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Presented for yor consideration: Who we are and what we want.
g2 8968 reads
posted

Ok, indulge me in a little psycho-babble as I continue to struggle to explain the “purge of the providers” that recently took place on the LA board along with the recent Troubles, as Chrissie calls it (at least nobody got “capped”).  This comes to mind as an issue as I read the thread below on how to “break the ice” with a provider, and then try to reconcile that with the very different attitudes recently expressed on the L.A. board. The technique I’ve used is qualitative segmentation, or mapping, similar to what companies do to help them understand their customers.  

I believe there are two distinctly different groups on TER (ignore subgroups for a while, of which there are many).  Consider the following as a non-judgmental working hypothesis:

First group:  A certain portion of the TER community likes the impersonal aspects of the paid relationship with the broad group of providers.  For them,  the “I don’t pay you to come over, I  pay you to leave” philosophy may apply. To some in this group, an MP may be even better, because you stay, I go and you don’t know where I live etc. They are after the pursuit of physical pleasure and don’t need to make a connection with the woman to enjoy themselves, in fact they may prefer the more impersonal nature of the liaison.  In short, the no strings attached encounter.  

They may have good reasons, too.  Some may be married and find it less likely to form an emotional attachment (i.e. safer).  Or perhaps they can more easily rationalize the “hobby” if it’s just physical.   Some may prefer the “quantity” experience over the “quality” experience (not mutually exclusive, but you know what I mean).  Others may not have the best of luck relating to women, and a more personal provider session will cause them the same anxiety level that they may have experienced while dating which, of course, would diminish their enjoyment.

Second Group:  Seeks the GFE, and makes even a one-hour provider session a mini-date, or maybe much more (dinner date, over night, weekend away).  This group enjoys making a connection with the woman as part of their enjoyment, in fact their enjoyment may hinge on making a connection.  They like to get to know the ladies as people and are likely to become regulars with a small group of favorites. Alternatively, they may also like to explore, but keep coming back to a group of favorites as a sort of “home base.”  They could be single or married, but share as a common characteristic the need for a different type of  emotional fulfillment than the first group.    They may become casual or good friends with their favorites providers who may even serve as de facto girlfriends.  Their long-term friendship may also be a source of stability in both of their lives (financial and emotional).  

Now, to bring this back to the issue of the TER boards and reviews; guys in the first group have no problem evaluating women in the review section because while they may admire the ladies, they feel little attachment to them. It may be a little harsh to suggest they think of the women as objects, but they are clearly able to be more impersonal about their encounters than the second group.  They like the distance and anonymity of an alias, for the same reasons they like it with providers (safe, no strings attached).  This group may also feel providers posting on “their” board is an intrusion on their turf because it’s supposed to be a “guy thing”(one of the quotes was “we’re supposed to talk about them, they’re not supposed to talk about us.”)  In fact, the more a provider posts, the more “real” she becomes as a woman and the more uncomfortable it makes this group of guys (even if only on an unconscious level).  

In contrast, the second group of guys likes the ladies posting for the same reason the first group doesn’t.  The posts make them feel closer to understanding their personalities and differences as individuals.  The board makes otherwise anonymous women become real, and thereby enhances the overall experience.  As you might imagine, this group frequently feels uncomfortable writing reviews because they feel rating a woman objectifies her.  And you can’t comfortably objectify someone you’ve come to know as a person.  So even if the second group feels an obligation to help their brothers, they have mixed loyalties once they’ve enjoyed intimate time with a provider because it's an intrusion on a private experience.  

In the broad sense, the Troubles we experienced on the LA Board can be traced back to the differences in these two groups and the fact that the sets will never fully overlap and, in fact, may always diverge considerably.   The question is how to find enough common ground to reconcile the different mindsets of these two groups and make everybody in the community welcome.

So as Mark Twain said, “If I had more time, I’d have made it shorter.” Any comments?


-- Modified on 6/13/2001 4:19:16 PM

Felicia FoXX9285 reads

Dear G2,

Thank you for that post! Has someone else been reading my mind too? Just had this discussion with another TER member! I am going to reread your post a couple of more times, (it was not brief, ahem!) but captivating, resonant, insightful and meaty enough for me to want to reread it, so as not to miss a thing.:-)

Additionally, might we ask, how do the providers and gents match up properly?  Gfe is not a term all ladies should be using in order to "qualify" as a good providers.  Nor should a gent claim to seek gfe when in fact he prefers to avoid that connection ... how else?

Within that statement lies another question from me: re fear on the man's part that the gfe connection could be emotionally precarious to him? does he appreciate or need or want assurance from the provider that she knows and will respect the boundaries? That all things between them will be mutually, respectfully and consensually paced out in time, regardless of the outcome?  The gain or loss of income to the provider in that relationship?  (In my personal practice, this approach seems to be working very well so far.)

I used to be a masseuse, and similar is true as to how deeply a client allows the masseuse/masseur to penetrate, (as "massage girl", I believe, mentions in another thread) EMOTIONS do come up.  Curious.

I have been talking with an empath as of late about emotional exchanges.  We get intimate to what degree?  Why do sex surrogates work with therapists?

Hmmm, the old brain is rattlin.  Help  :-)

xoxo

ff








-- Modified on 6/13/2001 5:37:57 PM

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LookyLooky9198 reads

....it is not a matter of whether a given situation or individual causes an emotional reaction.

The bottom line is that Emotions are the color of our world.  They are perceptions.  We Feel.  We do not decide to feel (although there are processes which serve to guide the internal mechanism to a certain degree)We simply DO feel....

All the time, whether we are conciously acknowledging it or not.

I like to think of reality as made up of 4 "layers" if you will:

1.  Physical
2.  Emotional
3.  Mental
4.  Spiritual

In that Order!  
From a formational point of view - We are born, We feel, we learn, and finally we develop abstract processes such as identifying with realities larger than the personal.

Once formed, each of these aspects of life become largely inseperable.

We look out of our eyes and other senses at the world and our physical tools draw lines for us on what we see.  We use the mental tools to fill in gaps and intuit detail which is not immidiately apparent.  At this point we are still working with a black and white sketch.

Emotion is the color in the sketch....and we all have a different Pallette based on environment, training, experiences, etc.

Have you ever noticed that nostalgic events in our life color current happenings.  When it rains for instance, I like to walk around in it.  If I am cold and it starts to rain, I actually feel warmer as I get wet.  This is because I have an "anchor" tying the physical experience of walking around in the rain to an overall "feeling" of well being and contentment.  This started when I was in High School and regularly ended up taking loing walks in the rain with my sweetie.  I cannot remember ever being so content as those times.

It is my personal belief that the largest pitfall in this hobby is the fact that most people are unaware that they have a part of themselves which operates all the time whether they like it or not.  Their emotional perceptions of what is going on around them is not acknowledged very often, and frequently because of what folks believe they are "supposed" to be or feel or do - they supress or discount that perception.  Without expression, emotion, which many people liken to Water, builds up...fills up...and ultimately spills over.  The spillage cause anxiety, pain, and people alter their behavior to compensate.  Its kind of like racing to the hospital every time you step on a nail....and thinking that this is the proper solution if it keeps happening.  the proper solution  is to take the nail out of that darn board or actually look where you are going.

Sex seems to link in with all 4 layers of reality in most people.  It is tied to one of the prime facets of our beings - and all living beings actually...The genetically encoded NEED to reproduce.  I am not saying that we all need to have kids...but we are all Hard-Wired to varying degrees to go through the motions (bad pun).  The desire for racial survival is also tied directly to personal survival.  Can you think of a fiecer reaction than one of anyone cornered?

I guess the point I am trying to make with all of this drivel is that We all deal with our emotional perceptions differently.  

Does someone feel threatened by a close tie to a provider?

I think that anyone who has not come to terms with their own personal emotional channel - is going to have a hard time forming bonds with anyone...one which is essentially illicit regardless of circumstances... simply make matters worse.

And before you all go to sleep (assuming you made it this far) - Lets just remember that we live in a country with a 50% divorce rate.  This means that there are a WHOLE lot of people with conflicts between what they feel and what they think they want.

We, in this hobby are in an ideal position to run into the results of that schism.

If I had any wise words on this one it would be
"Trust your heart.  Your mind is frequently too smart for its own good"

Pardon my disjointed ramblings....and frequent typos.


Looky Looky

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g28038 reads

LL,
Thanks for your excellent insight.  The 4 levels of perception of reality you list are similar to Maslow's heirarchy of needs (but reversed order).  Some people never get past perceiving the world on a physical level, others are able to access the emotional and mental that you listed.  Still fewer make it to spritiual.  

I have a friend who is a smart guy (an attorney) but he's never progressed beyond the middle of Maslow's pyramid.  He's content with the physical (and almost OD's on it) and doesn't aspire to anything higher, let alone self-actualization.  Yet his friends realize his frenetic pursuit of physical experiences is because of the void in the other higher areas.  He hasn't yet figured out that more physical perceptions/experiences aren't a substitute for higher order ones.  He's in the "can't get there from here" cycle.  It's obvious to everyone but him (not untypical, hence the phrase Know Thyself).    

So you offer yet another dimension as to how to construct this perceptual map I roughed out.  That is by how we perceive the experience with a provider (level 1-4).  To some it's physical pleasure, to others an emotional or mental connection is also achieved.  Has anyone made it to spiritual yet?  I've read books on "Cosmic Sex" but haven't quite made it yet myself.  I'm still optimistic.

-- Modified on 6/14/2001 1:43:13 PM

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LookyLooky7497 reads

I believe that we experience all levels all the time.  

The kicker is have you extended your concious process into all 4 realms?  this is where our 2 angles on this equation meet methinks.  Where you describe the progression as "achieving" a level, I lay it out as "becoming aware of..."  -this could certainly be taken as an achievement considering the small portion of our race which have gotten there.

So, lets add some stages of learning to further muddy the waters.

1.  Unconcious incompetence - You don't know you don't know
2.  Concious Incompetence - You know you don't know
3.  Concious Competence - you know how, and you have to apply your attention to make it work
4.  Unconcious competence - Figured it out and shelved it for the subconscious to handle as laid out by the ocncioous process on an ongoing basis.

I think that "Cosmic Sex" is what you make of it.  You have it available to you all the time.  most people are not even aware that it exists..which severley drops their chances of finding it.  Practices such as tantra approach it with a series of steps and rituals....intended to create an "awareness" of the potentials of a thought-to-be-understood act.

As you proceed through the beginning rituals and stages of tantra, you become more and more aware of levels of sensation.  As you proceed towrds mastery, the idea is to have "cosmic sex" every time....

Cosmic Sex in my mind is where you exprience the full range of sensations created by intimate closeness with another human being.  I believe that there are many many roads to Mecca...and Tantra and other various sexual/awareness practices are but one option.

To directly answer a point - I also believe that occassionally(very) we are blessed enough to encounter someone whom is, for whatever reason, attuned enough to you (and vice versa of course) to allow an experience like this to take place without Awareness training and discipline.  Thus enters the concept of Soul Mate by some people interpretations....

Now let me stretch wayyy out on a limb here and sum up with this  - perhaps cosmic sex is possible with ANYONE....taking into account the above examples as they pertain to levels of awareness.  

I think we are all too caught up in our differences.  WE all think we know what we want...but for most of us, this is a MENTAL construct - thus incomplete - thus unachievable (the grass is always greener).  If people just listened to what they are feeling/percieving and acted on it, we would all be much happier.

This is great.  I never imagined having this conversation here.  Very very Cool.

Be Well folks.  And as a side note - be very "aware" :) of how good this site is and how lucky we all are to have it...ladies and gentlemen alike.

Looky

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g26863 reads

A comment was made on another board that some of us try to elevate the "hobby" to a level that it is not.  The jist of the post was "sex is sex, nothing more."  Well I'll admit for most people, most of the time that is true.  But I would qualify that by saying, just because you haven't experienced something, don't preclude it as a possibility.

I'm far from an expert, but I practiced some Tantra techniques with a favorite provider for over a year.  The reason I chose to learn with her may be counter-intuitive given my objective of achieving a higher level of bonding, intimacy and maybe even "cosmic sex."  But I worked with the provider because I thought she'd be less judgmental if I made a mistake, more willing to experiment with something new, and less concerned about achieving an orgasm if it didn't happen, than an s.o. (and I was right).  

So it is possible to make it more than "just sex" with the right lady (not all maybe, but probably more than you'd think).  But most of the time, we approach sex with a "dinner in the microwave" mentality- we just don't take the time to make it special.  While there are a lot of good reasons for that in today's world, that approach prevents us from ever enjoying what could be possible.  As you stated, the reason to study and practice some of these advanced techniques with your regular partner/wife/s.o. is so that you can both access these levels quicker and more consistently over time.  It's sometimes difficult to break the sexual patterns of a marriage or steady relationship, but it is possible with a mutual committment to greater intimacy.  Now I've got to go re-read the chapter about Cosmic Sex...

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part_timer5939 reads

you probably hit it right on the head, sir. I think that there probably is a subset of both groups that looks for something more intimate than "wham-bam, thank you mame", but who are able/willing to try to "objectively" review the session (at least on the first visit since there hasn't been any type of relationship formed yet). I for one, have written reviews of most of the ladies that I have seen, but have never written a followup on someone that I have repeated with. Some of these have been particularly difficult to write (often having to be rewritten to satisfy the powers that be) if I felt even a one-way connection. To be perfectly honest, if I had a paying membership, I probably would have written half as many reviews. For those reading the reviews for insight, this would have resulted in far fewer reviews of those ladies who I would quantify as 8+ in the experience.
So, while a agree with your two main, very divergent groups, I think that there may be a significant number of us who fall in the middle -- we like the anonimity and lack of emotional attatchment, but want the emotional connection. I realize that sounds a little contradictory, but hey, that's JMHO.
pt

Jeez, the more I read some of you guys, the more longwinded I seem to be getting, or else I'm just thinkin too much.

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g29226 reads

I agree there are several other subgroups I could think of as I wrote that, but tried to keep the comparison along the main dimensions in order to address the questions re. posts and reviews.

Yes, verbosity is contagious.  Maybe we should add a third group that hates my long posts!  :-)

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Felicia FoXX7038 reads

I like your posts.  Just remembered when you teased JP, lol. That was the "ahem" part.  But then Ive always been mean to you, haven't I G2 ;->>

xoxo

ff

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g29152 reads

And I deserve that too.  I have since apologized to JP for my surly behavior and have come to respect and appreciate his first-rate mind, if not always his editing. :-)

Warmest regards,
G2

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Felicia FoXX11137 reads

Acch, Sir G2, Surly, or Churlish, surely Lady Felicia TRULY had no ill thought of thee in such manner; however, wished only to lovingly taunt and tease thee, Sir;

Alas! forgive thou me i beg of thee, do, I will drop my hanky and flutter my lashes ... as I do find thyself to be a man of fine character and wit.  

Lady FeliciaFoxx of Forced Captivity in Ivory Tower with
Computer, Quickly Losing her Memory ;->

-- Modified on 6/13/2001 7:35:16 PM

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gigabyte8277 reads

Good post G2!
I think your thoughts protray the polarization in the types of posts we have seen for sure. But as I read the message, thoughts comes to me that the reverse could be, in fact is true.

Some providers could  equally "objectify" men. We have heard of or experianced the ripoffs. You are the human wallet. You are my next car payment. Don't touch me there, I don't do that!

Then there is the provider middle of the road. I will provide you with an experiance that makes you FEEL like I care. Boy what a chump! I am a great actress.
We are all vulnerable when we allow ourselves to really feel.

Maybe I shouldn't let my guard down with this gal. Maybe she is like that other one that almost made me believe it was real...

I wander between these two viewpoints in my own hobbiest life. I have met a woman on the first meeting, I am so smitten with that I want to take her to Tahiti on my next assignment. And the next time I see her I get a quiz about how come I am 10 minutes late (I was at the ATM line getting $$$). If you only knew how far I would have really gone for you. You blew it baby. See ya. But you know I still know she is a pretty cool lady. Maybe I should call. Yeah but remember what she said... Damn that sounded like my ex.

I cared about her, how could she say that!
"Quick put up the deflector shield now Mr. Spock!"

Yet I have made one of the most amazing gfe connections at a local MP. I have never felt that kind of warmth and passion in my life. And am just torn up after it closed (LE wise), that I will probably never see her again. How could I let myself "feel" that way about a girl I - well you know - that I paid? Because she was really cool and special. Her eyes lit up when she saw me. She melted in my arms like lovers really do. How many women have I seen who were not "her" ?
Quite a few.
Should I put the deflector shield up so I don't ever feel this sad again? The others I have seen since don't measure up to her. I didn't connect. Is that new girl I just saw an object to me now? Or did our chemistry not gel?

Am I only trying to fill an emotional void? Is this really an addiction? Maybe.

Alas as a spiritual journey takes you to the fact that if you don't want to feel pain - you cannot feel joy either. A coin has heads and tails. And that if you don't want any pain in your life your only choice is not to feel at all. And maybe along the way we find out who we really are, and a better for it.

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Felicia FoXX9011 reads

Good God, Gigabyte. Your post really touched me.   No need to suffer that much. Or maybe, a need to do such.  Feeling is a gift. Sometimes, joy, sometimes, pain, as you stated, yourself.
Remember to be mindful, and not feel the need to Mindf**k yourself.  Try to be kind to yourself,  be aware, aware of each tenderness, each exhale, as you have shown you are, can be and have been, so keep BEING.  Dear Heart, know your boundaries and within those boundaries, fly!  when you change the boundaries, know you are doing that.  Always at risk,  given.

You showed us in your post your capacity for love,  but somewhere there was a quantum leap into your pain.  Into the past.  Into comparisons.  Now self questioning, questioning can be purposeful...to a point.

It sounds to me that the lady you met and you were very real, yet somehow displaced in our timespace. (Yeh, I know I'm sounding new age now, but afterall, I am a scifi nut).  Where did that saying, timing is everything come from?  Afterall.  You had a wonderous taste of something...not something that failed, but something that brings you to the NEXT LEVEL.  Life enhancement through love.  Easy?  Hrrrrmph.

Okay ... I give up.  I am a lunatic with a lot of prayer, faith and hope.  :-))))

Wanna know who taught me all this?  My clients. (And my Mom, until she passed)

xoxo
Much Love and Respect to Both and All.
felicia foxx










-- Modified on 6/13/2001 10:47:35 PM

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gigabyte7644 reads

To ease your concern FF I am a pretty happy guy. I said they were unedited thoughts. Just some of the stuff that wandered through my head on a couple of occasions. I have done something for a career that I love for everyday of my adult life. You would be hard pressed to find a happier guy, most of the time.  I have an amazing memory and like an actor/writer I can replay scenes from my life and relive them when I need to draw on it. I guess I wanted to relay some of what happens when the proffesional relationship gets too close. Which is why it may be easier to objectify (slightly) than to risk getting hurt.

I reread my post, the one thing that I don't think I got across was that there were 2 different providers represented by that stream of consiousness. On the one hand there was the upscale provider who was really cool, and very beautiful - but when she let her guard down, wow ! Some guy did her bad and she was going to let me know the minute I got slightly out of line. The bad GFE...Actually more of a "ginger" type. The second was an incredible mp gal that I looked forward to seeing every saturday like a girlfriend then poof she disappears.  The good GFE.... more of a "Mary Anne" The one that others tend to be compared to now.

The two sides of the coin. Heads & Tails. Kinda dramatic.

The pain in either case wasn't that life wrecking. Just messes with you for a short while. Like what just happened there??? A small car wreck that shakes you up for awhile. Like I said my ability to feel pain is equal to my joy.

I thought about this during my commuting today. Some gals maybe GFE's but not all of my girlfriends were that great. We say GFE - but a lot of people have had bad relationships. So that is my reasoning to why some guys have the shield up. Hopefully that isn't me - now anyway.

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g29964 reads

Gigabyte,
You raise an equally valid and interesting point about "mapping" the range of providers, I'm not sure I'm qualified to do so (of course, some would say I'm not qualified to to the guys either).

But your post hit on another issue I've thought about a lot but don't know how to explain easily.  But it's basically how the providers never really know what's in our heads when they see us.  By that I mean our emotional state, our psychological needs etc.  Have we just lost an s.o., are we angry, need to feel a woman can love us again, want a shoulder to cry on, or just the attention of a beautiful woman to make us forget what we've been through (these are just some examples based on my own experiences after break-ups).  Of course, sometimes we've just been going through a dry spell and want to be with someone while the dating outlook is bleak.

I think the good providers have a sixth sense about people and can pick-up on a lot of these things.  Many of them have even discussed in past threads how the job is so much more than we guys might think.  Nobody ever posts about the time they needed a shoulder to cry on, nor do they write a review about how they couldn't take anymore rejection etc.  We men only see the side we're willing to discuss, but the ladies see the other side too.  For every guy that just wants to do the deed, there's another one that's part of the sexual or relationship walking wounded.    

Sometimes I think we project on these ladies what we need at the time of our meeting.  They can't always know what our needs or state-of-mind are and it can drastically change our perception as to how the session went and whether it met our expectations, hence YMMV.  

-- Modified on 6/13/2001 11:05:36 PM

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Felicia FoXX9385 reads

From Dear G2 to Et Al (who is Al, anyway?)

This "Sixth Sense" was clarified for me while learning to teach aerobics and simultaneously studying kinesiology at a university.  I needed expereince and, WOW! CASH! Teaching in a related field (aerobics ~ dance/physed). Cool, easy money, in my field, i love to teach, credits to my degree, until I realized I had to deal with real people.  

The thrust of this was/is ... When you teach class, any class, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO IS WALKING THROUGH THE DOOR INTO YOUR CLASS ... DID HE/SHE JUST LOSE HIS MOTHER/SPOUSE/CHILD.

Somethng I try to remember despite my own selfish, anxiety performance. Some clients are surprised that I suffer anxiety.  Why?  Because I pray that I will be able to ascertain and facilitate that which is needed, which is why, prayer is a Good Thing.


xoxo

ff





-- Modified on 6/13/2001 11:53:57 PM

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zorro8058 reads

I treat the experience like seeing a good movie.  Sure, I enjoy it while I am there and hopefully it has a lot of twists and turns and of course a wonderful climax.  However, once its over, hopefully I walk away with a smile on my face that might last an hour or two and I get back to reality, and that's not a bad thing.
I, too, have felt saddened when a favorite provider has disappeared from the scene, but never so much that I wasn't able to find an adequate replacement in a matter of days.  Insensitive?  Maybe, but you said it yourself, even the best of providers are usually just good actresses who make you feel special, as long as the meter is running.
I hope you cheer up and find a meaningful relationship outside of this hobby.  Like I said, best to treat the sessions like a good movie.

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Felicia FoXX6812 reads

when the meter is no longer running, you (figuratively speaking)do have the right to have your life back; and I still have to pick up Jpeg from the vet, although I would bask alone after you leave, in the ether of the memory of our fantasy as long as possible ... never cutting it shorter than I absolutely must.

Any longer, I might sink into a sadness, and try to hang on to the past moments.  (Of course I am speaking of the encounters that go well.)

An encore, or curtain call?  I would hope, but who knows?  Letting go goes beyond the meter.  there are some jobs that would never ever pay enough for the price they exact ...

who knows why this?  Nobody really gets a free ride in any walk of life, or so I believe.

xoxo

ff



-- Modified on 6/14/2001 7:16:22 AM

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