Do all these working girls have pimps? I can't believe they are all happily on their own as most would have you believe. When you do an incall is there a guy in the utility room? Outcall at your home (which I've never done) is there someone waiting in the driveway?

A totally clueless newbie.
The answer is no. The extreme majority of providers that are on TER do not have pimps, and they are not lurking in closets.
There have been exceptions, but if you do a little homework you can avoid those situations.

If you would ask the same questions about street walkers and bar girls, you would get a different answer.

It's listed below the GD board. Read and lurk on that board, then come back here and ask a more intelligent question. If you take the time to read reviews, and make sure to have vip membership, so you can read the juicy details,  you can learn a lot.

There is a difference in having SECURITY and having a pimp. I don't have to give my money to anyone but my bank account...when I started up and had security I made it so he was around but didn't freak anyone out of make themselves obvious. But i'm in a different kind of area now and don't have that security but not all of us have pimps. I am so anti-pimp...give my hard earned money to some dude or chick for what.... that's crazy. And her driver might or might not be her pimp....when I utilized a driver for outcalls I didn't have him park in front of a guys house or apartment.

If there's one thing Nick Fury's right hand man knows ,is providers ! Ten-hut, ya buncha chicken-scratchin', clueless, newbie idjits !

I don't have a pimp or work for an agency and I never have. Why would anyone ever complain about being independent? I get to keep all of the money I make, and I work when I want to and not when someone else tells me to.

The only people I have to "help me with my business" are professional photographers.  Everything else, I do on my own.

Sir you are absolutely right, don't let anyone tell you all providers don't have pimps. We are all being pimped out daily.

My pimps are:

My landlord
Nevada Lights and Gas
Vons Grocery Store
Costco
Aetna
my nail salon
Car Finance Company
Progressive Insurance
Case Western Reserve University
my hair dresser
Virgin American Airlines
Any hotel I stay in when I tour
My cleaning lady
the slot machines
the black jack dealer
Remy Martin
the outlet malls



Yup those are all my pimps....

Have a great day.

The ladies are the ones who bring in the business; they are aslo the ones who are in control.

In the old days, women were exploited by the business managers named "pimps".  I can't say that was not still going on, but I doubt that is still prevalent.

A sure fire indication is when they post Roses or Diamonds as a payment.

Hey Allure, I thought some of those pimps were exclusively mine...well now I know they get around...damn. A very creative answer to a rather interesting question. Well done !!!!

HA! I'm totally my nail salon's bottom.

Since we're going there my pimps are:

My university (won't say the name), nail salon, cvs, walmart, sally's beauty, ULTA, outlet malls also, Lane Bryant kicks my a-- every 2 weeks, victoria's secret, I pay ebay almost daily, dc yellow cab or arlington red top, priceline or some other hotel site and so on.... lol

You have to be joking..... I see almost everyone say that or petals or clouds or something like that.....sooooo....maybe you think in the same lines as the OP then.

How awful to say such a thing. The vast majority of women in North America are participating free of will, because they like the job, or they like the money.  It's truly ignorant to assume that most women don't aren't capable of choosing this life. We aren't dumb children, and it's misogynistic to assume we must be victims.  The women talk amongst each other and meet each other enough, are participating in fighting for political equal rights, and all of that is enough to inform anyone with an IQ that most are here by choice.

If she's laughing, light spirited and having a good time, she's there because she wants to be.

No guy is going to make enough off of one woman to bother pimping her.  Independents are pimp free.

Admittedly sometimes agencies are pimp-like, pressuring her to see more people in a day then she wants to.

You'll find pimps with street women, in some brothels and in certain foreign countries.

If she seems afraid, emotionally withdrawn, looks like she's been crying, has marks on her body, or you get the distinct feeling she's not emotionally well - I think there's a chance something horrible is going on.

LoL Allure,

I totally agree!!!  My hairdresser is the biggest pimp!  He's flamboyant, doesn't rock gators but he has a mean suit fetish, and he ALWAYS wants his money!  

This is the most ridiculous post ever.  Why is it hard to believe that we're "happily on our own"?  Women run successful businesses everyday, companionship is no different.

And, it could be helpful, for you, to inform us as to how, as you said; "I can't believe they are all happily on their own...." Take a look at your own belief system, in this regard, communicate it your thoughts and feelings behind it, and perhaps some of these lovely ladies will challenge it, or at least inform you as to a different way of thinking about it.

-- Modified on 6/26/2010 2:17:33 PM

Then turn down your money if you don't give her enough info about yourself. When they ask for references from other providers, is it the provider's pimps who are giving the OK's? LOL. Sure.

We share a lot of the same pimps, Allure...

Oh, and also Eros and Delta airlines are two of my main pimps too.

for ladies to strive in this business. We are able to screen and be very selective on whom we invite into our home and sensual world.

I doubt ladies in this day and age need or desire a "pimp". Most of us are living our lives to the fullest and crave a lifestyle that only a lucrative business, such as this, can provide.

Blame it on Louboutin heels and Luis Bags!

♥ Ava

Louis Bags! LOL! damn typos

♥ Ava

Actually ... you know ... that makes sense. My pimp gets his cut right up front and if I don't pay up, he sends armed people to shake me down.

Glad to see they're taking care of someone.

Ruthless fuckers they are.

as we all know, one pimp is one pimp too many. One person caught in human trafficking is one too many.

I truly hope that we are correct and not deluding ourselves (and I am not referring to the level of business here on TER).

So, I would only like to take a moment and acknowledge all the truly independent ladies out there (agency affiliated or indie) and to take a moment for those ladies not quite so lucky.

All of us here are very lucky to be able to play this little business/game, which some like to call a hobby. Providers and clients alike.

“You'll find pimps with street women, in some brothels and in certain foreign countries…If she seems afraid, emotionally withdrawn, looks like she's been crying, has marks on her body…”

Oh really? Are those the types of ladies who are pimped out? And you found this definition in what book?

“The vast majority of women in North America are participating free of will.”

And where did you find these facts?

---

What you fail to realize is that there are pimped out ladies who package themselves well and do not fit the stereotype above. They aren’t (or do not advertise themselves as) a part of the lower class (or “bottom feeders” as some would call them), perhaps have an education, and can even put a sentence together in their ads. Somehow the fact that they are not your stereotypical definition of a pimped out lady who uses the words “roses” or “snow bunny” means they could not possibly have a pimp. How insensitive. By acting as if there are NO pimped out independents, and heaven forbid any on TER, is taking away the voice of those with this experience.

That’s like saying only lower class women are in abusive relationships. You are not acknowledging that high class ladies experience domestic violence as well. You are taking away from their experience by acting as if it doesn’t happen. Are they not that important to recognize their unfortunate experience as well?

I speak for myself. I’m not pimped out and I think it’s wrong to come on a board and start a thread with a silly post declaring all providers must be pimped out. However, I also think it’s wrong to act as if only certain ladies are pimped out and it couldn’t be any of the ladies on this board, or in North America. Please.

If you are a TER lady who is pimped out, just know that some of us care about your experience too. You are not forgotten, and I certainly hope that you find help one day. You deserve more.

Xoxo.

Imagine that. I hate my pimp.

"Lauren:"“You'll find pimps with street women, in some brothels and in certain foreign countries…If she seems afraid, emotionally withdrawn, looks like she's been crying, has marks on her body…”

Giamarie :Oh really? Are those the types of ladies who are pimped out?  And you found this definition in what book? “The vast majority of women in North America are participating free of will.”

And where did you find these facts?""

Not in a book but in experience. Experience in feminist counselling, experience working with third party researchers who do not have political affiliation, and experience in the political movement.

The foreign countries I'm talking about are countries where women cannot expect to go to a police department and be able to report rape, or where class is so bias that the poor are ignored even in cases of human rights.  India, where caste is a problem, South Africa, where young grils are often raped and the cases ignored, some Middle Eastern Cultures where a woman who is raped must have done "something to deserve it" (words used by the courts themselves),   and numerous other such cultures.

Also please note I did not say it "never" happens here, I said "most".

Independent researchers have found that 80% of women, either in front of the court, participating in a study voluntarily, or ones that are directly approached by researchers have participated free in prostitution free of will in North America, that's statistical data from 9000 sex workers.  Also in working with women's rescue as a counselor, most often the case is one of financial desperation. For example, needing money to ESCAPE abuse by a partner, and needing it in a short period of time to make their exit from the situation.
_____


"What you fail to realize is that there are pimped out ladies who package themselves well and do not fit the stereotype above."

The men who are pimping out - and this is again evidence provided by the courts themselves from the very mouths of the abusers and the abused:  Generally are under educated or participating in gang violence. They haven't the economic rescources, knowledge or access to computers, and quite frankly lack the DESIRE to package. You don't have to package a slave, they do as they're told.  The men who see them are aware they are forced - it's hard to miss when you've seen a woman who has in fact been forced by intimidation and violence to miss it!  So men that would be turned off by such a terror stricken woman with a soul that has been kicked in aren't going to want to go through with the booking. They're going to leave. As such their clients are guys who don't give a damn, or are turned on by the misery of women, and as such they aren't going to be on EROS.

When you meet them, these women have terror in their eyes, they're hostages.  Their entire frame cripples under the weight of the horrifying things they have gone through. They look like refugees from a disaster like Katrina.  There is no missing they are abused.   I met a woman once who was never allowed to make a choice for herself, and had been in a cycle of force prostitution from the age of 13.   When she had finally been liberated, she was unable to sit with me in a restaurant and order from a meal - she insisted that *I* choose for her, with a shaky fear to her voice.


Now there is a form of pimping that does NOT involve abuse.  There are women from Asia and Eastern Europe who are forced to North America with violence to work as prostitutes - but they are rare because you have to get her across the boarder without her throwing herself into the arms of the first official in sight and pleading for her life to be saved.  Cases where they do manage this, usually her children or family has been threatened to be killed and so she crosses the boarder compliantly.

Back to the ones that aren't victims of PHYSICAL violence: They know exactly why they are being brought here. They sign agreements that they will see X number of client, or work X number of hours, or earn X number of dollars.   They know in advance how much they will keep, and how much they are taken away.  Now I still feel this is a form of abuse - they work obscene hours and their bodies are exhausted.  I knew one woman from such a background arrested in a raid by the police, who told me some of the men were kind enough to let her sleep through the appointment and pay her anyway.  

These places often advertise themselves as "All Asian" or "All Russian" because they have a pipe line to people who are scouting the ladies and bringing them in. This is much easier to do, since she's made a conscious choice, and will not blow anyone's cover when crossing immigration or if being snuck in, won't fall pleading at the feet of the first officer that comes into sight.

Now onto the ladies who are street walkers - and yes they advertise in the back of magazines and often have cheap or free sites (though some of the women in those ad venues are still free, they just choose to market in those ways).   There are women who are HAPPY with their pimps.  Do the men take a majority of their money? Yes.  However, I have met several women who claim that they have no desire for change, and given the option chose to stay.  Now this is often a case with abuse victims, but again, when you've seen women who have lived with violence, you know someone who chooses submission and someone who is living as a hostage.

I strongly encourage all women who participate FREE OF CHOICE to get involved in volunteer work with shelters, rescue organizations, rape crisis centers and the political rights movement so that they can not only help their sisters, but understand what's actually happening out there.

I think your 80% number of women in the business in US is significantly too high.  I am not saying the number is 20%, but everything I have seen and read does not support 80%.

I understand where the number comes from, however I would argue the sample is biased.  Those women who are coerced will not be in the group who voluntarily comes forward.  Many who go to trial are far more afraid of the pimp or mob than they are of the legal system and will claim they are on their own.  Many of those approached will fear for their safety if not their lives unless they claim no coercion.  I am sorry, but statistically that is not likely to be a good sample, though maybe the best we can do.

On the rest of your points I agree.

We are talking about pimped out women, not strictly those trafficked.

Force doesn’t have to be as extreme as the cases you describe above for it to constitute force. And there are several ways to physical abuse someone without leaving bruises. You can do wonders with a plastic hanger.

Anyway, I recall a MN provider who was considered one of the best with all 9’s and 10’s in her reviews. It came out later on the news that she was being trafficked from state to state by her husband. There was another recent case like this. They were both TER/Eros ladies. Yes, they were of such fine caliber, yet pimped out in a sense.

Of course if we are talking about pimping as the strict definition of soliciting clients for an escort and taking her money - they walk among us, whether or not their force is the same as the "all Asians" or "all Russians" you describe. Their circumstances may be different, but they still deal with the force of an abuser or pimp. They walk among us. Someone does not have to be a slave or have a crippled frame to be at the hands of force, as force comes in all shapes and sizes. There’s really no need to compare it as if one doesn’t matter because the other is to a larger extreme. And as I mentioned, I’m talking more specifically about women who have pimps and not necessarily those who are trafficked per say.

And I agree there are a lot of women on the streets and on certain ad sites that are pimped out. My point what I thought your general description of those who are pimped out fails to recognize those who do not fit into your description. Apparently you weren’t generalizing, and I regret for reading too much into it. I just don’t want to turn my cheek to those ladies (despite the venue in which they post ads) who are pimped. Their experience is real as an independent even if it is different from yours or mine.

Personally, I will go out on the limb and say that a large percentage of our cute little hot college coed escorts are probably pimped out. Why? Well, they may not be on the streets or in a foreign country or post ads on CL with a free site (or they might), but they tend to be naïve and easy to manipulate into being pimped out. And there is my generalization.

Take care.

"That’s like saying only lower class women are in abusive relationships."

Please tell,where you find your facts?? What is your definition of a lower class or high class woman?
Its never  what kind of pocketbook you carry, or how much money it contains.
Most people don't use the same dictionary,when judging class.

...makes sense.

Xoxo.

There are no accurate statistics to support ANY claim of precentages on providers.
I do not challange you experience or the fact that many women live and operate the way you speak.
But when talking about experience, just let me tell you, without going into detail of how, ther are many pimped girls out there who are not streetwalkers. They are advertised on the web; some even have reviews. I will say I have personal, first hand experience in  knowing this information.
I only ask that those in the hobby be balanced and real. Just like the moralistic anti-sex worker factions in the US, falsely believe and perpetuate the myth that all providers are oppressed exploited women, there are many in the hoby that counter THAT myth with a different myth. That one is that the classic pimp and pimped whores are a thing of the past.
They are not.

No they don't ask for references. That is one clue of the POSSIBILITY of a pimp. I know providers that do not use references, who don't have pimps and are 100% legit, honest and independant.
Simply put: there are all kinds out there.

Disagree. Call it what you will, but at least half the girls on TER turn their dough over to some dude at the end of the day.

For Vegas, or if the girl is under 25, that number goes up to something like 85% (and that's including girls you'd never see on TER).

In California, on the large NorCal board that competes with TER, and on the growing Orange County one which also competes with TER as well, well over half the girls on each site are managed, and the younger they are, the heavier the management.

As my friend Nikki Avalon correctly states, it's usually more like "bum" and less like "pimp".

As my friend WebTerrorist will tell you, it's because women were raised to know that they are nothing unless they had a man, no matter the circumstances. That one is changing with the times, but not quickly enough.

Both are dead on the money, if you ask me.

I agree with you that the overwhelming preponderance of TER-type providers do not have pimps.

As you have said, the "vast majority ... are participating of free will." I agree.

However, I do not agree with your statement that "Independents are pimp free."

Thank goodness, the overwhelming preponderance are. But some are not.

There is, as horrible as the idea may come across, a phenomenon in existence that essentially allows a provider's SO to pimp her out.

It is a form of "battered woman's syndrome," and affects women across the board without regard to educational level, social class, advertising venue, or how much they charge.

I know that this phenomenon exists because I have known two women where this applies.

As with any abusive relationship, there is a complex psychology involved that precludes the victim from seeing options for escape that may seem obvious to those on the outside.

Such a woman, within the context of a session, may well appear to be "laughing, light spirited and having a good time." Even victims of abuse have moments of joy in their lives.

There was recently a case of a very popular "high class" (and high priced) provider removed from TER in the wake of an arrest in which the fact she was being pimped by her husband was revealed.

I am NOT saying that providers with SOs are being pimped. Rather, I am giving one scenario in which this occurs.

I realize you have read lots of studies and stuff. I, too, read lots of studies. But I also know what I have seen with my own eyes or women have admitted to me.

Pimping exists even among the highest classes of providers.

The fact that your studies don't show this phenomenon as existing, to me, indicates that their methodology is flawed and they need to be re-done.

Many men have certain moral conflicts about dealing with providers to start with. Adding knowledge of pimping into the mix could certainly turn many hobbyists into ex-hobbyists or curtail their spending.

Therefore, even among women who are being pimped, they could see it as in their self-interest to hide this fact so that hobbyists do not get the impression.

As for your studies ... Rule #1: people lie about sex.

And, personally, I consider feminist counseling every bit as objective as masculinist counseling. I consider both to have philosophical agendas that can compromise objectivity in some cases.

For example, as a hobbyist, I once participated in a study about my hobbying that was sponsored by a feminist group.

Just the possible answers to questions revealed such a severe bias that I stopped my participation.

I am paraphrasing, but here is the gist:

What is the benefit you derive from having sex with prostitutes?

a. It makes you feel powerful
b. It makes you feel "in control"
c. &c

These particular feminists, in keeping with certain feminist theories, saw the whole deal as some form of power-play -- which (for me anyway) was totally incorrect and highly insulting.

But guess what the results of their study into hobbyist motivations will look like? And those results will reflect their biases.

Just sayin'.

(*grin*)

There are numerous Providers on the TER that have managers AKA Pimps, There are also numerous agencies, that U think are female owned, guess what?? Many that most of U deal with on a daily basis. A prime example!! a Provider in chicago, has great reviews!!
she outed a client to his family( ck the board)
speaking from experience, Many of us have tried to help her!! over the years!! she always goes back to the pimps. even took her teenage daughter with her. Drugs are the lure for many of these providers!! U never know who is watching
from the next room???? That is one of the many
risks U take.
The internet has opened up a whole new world.
for everyone.

some sure do

I have seen groups of pimps hanging out in the parking lot with several providers doing incalls in the same motel, they post in CL and backpage, usually very young girls, teens to early 20s.

U are right on the money!!

Include husbands, SOs, "boyfriends", agenta, etc and it's a lot bigger number than you think.

Pimps in the broad sense aren't flash and white furs but they are just as controlling and just as grabbing on the money.

Lots of women you'd never expect have a guy (or woman) pulling the strings.  Control doesn't have to be physical beatings.  It can be putting the provider in any situation they don't think they can escape.  Debt, blackmail, drugs, guilt, all can be as effective as strong arming and leave fewer bruises.

There are lots of providers who have a pimp who still want references.  The pimp is a businessman or businesswoman and doesn't want LE around any more than an independent.  Also don't want their "product" damaged.

Same way there are providers who "trust their gut" and feel they don't have to screen to be safe.

Many women become their own pimps.  Any woman that is in the biz strictly for the cash has "someone" pulling the strings.  In fact, a large percentage of the population does something unpleasant for the money.

So, while technically correct, I think it's an overstep.

I understand your point so let me clarify my previous post.  Yes, most of us do something for $$ we would rather not do, but for most of us the decision to stay in that line of work is our own, the lesser of evils.

If someone else is seriously coercing the provider to stay in the business and the other person decides how much they will work, who they will see, and what the split of the money is, I consider that person a pimp no matter what they call themselves.

I think the key word is coersion by whatever means that is beyond what is "normal" in a job.