Tread lightly. You are setting yourself up for a classic letdown... sure it feels good and there are some surprises in your own bedroom from time to time, but it's a mirage or is it the iceberg analogy...I'd feel better about what you are saying if you can back off and see yourself 'cause you're almost in too deep.
I didn't really know what would be a good theme that would encapsulate my amorphous questionning state, but the postings awhile back regarding polygamy vs. monogamy keeps floating through my mind. I am a newbie hobbiest and have been with four different women. I felt like I connected with the second one and have seen her several times. Each time the relationship seems to get better and personally closer. I think about our times together often, and it's difficult to go more than a week without seeing her. I am also married. I love my wife very much, and find her very sexually attractive. She seems to enjoy our sexual relating very much and is available as much as she can be given how hard she works. She is not as available as I am, and I get frustrated at times because she is so modest. She is a middle-aged woman who recently immigrated from Japan, and I guess this is quite common. This modesty is execerbated by a very negative body image of herself. This leaves me always hungry for her sexually. This is my third marriage, her second, and we've been together for nearly five years. I was faithful throughout the 28 years of my previous two marriages, and I still love my first wife very much though do not find her sexually attractive.
Now I find myself kissing this new woman goodbye with the same fullness and feelings I have in my chest (and, beating some of you smartalexs to punch, and sometimes down somewhere below the belt), as I do when I arrive at home and kiss my wife. Hence, the confusion regarding monogamy. At times I feel guilty, especially knowing how hard my wife works and how much she truly loves me. This all would seem to make more sense if I didn't find her attractive any longer, and harbored anger and resentments toward her. There's been times when, just hours after being with my GFE, I am ravenous for my wife. Poor momma doesn't know what has hit her but she likes it allot. There is an argument whether seeing a provider helps or hurts a marriage. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Tread lightly. You are setting yourself up for a classic letdown... sure it feels good and there are some surprises in your own bedroom from time to time, but it's a mirage or is it the iceberg analogy...I'd feel better about what you are saying if you can back off and see yourself 'cause you're almost in too deep.
the Hobby is just that. A place of entertainment and a fantasy.
It is easy to enjoy being with a lady and think she is great when you are only having sex with her but when it is over you have to return to the real world.
This is like many other pastimes. Once the game is over savor the moment but then step off the field and return to life.
I think it all depends on what you do with this opportunity... Does it make you more honest and more accepting of your spouse? Does it make you more in love with her... (ie accepting of who she is and who she isnt?)
well it sounds like it makes you decieve her. It makes it sound like you are putting her health at risk by fucking around or being with providers...
Now if you have been honest with her... told her what you need and want... If you have shared with her and she is ok with your hobby then... it might be a help... but fooling yourself or justifying this hobby is an addicts folly.
With that said... am I any better than you? NO! I have taken on that I am a dream stealer for my wife. (Her dream of how a marriage would be like) and I am aware that every time I get sucked back into this hobby I am stealing her dreams of what a husband would be... and if I want my dream wife I need to be a dream husband. the moment I give up taking care of myself... she is free to take care of me. (because I am taking care of her)
Does that work all the time? no I am human and I fuck up... it sounds like you are fucking up right now...
but hey... what the fuck do know?
Here's my two cents, and you may not like it. You say that you love your wife, yet you take a very serious risk of breaking her heart, and hurting her. Is your foray with providers worth that risk to you? Your wife genuinely loves you and you are sexually attracted to her. That puts you way ahead of the game right there.
Just don't make the mistake of thinking that what you are getting from a provider is love. It's not, it's her job. You are getting some extra sex on the side, and it may wind up destroying your marriage. Maybe in some way it helps you, but you are deceiving your wife and in my book that is never a good thing for a marriage. Sorry.
Monogamy has never worked for me so I'm the last guy qualified to judge. It is important to keep perspective on who you have chosen to share your life with vs. a woman that you pay to have sex with.
Don't get me wrong, the pay for play stuff can be very rewarding (it certainly is for me!) but it is what it is. Weather you are using P4P as an outlet for your excessive sexual energy or trying to find an alternative away from a woman who just doesn't excite you anymore the end result is the same. You are deceiving a woman that you have made a promise to. If you can live with that fine, if not...well, you have decisions to make.
That is not an easy one to answer without a lot of if's and however's.
On the whole, the hobby is certainly better than having an affair with a neighbor or a work mate for reasons that are pretty obvious. So, by the measure, it helps the marriage by not creating an explosive condition by which it could end.
On the other hand, getting caught (like I did) will often end a marriage (like it did mine.)
That, however, begs the question of whether or not staying in a marriage at any cost is a good thing.
I would argue that it is not, and I have no regrets (though a lot less money and a lot of ongoing legal bills.)
Hey, thank's to all of you for your quick response. It seems I have allot of soul searching to do. From what I'm reading, self-deception is a killer, and the decisions I make must be done while balancing taking an ongoing personal inventory and remembering the woman who really loves me. I would still like to hear people's thoughts on whether monogamy is realistic, and are men and women capable of loving, fully, more than one person.
Thank's again.
I think the answer to this question has as much to do with what those that you love are willing to accept. Honestly, I don't know any women who would be willing to play second fiddle-be one of two or three-no matter strong your feelings may be for each of them.
I don't want to write a whole essay on my thoughts regarding polygamy....
(If you are interested, please email me privately.)
But, being involved in a polygamous relationship is my dream. Unfortunately, these sorts of relationships often involve conservative Christians/FDLS etc... Yet, I continue to seek out this type of relationship.
One of my favorite quotes is:
"I would rather be third in line of a good man than the only wife of a jerk."
With the right partner/s and sister wives, I would not feel inferior or as though I was playing "second fiddle" to another. I believe that a man who truly wants a polygamous family structure to work will be attentive to all of the women involved.
Likewise, dutiful sisters should be attentive and sweet to each other, put aside their egos, and open their hearts to love.
-- Modified on 11/8/2007 3:09:30 AM
Thank you so much for your response. It got more to the basic issue that I'm struggling with; can a man or woman truly love deeply more than one person. If so, where in our society is there allowance for that without deception?
There is a range of one to ten.
The tens are married for life and could not cheat if you offered them the world.
In the middle are the guys who like their marriage up to a point and would think about cheating if they knew they could get away with it but they are never sure.
The ones are guys who you find at weddings popping various nieces under the coats in the cloak room. The first part of their pants to wear out is the zipper.
I'd say I'm a three on this scale.
I don't know what vows the two of you swore to when you were married. In modern marriage ceremonies vows can vary pretty widely.
If you promised monogamy then you don't really have much room for self deception. Nor a lot of room for your "personal inventory". You have deceived and apparently are prepared to continue to deceive your wife. Further despite your presumed best efforts to "hobby responsibly" this particular deception puts your wife at additional risk. You have decided that the benefit to you out weighs the risk. Your wife is unaware of the risk she is taking.
Put the shoe on the other foot. Suppose that your wife was seeing other men with out your knowledge, however responsibly. Would you like the fact that she deliberately deceived you and put you at some greater risk?
Separate from the intellectual question about the practicality of monogamy is the very real obligation that you have to your wife. If you are in an open marriage then go for it. Otherwise there are the more basic issues of honesty and the mutual expectation of safety.
From my perspective the only way that hobbying makes a marriage better is if it is out in the open and acceptable to both parties. Otherwise you are lying to the person who, at least in theory, shares your life and that is not a good thing. I realize that many of us here have ended up in situations where there are untenable marriages that are not easily ended for any number of valid reasons, children for example, the trust and love is gone along with the intimacy and the parties are just holding out until the kids are older. But from the representation you provide that doesn't apply in this case. You say your wife loves you, enjoys intimacy with you, and you claim to love her.
I suggest that you take a break from the hobby for awhile and seek counseling. Not because its a panacea but because it will help you be honest with yourself. Men and women are generally not stupid nor insensitive to the people they spend a great deal of time around. If you continue to hobby eventually she is going to figure out that something is going on. Who knows, maybe once you sort yourself out if you still feel the need the two of you can work out an arrangement that accommodates that need. But the pain of your dishonesty should she learn this on her own will be far worse. If you truly love her and hurt her like that you won't much like the face in the mirror when you shave every morning either.
Good luck
-J
Conceptually, polygamy is a great deal. It provides for the closeness of a loving relationship as well as the variety of having multiple partners. It gets tricky because it involves people, with all of their flaws. Do the women have the same opportunity for outside partners? How is jealousy managed? How are financial matters handled amongst multiple families?
The significant difference, in my mind, between polygamy and hobbying is the knowledge and permission of the spouse.
my wife has very little desire for sex. Long story and not important here. She's still very hot looking at 56 but the hormones for her are just gone. What do I do? Fuck the neighbor? Fuck the secretary? That's big time trouble.
By "hobbying"...a very nice, sanitary, fun term for: cheating - I get the sexual release and the nice touch of a beautiful woman. I don't get that from my wife.
Don't get me wrong. I love my wife more than I can say and I don't like having to do this. But I'd go crazy without sex. And she hasn't had any interest in 3 years. None. She doesn't cheat, she has just lost it. Therapists, doctors, etc. can't change it.
So, again, what do I do? Jerk off...can't even do that anymore...I just get too angry at having to do it.
I cheat. Carefully. And it keeps the household sane, me "normal" and her quiet. She might even know but "doesn't want to know."
As we always say: YMMV