Relating to the thread about hobbying vs. love in the civvie world....made me wonder. If you met someone and fell in love again and stopped hobbying (maybe even marriage) would you eventually tell him/her that you used to play in this arena?

I can't fathom falling for anyone after a failed 20 year marriage but admittedly, I'm very jaded on the subject presently.  However, I'm pretty sure I would keep it to myself. I would also never put her at risk until I got tested first and completely stopped p4p.

Thoughts?

Nothing good can come of it if you were to spill the beans about hobbying. Civie girls seem to have made up their minds about guys who see prostitutes. They think we are the bacteria that breaks down fecal matter. I say don't go there and what she dosent know can't hurt you.

-- Modified on 7/5/2012 12:03:18 PM

This is a tough one. I dont think i would come out and say that i payed for providers but, i would tell her something that made it clear that i had seen many woman before her.

What he does not know will not hurt him. Keep your mouth zipped. If you have stopped and get tested and are given the all clear, and this goes for providers too, then what is in your past can stay there.

What if things change in the relationship, as they so often do, and I need to hobby again? The first time I get late from work, or call off a dinner date for hobbying reasons, she is going to suspect that I am mongering again... As 808 said, nothing good can come out of sharing this....

but yes he would know that I was in the adult lifestyle part-time, which is true. I would probably not tell him about TER and my website lol, but moreso that I used to see men who helped me financially.

I want the man to know who I am and what I have done, because if he disapproves we are not a match to begin with. I don't believe in starting something new based on a lie or an illusion, and I am not exactly the epitome of the stay at home, PTA mom.

-- Modified on 7/5/2012 12:21:00 PM

I would never date a guy I knew hobbied whilst married, so in that sense he is selling me an illusion of who he is by withholding that. No judgement, but I prefer not to date men I know are already cheating on someone else. Nothing would ever convince me that I would not also be cheated on, when times got tough. Very few men who are in this life EVER fully stop, as you just indicated, so that's not what I want to deal with when I am looking for a life partner or someone to father my child.

how can you ever be 100% sure that he never hobbied, or for that matter slept with another woman, when being married  or in a serious relationship? Like the old adage goes. You can't prove negative. You can't prove someone never cheated. All you can prove is someone cheated.

I guess the only thing you can do is take him for his word.

pretending to be something you're not. My ex BF did this to me, and I realized I fell in love with the illusion of a man he presented, not who HE was. Had I known what he was from the start, I would not have wasted 3 years of my life on him. THAT is the difference. If me being a hooker would prevent a guy from ever getting serious with me, I want to know that shit from the start so we are on the same page. HE has a right to know the person he is falling for...the good and the bad. I am not talking about a one time instance of cheating, but a "lifestyle." That is a huge difference.

-- Modified on 7/5/2012 12:31:33 PM

That my SO was a provider, and did not tell me. That would guarantee my breaking up with her.
Not because she fucks strange men for money. Because keeping a secret that big from me shows she will never be totally honest with me. Tricky situation... I would harbor huge amounts of guilt if I had an SO, and did not tell her.

Not the type of person I would ever want to invest my time in.

...Its just that we guys are wired a little differently.

...its just holding back the truth.

or having an STD, that would also be ok? Just saying. A "liar" is a character flaw in my book. I could deal with many things, but lies are continual. Once you lie about something or ok...Omit lol, you have to KEEP lying and omitting for that entire relationship. Each time the subject is brought up, another lie is told to keep it going. It never ends...only the trust will.

-- Modified on 7/5/2012 1:07:39 PM

...I want to know, because that can hurt me, and hurt the next girl I fuck ...

As far as sleeping with my brother...I would kill that sonofabitch if he has fun with my wife and doesn't tell me...I want to know if she was good in bed or not ....

I belive in true love. Nothing can stop that force. If she couldn't handle the truth about me. It was not meant to be.

First off, confessing your sins is something you do for yourself, not the other person. Don't pretend you would be telling your SO so that they would really know you, because it is a selfish thing to do. If you really need to confess, go see a priest or a shrink, not someone who will be deeply affected by your confession.

Secondly, everyone, yes, everyone, that you might meet and fall for has something in their past, in their view of things, something they do, that would turn you off, make you think twice about committing to them. No one is perfect. Falling in love and making that commitment is an act of faith, not a logical, informed decision. It is far more important to recognize how you treat each other, how you deal with problems, how you share the good times and the bad times, than it is to get a personality inventory. We do not make mistakes about these things because we do not have enough information, we make mistakes because we fool ourselves and ignore what is right before our eyes, pretend that things are different than they are.

Lastly, a successful relationship works as much because of what you do not say as what you say. You need to want to be nice to each other, be considerate, be supportive, and work through the challenges together. All that is true. But to tell someone something that you know will hurt or upset them just because it is true - I do not see how that makes sense. There is a very fine line between being honest and being cruel. Be considerate, not selfish, and STFU.

As for the OP, if the relationship was going to include an active, shared, sex life, I would gladly quit hobbying. But love takes many forms. As for getting tested, I do that already. Yes, this is high risk, but staying safe is for everyone, all the time, in my world.

zig

the man I married lied about a life he led for several years, as I am sure he would feel the same about my lies if he was the kind of guy I wanted to begin with. Bottom line, is some women care about this and others don't. You have to know upfront what type of person she is as she does you, or you are heading for a war not a relationship. I know many men who would leave a girl at the altar if they found out she was a hooker in her past. Why risk that by not telling the guy from jump? If he can't forgive me, he does not need to be lied to for me to keep him. No thanks.

One thing I don't agree with.
You don't have to be forgiven for being a provider.
Nor should I have to be forgiven for being a hobbiest.

Telling a guy who thinks I am some innocent PTA mom that I was a hooker, is not selfish at all. You're contradicting yourself big time. SELFISH would be pretending to be something I am not for fear that he would not love me, or leave me...I am not that insecure. If you feel the need to lie to your mates and omit, by all means do so. Passing that off as being selfless, is a bit much though lol. Denial is a bitch and only protects YOU. Guys don't lie to their wives to protect them...are you effin kidding me? They don't want to lose her, the house, the kids, and the money invested. Has nothing to do with her "feelings" or you would not cheat to begin with lol. If you're so worried about "protecting" her, you would not be risking exposing her to an std by being in the hobby.

To be clear, I have no problems with guys who cheat, but skip the bs. It is not about the person you love when you are getting your rocks off so don't go there. It's about YOU, YOUR desires, and YOUR self gratification. Keep it real.

We are not talking about active clients/providers not telling their SOs, we are talking about retired clients/providers starting new relationships.

...when you will most likely lose custody of your kids and lose half of your paycheck.. Easier said than done...She will very gladly dump you and vilify you in front of your friends and family.

And that you can't help it? Or wired to cheat and you can't help it?

Yep, not a problem. Told her all about my encounters with providers. She was fascinated by it.

he has yet to find out what he is missing lol. Not all guys cheat, lie, and live in denial. Not all guys are miserable being with one woman whose feelings they put above their own. There is a really easy solution for guys who don't like being faithful...don't get married, and fk all you want lol.

I think that cheating is a choice. You choose to marry and enter into an agreement and you choose to cheat. If you can't honor that agreement, then don't marry. Or even bother with a committed relationship.

Personally I think the hard wired number is an excuse. And if you don't think it's an outright excuse, then how about this little gem. Women are hard wired to snare the male with the most ability (money) to provide for her and her offspring...if that is true why do so many of you on here bemoan the gold digger or the lady who won't bother with you unless you have a big bank balance? Isn't she just acting like one of you, doing her own hard wired thing? Why not so accepting of that?

What is so sickening, is the perpetual double standard that prevails on here.

Hard to believe their are still guys out there like that, but your right, their are.
Some of us did the whole monogamy thing and were good at it.
I'm not blaming my X for everything, but, i did always go out of my way, to make her happy.
She has alot of childhood anger issues with her dad and mom. I feel sorry for her, but, i couldn't take it anymore. ( her taking her anger out on me )
I,m one of those guys that had a good mom and taught me how to love...i have alot of it to give away, but hard to find someone to give it to. ( except my kids and grandkids )


SORRY FOR ALL THE PM'S

Ziggy is spot on with his assessment on the OP, IMHO.

Using your comments as an example, why would you need to discuss with a prospective husband that you were...I repeat...were a prostitute?  How in the world would that be important at all to the relationship, aside from "clearing YOUR conscience"?  

As zig suggested, WE have all done shit that we are NOT proud of...and that is EVERYONE  here.  And that certainly extends to everyone in the world as well.  But to tell a "loved" one of this type of past, there is just no reason to disclose this.

I also don't agree that many are so fixated on "losing" everything they have in a divorce.  All you need do is a bit of research to hear from those ex-wives who are always complaining that THEY got the short end of the financial stick.  Remember, most don't have the resources, or think they do, to hire guys like me to get them their "fair share".  

Hence, many reasons why some fellas are here.  And honestly, if I were to find a "new love"...no way in hell am I discussing this part of my life.  I'm also NOT that insecure to keep this a secret.  And it would have NO value in her ever knowing about this.  

Wouldn't it be worse if she found out on her own though? After 10 years of marriage. If it were me, and my wife... The deception would sting far worse than the infidelity.

London, we need more shrinks like you, that don't just tell people what they wanna hear.
I know someone will say that's your opinion, but it's not, it's the truth.
To say it ain't so, IS denial!!

It, ALWAYS gonna be true, that if guys didn't cheat, the biz would pretty much dry up.
Men hate to own it, but, WE are behind alot of the problems in the world...NOT WOMEN.
I'm not KISSING ASS, it's just the truth.
I have a good book ALL men should read, it would change the world as we know it.

And assuming that is what we are discussing...the ONLY way she (he) would find out is if YOU opened up "your big mouth" and told her.

Now if you want to discuss telling her about your current hobbying...from my POV the same axiom applies.  While others may see things differently.

As you comment, you may have a difficult time with the infidelity, but telling (or your wife finding out somehow...probably because YOU couldn't keep it a secret anymore) your wife that you're fucking whores.  Might make YOU feel better that you came clean...but reverse that role and let me know how you'd like it?

This is a secret world...and has to stay that way.  If one simply has that hanging over their head, and have to tell loved ones...I suspect that would translate to all parts of their lives as well.  But confession should be limited to a priest or dog...and I would recommend the dog first

Happy to agree to disagree.

Few things, though.

First off, not telling someone about every bad thing I have done is not pretending to be someone I am not. I am who I am, and I do not hide that. But I also do not confess things that will hurt someone else and do no good.

Second, the question from the OP was about whether you would tell someone before you entered into a relationship what you had done, not whether you would confess what you are doing.

Third, it appears you believe in absolute right and wrong, and not situational ethics. I do not agree. For example, I would never kill someone, unless it was someone I cared for who asked for my help, say when they were suffering with an apparently fatal disease. Does that make me a murderer? Many would say so, but I think that is just an expression of love and caring. Different situations require different reactions.

So let me reverse it - if someone you loved was doing something that would rock your world if you knew about it, but everything seemed fine for you now, would you want to know? Not me. Would I leave my wife if I found out she was having an affair? Probably not, though if I found out I would be sad and want to understand why, and where she thought the affair is heading.

It would be nice if all of this was black and white, but in my world, it is not. I have no problem with you thinking I am wrong, though, and even calling me names. Go for it.

zig

Not a perfect analogy, but you do not confess and plea bargain until you think the cops are going to get you either way.

I am not sure which would hurt more - the infidelity, the deception or the confession. How do you separate the three? That is why it would also be cruel and selfish to confess in what the SO may consider to be an otherwise good relationship - you basically are not only hurting them by the infidelity, but also telling them they are fools, and, on some level, that you want them to know all that. In my world, that is the most hurtful thing I could do. If I got to the point of feeling like I had to go there, better to end the relationship and confess to that professional, third party.

Sure, a great argument can be made that this is a self-serving rationalization, as LR has done. But look at it from the SO's point of view, going along thinking everything is great and then one day a ton of bricks falls on them, you are not who they thought, her whole life was a sham, they were a fool. Would it be kinder to:

A. Continue on without telling.
B. Tell and try to keep the relationship going.
C. Stop the behavior and see if the relationship is worth continuing.
D. Tell them it is not working (but not reveal the infidelity) and end the relationship.

B seems by far the most hellish for all involved, but that is just me. C is clearly the ethical and moral choice, no question for me. But we each must make our own choices, in our own unique situations.

zig

Dear Ms. Rayne:
I am just wondering although you previously stated that you are not active since you are in the hobby,what are your choices with respect to men that can handle the fact that you are in the profession that you are in? Also to what level of seriousness does the relationship escalate and what would be the strategy for replies if you are somewhere among his friends and they inquire what do you do?  Also how narrow is the mainstream heterosexual market for your peers as well and how long do you wait before you drop the A bomb about your profession within the relationship?  I am sure that this is a valid question for several in the sex industry and for this particular facet of the sex industry.

Just because I don't agree with lying to a person you claim to love does not mean I am judging you...I would never do it, but by all means go ahead. I would never call you names, but I will call out self gratifying for what it is. I love you bro, so don't think this changes the past posts I have agreed with you about..it does not. I can argue with you today, and fk your brains out tomorrow lol.

Second, you confuse a LIFESTYLE OF YEARS of indiscretions with a few acts of unethical behavior like stealing a candy bar when you were 12, or banging some chick you met at a bar one night...you're reaching with that comparison, and that's not what I said.

Sitting there and confessing every single dirty deed you have done, is a far cry from being upfront about the kind of person you are and what you value in relationships. My ex did this very thing to me and let me fall in love with a guy I "thought" he was. I would have liked the chance to decide from jump, if that's the kind of man I wanted to be with and waste my time on. The answer would have been HELL NO!  

I said confess a lifestyle, not things you don't do on a regular basis or every detail about your damn past.  For the record, if a person "was" a drug dealer or has been doing cocaine once a week over the last 10 years, I would also want to know about that, because it is a LIFESTYLE, not a once in a while thing.

I would NOT suggest telling a woman you've been cheating on for the past 10 years about it...that would be a bit hellish and a bit too late, but some random person you have no ties with nor she to you, is not breaking up anything that has already been established. You are in fact lying about the type of person you are by "pretending" to be some guy who is faithful and believes in monogomy by "omiting" the fact that you REGULARY have seen hookers...there is another word for it as well, but we won't go there lol. It is what it is.

A guy has a right to know that if I am going to be his future wife that my body was once all over the damn internet and possibly I slept with a few of his friends...how much fun would it be to run into "John" at our wedding and he be the one to let the guy know the girl in the white dress should not be wearing it lol.


Bottom line...make your own choices and live with them, but don't try to sugarcoat the shit. I have no issues with other people's choices, but I do take issue with the bs excuses they use for making them.

CPA...wrong again. It has nothing to do with clearing my conscience as that would suggest I needed to tell someone to feel better about the choices I have made...that would be my parents, not some guy I have no ties to. If I could lie to the man I am about to marry about being a freaking whore, what else would I lie about? It's a character flaw in my book...big time.

I thought we were talking about a relationship that had not yet evolved, not one that has been going on for years? I feel differently about each of those situations. I was under the impression the OP was looking to get into a relationship and asking if he should come clean about his past hobby life, and if so I stand by my comments about "pretending" to be someone he is not...faithful! If he is already married and all of a sudden wants to come clean, well yea, that would be a bit different and I would not condone lying, but it would do more damage by telling the truth.


I don't need his approval, but I do need his trust. If I needed his approval, I would LIE. What if we were at a party and I slept with 4 guys there for money in the past? What if they were single and had no reason to keep our secret? You don't think bros before hos would come into play and one of them would tell him I was a whore at one time? It's a small world, and I prefer not to put on a front with a person I am going to spend the rest of my life with.

Call me a realist. i am not "hurting" him by telling him this before we fall in love, because well...we are not in love to begin with. I simply want to make sure any guy I am going to be with knows he can trust me, and that I will not lie to him regardless of what it is about. I expect the same from those I choose to put that much time into, but it does not always work out that way.












-- Modified on 7/5/2012 6:32:23 PM

I hang out with gay guys lol. If it were not for the hobby, I would never get laid because A. I don't believe in lying about this part of my life, and B. I don't believe in casual sex now that I have a child. It gets lonely sure, but it is what it is. In 2 years, hopefully things will change and I can look to settle down.

Damn right I would be telling her to make me feel better. Out of those choices I always pick D though.
I would like to belive E exists. E: Tell her and she doesn't care. Doesn't like it, but is glad I would tell her anything.
This is the reason I remain single. Lol!
See how well I know women?  
You have a great point, but how can a good relationship have secrets like that?
Hey, I have never been married,  but I have been in long relationships before. They were always based on truth. This was before the hobby, but the shit she told me, and I told her make the hobby look like childsplay.

If anyone goes into a relationship expecting that they have to know every little dirty detail about their prospective new love's life....that would just seem VERY bizarre.  At least to me.  You obviously see it differently, and that's fine.  

But from my POV I would expect that you're NOT a virgin.  Just because you decided to charge guys to fuck you vs just being a barfly, what good is it to tell me how many fellas you've been with.  If WE are starting our lives together, it is from today.  NOT from years ago.  And if I were to hold your past against you, then you would also be misjudging me from the get go.

And if that John you fucked three years ago were to come up to me at a wedding and tell me he fucked you for money...OK.  It simply wouldn't matter to me, but then I'm sure there are others it would be an issue for.  The reality here is that what you did in your past is not important to why I want to be with you today and tomorrow.  I hopefully loved you for the gal that I know today.

As I said in my prior post, we ALL have done shit we're not proud of.  That's life...and anyone who can claim they haven't, I call bullshit on them.

That's my argument on this topic.  You know better than most that I don't pull my punches.

always want to marry an ex whore, and telling them would be a deal breaker! Hell, I know guys right here who would still not marry a girl they knew was a hooker, nor would I date a hobbyist lol.

That is my point...if what I reveal would change his decision to marry me, he has the right to know. He has the right to get the woman he thinks I am!  If it does not change his decision, then no harm no foul, but it is not something I would lie about regardless of my feelings getting hurt by his decision to dump me. Again, you are trying to compare a HUGE thing like being in this lifestyle, to a "few things" we can't even remember we have done..NOWHERE near the same impact. I can't even recall some of the crap I have done that was unethical, but I can't forget I was London Rayne for four freaking years.

Not all guys or even the majority of men would be as accepting as guys in the hobby...you know damn well I am right. I know guys who won't even date a girl who fked 10 guys in 30 years and did NOT get paid for it.

Do I need to bring up "Clerks 2" here ha ha. "37" wtf?


-- Modified on 7/5/2012 6:30:35 PM

If the girl I married was a provider, of course I would.

And there's all sorts of gray in between.

Loos mouth sinks the ship. What is with some people wanting to blabber everything. Practice more listening and less talking.

I have decided after asking my clients if I should tell once I get a real job...NOT to tell anyone I get serious with.  No client, would ever run into me and I know most men would not accept what I did to make my mortgage.  I'll probably be too tired to see many except my regular discerning knights who love my style and will work around my schedule.
I hope to get an evening shift because most of my men are only free during the day..and until I really get serious with someone there is no reason to tell anyone. Yes, loose lips sink ships for sure and mine is coming in.  I am looking forward to being part of the community instead of hiding what I do.  So I hope to get to meet some more of you before I go in other directions...Have a great summer!  Kalina

Had she not confessed and I figured it out on my own I would have bolted. Major lies and omissions have no place in a serous relationship and tend to hurt those lied to.

Now not all of us married hobbyists are cheaters. (Same goes with married providers; my wife is no longer cheating even though she beds others.) I do not cheat. My wife approves of every lady I bed before I bed her. It was her idea I do this. If a wife knows, approves, and encourages her husband bedding others is not cheating when her husband does so. Fact is to be honest I am hobbying less and less as the novelty is gone, my favorites are gone, and the sex is better at home. I still see a lady about once a month but I could pass. I have no doubts I could go back to being monogamous, I doubt my wife could.

Life was so much easier before I had to buy condoms in bulk as we are both high risk sex partners. Before I had to worry about getting tested for STD's. Before I had to spend time screening just so I don't get robbed or worse. Before I got shunned by people I thought was friends and by some of my family. I could not cheat the lies would kill me.

Ladies or gents this ain't confesseion at the catholic church. Especially if its the past, the past is the past. Most not on this board would never understand. And ladies if you meet a guy and decide to stop don't tell us, most guys can't deal. But if it is a lifestyle you want to continue that might be different, but tread lightly.

honesty is always the best policy..you will never have to lie if you tell the truth..

My wife did destroy my word when she confessed. I will not lie it shook me to the core. The marriage survived by a thread. Thing mended, and trust is being regained. The marriage is intact as is the love. My sons life was not disturbed. "B. Tell and try to keep the relationship going" was hard on me but it gave me the power to make informed choices and ended the poisonous lies.

Now lets look ate the other choices she could have made. "A. Continue on without telling" I was already suspicious. I would have figured it out in time. I knew things was not right. When I figured things out there would be know fixing thing as the there was never a once of honesty like there is with B.

"C. Stop the behavior and see if the relationship is worth continuing." Is an option that would work and is likely the best choice for current infidelity. But if I found out later and I was looking and asking it would have been like A as I would not believe she had stopped as everything was a lie. C forces more lies to cover old ones. C can save your partner pain if they never learn the truth some other way. B and C has there pluses and minuses.

"D. Tell them it is not working (but not reveal the infidelity) and end the relationship." This is the cruelest of them all as it leaves them blaming their self for your actions. Bad choice, If you leave you owe them why.

Thing is we are not talking about infidelity in a relationship, we are talking the truth of ones past before the relationship is to far along. No one would be hurt by honesty except they may decide you are not worth further time on their part. It lets them make an informed choice before there is real pain involved. A lie of omission early in a relationship can become major after feeling are involved years later and cause much pain and mistrust if discovered later and there are always lose ends that can come back and bite you. B is the only real choice of compassion about ones past early on.

Glad to know I'm not alone with a SO who has significant childhood issues and deep anger.  Only difference is I'm still in it because I have kids at home.  I was raised with strong family values and can't bear to ruin their lives.  I understand how women would not be able to trust a man who cheats but life isn't that simple.  I'm in this to keep myself from utter misery but not get emotionally carried away at the same time.

Certain aspects of your sexual past may qualify, if your partner has no reason to need know.

I appreciate the fact that you seem responsible about getting tested. As far as keeping your thought to yourself, I say "if u like it, then I love it" No one should begrudge you for wanting privacy, hell everyone has a few bones in their closet (some have whole cemetaries) in their closets!!

That's my feelings on a subject like this. When two people love each other there has to be honesty. If a man never  can comprehend that she's being honest with him , if she tells him he's the only one from that day forward and he cant handle it , runs in the other direction , he has proven to her that he cannot handle the truth . Just like you guys on here having flings with alot of other women if you are honest an aren't going to have both worlds and you admit it to your future wife and work on building a future based on honesty and trust ( main foundation in a relationship) then you have a good relationship.

Angela

No one would believe you anyway...