Gentlemen and Ladies...

Has the untimely deaths of three notable providers and the call for increased security and emoting of feelings between hobbiest and providers signaled the beginning of an fall for this type of profession?

When I began fully partaking in this activity in 1998, it was a professional exchange between two parties.  There was no such thing as YMMV, or GFE. You either clicked or you didn't. If you did, it meant you left on good terms and there might be a future chance of meeting again. That way, there were no misperceptions or miscommunication on the status of where each person stood. As one of my comrades said, "one paid and one laid."

As things moved forward, more hobbiests and more providers entered this arena, and matters seemed to become less professional and based more on the feelings of what a provider transferred to the john.  Now, instead of a simple exchange of physical sex for money, we "johns" were looking for a faux relationship, using terms like a "GFE", or "she doesn't look at the clock."  And the providers seemed to reduce the distinction between what was strictly business and what was not.  Perhaps this was a factor of more providers who were not mentally ready for this activity entering.  I read where providers were contacting hobbiests for personal and financial advice.  Maybe the competition between providers became intense and the desire for great reviews a factor.

Perhaps we should all take a "timeout," and determine what this profession is all about.  I don't think the three murdered providers were at the hands of clients, but other issues (poor relationships, finances, etc) were present.  We "clients" should perhaps "reset," and not try to expect too much.  If a GFE is desired, then let's go to Barfly and practice the art of dating there.  And ladies, let's understand that this is a business and that once money is exchanged and service performed, the contract is settled. Its disturbing to see providers griping over how reviews were not submitted by clients, though she has regulars.

In short, it seems this hobby has transformed into a relationship alternative for both sides, with some trying to barter for love. When that happens, feelings become entangled, and unfavorable actions result (stalking, abusive clients, bad reviews, extortion, rip-offs, etc).  Unless both sides, retain their proper perspectives, then providers best look for alternative means of income, and then clients begin subscriptions to Hustler.

DP

DP

Very Good Post. You hit it right on target.Yes it is sad about the recent murder.I,just like you,do believe this hobby has changed in recent years (although,I've been only doing this just over a year) I notice when guys get mad,they post how bad a provider treats them,even though she may have a dozen excellent reviews before his,but do they consider this is a business.Sometimes you catch a provider on a bad day.They're just like us guys,HUMAN,a person with feelings and a personal life,that we don't know about.Yes I do believe things could click between a client and a provider,but also,outside this hobby you meet women,who click with you or they don't.Only difference we make appointments or sessions to see them.I believe if I made an appointment with a provider,show up doesn't like me and politely tells me no,I don't think I want to do business with you,what should I be mad ? Hey it's her loss,no money to be made for her today from me.Would I post a bad remark about her ? No she save me some money.

The advent of increased use of the web, email, IM, and fora such as this one has amazingly "personalized" the hobby and its participants.  My own experience is that we tend to be somewhat free in discussing personal lives and personal issues...it's natural, especially here, because this is a great way of satisfying curiosities and addressing concerns.

However, with that increased familiarity perhaps a sacrifice has been made in personal security...providers may not be as alert for telltale signs when with somebody they "think" they know.

Then too, recent tragedies may not by symptomatic of a general trend.  The Washington Post reports today that they're looking into the possibility that Summer's death may not have been a homicide.  We don't know who, when, why.  Hopefully, we will.

IMHO this hobby has always been, as you call it, "a relationship alternative".  What makes a guy go to a provider is for something that is missing in his life that he wishes to regain.  Whether it's just plain raw sex, as I suspect from your post is your goal (please correct me if I'm wrong), or companionship, intimacy and intellectual stimulation in addition to the sex, it's because these are missing elsewhere that we enter into this type of business relationship.  

What's changed about the hobby over the years is the amount of communication between providers and clients.  With the Internet and all the review sites, providers are identified by their niche in terms of provided services.  There are GFE's, PSE's, Domme's etc.  The reviews just help the client to pick and chose the provider he wishes to, as you say, contract with.  It just makes the hobby less hit-or-miss.

Before my marriage, in the '70s, I was active as a hobbyist.  The same mix of providers existed then as now.  There were only 2 differences that I recall.  One, the knowledge of a provider's services were hit and miss. You simply didn't know what to expect until you got there. And 2, since AIDS was not yet an issue, there was a greater prevalence on BBFS, which among quality providers I believe is verboten.

Your description of how you used to simply enter into a "contract" where the provider simply provided the sex and then you parted ways may in some cases be in large part because that's what you want. remember that a quality provider is there to tend to your needs  as the client.  Even a GFE provider, if you want less than a Girl Friend Experience, will provide less for you.  And yes, it is in some ways a relationship alternative on both sides.  

I have met providers who actually are in their profession because they enjoy the freedom, the financial gain, and yes, the sex as well.  I like the diversity.

You're right, nothing's really new, except for the amount of information sharing now available, and perhaps more concern and awareness over STD's.  The Internet has brought a lot of us together, and for the first time we have many people to talk to about this lifestyle, albeit anonymously.  The World's Oldest Profession and The World's Oldest Hobby have probably seen everything many times over.

btw, i didn't think your post was all that long. thinking it would be i got myself a cup of espresso and sat down, only to finish reading your post before i even took my first sip!

but i digress (as usual)

the recent deaths (as well as some recent LE arrests) have jolted me. today would've been a day of celebration for me (i should say tonight to be more precise) but now i'm not so sure i'm in the mood to indulge. it's strange. i know if i was a provider i would not see a single (new) client until i was properly armed or "ready" in other ways. but that's just my paranoid self.

in regards to the hobby's current gestalt, i have two meager observations to posit.

1) i get the distinct impression that the folks on this board (providers and hobbyists) are at best a skewed representation of the total population of hobbyists "out there", the very subjects that are brought up and discussed are an indication of that. i don't know if it's the up-shifted socio-economic backgrounds, the above-average level of eduction or just the fact we are NOT representative of the multitudes in the business who don't even know how to use a computer (dare i say the "unwashed masses"?   btw, i think this misunderstanding (or mis-calibration) in regards to what's a norm in the business and what constitues one on TER, has been the source of much unnecessary dispute and bickering on these boards, but i'm digressing again.

2) as to the "millenium dating" analogy i'd have to say: to each his/her own. but i feel that FOR ME (emphasis FOR ME!!!) that if it were true then that would be a pitiful state of affairs. this is not to pass judgement on anyone else, believe me (how many times do you want me to say FOR ME, for this to not be misunderstood!?)  but i think that mixing love and the hobby is fraught with disaster and anguish (i speak from experience, the ONLY requisite worth mentioning). that said, i'm both envious and  incredulous of guys who speak of having found "it" (love) with their ATF. if so, more power to them. i guess. it's just that i'm always reminded of that line by Olympia Dukakis (from Moonstruck) where she tells a Columbia professor (who's sleeping with his students) to "DON'T SH*T WHERE YOU EAT" !!!


anyway, i'm not sure i stayed true to the topic of the thread. i have a tendency to digress ... so now i will egress.

-- Modified on 7/11/2003 2:35:47 PM

Emotion and caring is not an all or nothing proposition.

I have never fell in love with a provider, and that is not my intent.  As far as I know, none have fallen in love with me.  But to say, as some on this thread seem to be implying) that this means the only alternative is a physical-sex-only goal is wrong, at least for me.

I rarely see a Lady for ONLY a physical meeting; I almost always want that genuine “I like being with you” feeling.  I certainly never see a Lady more than once if it isn’t there.

Care and concern have been major parts of this business for some of us for as long as we have been in it, and if it ever left, I am certain I would as well.

The first point I would like to address is your feelings about the demise of this profession. A downward spiral? I seriously doubt it, but if so, it is probably only a temporary lapse. Let's try not to forget that this type of commercial enterprise (pay for play) has been around and survived longer than just about any other business in our history. Because the huge dollar volume that prostitution generates is generally seen as part of our "underground economy", the ladies in this business have never been given the same privileges and protections granted by society as would be given to other high revenue generating businesses that are more legitimate. Not only are paid ladies deprived of these benefits from our bureaucracy, but in many instances are  vigorously prosecuted. This in turn makes these ladies an underrepresented class of individuals, which makes them somewhat susceptible and vulnerable to those who are more economically, politically or physically stronger.

Although paid ladies are fully cognizant of their place in this world, they are more than willing to endure this for the lifestyle and economic rewards that this chosen profession allows them to obtain. Unfortunately, since the very beginning of time, violence[or the potential of]has always been part of the assumed risks within this trade. Murder, rape, robbery and other humiliating acts have been endured for an eternity by these ladies, yet the prostitution segment of the adult entertainment industry is still as viable as ever. These ladies may not have an academic understanding of cost/benefit analysis or risk assessment, but they fully comprehend that the pros out weigh the cons. No, instead of a downward spiral, over the next few years we will probably see an increase of the number of ladies participating in this field, as well as a steady rise in the rates for the lady’s time.

I also disagree with your assessment that this “hobby” is a relationship alternative for both sides. Although there may be an exception (as I don’t believe in absolutes), the paid ladies for the most part are far more grounded and focused than the vast majority of their clients. This is their job, and the ladies are business people first and foremost. In addition, they are tremendously skilled at selling and marketing. They know exactly what to say, but more importantly, they know what not to say. It’s sometimes difficult to distinguish whether the paid ladies say what they believe or say what they think men want to hear. These ladies know that most men become rather helpless in their hands when it comes to the power of pussy. As far as me personally believing what they say, I would place paid ladies somewhere between those in politics and people who sell used cars.

Just as with any other occupation, some paid ladies are far better in doing their jobs than others. Some ladies are far better making a fantasy seem like reality. Some paid ladies are far better at giving you the impression that they seem to really enjoy what they are doing. Using the analogy of acting, there are some actresses like Meryl Streep or Nicole Kidman that effortlessly can make you believe anything and everything, while others like Brittany Spears may not be quite as convincing. Just like with acting, some skilled paid ladies can make you believe that you made the connection of a lifetime, even if in reality she feels absolutely nothing. How convincing she is, is what separates the true professional from the semi-pro. The fact of the matter is, regardless of what she says, the paid lady, overall, is really very good in keeping her emotions in check.  

Finally, I do agree with your opinion that it seems that a large segment of the client pool (in particular, those seeking a “g.f.e.”) try extremely hard with one paid lady after another in their ultimate quest to find some connection. Although this may make these clients appear to be rather pathetic, I think this is just a symptom of far deeper issues that affect our society as a whole. Just look how many people respond to the personals, or subscribe to some dating club or pay top dollar to some exclusive matchmaker (as some do in Los Angeles.) However, those gents who pay a lady for companionship are just going through an alternative venue to try and find that something which is lacking in their life. If these guys want to make themselves believe that they have forged a reciprocal connection with a paid lady, they are really not harming anyone else. Perhaps, there will come a point in time where the client may get a taste of bitter reality from the paid lady that may lead him to an emotional letdown, but this again has relatively very little impact on anyone other than himself.

-- Modified on 7/11/2003 11:29:51 PM

Ok, that's a cut and paste keeper. Good job!

Actually fortitude makes a number of good points.  And this hobby is not going to disappear.  As someone who has been around this hobby for a few years I think that the hobby has been deteriorating ever since the hobby moved to the internet.

i think i can guess what you mean by that: the democratization and mass popularization of a once exclusive and arcane practice amongst privileged gents with connections to upscale madames and selective dames in various cities around the world? in other words, the old-fashioned low-speed low-tech "network", right?

yes, alas nowadays (thanks to the internet) any slob with a $20/month ISP account and $300 to spare can "score" with one of our lovely ladies!

but perhaps you could elaborate (in case you meant something else)?

...I would love for you to elaborate on your thoughts.  I've always believed the opposite in that the Internet gives the client the tools to decide who they want to see based on more than a picture or an ad.  It's one of the reasons that the profession is, IMHO, flourishing.

F.

Actually Singleton that is not what I meant.  I have spent most of my hobby time in Los Angeles and I believe you are in the Boston area.  Based upon your comments I can only assume that in Boston prior to the internet the only way to see a provider was to be a privileged gentleman with connections to upscale madames.  Certainly this was not the case in Los Angeles.  I guess I can understand that because Boston does seem to have a reputation as a snobbish place.

In any event I doubt that you could relate to my discussion of the LA market prior to the internet and if you could it would be of little use to you since the places seem so different.