I came across this quote and wanted your thoughts on it....

Whores are the most honest girls, they present the bill right away. The others hang on and never let you go. When one lives with problems of importance, the prostitute is ideal. You pay, and whether or not you fail is of no importance. She doesn't care.

-Alberto Giacometti

I read this and begin to understand why so many men in power are getting caught in the beds of providers...

I do not believe that, as a whole, providers are especially different from other women.

Maybe I am just blessed; but overall I have found that relationships with civie women have NOT been with a bunch of gold-digging or superficial women. Most civie women with whom I have had relationships have been honest to a fault, fairly non-materialistic, very bright and just overall damned fine women.

Sure, there have been exceptions -- and those exceptions have taught me how to avoid their ilk.

In a sense, just as a provider will accept attributes in a hobbyist that she would never accept in a real mate; a hobbyist will accept things in a provider that he would never accept in a real mate.

So the standards and goals for choosing a woman for a civie relationship are, at least to some degree, different than for choosing a provider.
(I tend to use quite similar criteria. But I realize my approach is unusual.)

In addition, there are VERY important things available within civie relationships that hobby relationships tend not to provide. (I'm not saying it is impossible to get these things within the hobby, just that it is damned rare and often not desired.)

Civie relationships can provide ... offspring! Yeah!

Civie relationships can provide ... a sort of love that is unavailable outside of monogamy, IMO.

Civie relationships can provide a level of intimacy and familiarity that is only very very rarely approached within the hobby.

And -- that is just the beginning.

Comparing civie relationships to hobbying is VERY apples to oranges.

Neither is more or less honest than the other.

Character attributes pertain to individual persons, not professions.

I'm with Johngaltnh on this none.  Comparing loving, committed realtionships with escort-provided sex is an apples and oranges thing.  

That quote from Giacometti is a reference to sex - often an anonymous, emotionally-absent tryst in this hobby.  Comparing it to the benefits of finding a committed partner or a soulmate is just plain misplaced.

and it is not that apples or oranges are better or worse, but truly can't be compared....

Maybe they're the particle and the wave, or the cat in the box...

Crazy stuff about the cat in the box thing...lol  I gotta get out more....yeesh.

There are apples, and there are oranges. But, there are times when a state behaves as a particle, and when a particle can behave as a wave. This could pertain, to an extend, to the OP's observation. We hear all the time, especially on the Erotic Highway, where the distinction between provider and GF gets blurred in the view of the hobbyist.

Well expressed, johngaltnh. I especially agree with your statement of "Comparing civie relationships to hobbying is VERY apples to oranges."

I certainly do not accept certain behaviors or habits from civies but will tolerate them in providers. ie smoking

I want to be with civies for different reasons than a provider.

This doesn't stop me from asking for a miracle: "Please God, give me the perfect combination of a civie/provider."

Until then, ther is TER.

you seem to want to place ALL the blame on the guys. That's BS and you know it. Women are emotional(hands down LOL)creations also. They are susceptible to 'tripping' also.

In this, the single most cogent explanation of Quantum Theory that I've ever read.

(Click link.)

Ever hear the term "ball and chain"? Certainly not all, but many women date men in such a way that it's as if they are solely interviewing for the faceless position of "groom."

While only the original speaker of the quote can say for certain, I interpreted his statement to mean this sort of selling oneself for "emotional goods" rather than items on a more material scale. It is this sort of trade that is done under the table, without any open discussion and often without the real consent of the other party (being the polyamorous one, I can say from experience that men pull this behavior too).

These expectations will usually be revealed in an explosive fashion, often in the form of "after all I've done for you" and/or a list of the sacrifices undertaken on the part of the individual expecting these emotional goods; this alone is ample evidence that an expected trade was afoot without the openly agreed upon consent of both parties.

since I have no way of knowing what part of what I said was mis-interpreted, I cannot really address this, other than to say that my point was that there are times when a guy can be in a civie relationship, and he gets to feel like, for her, it's all about the money, or what it provides. And, there are times where a guy can feel like a P4P relationship had turned to something more meaningful. Either way, it can be more about her, or him, or a combination of both of them. Like men and women, in relationship, never mis-interpret the other person's remarks or behavior, right! My point is that one's experience of the state of the relationship can change back and forth. It's not always a steady state; wave or particles. Hope that clears it up. I'm not placing blame on anyone.

Oh, and regarding women being emotional creatures, who are you rooting for in the NCAA Basketball championships?

by the hobbyist. Ain't no thing Matt. Don't make me get Liorr up here to explain that to ya'. LOL


Ok what does the women referrence have to do with MY choice in the tourney?? LOL

My MONEY is in Morgantown. My loyalty is to the ACC BABY.

that we verbalize. Conscious expectations we do not verbalize. And, unconscious expectations we do not verbalize, at least not overtly and directly. Those expectations change to demands when the person holding them punishes the other for not coming through for them. They punish the other overtly by causing them some sort of physical or emotional pain, or by withholding something that the other person wants.

Such a twisted web we all weave.

This is true in many, though certainly not all, cases.

Also present is a phenomenon known as "gaslighting" plus many other things.

Sounds like I need to come visit you again !

The Only thing I know is--- We date who we are.

To many fish in the sea for anyone to pick one  that has core compromising values,traits or charasteristiscs.

As grown and date more people- we learn what works for us.

Every choice has its consiquences.

However, we need to be wise when we seek a mate.

For plenty of people are not honest. That is why its nice to take our (when dating) to see if they are who they say they are...actions speak louder than words...