Kathy's got valid points - this business is about sex for money, and no one should ever forget that.

There are two engines that make this business work.  The first is that the rules are clear; there's no room for ambiguity or uncertainty.  You know what you're getting.  What a relief from civvie life!  Nothing uncertain about a hundred bucks, nothing uncertain about the way you feel when you're in her, right?

The second thing that makes it work is that most hobbyists believe in magic.  We'll shell out hundreds of dollars for time with a pretty girl, and then, believing in magic, think that she's sweet on us because she does what we just paid her to do.  Or, if the magic doesn't kick in with one escort, we'll line up another and, in some corner of our minds, entertain the fantasy that there will be magic when she opens the door.  Don't believe me?  Read the reviews. Read the posts.  What do you think guys are talking about when they say they were thinking with their little head and not their big one?  

On the extreme end, the belief in magic leads to obsessional behavior, stalking and other forms of abuse.

There's nothing wrong with believing in magic so long as it's kept in rein -- but a lot of guys would be a lot happier if they'd stop believing all their own bullshit, take a chill pill, and just have fun.

However, I do think there are some connections between certain people, but the fantasy that we have special feelings for all our clients or always enjoy it is another thing. Perhaps we're not always turned on by a client and it does take some acting, whether it's acting from the heart or -- for some -- putting on a Academy-Award-winning performance. It doesn't matter. As long as you're having a great time and there's a connection while you're there, forget about the rest. Everyone:  Please stop trying to analyze this business to death. It will get to you if you do that. Just enjoy the company.

For the most part, I enjoy everyone I'm with, because I put myself into that mindset going in -- a positive attitude -- and try to find something exceptional about each person. However, there is nothing worse than being with someone who continually brags about how good he is when I'm really not that attracted to him. I'm sorry, but that's reality. It doesn't mean I'm not enjoying myself but this is a business.

I think GFE sometimes gets mistaken for being someone's "mistress." The two are different.

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 6/29/2006 1:35:06 PM

There are some ladies who claim to love every experience she's ever had.  Kathy happens to be the other extreme.  Most ladies fall somewhere in the middle.  Both examples are reality at one time or another.  

If you're worried your ATF is faking, she wouldn't be your ATF if she wasn't doing a good job of it and you weren't having a good time.  As CiaraPHX said, don't overanalyze it.  It is what it is.  

Kate

...a simple question: 'What do providers like?'  I think the question was asked for nothing but honorable reasons.  Are there things that most providers like that a client could do that is pleasing to them?   From this many proviers eventually responded with nice comments about attitude, cleanliness, being kind, being a gentleman, etc.  Kathy's reply, while honestly pointing out the biz side of this hobby, was unduly harsh. Let's keep the tone and likely intention of the original question in mind and then consider her tone.  Be real folks.  The backlash to her reply is not the sound of heartbroken guys learning that a provider's world does not revolve them.  The backlash was at the sound of a piss-poor attitude.  Like you say Ciara, connections can happen and they are nice when they do.  The original post was simply asking for advice on how to better the odds of making that happen.  Kathy pissed all over his question.

As one who absolutely cannot perform if the provider is not into it, I have a choice between self-delusion, or really finding and cultivating a provider who IS into me. A few years ago I lucked into the perfect arrangement.  I became her sole client and she was my only "provider", though it became a lot more personal than that over time.  She has moved on to a regular relationship and so we stopped having sex, but we remain really good friends.  The interesting thing was that both of us consider it some of the hottest sex we have ever had.  She felt free to try every fantasy I could come up with, and ended up writing some of her own for us to try.  Still looking for another situation like that.  The closest thing I have found is a girl in China I see when I am there, but obviously it's not as satisfying...

Why not just have a regular relationship?  Well, everyone on this board can list plenty of reasons, so we'll leave it at that...

As seen on this board: Cock, Cash, Cum. If a guy has any delusions other than that, so be it, but you can always find other diversions if you don't think it's worth it. Any of us can pursue relationships to one degree or another and I suspect most of us have dates where the price is not as steep unless you count the aggravation a civie will give you when you don't call every day.  Those of you who need all the trimmings to get a rise. well, I understand that, but don't for one minute believe its more than your dead presidents. Sure, she could like you as a person, and yes, she may even treat you like an old friend. Just don't ask for credit or say you are short a few bucks. You may get a pass once if you are a regular, but that's about it and your "love-affair" will be history. It's about respect and paying to play. Do that, and you'll be the best lover on the planet for that hour or two.

-- Modified on 6/29/2006 5:39:19 PM

Well there are now two threads dedicated to Miss Kathy, and instead of replying to each I'll just make this one post covering all my thoughts on the "Kathy Conundrum".

I should also preface this post by saying that referrences to "she" or "her" in regard to "Miss Kathy" are simply because "she" claims to be a female and I have no proof elsewise.

It's kind of weird, in the time I have been reading these boards, I have seen countless posts that say the same things "Miss Kathy's" posts say...but they never got their own thread, let alone two, dedicated to the authors of those posts.
Perhaps it is because all those posts tend to be made by men. Those posts also didn't get the replies within the threads they were made in the attention that her posts have.

Now, in the first thread dedicated to "Miss Kathy" she is called a streetwalker, a "basic hooker", that she has a pimp, and "a whore like her"...interesting, to me, that clients that frequent ladies in this business still see fit to denigrate on some class system. That does give pause to wonder how many wonderful ATF "providers" are simply an  unagreed with opinion away from being just an object...that object being a whore.
If a lady insists that she loves her time with a given client and that they have a special connection she is a provider, an escort, an ATF...if she gives indication that the special connection is that he pays her she is a whore a basic hooker...

One poster even said in that first thread,
QUOTE:"negativity this "person" spews hardly makes her qualify as a person."
So, if a lady says she wouldn't see her clients if they weren't paying her she is barely human?
Because, that is the main gist of all the "negative" posts by "Miss Kathy":  That she and her clients have a good time, not because she loves them, or has a special connection with them, or because they "turn her on" but because they pay her to have a good time....and that makes her hardly qualify as being a person?

(quick aside: I have seen a couple posts that I would be reticent to call the posters actions "human", but those were one where a guy wanted to know the best way to slip his SO an antibiotic to treat an STD he gave her, puting her health and life at risk so he wouldn't get caught playing around.   The other was a guy whose wife, after puting on a negligee [which he saw as a tease, because we all know women never wear nice things because they like them, but only so that her husband's dick will get hard] suggested he masturbate, and he got right to the edge of climax and then went into the bedroom and used his "tastey bitch" wife, mother of children, as a cum rag...and was quite proud of himself for doing so.)

It would seem that the only thing that makes inhuman whores people and providers is that they like each client more than all others (oh, and if you can't do the math on that one, it's OK...because that equation can't be done).

Now, I have argued before that I don't believe ladies are in this "just for the money" to my mind (though my mind is questionable at best) this is far to intimate (if even only physically) and, to some extent, vulnerable a business to have money be the only reason to do it.  Now, the other reasons?  they are, I am sure, as many and as varied as the ladies in this business.

The thing that strikes me most about the "Miss Kathy" posts and threads are the guys replying to them, and how they are replying.  When  a guy makes a post saying the same things guys don't come out of the woodwork to argue that the providers they see "get wet", or give them so much extra time, or tell them things they tell no other client, or share so much of themselves...all of a sudden it is supposedly a "provider" saying it's the money and the guys have to defend why it's not...what's the difference in who bears the message?

If the message is so wrong, why argue it? Why attempt to duhumanise and denigrate her? it only gives her and her posts more attention, and her more reason to reply and say more of what it is that those replying find so objectionable.

If they fear perhaps she isn't wrong...if they fear that she may be telling the truth, that all the ladies that assured them that they were special might have been lying, that they "get wet" not because they turn them on so much as it is a autonomic response, etc...why argue?

Only reason to argue that I can think of, right now, is that they're not trying to convince Miss Kathy, they're trying to convince themselves.
When it's another guy saying such things they can write it off as that being his experience, but with them, when they are with providers, it's different it isn't just the money...for him maybe, but not for them.
But, if it is a provider that is purported to have said it, then they have room to doubt exactly how special they are, because what if that really is how their ATFs thinks of them?  What if the extra time is just about keeping a customer?  What if she really isn't turned on by them?  What if all their insecurities aren't just psychological demons but flesh and blood facts?

Here's the thing...it doesn't matter.
This is, by far, the easiest and most straight forward relationship anyone can ever have in this life.  
You want certain activities, the illusion that you have that hot GF who wants you, and that time spent in your company is a joy and desired.
She, in exchange for specific remunirations is willing to give you all of that.
It's clear, it's simple and it's straight forward...and whether or not it's "real" doesn't matter.

The irony of it all is that guys will read the TER reviews, have a shopping list of acronyms, and will look at pictures as if they are forensic scientists looking for crime scene clues of airbrushing, or any photoshop trickery, or how if she has her picture taken with her arms behind her head it means her breatsts sag...or any number of things...then they will compare that to her price and doing a cost / benefit comparison analysis, will determine if she is worthy of seeing....but DoC forbid if the lady does anything less than make the same guy, that qualified and quantified everything about her physical appearance and sexual abilities, think that he is the best lover, most special client and most intimate physically, emotionally or whatnot experience she has had...because then apparently she is barely a person and a whore.  

Most of the ladies I have had occassion to talk with do like their clients, some because they are good behind closed doors, some because they are charming, some handsome, some funny, some sweet, some smart, some kind, some for all those reasons and more, etc.  They generally can find something they like in each, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would see any of them if they weren't being paid to do so.  

For every "Kathy of 48th Street" post there are ten posts by guys saying the same thing, and for each of those there are posts by guys sure their ATF is in love with them, or that will refer to his ATFs throughout the years as "girlfriends" even though he always paid them, and talk of his "relationships" with them.  

The truth, most likely, lies somewhere in the middle, for the ladies this is their work, so they want to get paid, but they do probably like the majority of their clients, just maybe not in the way the clients want to, hope to, or think they are liked.

You’re absolutely right.  One of the toughest parts of the hobby is realizing that you like your ATF a little too much, and it is best for both of you that you stop seeing her.

I really can't blame them, but they also need to be realistic. With a GFE experience there is the chance that a man might misinterpret something different from the experience. That's why it's called "girlfriend experience." Hint: "Experience." If you're in doubt just ask a provider. I think many of us are caring people but would tell a client/friend the truth if something could become permanent. You know, we're human beings with feelings too. I know I would never want to hurt anyone, whether he's a paying customer or otherwise. I've always been honest -- probably too honest at times -- but men will always know where they stand with me, and I think anyone who has ever spent time with me has a good time and feels my compassion, sensuality and sensibility. If they don't, then they're only looking to get laid. And, you know what, that's okay.

Yet they wonder why we have to remind them occasionally that it is a job, just like their jobs they go to while earning a living.  And God forbid they should ask for the truth. Most couldn't handle it.

A lot of us do like our clients and some have even become friends, but there are those that are not as pleasant as others, just like in the dating world. Let's be real guys:  If you weren't getting paid to go on a date with someone who didn't turn you on, would you be in a relationship with her? Maybe, but it's highly unlikely. I find some of the respondents from Kathy's post are men who are spoiled by some of us these days, so they succumb to responding to this woman and calling her a "whore" just because she's admitting that -- although she has a good time with her clients -- she is only doing it for the money. Then you hear more nasty verbage, and the trickle-down effect of negativeness takes over the board. Gees! You'd think we were crucifying Jesus.

How many of us would have thrown rocks at Him? Or, how many would stand up and defend him, facing ridicule from others? Interesting, isn't it? Joan of Arc did such a thing and she is now considered a hero (although for different reasons). There will always be rebellion from people who are overexcited or want change.

You're right! It's easy hiding behind an alias, but you can see why some of these women hide. For her, it would be marketing suicide. It's also easy for men to hide behind their alias names because they don't have pictures, a website detailing personal and explicit information about themselves or reputations to uphold (except for being clean, polite and paying). That's the easy part.

Another reality check:  I'm not ashamed to admit that if I won 10 million dollars tomorrow I'd quit escorting. If I want to get laid, I'll find some hot stud at a vacation resort or actually meet and fall in love with someone. That's reality, gentlemen.

And men think they've come a long way in this business. Obviously not.

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 6/29/2006 7:08:34 PM

-- Modified on 6/29/2006 7:16:32 PM

"a lot of guys would be a lot happier if they'd stop believing all their own bullshit, take a chill pill, and just have fun."
To this I will give an, "Amen!"

But back to magic...
In case it gets lost down there I've linked the thoughts I just posted...

Be Kathy a man or woman behind the moniker; ‘Kathy of 48th Street’ is a wonderful addition of candor in this forum.

 Many hobby boards have become such a putrid quagmire of delusional WhiteKnights chasing and protecting a fantasy promoted by a gaggle of prima-donnas; an air sickness bag is needed next to the monitor incase the bullshit overwhelms.

 Providers are sexual wild cats because they make bank being so. They do get certain clients that they favor and even some that they become friends with. The majority however of their "great" clients are the ones that they have good sex with, and then don't even need to think about until the next appointment with them is made.

 For those who cringe at Kathy's candor there are syrupy sweet cyber sites where delusion and fantasy is queen and closely protected by a guard of sycophants vying to be king.

IMO it is to our betterment and this boards merit that Kathy has voice here.

...instead of an alias.  I would like to see if her reviews confirm that she is 'all that'

Ciara, you've always said such nice things.... Did you just end your post by lumping all men into a single category, and accusing us of making no progress?

Just because a couple of guys get a little excited and take it personal, please don't think of them as speaking for most of us. Most all are aware that it's a business. There are no perfect illusions, although some are better than others. Some men are on this board to extend the illusion and commune a bit with the minds, not just the bodies.

I think Kathy shocked some people because she intended to shock, and a few responded predictably. I have no doubt there is a basis in Kathy's remarks, but just because there's truth does not mean it's a comfortable subject.

Like any career, some folks have to be dragged to work and some can't be kept away. Yours is a tough job. I've always said it. It's one of the things that makes any of the gals endearing to most of us guys. I doubt there'd be many left in the business if you'd all won 10 million. Few would dispute that reality.

But - the shades of truth can hurt, and some don't like having their face shoved in it if they can help it, thus, the occasional little boy tantrum. There are many truths.. I am overweight, balding and growing old. It's a fact. I do not turn away from it. However, if I was to find myself hanging around a discussion board that focused on that subject I, and all us heavy old monks would probably start to complain.

I've read untold posts here from men that have tipped their hat in admiration. Not from ignorance of your efforts or for arrogance of their own charm, but from our understanding of the tremendous sacrifice your business requires. That's reality, too.

Hugs right back attcha gal,
b

As many providers will fall for their clients as vice-versa.  It has been documented here that some very experienced providers have fallen for their clients.  (But of course: everything here is fiction!)  We're human, our emotions act on us, and sometimes they insist... unexpectedly.  

Ms. Webbie said that it's the most straightforward and simple human relationship.  To the contrary, there's nothing simple about sex between human beings.  Most organisms are very mechanical about sex.  Not us.  

Kathy and others have said that this is a business and only a business.  I disagree, but not because I'm a hopeless romantic.  No, I didn't get into this thinking that I would fall for a lady, (it has almost happened despite myself) nor did I think any lady would fall for me.  IMHO, it isn't just a matter of business on the providers' side  making money from their client' horniness.  Business is always a necessity here, but there's a percentage of ladies who also meet their emotional and sexual needs in the hobby.  (BebeDoll comes to mind.)  There's at least another percentage who adjust and learn to meet some of their needs in the hobby.

However, sex isn't just about emotion, it's about power, too, and the love of it.  As Jenna Jameson said, (paraphrasing) the one who needs the relationship the least is always the one with power.  That in itself can be a strong emotional reward.  It's not that I romanticize things, it's that some people feel more control and power if they claim it's so detached.  

Men can make the mistake that trysters are insincere.  What they fail to understand is this: material rewards can melt certain ladies' inhibitions as much as any drug or any seductive turn of phrase.  Nature made them that way.  I remember one thread where a guy was puzzled as to why a shift mistress could have sex with a client she only met 10 minutes before, but when the same lady is on a civvie first date she doesn't go beyond a kiss.  

Some women get into the business by "accident."  They have sex with a guy who then pays them out of the blue, and then suddenly they stay in it.  It's intoxicating.  They loved being swept off their feet... by cash; still those same women will call it the best sex they had in their life.

Yet, IMO, if the business is satisfying, it's a very demanding and stressful life.  All ladies will have the nerve racking clients, but then there's the clients they might fall in love with if they aren't careful.  So, they fight both emotions.  It can cause callouses.  Then there's LE, the stalkers, the secrecy from one's family and friends, the jealous wives, the jealous and overly competitive fellow trysters, the diseases, possible pregnancies.  It's no wonder that no matter how satisfying it can be, it wears women out.  Nobody can recommend this business to anybody else.    

I've rambled, but I wanted to finish one point: I said I never came into this thinking I would fall in love or anyone would fall in love with me.  However, after I met my first few ladies, I do hope to meet other ladies and let them know that I respect them and their lives, and between sessions make them feel like they have a friend and a supporter.  I think you're all quite a blessing to the world.  You deserve all the money that you make; moreover, you deserve respect.  I think even Kathy is quite wonderful, too, for she's honest about herself, for all her presumptuousness that other ladies are the same.

-- Modified on 6/30/2006 1:37:29 AM

-- Modified on 6/30/2006 2:46:07 AM

I realize it's easy to take collateral damage from criticism of our fellow members of the Testosteroni Club, but wear some kevlar shorts and you'll be all right.  

She said some men.  I'm usually shocked at how many.  I'd be tempted to say "many."  

The only thing I criticize Kate for is the assumption that all or most women think like her.  There's little basis for assuming 50 percent of the population think like you, even if they are the same sex.  

-- Modified on 6/30/2006 10:24:58 PM

That concept is so hard after I met you!  (wink)

Just plugging my creation.  

You're right about over analyzing.  I need to get laid!!

Pandering and definitely playing both sides...

-- Modified on 6/30/2006 2:20:44 PM

She could have made her point less harshly. I agree. I'm just pointing out the reality of some of the men that responded to her which -- in itself -- was no better than her response. That just shows their lack of social engagement as well.

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 6/30/2006 5:52:45 PM

As I've said before, it's easy to misinterpret anyone's post. I didn't mean that "all" men aren't making progress, but it seems that a large number are not. Even judicial systems point to that darlin'. If you're not one of these guys, then you shouldn't worry or take it personally. I don't take it personally when I hear someone talking about another provider (unless he is just being mean-spirited, then I'll probably come to her defense like I do with most people, be it male or female.)

I've been very careful about posting my opinion at times on this board when I thought the subject matter was ludicrous, and thank goodness I have not responded. But, sometimes, I am human too and get tired of all the BS. Am I not allowed to state my opinion? Or will it hurt my business and other's feelings?  

Many know that I am a compassionate person and also somewhat witty at times. I guess growing up with a lot of men around gave me that "sort-of manly intuition." I guess that could be a good thing and also a bad thing being that I'm a woman. The only thing I do not like is when people are intentionally trying to rebuttal something that has hurt him/her by also being an ass. I've probably done it too. We're all guilty at times. It's those people who cannot apologize and be objective about themselves whom I cannot tolerate. Communication is key to everything.

Hugs back at ya' babe!
Wink,
Ciara

You are truly gifted with great verbage. Like that? Great verbage. Tee-he!

I love you for your mind, baby, and anything else is just a perk in my opinion. You are always willing to stand up to people and always thoughtful about how you post. You are never mean-spirited and always know when to apologize. How many people can say that about themselves?

Hugs & kisses (all over),
Ciara

While I have stated that amount of respect I have towards the ladies I see and my ATF in particular can be exrtremely felt, I do not forget the very nature of the bond.  I am there for the GFE and feeling of being treated like a man.  She is there for the $$$ and maybe some of connection as I am.  I chose this avenue to go instead of an extramarital affair with the choas and destruction it can bring.  I want to be treated like I am the only guy in their lives (I know it s not the case), but still be able to go home to my family.

I am one of posters that were highly offended by Kathy's comments.  I did not hide behind an alias and I stand by my remarks, not all those shooting arrows are willing to admit their opinion.  Some of the points she makes are valid, I do not disagree.  However, she/he makes a conscious effort to be as negative and inflamitory as possible. The underlying message she sends is (to me) the lowest cold-hearted and meanspirited point of view.  She wanted to cause trouble and division and did.

...that's a heavy charge on **this** board.  And I just said I wouldn't pander.

However, what a perfect time to kick off my own presidential campaign.  I'd really bring change.  BBBJ in the oval office?  Every night!!  Complete with a staff of providers on retainer.  You know those boring political fund-raising dinners?  Orgies instead!!  

I'd be a real enviromentalist too.  I say, make love not CO2!

It'd be a different style of leadership, and I'd write my own speeches.  The more I think about it, the more I like your idea!