to deal with your self-esteem & social phobias.
You might also wanna contact a good provider for a session that will help you overcome your shyness & anxiety toward women.

The rest is up to you, my friend.

Good luck with your future.

You have a major internal disconnect if you can say you love people, but are really anxious around people, which means you more love the idea of loving people, and that you have no friend/family support, unless you have somehow been totally removed from them. I'm not saying this as criticism, and their are plenty of people who feel much the same as you. You've got plenty of issues to work on, and it comes easier when you can work on them with someone who can understand you and respect you where you're at, and in whom you can learn to trust.

Stay away. This life will make you and your wallet empty. What you are seeking is a relationship from all that you post. You want pussy, don't we all. You lack self-confidence so you think this is a shortcut to intimacy, it's not. Now if you can get your head on straight, you'd have a lot of fun here, but I think the way you are now, some of the bad providers will take you for a ride and not in you 35k car. They'll loosen up your 100k bank account and call you Tim. That's short for ATM. You'll be a hit until your clinginess becomes stalker-ish. Find a lady, perhaps a woman in her thirties that can school you a bit or until you gain some confidence with women. If you start this life as you are today, they'll smell blood in the water.

This will sound wrong, but hear me out.

To get over your shyness, you need to stop caring.

IMHO, shy people care too much about what others think about them.  That needs to stop. You might also be trying too hard to be a nice guy.  Think about that seriously and see if there is any truth in that for you.  Sometimes, nice guys are seen as pushovers.  It doesn't have to be that way - you can still be nice, without being a pushover.  Chicks hate pushovers. The way to start is to stop being nice to everyone.  Only be nice to those who are nice (or at least not mean) to you.

Join a club of some kind - the smaller the better.  You are probably not a joiner, but you need that now.  Join something and stick with it.  You have self-discipline - if you are winning at poker, you know you have it.  Use that discipline to keep going to the club or whatever.  Try taking a speech class at the local community college.

This won't happen overnight, but relax. At only 23, you have plenty of time. Just keep working on it.

Unlike my friend Cottonballs, I don't think you are too young for this.  I think some visits with providers can help you with the shyness.  It will be a valuable learning experience.  Just be SURE you don't let it stunt your personal growth.  For you, at your age, hobbying is a means to an end, and should not be a goal in itself.  Self-discipline again.

You are not the first in this situation.  I was much like you in some ways until I got to college and met the right girls.

Sincere good luck.

Nevertheless, I'll give you my thoughts.

Self esteem and self worth come from achievement.

Achieve something.

Find a field that interests you, and then go back to college to get yourself qualified for the pursuit. Then pursue.

Try not to allow your self esteem to be tied completely to the estimation of others. Find your own values by which you can measure yourself; and constantly strive to be better by your own measure.

In this way, your achievements will have value to your self worth.

I won't make myself popular around here for saying it, but paying for pussy can be about as empty and meaningless as it gets unless you know how to set about doing it to achieve some other end. And when approaching it from a perspective of minimal self-worth; it will simply emphasize that for you. You WILL feel more empty. More worthless. It can cause you to become depressed.

My advice on this is the same I would give to any virginal male, but goes double for you: avoid p4p. Avoid, avoid, avoid. Did I mention avoid? It will likely do you more harm than good unless you are extremely lucky.

Go get a copy of a book called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl.

Victor Frankl had some very worthwhile insights on finding something greater than yourself as a way of establishing meaning in your life.

While I don't agree completely with the universality of his views; I think in your case they may be worthwhile.

The book is small and cheap. You can skip the first half which is about Frankl's survival of the Holocaust. Just get to the meat of the matter -- what he calls logotherapy -- in the second part.

And it will assist in the mindset for establishing meaningful direction for the aim of your achievements.

Along the way, you WILL find a woman who will see the value you have established for yourself, find you attractive, love you for who you are, and willingly pursue sex with you that will be invested with meaning.

Do what is right; and goodness will come to you.

I know a lot of guys like you in my line of work.  The ones I know, however, have more "direction in life" where you have admitted that you do not.  Please allow me to suggest some directions.

I think you need to unplug yourself from social norms and do what you love.  

If you are naturally introverted, stay introverted!  It's okay, you will be okay for the most part.  

Don't succumb to pressures of "if I'm not social, I am not cool."  Nonsense.  

Use your brains to do something great.  Start a company/business. Build a useful service/product. A sense of accomplishment will build your self esteem.  

I disagree with making investments with your time on askmen.com or "The Game".  I honestly think these things will do more harm to you than good.   To be blunt, they were not designed to help guys like you.

Don't feel like you have to go out of your way to help people in order to get them to like you.  In my experience, that strategy backfires.  

With regard to P4P, I say if you can afford it, go for it.  If I knew about this at your age, I would have done it.  

Work on projects and join clubs with constructive endeavors even if the people you meet aren't "cool" in the classic sense.

I know a thing or two about isolating oneself and self doubt. Johngaltnh is right about how to build selfworth set a goal then achieve it. Help people along the way. Do this over and over again and your self-esteem issues will disappear. Helping people and achievement are the only real ways to build yourself up. He is also right about how empty paying for pussy can be. It is great fun, but it is a fantasy. The connections are false and can give you all the wrong signals. It often will do more harm than good if you have self-esteem issues or social issues. If you are naturally introverted like me that is fine but everyone needs some social interaction. Get out of the house say hi to people as you pass them by. Ask women out the worse thing likely to happen is they say no but then you are no worse of than before. I speak from experience. I was like you at your age, I literally worked and slept. I avoid social situations and was lonely. I followed that path until I was 30. Don't wait get out of the house today. Tomorrow set a goal that means something to you and make a plan to achieve it. Make it a point to try and help someone some how every day. It will take time and effort but your self worth will increase, your circle of friends will increase, and you will be happier. Also that whole virgin thing will disappear and in a more meaningful way than P4P. I have been in a place similar to where you are. This is how I overcame it, I just wish I would have done it at 23 and wasted my 20's hiding from the world. Hope this helps. I am rooting for you.

If you are shy and lonely please be mindful that seeing escorts is strictly pay for play. While they may enjoy you and the time you spend together, don't let yourself think they are into you and looking for more.

I have deflowered a few men in my time as an escort and they tended to get the idea that I was girlfriend material.

The good/ethical escorts will let you down easily and may stop seeing you. The unethical ones will play you until you spend all your $$ on them then drop you when the well runs dry.

Just go in with your eyes open.

Good luck to you.

I can identify with many of the "problems in Cliffnote" form you provided. I'm older than you and have experienced 80% of what you detail.

You apparently have the money and means to afford top quality mental health therapy. Think of it as an investment in your future happinness and success. I recommend you see a psychologist, not a psychiatrist....one who will spend the time to talk with you and someone you feel comfortable revealing your inner self. It might take you a while before you find the right therapist but, once you do, you may find it to be the best spent money in your life. Remember, seek a psychologist who may be able to work together with your MD if meds are needed.

With all due respect to the great providers, P4P does not seem to be what you really need at this time.

Disclaimer: I'm not a licensed therapist or MD. Get some help, feel better and enjoy your life!!

K, so I'm seeking some life advice from fellow TERs. I feel like the gents are probably older and wiser. The providers have seen so many different types of people that they can give good advice. And if you're in this business you've probably made enough of a mental break that you're not a one-track-minded blissfully ignorant person. Here's my problem in cliffnotes for an easier read:

23 Years Old
Chinese/not really culturally integrated
Played Texas Holdem
Dropped out of College
Virgin, no GF ever
Low self esteem
Really anxious around people
No family/friend support
Not ugly, but short 5'7
Have investment property
Have a 35k car
Have 100k cash and potential to earn more
Don't feel comfortable around anyone
Doing positive things right now like working out/eating healthy
Supporting parents who aren't mentally there with my presence
Massive confusion
No direction in life
Loves life
Loves people
Good person in general


So what's my plan? Playing more poker will add to the numbers in my bank account but not necessarily the quality of my life. I've been considering getting into the TER lifestyle but I'm not sure if it'll just make me feel more empty. Should I finish college? What's the point if I'm going in without a plan of getting a job? If I go down that road, I feel like I'll be stuck at a 9-5 and not necessarily any happier or still unemployed playing poker. I want a girlfriend but I'm seriously so nervous and shy that I have no idea how to go about it. I want to have fun but I don't know how. My day is literally, wake up, get on computer, read things, work out, eat,  more computer, eat, tv, sleep. I rarely talk to people and when I do, it doesn't feel like I'm myself. We aren't connected... I'm a good kid tho.. Help me.

The Therapist Review so I know I'm not dealing with CL/BP newbies.

I am Chinese as well -- at 55, much older -- but I feel for you. You are too young for this; you should spend your resources on a real relationship.

You sound like a smart person, you should go back too college. It is the best place for cultivating relationships. Fellow students are not as judgmental as for example colleagues whom you want to date. Get involve in extracurricular activities to make some friends, or volunteer in non-profit organizations with like-minded people.

Go here http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/messageList.asp?boardID=20

and ask the Love Goddess. She might be able to help.

Therapy doesn't help, I've tried. They're for people with "real problems". And I haven't always been like this so I know it's temporary. As soon as I know what I'm doing in this world, it'll all be over. I have low self esteem because I don't have a good group of friends. I have social phobias because I've been sitting in the same room for a few years without going out enough... lol that sounds really bad. I just need to go out, but what's my first step? How do I get started?

I've been to maybe 5-6 therapists. None of them could help me. They just listen to you talk but never actually tell you anything. They just reciprocate what you say in different words and scribble things on their notepad and say mmmhmmm.. yeap... that's terrible..

Yes I agree with the internal disconnect. I confuse myself sometimes. I don't know who I am and don't understand myself. I guess I"m just a byproduct of people wanting to immigrate to America and not knowing how to live here. I think the issue is connecting with someone on a close level. I could probably hold my own with people and friends but you have to have someone who knows you inside out. It used to be my family but somehow they've grown distant. One day I wake up.. I'm like holy shit, are people robots as if I had an epiphany about how they were living all this time? (since you can only feel your own senses and so many people fall into a routine, if that makes sense)

I guess I fell into a depression.. they weren't at my graduation.. I didn't really apply to any schools except the university in my home town. Big mistake. My life is a big mess of many years. I'm looking to sort it out. I know I have it better than most when it comes to being tied down. But I also missed out on the best years of my life.

Heh, you hit it on the dot. I do notice my clinginess and stalker-ish side and I don't like it. It's like I'm so desperate to find someone to connect with but I can't and it's driving me crazy. It doesn't matter who it is, I find myself talking to old people and offering random people rides. Like... I'm desperate. I don't know what to do. Everyone has their own agenda and their own lives to live. I'm no one to interject. I'm just flowing down the stream by myself. Thanks for the advice though.

Well I got a year of college left. My biggest fear is living in a college environment and NOT being able to interact with people. That just sucks... I feel so different from most people and I just don't know how to do it. I have about a year and a half left, credit-wise. So I'm already signed up for the fall, 2 days out of the week with 4 classes, but I'm still commuting from home so not much will change. Going to classes and coming back to the computer will be my life. I have volunteered before but it's just not fulfilling. I'm still the quiet guy that's hard to approach. And It's really hard to find like-minded people.

I did make a thread in the highway... hopefully The Goddess will have some words of wisdom for me! =) Thanks for the advice.

What I mean is they don't consider my problem a real problem. They don't see who I actually am, just what's on the outside no matter how I try to explain it to them.

It makes me sad to hear you have low self esteem and anxiety.  (I actually have a couple of clients who have these emotional issues, so you are not alone.)
It sounds like maybe you know your anxiety and low self esteem are not actual problems with who you are, as a person, but rather you are dealing with depression/anxiety.
All people are equal in value.  We all have gifts and talents.  
I say this all of the time to depressed/anxious/lonely clients:   the TER world will not fix these emotional issues.  If you feel isolated, lonely, depressed, anxious, therapy is a better route for you.  Seeing an escort can put a Band-Aid on your wounds, but this is a "fantasy" world, so it's not going to help you in the long run.

As far as social skills go, I think you should do what feels right/comfortable for yourself.  There are no right or wrong choices, as long as your lifestyle isn't harmful to others.  (That's my ethical core belief, anyway.)  If you desire to be more outgoing, push yourself to try new situations, but don't do anything too jarring, of course.  Keep doing those "challenges" to yourself regularly, and I have heard that is a good way to reduce anxiety about certain situations.

If you feel okay with being a wallflower, that's not a bad thing, either.  There are a lot of amazing, great shy people out there!

Instead of "getting a girlfriend," maybe just start small?  Start with "making friends."  People are attracted to other people, who have confidence, so you have to work on your own self esteem, and then, friends/girlfriends will follow.

I wish you luck in finding fulfillment, sweetie.

XOXO,
Kim

Why not go out, in public, into places where there's not a lot of pressure to be "cool" or "sexy" ?  Like, stay out of bars and night clubs.  Maybe go to a social group that is for a regular interest, like Poker, etc. ?  

Also, when you meet new people, don't reveal to them, that your self esteem is low.  That tends to scare off a lot of potential new friends.

I feel bad for you because I am half Asian, and I know that Asian families tend to be more reserved than other ethnic families, which sometimes can put you at odds, when you are socializing with other people.  

Also, I am very outgoing in one-on-one situations.  However, I get social anxiety, when I am with groups or new people I want to impress very badly.  Also, if I feel misunderstood, my social anxiety increases.  I know you are probably way more introverted than I am, jambajamba, but I have had my anxious moments, too, so I have empathy for you.

The advice on "how to attract women" is very useful on www.askmen.com

You definitely have to mask your insecurities, though.

Everyone else wants to have fun, just like you do.  

No healthy, sane woman wants to date a sad person.

I am just trying to be constructive.

Ya that's a good idea. I guess I'll do that more. I have played at casinos a fair amount but I could find a group. Usually I feel bad playing with them because I'm that serious kid taking everybody's money. I guess I could donate to make friends... lmao

Yes I want to meet other people. My biggest problem is I don't know who I am. People want to know more about me and I just can't seem to explain myself, like how I arrived at today. It's not really the feelings that I care about, it's about what to do tomorrow cuz I know this cycle will repeat unless I have an action plan, although it is comforting to hear that others have the same problem as me. I'm definitely not feeling the wallflower type. That's just not me... so I'm gonna give it all I got to change and create a life. Guess I'm just venting... Thanks for your support.

On  www.askmen.com , it says a good way to overcome "shyness with women" is to practice socializing (first) with women you are not attracted to!

It makes sense, I think.

Thanks bro, good advice. Any other comments on the whole virgin to escort thing? I think it'll help me too... but I don't want to regret it which I probably won't since life is short and who cares anyway. Yea, I really do need to stand up for myself more because I usually don't. And I do want to join a club. What do you suggest? I was thinking of doing some type of martial arts... what you think?

Wow you're so helpful! Yeah I've been reading this book, "the game" on how to pick up women lol. Also there are no women that I'm not attracted to right now seeming all I want is company. I'm more of a walking oxymoron/schizophrenic because I act so differently all the time and no one really knows me. I'm just really needy in general and I'm working on that!!

If therapy does not really work for you, I think it might help you (MAYBE), if you tried getting professional massages.  + That is cheaper than seeing escorts.

You might be able to break down that wall, where you feel like being around people, receiving love/attention, and touching another person - feels unnatural and uncomfortable.

If you are able to use professional massage to help you to accept human bonding, then, that might help you socialize, get a girlfriend, etc.

Also, I do think professional massage can be auxiliary to improving self esteem.

Yeah I've gotten 3 massages in my life. And they've all been exhilarating. I just came out relaxed and all happy. That's not a bad idea actually. I'm gonna go more...... !

I know it is comfy in there, but get out.  Go to a cafe with wireless at least where you will be exposed to at least a few social interactions.

Something you can do to get over some anxiety is do something strange like stand on a busy sidewalk somewhere and anyone who walks by just ask them to touch your nipple.  It is weird but you will get over some of your anxieties about talking with people.  Kind of weird advice and don't suggest you do anything too crazy, but some sort of thing like this might help.

lol I like it... If I were drunk it'd be a fun adventure. But if I was nervous and saying that ppl would look at me funny. I've been going out to the mall, eating out, barnes n nobles, random places. But yeah I agree with you. The more I fill up my calendar the better I'll be. Good advice!

Well you certainly had a lot to say. Wise or not, doesn't matter to me, I'm willing to take advice from anyone and I appreciate it. But let me pick at your points. There are no fields that interest me really... Science, law, business just isn't that interesting when I have women on my mind (not just women but what my life should be about). I've always excelled at what I did and became really good at it. It's funny to think about, but I think I'm worth a lot but it doesn't show because I haven't done enough in life and I don't have the support for me to show that...

I'm not sure what p4p means but if it means paying for provider then you're saying I shouldn't see an escort for my first time? I just don't see myself anywhere near a girl. I've been so down that I haven't held hands with a girl in 4 years. So you can see I'm kinda struggling...

I will check out that book. I love books like that, about achievement, philosophy, and self help types... Thanks for the advice!


And what's right anyway?

I think it's really normal to not know who you are, when you are 23.

At least you are aware of this!  A lot of 23 year olds think they know everything!

Also, you will know who you are, when you are older, and it will be very real, which will give you more confidence.

Also, you just told all of us a lot about yourself, in your original post, so it sounds to me that you do have a good amount of self awareness going on.  You're just not making hasty life choices, which is fine!

OMG!  jambajamba is not a provider.

Great advice! Yeah I don't know about the whole cool thing. I'm definitely not a nerd but I partake in nerd-like activities. I think I do it because my childhood was so bad I just went on the computer so I didn't have to deal with my parents. So another 1 for P4P. And I'm definitely willing to talk to people who aren't "cool". Everyone's got their own unique story.


My issue right now is not being introverted. You know what it is... I feel like my life is too boring right now. I always gravitate towards fun things but there just isn't anything fun in reach and I feel stuck. I'm reading the game to navigate myself towards those things I want to do. I do agree with you that a person shouldn't go out of their way to gain the approval of others. But do you believe in fate? Or that you can change yours? What if it's to go out of your way to change your fate, and not to gain the approval of others?

I'm taking you guys's advice seriously so lemme know. 2 for P4P, 2 for avoid P4P so far.

lol

The general shrink - a psychiatrist, who can prescribe meds - is generally useless in my book.

If you want to try therapy, and that requires a big personal and emotional investment, requires a good Jungian.

I would suggest an occupational/behavioral therapist or even life coach. Cheaper, and geared towards changing behaviors which is what you seem to be after. The other parts (self esteem) etc, will change over time as behavior changes.

Yeah I agree with you. I've seen both psychiatrists and therapists who aren't MDs and don't prescribe. I have also done a fair amount of searching for good therapists/life coaches. I have never heard of a Jungian and don't know where to find one. I will definitely look into that again though.

Anyone know a good life coach resource?

About being "sexy" or "cool"... I don't know why but I've never felt pressured to be sexy or cool. I just didn't get it. Maybe I'm dumb. I think a big part of it was that 1. My parents convinced me that they were the coolest people on earth. "Blacks were homeless. Whites are dumb. Asians are the best race. Ball players are dumb and most likely won't make it professionally and will end up being a janitor." I believed all that and told it to my friends. 2. I started playing games on the computer when I was really young to escape life I'd think. It was my life over real life. So one day I have an epiphany and all these years go by. In school, I was genuinely happy tho, but pretty clueless. I had friends. Everyone was my friend even though I never really did anything.

I never really dressed up or anything. My parents were clueless and I followed them. I don't want to blame them. I just want to live a normal lifeeeee w/o being a weird useless person in society!

Thanks man. Good advice is always welcome, and you sound wise to me. Everything you said is certainly true.

So that's 2 for P4P, 3 for avoid P4P.

And yes I do things to break my cycle sometimes but eventually I'll find myself at this point again searching for answers. So back to the drawing board for another go! I conclude that I don't know what I'm doing in life. I don't have any meaningful connections and nothing means that much to me. I really don't care about too much so it's hard for me to get into things. I'm just really needy and seeking someone's attention at this point. And sometimes I will have people to talk to. I know some asian kids around here and a couple people who went to school with me. We play basketball and videogames but it feels so empty. They don't know what I'm really feeling (mainly cuz I'm bad at communicating probably). It's like I'm trying to build a life but that's so abstract. It's like I need all these blocks to be in a certain place but that's just not gonna happen. I'm real confused..... Help me God lol

Re: Send me a PM. I'll turn you on to some shit. eom...

You'll "turn me on to some shit". Hmm I don't know if I want to know... Is there something I'm not aware of?

First, I have to say that I am overwhelmed at the outpouring of excellent advice from so many of the people I've come to know and love on this board.  I don't recall when I've ever been so proud of all of you.

I am now 57.  About 35 years ago, your description of yourself would almost have fit me except I am Jewish, not Asian; and I can't play cards for shit, but that's not important.

What is important is that friends of mine had a mini-intervention and got me to see a therapist who was a Zen Buddhist (From Texas, but spent five years in Japan and had transmission from the veneral Roshi Hakun.)

His main advice to me was to do sitting practice, at least twice a day (first thing in AM and last thing at night) for at least 15 minutes (I started at ten minutes and worked up to 30 minutes after a year.)

We met and talked an hour each week, and also I attended a group session with his other clients one evening per week.

At the start of the session he asked me what I wanted.  I said a girlfriend and money.  He told me to be careful what I ask for because I would get it.  Six years later I was married and had enough money to buy a house for cash.

Warning:  It is difficult, mainly because you don't have to do it.

I would recommend finding a Zen ashram in your area and joining them for sitting practice.  It will only cost you whatever you feel you want to donate to them.

I know it will work.

Best wishes to find your dream.

Your situation is exactly what they are for. Of course, you'll probably have to go through a few before you find one who is a good fit.

IMHO, you should definitely stay out of this hobby. If you're confused and lonely, you're likely to end up more confused, just as lonely, and poorer.

So long as you are not trying to fuck old women, the police will see you as a harmless dweeb. Don't "connect" with people for what you can get, connect as a means to share: ideas, knowledge, etc., and maybe the intimacy will come naturally.

Good advice from Radcow.  (a little rough around the edges but has steered you correctlly.  I do have credentials in the area you need advice from.....a degree in Psychology and certified in Sex and Life Coaching.  Anyway, I might be able to help 678-382-8524...Hanna

That's where they train Jungian analysts or Depth Psychologists. They will be able to refer you. And, I agree with mrfisher, Zen sitting meditation is a good place to start also. Tai Chi is a good way to deal with the fear of personal contact. The more control you develop within yourself, in real-time, with another human being, the more confident you will feel to be in relationship with people.

I posted this above. "Tai Chi is a good way to deal with the fear of personal contact. The more control you develop within yourself, in real-time, with another human being, the more confident you will feel to be in establishing and maintaining relationships with people.

I have read the good advise you've already recieved.  Yes, the group has been very thoughtful today.
I think tattooed_asian's suggestion for massages is a good one & you might want to evolve that into a FBSM...  that's a good way, in my personal experience, to gain some intimate experience with females.  Eventually I'd think about a FS Escort.  I'd suggest the Virgin Treatment...  ie ask them to teach you how to please a woman as well as yourself. There is nothing like the confidence of knowing you can please a partner.  (Do remember, that women are individuals & individual preferances vary.  That's part of the beauty & joy of sex.)
A word of warning.  It is very easy to fall for a beautiful woman you have great sex with.  The providers are great actressses (should get Oscars)...  and then the sex hormones (designed to have the cave man protect the cave lady from maurading dinosaurs) kick in.  We've all done it.  (Ask my ex-w).

The last should not be done in a vacume.  You do need to find yourself.  You need to get out.  Even if just for coffee or a snack at the local eattery.  Be around people.  Interact with them.

You need to look inward, to determine what you like.  Who you want to be.

Yes, you should want a GF.  The confidence mentioned above will help you overcome one fear.  You need to be open to a relationship.  Do not lock yourself into a closet by being exclusively with providers.  Generally, they are not available as GFs & brings a truckload of baggage.  The few that succeed are in spite of the difficulties.  I suggest not "looking for a GF"...  meet women who like the same things you do...

You should plan an option or 2 for the next phase of your life...  yes, you shuld want a carreer.  But what credentials will you need?  What knowledge?  You need to pre-position yourself to succeed at "your next job".

I remember this phase of my life...  it's not easy.  Look ahead...
Best Wishes,
skb

very nice looking & compassionate ladies that can help ease Jamba's angst---hell--they'd certainly help with my "sturm und drang"-------

Thanks, I'm perfectly aware.

ughh but I've tried so many. My last failure at a psychologist led me to come to here. I'll keep looking though!

Zen ashram??? I don't know if that's for me... I know I have a lot of issues going on. But my main goal is just to go out and have fun. I don't have to understand myself more. I'm just stuck because I can't connect with others (due to isolation for so long) and I'm on such a different path.


My goals right now are to do things in my power to create positive chemicals in my brain, like eating, exercising, watching comedies, etc. From here, I've gathered to seek out a life coach, join some type of club (possibly martial arts), maybe find a poker group, try to be in situations that pressure me to be "sexy or cool". As for P4P, still no answer yet.


You guys really think I'll feel more empty? I'm not the kind of guy that will get caught up on losing my virginity to an escort. Most moral implications don't affect me. I'm usually able to rationalize it somehow.

Thanks so this hobby won't make you feel any better. No connection, just sexual relief is what you're saying. I hear ya

Actually I'm susceptible to what you're saying. I try my best not to act like this but it sorta just happens. I get real attached and I do appreciate the warning. And if it does end up happening I guess I'll try not to let it affect the provider. What about learning about sex with someone so I can gain more confidence?

In order to break out of your cycle of social ineptness, you must have self-esteem and self-confidence that comes from achievement. That's really no shortcut in life and you're still young.

Also, as other posters suggested, confront your fear. Just do it; after a few years it wouldn't matter any more and you probably will be glad that you did it.

By the way, 5'7" is not short. I'm 5'5" and feel tall.

Check out this guy. He's 5'8" and thinks he's short:

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=106604&boardID=3

No lol.... I connect with people willing to connect. No offense but old people are usually lonely and they'll be the first to strike up a conversation and I'm talking old, not middle-aged. And I've picked up a few hitchhikers lol (no women yet). Yea thanks for the input though!

I'm a bit different from most people in that I don't really self-identify as my occupation(s). The first thing people ask you in our culture is your occupation; as though one's occupation defines him as a person. But, in a sense, that is very much short-changing the human experience by (very often) stripping Man of all that is important and uniquely human and investing value in the strictly material aspects of his nature. It is as stupid to define me as occupation X as it is to define a provider as strictly a prostitute.

By that I mean not to worry about interests or having any specific interests. Let me tell you some secrets about college degrees.

Our modern educational system sucks so badly that plenty of jobs that a smart person could do with zero college are now only available to those with college degrees. That's so employers can assure that you can read and write; as our high schools (and sadly, colleges) graduate far too many functionally illiterate people. The college degree is the ticket for admission -- basically telling future employers that you were able to stick to a task long enough to achieve it.

In large measure, unless you aim to be a doctor, lawyer or scientist, your specific degree hardly matters. I have degrees in four undergraduate majors plus two advanced degrees; and you know what? I have only worked for 2 years of my life in any field covered by those degrees. All of my other work has been at best tangential and usually unrelated. But the degrees open doors. They impress the crap out of people.

To make this college thing easier, cheaper and something that can coexist with other pursuits; if you wish you can do it entirely by testing and get a general degree in something like Liberal Studies or the like. Charter Oak State College, Thomas Edison State College and Excelsior College all offer fully regionally accredited degrees in this fashion. Once you have a degree in something like Liberal Studies, you can later apply 2/3rds of those credits toward getting some more specialized degree if you discover the need; so that more specialized degree will take only 1/3rd as long as the first one.

Okay -- but now the crux of the issue. You have unmet fundamental needs for the companionship of the opposite sex. And with an unmet fundamental need, it is hard to be driven to achieve a higher calling. I understand.

But now look inside yourself, and really look hard at that need. What are your REAL needs in that regard? Is it simply an orgasm provided by another's hand? Or is it deeper, more fundamental?

The orgasm provided by another, in real life, is not the first thing that comes along in dealing with a woman. Rather, it is a result of many other parts fitting into place first. In the real world, assuming we are dealing with a fairly normal woman, when she has sex with you it is not simply to fulfill her animal needs -- though those certainly may exist. Rather, the fact she puts herself in that position to start with reflects a great many judgments she has made about you as a person. It reflects that she regards you -- not just your penis, but YOU, as a person worthy of her high regard. This can be because of your character traits, your physical makeup, your achievements, and even other things -- and all combined.

In other words, the fundamental need she fulfills in that regard is not the sex. The sex is simply its symbol. What she provides instead, and what is far more valuable and profound, is admiration, respect, acceptance, trust, and more.

So that orgasm provided by another is the culmination of that other person recognizing your value and accepting you.

It is these latter things that you truly lack; though you see it as a need for sex. To be sure, the need for sex is there; but that is just one small part of it.

Because of your intense need for acceptance, trust, admiration, etc.; when you pay a provider for sex you will indeed feel empty. That is because you do not already have within you all of the things of which sex is merely the culmination. So the sex is but a cap on an empty jar. It does nothing to fill the jar.

Think of it as a stolen achievement -- like getting an A on a test where you had paid someone for the answers in advance. The A is real, and it will do good for your GPA; but you wouldn't feel the same about it as an A you earned through your own effort.

This is one reason why I recommend so strongly against it.

Of course, you are going to do what you are going to do; so IF you decide to skip my advice on that; please keep in mind that your lack of self-worth, desperation and need will make you super-easy for a pretty woman to manipulate. You'd be amazed how incredibly easy it can be to manipulate a virginal guy given his first few tastes of the flower; no matter how smart or otherwise capable he may think he is.

Thankfully, most providers either have ethics that would prevent that or, barring an ethical prohibition, would find it inconvenient. Nevertheless, you should be aware that you are uniquely vulnerable to manipulation and guard yourself against it.

To be sure, for many, sex with a provider can be worthwhile, beneficial and really wonderful. But, IMO, you are not at that place.

One other thing you should know. A great many women will outright refuse to engage in any form of intimate relationship with any man who has ever paid a prostitute. Period. Once you do this, it is something you may have to take with you to your grave and lie about. Or else, limit yourself in the future to only women who have no problem with a guy who sleeps with prostitutes. Think about it.

What is right?

There are many answers to that question. That is because what is "right" depends upon context.

Is it right to lie?

What if a terrorist asks you a question, and if you tell him the truth it will cause the deaths of thousands of innocent people?

What if you want to take a little old lady's money; but if you tell the truth she won't part with it?

See what I mean about context?

I realize that there are people who trade in absolutes. Certainly, I have a few myself. But, overall, it must be understood that what is "right" depends very much on who you are, the situation in which you live, the consequences of your actions and more.

There are things that would be "right" for one man to do in a given circumstance, but wrong for another man in a different circumstance.

I was recently engaged in correspondence with a very sharp provider about the subject of a client pissing in a provider's mouth. (No, it is NOT something in which I have any interest! It is simply something I had read in a review.)

Your or my visceral reaction might be "yuck!" But ... hold on. What WE might consider extremely off-putting or even demeaning; the provider who allowed and even encouraged that might have found incredibly arousing and even a source of empowerment.

The act in and of itself is merely an act devoid of moral content. It is the mindsets, circumstances and proclivities of the participants that give it its context and allow it to be judged within the framework of their context.

So I can't tell you what is "right;' but I CAN tell you the easy way of ascertaining it. If what you did was right, all participants benefitted and none were harmed. What is "right" creates an upward spiral of mutual symbiotic benefit.

You can foresee the consequences of your actions. Use that foresight to determine what is "right' and you'll do better than most.

Good luck and don't despair!

A martial arts class/club is a good idea.  You should have a physical activity club in your list, I recommend one physical and one non-physical.  The goal is to create an excuse to interact with people. Keep in mind that when (when, not if) one club doesn't work out, find another club to replace it.  Don't give up.

The other thing you may want to attempt looking into is "day game" and other resources for picking up women.  Hunt google and google video for the acronym PUA and similar terms.  That should give you some good info.  You may also want to check out some of the PUA forums.

These guys give a lot of good information for people with low self esteem and "approach anxiety" as they call it.  But first and foremost always remember to just have fun in life and not to take anything too seriously.  If you find yourself interested in a girl and you work up the nerve to ask her out then don't let it affect you if you get shot down.  Take the experience and learn from it.  There are plenty of fish in the sea and no reason to get caught up just cause one of them doesn't want to swim with you.

Also, remember that one of the biggest hurdles to overcome is feeling like you need to make an impression.  If instead you just try to talk and see what happens then you may hit it off.

Lastly, to overcome your issues you should attempt to talk to everyone, not just people you are interested (women).  If you go to the cafe and there is a guy behind you in line, talk to him about something.  When you get to the counter, talk to the girl at the register and make a joke about the tip jar (ask her why it is so empty and tell her she might not be working hard enough [with a smile], perhaps she should jump up on the counter and dance and you would definitely chip in).  

Women don't need to be cute for you to flirt with either.  If you flirt with the average/plain/ugly ones then when the time comes to flirt with a 10 you will be more prepared, and there is much less pressure in flirting with the average/plain/ugly.

Just get out and talk to everyone you meet.  Tell stories and be sincere.  But remember to always be sure you are only doing it to have fun, if you forget that it can only lead to more self esteem issues.

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=16714&boardID=20&page=1&

Nobody has brought in popcorn, beer, pretzels or nothing. Just keep giving advise to an obvious troll, looking for action to which he/she got. Geesh

PUUUUULLLEEEAAASE

I will second most of what johngaltnh has posted here, as well as add four specific recommendations:
1) Therapy with an eye toward Cognitive Behavioral modification will give you some benefits in short-term (6 months or less) that will pay you long-term benefits. Find a therapist who bases treatment upon these principles and with whom you connect.

2) Get out in the world and meet people. One of the best options might be via MeetUp -- check to see if there are some groups of potential interest to you in your area. No pressure for the most part, just find a group or two that sounds like fun and give them a try.

3) At age 23, you still (hopefully) have plenty of time to make mid-course corrections on your path. What has happened in the past -- well, acknowledge it, deal with it and use it as a guide for what NOT to do with the rest of your life.

4) Avoid p4p for now. It's a fantasy, not real life. You need to get your real life together and then, if need be, have some fun playing in the candy shop. But if you get your real life together, you will find less need for the candy -- you can be more selective.

Best of luck --

Hey man, thanks for writing all this... I really am taking all this in. However I want to give you my perspective.

1. I agree with not identifying with your job. 100% agree with you but regardless of how you decide not to identify yourself with it, others still will. It's how we support ourselves in this world and probably at least 50% of your life. Whatever you do becomes what you think of.

2. College degrees. Yes college degrees are overrated. It's almost less about the degree and more about the, yes I did it. So knowing all that? Do I continue with college or not? I know it's a sense of feeling like you're going somewhere, although you don't know where it is or if you'll like it. I don't need money at the moment. My life has always been about money and I've always been good with money. I sold things in school, cds/candy/cards/stolen things/etc. But that's about all I'm good at. I need help with other areas of my life and I don't know how to get it. No ones here to teach me.

3. TER Hobby. After reading what you wrote, I think I decided that I'm not going through with this. About women not wanting to engage people who've done this: The way I see it is I'm not going to engage women as my current self anyway. If I can become a better person by doing this, my past shouldn't matter. Everyone has to struggle to get to where they want to be. This is my struggle. I also agree with the stolen achievement part, I wouldn't want that. And I wouldn't want the burden of carrying a lie for the rest of my life. Although I think true men shouldn't have to lie about this stuff. If I go through with this, I surely wouldn't be one to lie. I'd just say I needed it at the time.

4. What's right? I think it's all about societies morals and what you grew up to believe. My values and beliefs were shattered when I realized how my parents are functioning so I'm no one to talk to about that. I think poker is wrong. I should've stayed in school, gotten a good job, been more of a straight edge. Who knows? But those are one-track-minded people, people that I envy cuz they know who they are don't really worry about anything. I used to be one of those people so I know.


Yeah definitely the high regard part had me sold. I wouldn't want to do anything with anyone who thought lesser of me and only did it cuz I paid them. That's a no no, in my book.

alright man, no need to troll... i'll be wrapping this up shortly. Just needed a boost? ya know?

I was feeling pretty shitty last night so I needed somewhere to vent. Thanks for your all your input. I'm really taking them in. Don't mean to take up the front page of your discussion board. Apparently some don't like it! Thanks to all who helped. I will re-read the comments and take everyones advice...

I always forget it. Can't understand why!

YES, YES, YES.

Both johngaltnh and trex44 are spot on, on all counts.

There's a time and place for everything.  The trick is to figure out what time you're in, and seek what's helpful for you now.  There's a time and place for fantasy, but where you are right now is neither the time nor the place.

Please print out both posts by johngaltnh and trex44.  Pursue those courses and see how things go.  Don't look for immediately solutions, but for long term joy.  "Everybody overestimates what they can accomplish in a year;  Everybody underestimates what they can accomplish in five."  Ask who you want to become by age 28... and start working toward that!

Best of luck!

Become involved in an activity, organization, or group that facilitates your helping others.  It will allow you to focus outside yourself, gain fullfillment, and meet new and potentially exicting people.

You are bound to get the inane comments from the duplicitous, the half-witted, and the emotionally retarded. Don't let it bug ya... everyone knows who tha assholes and are, and you can always smell what they have to say.

Keep Posting Man!

HalfHour

Sounds like a huge case of anxiety and low self esteem. Seeing a provider would probably help but you would have to be very careful in chosing one that understands upfront your issues and will take the time to be patient and understanding. The risk here is crossing the boundary between a service and emotion.

Think carefully about what you want at the momemt, then down the road and how you can separate wants from needs and don't overburden or overthink what could be an terrifically uplifitng experience. Spend some of the cash, live in the moment and enjoy life each day and don't worry about what you have, worry about the quality of your life and how you can enjoy each day 1 step, 2 steps breathe.

okay, i apologize ahead if these things have already been said, but i really didnt want to read every post.  Dude, as a younger fellow asian, my best advice to you would be to go back to school and join some clubs and fraternities you find interesting.  I've always said to people that the true value of high school and college is not so much the things you learn about history and flora and fauna, but rather the social skills you pick up.  Clubs and business/association fraternities are non-threatening and they welcome everyone.
Stop worrying so much about what people think (a lot of self esteem issues derive from this I've heard) and just be you.  Don't worry about impressing people with your material things or your earning power - just join a club, talk to people, and watch how everything gets easier.  And don't worry about rejection - it's a part of life.
Personally, i think you should get some professional help (social anxiety).  but that's up to you.  i know people in that field, and i have lots of confidence in them.  As far as the hobby goes, STAY AWAY for now - concentrate on building a normal relationship, as you'll need these skills the rest of your life.  Now, if you're 30 and still haven't, then maybe.  But til then, work on real life, as the hobby will always be here.  Set a goal - like having a gf by age XX and work towards it.  If by then you're still uncomfortable with women, get a few HIGHLY rated older providers not just for "it" but to talk to and pick their brains.  Hope this helps.  take care and good luck.

Life is too short my Asian brother!  
I got married at 23 and my wife had our first child the next year.  Was not able to enjoy being young and irresponsible, when you're raising a kid, starting out in marriage as well as career.  You're 23 years old have tons of money in the bank, kick ass poker player and probably driving a BMW.  You are taking care of your parents as most Asians do as they respect the elders as they should be respected with dignity.  If a provider is going to be your first, make it worth your while!  If you fancy Asians select one that offers a GFE. Perhaps there are groupie poker chicks !  Not saying to love them, but just have fun with them.  If you were not seriously considering TER, why are you here?  Don't wait around for the perfect GF.  It's not going to drop in your lap! If you blow tons of money, your skill is poker, win it back and you'll had the pleasure of being with all sorts of women.  Do you notice that some porn star work some circuits usually in Vegas.  Because there are mostly old guys that have disposable income that would pay $1g to say that " I banged a porn star." Point is, we don't know when are time is up, so you need to live now not later!  Just do it, Like TIGER!

Both the question and the answers benefit all of of us -- writers and readers alike.

You can't enter the TER lifestyle hoping to be fixed or fulfilled. You can enter it with the intention of having fun and exploring, and maybe in the meantime something meaningful might happen but life comes with no guarantees.

I agree seek counseling. Not because there's something "wrong" with you, but because a third party that is unattached to your life that you can say ANYTHING to is a good sounding board.  But not any counselor will do, you'll have to shop around to find a good fit for you.

However, I think hobbying can be great for self discovery.  Like a counselor - it's a safe space. Unattached to your life, where you can sort of test out who you are, explore yourself and your partner, without any repercussions to your life as long as you don't do anything incredibly stupid.   I would suggest researching carefully and selecting independents that are known to have a kind and warm nature.  If you find someone you really enjoy, who also really enjoys you, become a regular. It may really be good for your self esteem and make dating outside of this life less frightening.  However liking her isn't enough, you really have to try and get a read to see if it's mutual.  If it's a one way deal, it's not going to help much.

Yes, finish college. Don't go back until you know what you'd love to do. Certainly there must be subjects or areas in life for which you have great passion - explore them, pursue them, and when you find something that clicks for you. In the meantime you'll have to go out, meet people - and people with similar interests.  Then go to college get the paper work and build a career. There are plenty of jobs that aren't 9 - 5: there's a million ways you can be a freelancer, a consultant, and independent contractor.

All you need to do is learn to love yourself, not give a damn what other people think about you, and let go.

Look Dude, you're a virgin at 23 ? No Girlfriend ?

Side aside $10K of your cash and do something -  pay an escort., give a girl a gift, or just go out and spend it on women.  Be BRAVE and pull the trigger! Call some girls and meet up with them.

I've gone out with girls taller than me, so 5'7" is not a problem.

Think of someone else for a change!

The answer to your question is to really understand deeply what Radcow stated: "...some of the bad providers will take you for a ride and not in you 35k car. They'll loosen up your 100k bank account and call you Tim. That's short for ATM. You'll be a hit until your clinginess becomes stalker-ish. "

IMO you would be very ripe for the picking. If you ever DO a provider, you might fall in love.  Nothing wrong with falling in love, but it's really easy to mix it up with falling in lust.

Once more, if you ever DO a provider, enjoy the falling in love/lust feeling, but remember its a paid fantasy.

The best advice I could give you, is try your best to find a close friend, that you can be real with.  You may also want to go see a therapist, because you sound like you have deeper issues going on, that a simple blog (this blog) can't solve.

With seeing escorts, if you're this inscecure about yourself, being around people the providers you see will pick up on this. And it may turn them off, and they more then likely will not want to see you again, because you'll come off as clingy.

Also keep in mind, since you never have had a relationship, understand that these women are providers, and will not be your girlfriend. Having never had a relationship before, you may start getting feelings for a provider. If you decide to start seeing providers, limit the amount of times you see a provider on normal, becuase in your mind you'll start to think it's a relationship.

But I hope you do well

Where are you located? If your in Atlanta I will show you the way