I am one of those rare birds (extinct?) whose only sexual experiences have been with escorts. I am in my mid 30's and only started this hobby recently. Alot of my life falls in that 1% category of people and sex is no exception. I used to post on dating forums, but when I mention I see escorts I get ripped to shreds. Anyways to cut it short, seeing escorts has really boosted my confidence and helped my depression with life. So I have gone on dates with civie girls and have some platonic friends as well. My question, is how to "make your move" on a civie to let her know you are sexually interested in her? Or is the rule of thumb to let things evolve naturally? I keep reading on these forums about guys who without trying have women "throw themselves" at them. I used to think this was BS, but now I believe this does happen.

Don't make yourself too available.  Be a bit mysterious.

When it's time for it to happy, it will.

I do NOT know the answer to your question. If I did, I probably wouldn't even know about TER or be posting here.

Somehow, I'm often the friend who is a boy but never the boyfriend. Be that as it may, I have a few friends who are, literally, babe magnets. Women in bars and clubs give them their numbers and ask them to call, I kid you not. Two of those friends used to brag about their very enjoyable first dates (of the sexual kind) and both are now married (but not to any of their one-nighters). Another friend assures me that he doesn't try to rush things, that he wants to get to know them first. Another such friend is in a long term monogamous relationship with a pretty girl so doesn't worry about that anymore.

In short: I don't know; I wish I did; don't give up; if YOU figure it out, please report back.

lay on the backhanded compliments.  make jokes with sexual tones (if you can get her to think of sex while she is with you, its not to far a leap for her to consider having sex with you. But DON"T CREEP HER OUT, its a fine line). if you don't have any sexual context while you are hanging with a girl you want to fuck, you will be stuck in the friend zone. little example, this girl i worked with was wearing really short shorts when we were out in a group, self conscience about her legs, trying to pull them lower. i make a stupid comment, something like those shorts aren't gonna get any longer, i get the giggle, she says she don't like her legs, i said something like you gotta be kidding, from where i'm sitting they look great (acceptance of her self perceived flaws).left and went to the bar.  that is followed by ignoring them/ a general indifference toward them(you don't want them thinking you put them on a pedestal), a few more back handed compliments(don't be mean, just be a smart ass about things).  i have taken it to the point where girls have called me an ass/asshole/dick. and yes, all that was done in one night with a girl i worked with.  we go bar hopping with a group of friends, she needs to get home, she asks me for a ride home, we hug goodbye, a prolonged hug on her part, we look, start making out, and to the house we go.  obviously the drinks relaxed us and made us less inhibited, but the groundwork was laid out at work and the few other times we hung out.

to recap, be the loveable asshole. backhanded/smartass compliments.  make her laugh with stupid jokes, some which have a sexual connotation so she doesn't have to far to reach to associate sex with you. accept insecurities, act uninterested/to busy for them at times(no girl wants a guy who is always there).  at least in my experience, if you can get em to call you an ass/asshole/dick with a smile or while laughing, you are golden! will this always work? nope, but the odds are pretty fucking good.

fyi: do i like doing this? no. but its just the way things are with civies. I wish i could be the nice guy, but girls don't respond to that, at least the ones i have encountered.  and do looks matter? i don't know, i guess i am kind of ok looking at best (recently got a nice little ego stroke when a provider posted, unsolicited, that i was handsome on her blog, no other mention about that for the others she mentioned. like i said nice ego stroke

last note: STOP MENTIONING YOU SEE ESCORTS ON DATING SITES!!!!!!!!!!
its accepted here because that is what we are here for, it is still considered gross/dirty/unacceptable by people who don't really understand this kind of life.

it would be ok if you decided to keep this side of your life "under the sheets" and not mention it to civies or on dating sites. Not everyone realizes the benefits of seeing escorts and they tend to make judgments based on  preconceived notions or their own personal ideas of what this side of life is all about.

As far as the "move" goes....I would just be yourself and as long as you let that confidence shine through, you will be ok without having to make that move.

Good Luck!

In other words, it has to be something you're comfortable doing.  For example, I'm not exactly a Don Juan, but the seductions that for me are the most memorable were the result of a combination of humor, honesty and self confidence.
On one occasion I'd been spending time in a hotel bar with a gal I met at a conference.  After several hours I could tell we were really clicking.  I looked directly at her,  leaned close and simply said, "I would love to sleep with you."  Yes, it worked.  Why?  Good instincts and good timing.
The second time I'd taken a younger colleague out to dinner (worked for a different division, so no problem with workplace shit).  She told me she liked me but really didn't want to become involved with a co-worker.  I just said it was a real shame because I was very attracted to her and thought we could have a lot of fun together.  A minute later she looked across the table at me and asked: "Would you have a problem if you had to go in to work tomorrow wearing the same clothes you're wearing now?" Now that's the most interesting way I've ever been seduced (though the seduction was mutual.)
The third time, I had a really good first date with my current SO.  We were talking about seeing each other again and she began bringing up all kinds of reasons why it wouldn't work, on every date I suggested.  So I just shrugged and said, "Hey, don't worry about it.  This is supposed to be fun.  When you figure out what works for you we'll do it then."  It took all the self-imposed pressure off her and the line, "this is supposed to be fun," was quoted by her for years as the magic words that made her start to fall for me.
So, like I said, there is no "one way."  You have to be relaxed, self-confident, know what you want and be "in the moment" to deliver the right thought at the right time.  No, it's not simple.  So try it and fail a few times, if necessary.  But you'll learn.

-- Modified on 4/20/2011 8:11:19 AM

He's a bit over the top but some of this stuff does help with women.

I'm still going to use an alias.  I don't want PMs.

The things you have heard about, homer, are true.  Civvie girl, provider, it makes no difference.

** When women see something they want, but cannot have, they get crazy. **

The 'something' can be jewelry or sex or just a compliment.  It doesn't matter.

So it's pretty straightforward:

1) Make them want something.
2) Make them feel like they cannot have it.

If you're really good looking and already have a hot girlfriend, it's easy.  Your good looks will make women want you, and your hot girlfriend will make them think they can't have you.  Job done, and all you did was show up.  But not all of us are so lucky (though it's been discussed on this board before how having a hot escort undercover with you boosts your 'attractiveness').  It doesn't matter.  The central principles still apply.  You just have to do a little more work.  Anthony6's post was pretty decent.  Notice how his approach uses the principles above.  1) He makes the women think about sex by telling jokes with sexual overtones.  2) Then he acts the smart ass and indifferent, thus making them think they can't have him.  He presents the carrot, but keeps it just out of reach.  His use of jokes is not bad, because humor is always good.  A general rule of all relationships is that people like to hang out with people that make them feel good (duh!)  The danger of his approach is, as jolene's comments suggest, is that he risks being seen as a 'player'.  Naive or insecure girls will still like the attention of a player.  And they might sleep with him if they think he is angling for someone better.  More secure and experienced girls will resent being played, and Anthony's approach might not work.  The funny guy with the slick patter walks a fine line.

As Anthony suggested, homer, you need to stop telling people that you hire escorts.  It makes you seem desperate.  If you sound desperate, then you have destroyed your chances of pulling off step #2 above.   A women might be as horny as hell, dripping down her legs and eyeing up doorknobs, but if you seem desperate she will not want you.  It is OK if you admit that you don't have sex very often.  It is OK if you admit you're a virgin.  But never ever sound like you want sex.  At least not with whomever you're talking to.

Here is some homework:

Exercise #1) Next time you are with a woman, tell her how you are attracted to some other woman.  If this is all true and sincere, so much the better.  As you carry out this exercise, note carefully that: 1) You are planting the idea of sex, but in a way that is not threatening to the target (because she is not the 'target'; the other woman apparently is), 2) You are, by showing interest in the other woman, subtly withholding sex from the woman you are talking to.  She will wonder why you are not attracted to *her*.  Be sure to not compare her unfavourably to the other woman.  In fact, you should compliment the woman you are talking to (always always always make her feel good around you; this should go without saying).  For example, if she asks why you find the other woman attractive, you can maybe mention details about the other woman's hair.  But in the process be sure to tell the woman you're talking to that HER hair is also beautiful, and tell her exactly why.  Be specific.  If can be anything.  The way it catches the light, the way it falls across her neck.  Whatever.  Maybe you are just having lunch in a crowded restaurant.  You could start the conversation by complimenting a stranger.  "That's a nice dress, don't you think?  I've always liked that color on women with dark hair."

By the time you are done convincing the woman that you are with that you really have the hots for this other woman, the woman you are with will want you.  But do not take her up on anything she offers.  It is not time yet.

Exercise #2) Pick a female friend.  Admit to her that you feel awkward around women, that you're jealous of guys who seem to always know what to say around women.  As you carry out this exercise, note how the principles above are put into play.  But you are also about to leverage the innate drive that people have to be consistent and follow through with commitments.  Your female friend, being polite, will compliment you.  Even if she is being polite, saying it will make her believe it.  Next, you will amplify this with Reciprocity.  Compliment her.  For everything nice she says about you, reverse it and up the ante.  If she says that you're a nice guy, tell her that she's nicer.  As mentioned above, try to be specific in everything you say.  Don't just say 'You're nicer!'  Tell her about a specific nice thing you remember her doing (note that this also requires that you start PAYING ATTENTION to the women around you).  If she says that you're funny, laugh and tell her something she said or did that always makes you smile.

When the conversation reaches the right moment, tell her you wish you knew more women like her because if you did you wouldn't feel like it was so hard to talk to women.  Then walk away.

Practice exercises 1 and 2 until they become natural.

Then come back on this board and ask for advice on how to close the deal, if you haven't already figured it out.

Ladies: Sorry about the loss to business.  But c'mon, we guys have to stick together.  And poor homer was in danger of having his testicles revoked.

1. When an average guy asks random single women for sex out of the clear blue sky when they have never seen him before, about 10% of women will agree. So as long as you are not hideously unattractive or wandering around with a chain saw, if you are willing to make the approach and don't fear rejection about 10% of women will have sex with you just by virtue of the fact you were willing to propose sex. And that's without any wining, dining or any of that other jazz.

2. Your odds increase tremendously if you limit the women you approach to women who react positively to you. Learning to read women's body language is not that difficult. Get a copy of Leil Lowndes' "Undercover Sex Signals." There are SOME aspects of her book with which I disagree, but overall the material in this book will help you short-cut the experience curve. It also has worthwhile advice on the critical elements of timing for when to move into a woman's personal space, etc.

People who observed me during my dating phase of civie life thought I was a "lady killer." Nothing could be further from the truth -- I am not especially rich or handsome and certainly not suave. The single thing that can be attributed for my successfully getting hundreds of dates with civie women in a very short time span is that I was able to separate the wheat from the chafe in identifying which women were -- or were not -- receptive to me; and therefore concentrating my efforts on those that were receptive. Though I had to learn this on my own, I find that Ms. Lowndes' book can save you a lot of trouble.

(Note: I have seen one provider whose mastery of her profession is so complete that she deliberately sends the sex signals that men usually interpret and respond to subconsciously. There is not a single move she makes that isn't calculated for maximum impact on the male sexual psyche. The reason I am pointing out the existence of this provider (who I consider highly ethical, adore as a person and admire as a master of her craft) is so you are aware that it is possible for women to fake these things at such a level that 99.999% of men would never know. If a provider can do it -- so can a civie. Heck, some providers date in civie life. You've been warned.)

3. Keep in mind that as in other species, although we dress it up with a lot of hocus pocus and confusion, men display and women choose. Just as a doe will decide when she is ready and for whom she is ready, a woman will decide both who and when. You may THINK having sex with her was your idea; but in 99% of cases you are simply reacting to HER receptivity. She builds the bridge, and you cross it. The key, then, lies in motivating her to want to build that bridge.

Ms. Lowndes is a cosmopolitan city girl and her advice to a certain extent represents a projection of her own values which are unabashedly hyper-materialistic. The key is that any psychologically healthy civie woman really only wants to take off her panties for the BEST man. In a cosmopolitan value system, "best" means "wealthiest available." HOWEVER, that is far from the only way in which women interpret "best."

Identify the arenas in which YOU are "best." By definition, only 2% of men are in the top 2% of any attribute -- be it physical development, intellectual capacity, annual earnings, charm, inventiveness, artistic creativity or whatever. Some very rare men are in the top 2% in more than one arena. But either way, carefully self-evaluate which arenas you will be the BEST when compared to other men. These are arenas where you will naturally be most confident and most in your element.

Your particular target female audience, then, is women for whom *that particular arena* is most important in their value system. So your greatest exposure should be in venues, events, classes or whatever in which women who value that arena will be found. Put yourself there; and then use the data from part 2 above to identify which women within that venue are most receptive to you.

4. In general, your timing of moving things to a sexual level should reflect your reading of her receptivity. Again, if you have difficulty gaging this, read the book -- it will tell you what to look for.

There is no such thing as a generic woman sexually. Every woman is different. Some women, for example, just plain do not like sex and never will, etc. Other women are hyper-sexual to such an extreme you might want to call in backup. LOL But no matter what, I believe a good general overview of sexuality in general and female sexuality in particular is valuable and can give you the tools to make her want sex with you a second time.

Please DO keep in mind that females are more sexually complex than males and that psychology and values play very prominently and that the way she views YOU is more important to her sexual receptivity than any particulars of technique. All the sexual technique and knowledge in the world is utterly useless if the girl sees you as "zero" rather than "hero."

Given that, as a baseline, I recommend the following additional books:

These give a good overview of sexuality
How Sex Works by Sharon Moalem
Bonk by Mary Roach
Why Men Don't Listen and Women can't Read Maps by Allan and Barbara Pease

Kissing is more important than you think:
The Art of Kissing by William Cane
(Skip the one by Violet Blue -- it is oriented toward women and really a beginner's treatise)

Every woman has different preferences, but this gives a good background to at least avoid hurting her:
She Comes First by Ian Kerner

Though I have never unleashed the content of this book on a provider and instead dumbed-down; it practically induced one civie girl to want to pay me:

The Low Down on Going Down: How to Give Her Mind-Blowing Oral Sex  by Marcy Michaels

And now for the WMD of books. I am NOT recommending this so that you can use the information on women; but rather so that you can recognize when women are using the information on YOU:

HOW TO MAKE ANYONE FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU: 85 Scientifically Proven Ways by Leil Lowndes


One more thing: don't take the sex stuff too seriously. Instead, look at the woman as a whole.

As Mel Brooks would say, may the Schwartz be with you.

...try going out and actually talking to a woman.

... I have had dates with literally hundreds of civie women, and my civie sex partner count rivals that of many higher-end providers.

Knowledge, however, IS power. And it also equals confidence. Loading up a guy with info preparatory to the interview will make him more confident and thus more attractive.

But as you correctly note, subject to misuse. Not likely with homer though. Party on.

I do not have a guaranteed success formula, but I've noticed that guys who can make women laugh have more success than those who can't.  I once knew a guy who was VERY average looking.  But he was extremely smart and could make just about anyone laugh about almost anything.  This average looking guy slept with more women than anyone I've ever known. I'm talking about really good looking women.  I'm just relying on his stories....I've witnessed how some of these women responded to him.  It was nothing short of amazing.  I agree with one of the other posters that being a smart-ass can sometimes work to your advantage if you don't over do it.  And....by all means do not be clingy and overly available.  Women sometimes interpret a bit of aloofness as confidence, and they love confidence. They also want a challenge.  Being mildly interested yet somewhat unattainable seems to be the key for some women.  And, I second the advice given by one that you should NEVER discuss having seen providers.....EVER.

Last time I hung with you, I was too hammered to figure out where to put it, even if you could get me hooked up.  I prefer my method of being funny, good looking and begging shamelessly.

FOR SEX.  That is an ultimate deal breaker that should be more than obvious, not because she's "grossed out" by it, but because she'll automatically assume you have trouble getting laid and will be turned off...turned off to the same degree that you're turned off by some 300 pound woman.

-- Modified on 4/20/2011 10:17:53 AM

-- Modified on 4/20/2011 10:19:11 AM

Re: Are you a wingman for

lol. nope. like with most things, its just common sense.
ps: i took Quagmires advice lol
they just did an episode of family guy where he teaches a class on how to pick up chicks.  
like i said, common sense, give them what they want, and you get what you want.

Was in Vegas at my hotel and met a local buddy of mine for drinks before I left the next day. Waited at the bar for him when I saw a lady sitting there by herself. Me being the horndog, I cozied up next to her. A little chit-chat till he got there. He plays, but never posts. Reviews or otherwise.

She was there for a software conference for fuck sakes. The hotel I was at hosted the thing, and she, as well as many others were walking around with these fucked up badges hanging around their necks.

Anyway, she gets into our conversation and starts to smile and laugh. Ask her if she would like to join in, she accepts. She gets between us, my buddy is being the funny one, and I'm being the cute one.

Blah, blah, blah. She misses the deal that night to hang with us. She knew we pay to fuck ladies, and still hung around.

To make it even shorter, I ask her if she wants to go upstairs and fuck. She said yes and we grabbed and kissed at each other all the way to the elevators, grabbing drinkables along the way.

This was a Monday night, which she stayed over, and we fucked more than the two appointments I had the previous two days. One of them a duo.

Talk with her on occasion still. Real cool lady.

If you're talking about that lady I think you're talking about, she's quite nice.  I didn't have the same outcome as you did, but still enjoyed sharing a drink with her.  Wait, that's not right...we each had our own drinks, lol.

That would be her.

Toldya she said you're cute!