Live and let live, what you do in your home is your busines, not anyone else's PERIOD.

First, a question:  Do you say he treats her like shit because he cums in her hair, or for other reasons?

Related question: have you ever wondered why a guy would love that a woman swallows his cum?  Have you ever wondered why snowballing has any appeal?  

Maybe none of this is your particular "cup" of sexual enjoyment.  Even if it isn't, eroticism isn't just what you're feeling through your dick at that time.

Why would a guy care what she does with his cum?  Simple.  The visual experience simultaneous to his orgasm will turn him on later-- and lead him to have other, mostly solo, orgasms recalling it.    

So, why does this turn him on?  Thinking about this can feel dangerous for a guy because you realize how important the woman can be at that moment.  In consensual sex, there's so much to the style in which a woman accepts your orgasm.  It's the most intense pleasurable experience of your life.  You associate the pleasure with the sight of ejaculating cum-- what she does to accept it then can become so important.  

If you're cumming inside of her BB it's one thing, but since that's not possible in a provider/client relationship, you see these alternate ways of welcoming your orgasm.  However, even if you are cumming inside her, what she does then, how she looks at you, can be very important.  

It's creating an intense experience with a visual that will echo in your memory and turn you on and get you off long after she's gone.  You may even recall it when you're with other women, and act out the very same scene again.  You might say, the orgasm will echo through life and it changes your behavior.  

I wouldn't too much enjoy cumming in a woman's hair, but I could sure enjoy having her swallow, and snowball after licking it on to her niples, splooging on her tits and nipples, on her belly, on her ass, on her lovely tattoo, or on her feet.
I wasn't always like this.  

But no, I really don't understand the appeal of facials either.    

 

'Specially with encouragement like that!

Yum!

Hugs*
Tamara

That most women could squirt that way... usually you gotta have some pretty intense gspot stuff going on.  The times it's happened with me, it's been so intense I don't think I could've held myself up over someone... yes, that intense!  

But lots and lots of ladies get very very wet to the point you feel like you've  had a facial.  It's happened to me a few dozen times!

Hugs*
Tamara

I guess it boils down to someones limitations and preferences again. I don't understand why some people like CIM.. yet a facial to me is not that big of a deal.. although I am submissive a little by nature so that may have something to do with it. We all have our limit, likes and dislikes... he probably likes to do this beacuse his sig other doesnt and that may be why he hobbies. peace and hugs ... XOXO Eryn

...know!

and i would't have you any other way either!

Excellent observations.  I can't conceive of facials either.  My experience is that many ladies really enjoy watching us orgasm, some even like to come together.  Where my "gift" goes and how it is received is truly the difference between sport fucking and making love.  The really good ones can vary between wanting it on their breasts, mound, tummy, and what they do next. Self-massaging it into where they asked for it, a sensual erotic finger taste to the ultimate, licking you dry. These ladies I see again and again.

And it's one of the more tame requests providers have grown accustomed to hearing, as pornography continues to become more misogynistic, cruel, and violent in nature.  It's very unfortunate that so many men seem to view pornography as a "how-to" manual to sex - I don't think men and women's ideas of what constitutes pleasurable sex have ever been more out-of-sync than right now.

Boys, forget Max Hardcore, bukkake, meatholes.com - if you want your partner or provider to enjoy herself, do her the favor of checking out some of the guides at the link below.

put my dick in her mouth, as you put it.   There is a world of difference between putting your dick in her mouth, and her "making love" to your dick by putting it in her mouth.

Like it or not, that's the truth of it.  A guy is free to reject the misogynistic parts of it, fast forward past them, or just not buy those CD's.  You could take the parts that are hot and leave the parts that cruel.  These movies are market driven, they wouldn't have the misogyny unless guys buy them.    

I'll say though, I don't know that most guys buy them for the misogyny as is perceived.  I think most guys buy them for the hot scenes between the misogynistic ones.  That's what I do, and I hope it's generally true.  

Women have their own version of popular porn: Romance Novels.  I'm prepared to make the case upon request that these are just as offensive and malignant as male porn.  And if 99 percent of guys could get through one, you'd be probably be seeing a lot more misogyny in male porn.  They pretty much aggravate each other.    

I don't know that I would call a facial or any variation misogynistic.  If it's misogynistic, is sitting on a guy's face misanthropic?  It's the same thing inverted, especially if the woman squirts.  

I agree that both acts have an element of dominance to them, though, but Miss Frustrated so does the very act of getting paid for sex, and the woman *is* dominant at that moment, at least above the slavery/streetwalker level.  

I don't like cumming on a woman's face.  I don't find it visually attractive.  I might hit her in her eyes-- and that's painful as well as dangerous to her.  The sight of it does nothing for me.  I don't perceive of her face as being erogenous, and if you notice my post above, its pretty much only the erogenous zones.  

Power passing to the man during sex is not misogynist, especially if the woman is 100 percent willful about it.  If it's good sex, it will be passed back to the her sometime.  In consensual sex, you can't remove power being passed back and forth and expect it to be good sex.  Even a gentle backrub has a strong element of both power and trust.        

I'll study your link.

“These movies are market driven, they wouldn't have the misogyny unless guys buy them.”

Isn’t that what I'm saying, essentially?

”I'll say though, I don't know that most guys buy them for the misogyny as is perceived.  I think most guys buy them for the hot scenes between the misogynistic ones.  That's what I do, and I hope it's generally true.”

So let’s see, you fast-forward through the choking, slapping, name-calling, ass-to-mouth, pounding, painful double penetration to…the facial?

”Women have their own version of popular porn: Romance Novels.”

Never read one, can’t help you there.  Lisa Palac, Susie Bright, Nikki Gemmell interest me, though.

”… is sitting on a guy's face misanthropic?  It's the same thing inverted, especially if the woman squirts.”

And that happens so much, in both porn and in real life.

”I agree that both acts have an element of dominance to them, though, but Miss Frustrated so does the very act of getting paid for sex, and the woman *is* dominant at that moment, at least above the slavery/streetwalker level.”

Huh?  

”Power passing to the man during sex is not misogynist, especially if the woman is 100 percent willful about it.  If it's good sex, it will be passed back to the her sometime.  In consensual sex, you can't remove power being passed back and forth and expect it to be good sex.  Even a gentle backrub has a strong element of both power and trust.”

Yes, “if it’s consensual” being the operative phrase here.  Is a provider, by the simple act of being paid, consenting to any and all treatment on the part of the client?  I don’t think she is.  

Let’s leave facials aside – a sizable majority of providers don’t like being called names, being pounded roughly and painfully, being bitten, having their hair yanked, or having an unlubricated, unwashed finger forcefully inserted into their rectums.  These things occur regularly in porn, and as any provider who has been in this business can tell you, they are increasingly things that clients do, and don’t ask before attempting.  And from where do you think clients are getting these ideas and inclinations?  From porn, that’s where.  

But, I suppose trying to argue my case here is probably about as good an idea as Billy Graham pitching a tent in downtown Mecca, Saudi Arabia, and attempting to convert the masses *sigh*

"Yes, “if it’s consensual” being the operative phrase here.  Is a provider, by the simple act of being paid, consenting to any and all treatment on the part of the client?  I don’t think she is."  


This is why communication is key AFTER screening is completed, to learn of all boundaries before money has changed hands. The providers I have seen have always been much raunchier than me, and I like it that way. I seek it. You can't rely on reviews as YMMV and also the many false entries. I don't like facials, but I love seeing providers that allow CIM.

-- Modified on 9/21/2005 7:50:31 AM

Communication is indeed the key! After screening, I am very upfront about what I will do and don't do. I never do anything that I will not enjoy, regardless if I were getting paid or not. I DO need to enjoy my sessions too, otherwise I would be in another line of business. BUT, there are some no no's that I don't do, for it does not turn me on. I don't do greek, and nor am I into getting my hair soaked with cum. Those activities do not appeal to me, so I won't do it. Partial facials are okay, as long as it does not go in my eyes (yes, cum does sting!!!!!!!!!!! So guys watch where you are shooting).

Except it needs to be nonverbal.   No woman enjoys having to explain herself, or will respect a man she "we need to talk" to.

Getting along with women is really very simple - all you have to do is know what she wants before she does, and tell her that's what she's getting.
I know every one of them talks as if they were the Chair and Dictator-for-Life of the United Nations Girlfriends' Committee, but guess what?  She doesn't talk for anybody but herself, and she's gonna change her mind any minute now, anyway.

I realize your post is probably tongue in cheek, but if not, you most likely will get flamed for some of the content. Some of it is very caveman to say the least.

Let's start, point by point.  You quoted me:
"*These movies are market driven, they wouldn't have the misogyny unless guys buy them.*"

... and answered:
"Isn’t that what I'm saying, essentially?"

Zin says:
Maybe essentially.  (Reread).  No I don't see it.  You point out that porn has influenced men's behavior "monkey see monkey do" is what you said.    You don't point out the opposite, that sales to men influences what the porn industry makes available.   Maybe you think that's  essentially saying the same thing.

Of course, maybe I misunderstood your original post in a different way, though?  Were you saying that jjack's reference to BoD dominance and submission were monkey see, monkey do?  Because I thought you were saying that the popularity of ejaculating on the woman was MSMD.

You quote me:
”*I'll say though, I don't know that most guys buy them for the misogyny as is perceived.  I think most guys buy them for the hot scenes between the misogynistic ones.  That's what I do, and I hope it's generally true.*”

Your answer:
"So let’s see, you fast-forward through the choking, slapping, name-calling, ass-to-mouth, pounding, painful double penetration to…the facial?"

My answer to yours:
Why does a discussion centered on facials bring any of this up from you?   Perhaps its also the possible misunderstanding I mentioned earlier.  I also implied that I don't buy or rent movies where those are what's offered, but you didn't quote that.  If I happen to hit a scene with those anyway, yes, I use the fastforward, or what may now be called the "skip."  My collection of video porn is actually very small.  But I have long, dry periods in my life, so it's essential.  The fact is, I've watched or read porn for about 31 years.  I've never been tempted to look into the areas of it you described.   In fact, my taste in it has stayed largely the same.  If my sexual repetoire has expanded since then, it has been seeing providers, and reading this website that has expanded it.

Frus quoting Zin's post from yesterday:
”*… is sitting on a guy's face misanthropic?  It's the same thing inverted, especially if the woman squirts.*”

Frus answered:
"And that happens so much, in both porn and in real life."

Today, I say:
And your point is, what, darling?  No matter if you see it in a porno or practice it in real life, the woman is still dominant there.  So does that make it misanthropy?  Whether it happens in a porno or in real life seems irrelevant to that question.  Or am I wrong?  

Frus quotes me:
”*I agree that both acts have an element of dominance to them, though, but Miss Frustrated so does the very act of getting paid for sex, and the woman *is* dominant at that moment, at least above the slavery/streetwalker level.*”

All you had to say to this was "Huh?"

I answer now:
Now, I'll call that a vague question.

What part of that makes you say write "huh?"  That's never occurred to you?  Or you dispute it at its very basis?  Or are you completely stopped by the notion?  The woman gets resources, represented by cash, and therefore, something practical that she could use.   If a guy's means are limited, as mine are, he's aware of how powerful that is.  Doing the math, I've worked for 17 days before to earn the money to see my ATF for the length of time I considered worthwhile.  Do you think that this isn't powerful?

Even if the guy is wealthier than me, which is not difficult to do, he will still pay more for the right provider than for any other professional.  There's a possible exception with his lawyer.   A rich guy has to have a lot of legal protection.  There is no other profession like the one you are in.

You accurately quote me:
”*Power passing to the man during sex is not misogynist, especially if the woman is 100 percent willful about it.  If it's good sex, it will be passed back to the her sometime.  In consensual sex, you can't remove power being passed back and forth and expect it to be good sex.  Even a gentle backrub has a strong element of both power and trust.*”

And answered:
"Yes, “if it’s consensual” being the operative phrase here.  Is a provider, by the simple act of being paid, consenting to any and all treatment on the part of the client?  I don’t think she is."  

My answer today:
Maybe I should have explicitly said: I was presuming that the guy had been screened, and things have been discussed and settled, and she finds his desires acceptable.  I will assume also that if she doesn't find them acceptable, it's a matter of trust and professionalism that she doesn't hassle him about it, or put it in her blog as I've seen one provider do.  That is a betrayal.  She shouldn't do that anymore than the guy should hassle her over her price or her refusal to tandem his nasty act.  If you find what he asks you for contemptible, remember that the majority of society will find you contemptible too, if they knew what you do for a living. In some countries, you profession would lead to a death sentence.

He also shouldn't ask you after the session really starts, especially over dinner.  

I, myself, modify my behavior with different providers.  One of my favorite ladies does everything covered, even Russian or a HJ.  I know this.  I would never ask her for a BBBJ.

You said, without a lead in quote:
"Let’s leave facials aside – a sizable majority of providers don’t like being called names, being pounded roughly and painfully, being bitten, having their hair yanked, or having an unlubricated, unwashed finger forcefully inserted into their rectums.  These things occur regularly in porn, and as any provider who has been in this business can tell you, they are increasingly things that clients do, and don’t ask before attempting.  And from where do you think clients are getting these ideas and inclinations?  From porn, that’s where."  

And I say:
I agree with you totally here.  Porn does have its influence; all visual media does have a powerful influence on all of us.  Just remeber this: just because the guy is curious and wants to try a certain nasty act with somebody,  it *doesn't* mean he will enjoy it.   As far as you know, he wants to try it because the woman on the video did a very good job of acting like she enjoyed it, and unfortunately for many of us men or women, seeing is believing.   Guys who try these things without asking about it have their own misogyny issues beforehand.  

With me, prior to hobbying, I would never want to do Greek.  When I started hobbying, I wouldn't have tried it.  I never liked to watch it.  I could never understand how the "receiver" could possibly find it enjoyable.  Until one day, a provider I met told me how it was enjoyable for her.  It was at the end of a marvelous session.  She already knew I would see her again.  I also read other providers describing how it was enjoyable.  So, the hobby changed my sexual habits in a way that 31 years of porn didn't.

Frus winds up:
"But, I suppose trying to argue my case here is probably about as good an idea as Billy Graham pitching a tent in downtown Mecca, Saudi Arabia, and attempting to convert the masses."

And of course I try for the last word:
No, darling.  Because if Billy Graham did that, he would be killed.   You won't be killed for your opinion; you won't be injured, and I won't even flame or ridicule you for it.   And I don't even know if Mr. Graham is up to your level of courage.
Being a provider in this culture is being both courageous and non-conformist.

Granting exceptions to every rule (call them freaks) you tell me how many women want (a) to go out with somebody shorter than them, who (b) asks permission to kiss them - ??

Can you think of 2 more predictable turnoffs?  Maybe Woody Allen with missing teeth and needing a  shower a week ago?   Oh, I forget, he's the original short kiss-permission boy.

What works best (ie, most predictably) is to know what a woman wants before she thinks about it, and what she wants (ie responds to) is NOT somebody who gives her what she wants.  That bores almost all of them as soon as they have it.  (Men too, but that's not the subject.)   Sure, they'll stick around if the pay's good enough, but they're not happy, because there's no challenge, no intrigue.  (Men too, but that's not the subject.)

Men are trained to defer to women (at least as much as women are trained to defer to men) but that is NO FUN, and it is a road to a breakup, unless there is an overwhelming economic motive (and that is a miserable situation).  There has to be engagement, there has to be flirting, and if it's a sure thing, it's not flirting.   The closer a race is, the more it excites people; and that's the same with any event.