and for that matter neither are all 23 year olds.
I hear this same refrain often from many "older" guys who have performance issues. If you only enjoy "old broads" fine, those are the women YOU should see, but please don't pretend to speak for all of us with over 200,000 miles on us. I see women of that age all the time and I find I enjoy my time with the younger women much more than I do with the women who have a lot of mileage on them like I do.
Your point about seeing women without reviews however is a point well taken. A session like you described, regardless of the woman's age doesn't sound like a good use of time or money. I know you've been around quite a while, maybe you should concentrate on seeing the women you already know will show you a good time until the review system finds a way to reinvent itself.
I have had my first bad experience of visiting a provider listed on P411 without a TER review to back up my selection. I should know better too so this one is on me.
I am older and face challenges many seniors face with.....hmm.......performance. In my experience 99.9% of providers from their mid 30's in age up know how to work with the issue and bring our meeting to a wonderful conclusion.
On Wednesday night I went young, about 23 years in age. Great web site, unique bio, fantastic eyes, great bod, you know. I thought" what the hell." Well guess what?
No kissing, foreplay was awful, fucking was ok, BBBJ was awful. I am no looker these days, used to be, but not anymore. Over 200,000 miles on this body. Nine of ten providers this is not an issue, but I suspect it was in this case, and why not? How can an early 20 something have the appreciation for what happens to a man and a woman's body post 59 years young? Obvious she was somewhat new in the profession with poor experience in oral play. She was a very polite young lady, but the experience was a bomb.
Having reviews as a reference might have helped prevent my experience from happening, I will never know. I suspect the rate of unsatisfactory encounters might increase in this new world we are living in.
One thing is for sure, I am sticking to the 35 and older crowd from here on out.
I believe that the low level of service that you experienced was due to the lack of accountability in the post-review world, rather than a lack of experience. The review system was not just a source of information on a provider's performance and erotic skills. It also motivated them to perform well, in the hopes of earning good reviews in order to build their reputations, and it further discouraged misbehavior and mediocre service, given the risk of bad reviews. Without that encouragement of good service and that deterrent to bad behavior, I have no doubt that the quality of service will decline.
I do not believe that her poor performance was due to a lack of experience. You mentioned that she did not kiss? It does not require a great deal of sexual experience to understand that kissing is an important part of good sex. A more likely explanation is that she just did not want to kiss you and decided not to do so because she knew that she could get away with such mediocre service in a post-review world. When the review system was still active, she might have kissed you because she would not have wanted to risk a negative review, but now all bets are off and they can get away with bad service.
I am shifting most of my pussy budget to sugar babies and overseas mongering trips, and I would encourage other hobbyists to do the same.
I suspect that this provider just performed the way she usually does, and didn't suddenly get worse due to the lack of reviews. The OP just didn't have any way to research her in advance, or else he might have either seen bad/lackluster reviews or the total absence of reviews as a warning sign.
But I remember what it was like before reviews, and providers were generally worse. Few were able to make a high hourly rate due to the general lack of reviews, but they could compensate by overbooking and abruptly ending each appointment at the first pop. If there continues to be a lack of reviews, the industry is going to drift in that direction over time.
and for that matter neither are all 23 year olds.
I hear this same refrain often from many "older" guys who have performance issues. If you only enjoy "old broads" fine, those are the women YOU should see, but please don't pretend to speak for all of us with over 200,000 miles on us. I see women of that age all the time and I find I enjoy my time with the younger women much more than I do with the women who have a lot of mileage on them like I do.
Your point about seeing women without reviews however is a point well taken. A session like you described, regardless of the woman's age doesn't sound like a good use of time or money. I know you've been around quite a while, maybe you should concentrate on seeing the women you already know will show you a good time until the review system finds a way to reinvent itself.
I was actually speaking about myself when referring to the 200,000 mile comment. Many men over 59 are in better shape than I am. I made the comment to give the provider a reason for the poor performance, when most women older understand the dynamics of age. Older providers, INHO, are more seasoned and understanding about aging and do not let it get in the way.
In other words, I own the decision to go young and it was a mistake, not be made again. Having the review system in place might have helped.
A lot of us have over 200,000 miles on us, but that doesn't mean WE don't enjoy young women.
The review system "might" have helped you, actually it "probably" would have helped you, but I am just rather tired of old guys blaming lousy service on the youth of the provider when many of us get great service from women younger than 23. Personally, I think a lot of you guys are guilty of "self fulfilling prophecies" you expect bad service, you don't really feel comfortable being with a young woman and often times I believe you sabotage your own sessions. but that's just speculation on my part.
I disagree. I've been with providers ranging from age from roughly 20 to 45, and the providers in their 30s and 40s tend to have more skill at at delivering an enjoyable experience. The younger providers are generally more attractive, but sometimes that is undermined by their relative lack of social skills or increased flakiness. The older providers also seem to enjoy the sex more, while some younger providers can't even be bothered to move around much during the act. YMMV, of course.
You nailed it! Much more articulate than I.
At a younger age your perception of age is quite a bit different. As a 21 year old provider I thought someone in their 40s was ancient and was put off by anyone older than that. The people who I was attracted to and had more enjoyment were generally around my age. My focus was earning money, not building connections. Now its a lot different (I am 31).
Before review boards it was hit or miss TOFTT, but there were no teams to report to.
The dependency on reviews to assure a better chance became the norm. Who wants to take risks with there $ when you can easily read the menu and comments others give as feedback.
Many ladies have changed there profiles to list they are out of country so you can see there profiles and reviews.
There are ad sites that include reviews. And just today I was given a site that is membership by request, not public, they screen clients and ladies. Later tonight I will try to join. If TER doesn’t return the ad boards or access to profiles inside the US this place might be the place to go.
With the New World Order of non-review sites being the only game in town (seems like switter will be a non-review communications channel), those of us old fossilized bastards (thus my handle) will remember what things were like BEFORE the inter webs and review sites.
There will be little accountability, there might be back channel communications between hobbyists (I've noticed an increase in the number of private messages I've received from my brethren in p4p) and there will be a lot of TOFTT, even though the team might not hear about it. Remember what it was like going to a new restaurant before Yelp? Now bump up the stakes by a two orders of magnitude...
Being 64 million years old, I generally see providers that are 35+ years of age -- I'm a bit reluctant to see a young lady who is a decade younger than my daughter. I have seen two providers in their mid-20s in the last year but only after (1) meeting them prior to our session; and (2) had another provider (a long term fave of mine) meet and talk with her about our proposed 3some.
Both sessions turned out great initially -- but one of them started asking me for $$$ outside of our time together; and the other seems to have relationship issues outside of p4p that have put her in a bad place. Not that either of these circumstances are unique to providers in their 20s but it does seem to be part of the learning curve of life. And most of the 35+ providers I've played with have "ironed out" those wrinkles.
We are now in a hobby where we spend $300-$1000 and not sure what we will get. TER reviews were not perfect and there was definitely some major problems, but it was one of the cornerstones of this hobby. Even the anti-TER individual went quiet after TER reviews shut down because even she saw how much it hurt providers.
In the reality of TOFTT and YMMV, no girl is worth $1,000... so that reality lesson will hit some girls pretty hard I suspect... my max will drop a bit with no idea what I am signing up for...
You're just not looking in the right place.
Sorry about your baby experience. There's a very good reason why I only see fellas over 40.
maybe even up their game. Not all of us here are out to take your money and run. Even in this industry, some people take pride in their jobs. Whatever you do in like, do it to the best of your ability.
Plus 4
Reputation and integrity are a big asset in any business!
The two years I provided before I even knew of ter before I ever advertised, I had a full clientele which was built from referrals only. Gentlemen I had met before were my only advertisers.
I always gave my best and gave my all to each encounter and treated each person well and it paid off for me in the end. I will continue to do the same.
Doing the right thing even when no one is reviewing is the reason I was successful pre-ter and I will continue to be post-ter. Men do talk to eachother.
If anything the changes have me more eager to step up my service, and give 110%, it's not a time be lackadaisical!
We are not all bad out there guys, some of us still have our integrity along with our passion.
Humbly just my .02
(Edited for spelling )
-- Modified on 4/21/2018 2:56:37 PM
And what a work of art you Are!
You're so like the lady with the mystic smile.
- Written by Ray Evans and Jay Livingston
- Sung by Nat King Cole
Reviews are good and bad....agreed but overwhelmingly good for many of the reasons listed above. There were some idiots that posted “revenge” reviews but am I wrong in saying that they were more of the exception? Most established hobbyists, weigh the good with the bad...when checking reviews. One 6-7 amongst 9’s wouldn’t stop me from seeing someone. Reviews keep hobbyist from bad or dangerous experiences from a pimp hiding in the closet and does motivate ladies to keep their service on par and easily generate new clients. Everyone should understand that there is a YMMV factor in the industry as far as actual service behind closed doors but the “experience” should be in the ballpark. Guys have thanked me for years for my reviews. I like to think that I have helped tons of guys AND girls. Good luck everyone in this crazy new world.
Perfecto
Very valid points. I relied heavily on reviews to choose my meetings. Now everything seems to have that "BP" air of uncertainty. Did the BP thing twice when I 1st got in the hobby. The 1st was the worst encounter I've ever had in my life, the 2nd I walked on as the girl was gross, and unclean. The room stunk of dirty ass. The 1st may have too....but I couldn't smell it over the pungent stench of pot.
Hoping Switter adds a tab for provider accounts: toots followers following reviews
ha ha!!
-- Modified on 4/21/2018 4:13:38 PM
I booked a first appointment with a Top 5 local provider for tomorrow. She has also been on the TER Top 100 national list for at least a year. She had a lot of reviews here at TER, and I read through quite a few of them in the past, so I knew I wanted to see her. I booked her through P411, and there has been some followup communication with her scheduler. The final step was that I needed to send her a confirmation text today to get the address for tomorrow. I sent the text over five hours ago, and still don't have a response. I followed up with one more text, as well an email and PM via P411. Crickets. I can and will vent about her on my local board if we don't meet tomorrow, but it won't have much impact due to the decline in activity here. She can keep screwing up and disappointing other potential clients without any accountability now, though she will probably need to occasionally pull her act together to make some money.
Her scheduler emailed me last night. She confirmed that I texted the right number, but couldn't explain why the provider hadn't responded. So I tried again this morning, by text and email, to try to get the address for our 10 AM appointment. At 8:05 AM, the provider canceled without explanation. She did say sorry, but the abrupt message left me with the impression that I should move on to somebody who gives a shit.
I'd move on. I show respect so I wouldn't want to meet someone who didn't show me the same.
Now if a client did that, most likely a cancellation fee would be required from client. And if not paid to provider, the provider most likely would blast about the client to anyone who would listen and BL client.
I'm still not completely sold on the provider's assistant mixed in with our communications. I can understand why some use one, but I'd rather directly deal with the provider all of the time so that nothing gets lost in translation or just lost in general which I've experienced a few times lately.
I agree with you about the potential for the communication to get messed up when an assistant is involved. The assistant did respond to me yesterday, but that didn't help because the provider still didn't respond to my texts until she canceled. It would have been really helpful if the assistant had directly contacted the provider and told her to contact me. Instead, the provider handed the problem back to me. Making me send additional text messages may have made me look pushy to the provider.
and saw you were already developing a bad attitude.
To your point, yeah, what little accountability NCNS posts and poor reviews provided is virtually gone.
I agree with the first response to the OP, which made the point that the provider's service may have been deliberately half-assed because the provider felt that she could get away with mediocre service due to the lack of accountability in a post-review world. The risk of a bad or mediocre review was a strong motivation to perform well, but that motivation is no longer applicable.
I recently had an unusually poor session after the disappearance of U.S.-based reviews, and my experience lends credence to the above notion that the lack of reviews and the resulting lack of accountability in a post-review world will result in a significant reduction in performance. In contrast to the OP's mediocre provider, who had no known track record, this provider that I saw had been in the TER Top 100 for the whole country and for my city, with consistently +9 performance ratings. As many on these boards had been suggesting, I saved her contact information in anticipation of the subsequent disappearance of ads, reviews, and other platforms and later scheduled a session with her after the reviews disappeared.
The quality of the session was abysmal and bore almost no resemblance to the high quality of service that her previous reviewers had consistently described. Granted, it is possible that she had fake, “managed,” or “curated” reviews to begin with, and that she had gotten into the Top 100 that way, but I think that the more likely explanation is that she deliberately cut back on her service because she knew that she could get away with half-assed service in a world without reviews. Aside from the fact that she was more than half an hour late (overbooking?) and gave me the cue to leave 10-15 minutes early (more overbooking?), the discrepancies included a lack of kissing (all her previous reviews indicated DFK), CBJ (all of her previous reviews indicated BBBJNQNS), and a “one and done” policy (all of her previous reviews indicated MSOG). In other words, the standard and quality of service was what one would have expected from a cheap BP provider at a fraction of the price, or, according to the old-timers and vets here, from providers in the pre-TER, pre-Internet days.
Don't get discouraged! Many of us ladies are not like what you have unfortunately experienced.
Some of us ladies still have our reviews posted and are absolutely able to be reviewed still.
This is what I predicted here weeks ago, a return to the low-quality services from the pre-TER, pre-internet days. Ladies can get away with this with impunity right now, but it is going to cost them soon enough. They won't pick up any new regulars, and the existing regulars will gradually drift away in search of some variety. Eventually even the best providers will be competing strictly on price, and the price will be going down because nobody will pay even $400 an hour for unknown quality. To make the same money they made in the past, providers will need to go for quantity instead of quality, and that will lead to overbooking. And if P411 goes away, screening will initially become a severe pain for everybody involved, and then eventually providers will just give up on screening and go back to paying drivers to work as security. Welcome back to 1998 everybody.
Those who were and have always provided the best are going to continue. They would rather have repeat clients than constantly working to get someone new only to as you suggest provide less quality and risk loosing a new client.
The problem is unless you knew them previously or they haven’t changed city to another country you won’t know what your getting, like the days prior to reviews.
The other problem is trying to find them. While there are sites like Eros still around unless the quality providers are putting up ads on these sites you might run into many who were never quality to begin with.
Prior to the Internet it was all word of mouth from guys you knew. Everyone became dependent on reviews. Sadly the reviews are part of the problem.
Too much explicit details. A profile of services and rating system would be enough. But guys like to write detailed novels many where exaggerated and some vindictive. The ladies despised the detailing of there intimate experiences and had diffulty getting fake reviews, be it good or vindictive, removed.
Too many posted fake reviews just to see the salacious stories of another guys experience even though the profile of services told you what you could expect.
I have never paid for VIP since TER was started. First it came from writing legitimate reviews then most came from problem reports.
But now I think everyone should pay. End the detailed stories, keep the scoring system and services listed on there profiles. If you’re not a paying member you can’t even see those.
This way when someone gives low scores for a provider that generally has good ones you can always PM the reviewer for details. No more freeloaders who just like reading salacious stories to get themselves off.
Im sure the ladies would like that, I would be ok with that. And if you’re not ok with that, you’re likely the ones the quality providers don’t want to see anyway.
There is a new review site, I haven’t joined yet, but it’s open to ladies also. So maybe they offer boards and ads like here, don’t know yet.
Until TER returns with a solution you either repeat with a known or take a chance on an unknown. If you see an unknown whether it’s good or bad tell your friends.
You mentioned that there is a new review site. I would certainly be interested in signing up for it, and I imagine that many other people here would like to sign up for it as well.
If you cannot or do not want to post it here, please send it to me by PM.
PM me if you want to know.
Unfortunate but not only agree, also think it goes both ways.
Previous I posted on a thread about my stupid interaction guy using fake provider for reference. Today an even better one.
So i get email from possible client, during my trip in Vegas as I am going back Phoenix soon. He states he is 411 and has references. I ask him message me through 411. He sends message and I look his ok history to send reference request to his most recent 3 ok. His last OK was 2013. I ask do you have anything more recent. He sends me two reference of providers that are 411 but never give him an ok. One says he met with them both in the last few weeks.
One is delisted on 411, one i cant find on 411 at all. I just tell him he is too much effort to screen good luck in his search. What I wanted say was "you lying POS quit waste my time" But I am nice and dont say.
My point is that now that reviews gone, now that ability to look history of a client giving reviews, now that no reviews most US providers, now that many providers dont even have a website, now that the largest AD system with over 40k registered users is a combination of BP, CL, EROS, and other boards, selling and advertising any and everything form $1000.00hour providers to ziplock bag with poop mailed to you, to car dates.........yes customer service and credibility of provider and client is going to be YMMV...
So sorry
Christine
P.S. Also please note my new website is now off shore and secure. My web address has now changed.
Sorry that you ladies have to put up with guys like that.
Occam's razor? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly if your experiences with us older providers have 99% been good, and you choose to go against that and pick a 23 year old for an experience I feel that says more about your choices than the lack of reviews for you to read.
Actually why am I even on here answering such dopey questions when out here in the post review world the rest of us are getting along just fine like always. There are still ways to research. Google a providers name and our old reviews are to be found on that wonderful scraper site that steals them all.
I was told there were some amusing ‘poor us’ posts these days and lo and behold I’m not disappointed........