I am clueless to this term, so I inquired with another TER member who sent me this as a response:

Korean Organization (Korean agency) Usually woman that really don't speak english and speak korean etc. prices vary from places but in the west side the prices are better then indy's and have more value since its literally gfe built in. Also they do screen clients and are no AA clients

 
To me this sounds, like human trafficing could be a possibility in this particular situation, or a pimping/pandering. Who does this really appeal too? The females speak No English, so you can’t communicate it’s a high traffic low budget business very high risk.

Just waiting for this to blow up.

END OF MESSAGE

To finish happy hour first so I’ll be a little more mellow.  Lol

You do know of the old saying right?  

 
It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open your mouth and remove all the doubt !

 
According to some sources, the great Mark Twain, (Samuel Langhorne Clemens for all you homeboys) who wrote classics like Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, and Adventures of Tom Sawyer is attributed with that quote. Some sources claim that Abe Lincoln said that..  

 
The debate over the source of the quote is a better debate...I thinks..  

 
What y'all think?

to another provider or a TER  member who actually sees Kgirls?  Many indie providers have been making a false human trafficking claim against Kgirls (term used for those that work for Korean agencies) for years, mainly because the Kgirls are taking their customers, because they offer better service and lower prices.  It's a completely false narrative.  I will address your points individually . . . .  

 
But first my qualifications to speak on this topic.   I have sessioned with over 1000 different Kgirls, and have been a real-life boyfriend to over a dozen of them over the years.  (Women who are trafficked are not allowed to have outside boyfriends, nor are they allowed to reside in their own apartment away from the incall location, own their own car, and travel when and where they want to.  If you think this sounds more like an indie provider who uses an agency to book customers, you would be right.)  Having been in real relationships with Kgirls, I have learned just about everything there is to know about Kgirls and the Kgirl business model.  Because I'm a high-volume customer, I have become close to several of the agency owners and bookers, where I have learned other things about the business from the org's perspective.  

 
First of all, the vast majority do speak English.  If you look at the link below, and scroll down to school curriculum, you will see that English is REQUIRED for Korean students starting in the third grade.  Just like Americans that study foreign languages in high school, it's easy to forget a lot of it after you graduate from high school and are not using it regularly.  There are NONE that speak NO English, but many are rusty and so it comes across as just basic English.  Some will even downplay their English skills so that they don't have to talk to customers they don't like.   I have seen many Kgirls that were very chatty with me, but who had reviews that said they didn't speak English.  

 
The combination of weak English and not knowing how to properly verify or screen a new customer is why they generally work for an agency, and while some are fluent enough to do their own screening, many of these will still use an agency because it's less time-consuming to just give the org their cut, for which they get the booking services AND a location to work from that they don't have to support financially (other than the percentage) or have their name on the lease of apartment where sexual services are given.  

 
Kgirls offer a basic GFE menu which includes, DFK, BBBJ, DATY and CFS.  Most will offer additional menu items like CIM, FIV and Rimming.  Others may also add BBFS and CIP, usually for an upcharge, which goes all to the girl, similar to indies that upcharge for this service.  

 
Most Kgirls were already sex workers in Korea.  They are recruited from the "salons" (night clubs) where they serve as hostesses to male customers and they are allowed to make arrangements with a customer to leave with them at some point to provide sexual services.  The culture there prefers younger girls, so these girls are usually furloughed out by age 30, at which time they are recruited by the agencies here to come and make three or four times what they made in salon work.  Many never go back to Korean, but some do.  I visit a retired Kgirl in Korea every year because I invested in her yoga/pilates/fitness studio after she retired.  After her salon years, she worked her for about a year and saved most of the money to open the studio, and is now doing very well.  I go once a year to examine the books and receive my cut of the profits.  

 
While there are occasional LE busts of Kgirl incall locations, I have never heard of Kgirls being trafficked.  (However, Kgirls have learned if they are busted by LE they should make this claim because the policy in states like California is "catch and release" for immigrant providers who claim they are trafficked.  They will just go to another state and work for another Kgirl org)   The vast majority of human trafficking in the US involves Latina girls from Central and South America, many of them here illegally.  Years ago, there was a Thai org that was a little heavy-handed that bordered on sex slavery because of the financial arrangement the girls had to agree to, and there have been Chinese orgs in the Bay Area that lured girls here to work and then forced them into sex work.  The news reports of the day back then only labeled them as "Asian", but like I said, I have never heard a Kgirl say anything about being trafficked, or even knowing any Korean women that were trafficked.  Sex work is more accepted in Korea than here and about 15% of Korean women will engage in sex work at some point in their lives.

To being up a very controversial topic. To chew the fat....to engage....Well they ask for it...lol
To those who solely or mostly see KGirls, those will dispute how you view this, and those on the other side might somewhat agree with how you see it. Me, I kinda get how you see it, although it's not so cut and dry.
But this topic sure beats the hell out of the "I fell in love with a hooker"  or the "Deposits or No Deposit" garble.

Sorry if I offend anyone.  I responded with my take to the TER member & he never replied. I have had in the past my own experiences, so I’m going to respond to your long defensive reply. Yes. You can be pumped on, or human trafficked & have your own apartment with boyfriends that supply benefits that’s absolutely right. Your still paying in some form.

-- Modified on 10/30/2022 11:39:51 PM

Sorry to digress but I have much better things to do with a girl's mouth.

My favorite was this cute girl from Brazil.  She had an English speaking assistant to handle phone work and scheduling...this was back before texting.  In the room she had a sheet of paper with a number of "frequently uses phrases" written out like: "would you like to have a shower?"

This brings back a lot of good memories as the girl was so pleasant to be with in addition to having highly skilled tongue, throat, and hands.  No trafficking here.  She was an independent businesswoman with a multitude of skills.

I have also seen a good number of girls thru agencies that spoke no English.  Mostly Spanish with local agencies and also Russian with XO Companions.

on Kgirls being pimped and trafficked?  These girls tour from city to city at their own will.  You are trying to put them in the same class with streetwalkers, which just compounds your ignorance on this business model.  The agency merely provides a location for them to work and they are free to come and go as they please.  If a girl arrives in a new location, and business is slow, she is free to leave anytime she wants and go to a different city, which is a DIFFERENT org and independent from the last one she worked at.  There are some orgs that have affiliates in other cities, but for the most part, they are separate and run by separate people.  

 
Like MANY indies nearing or over 40, Kgirls are always on the lookout for a viable exit to retire from the business, so they will take a real-life boyfriend to test compatibility and commonality JUST LIKE indies do.  This is completely different from a pimp which is YOUR "boyfriend providing benefits."  The relationship is the same as I would have with a civvie girl I'm vetting as a long-term partner, except she drives to work at an incall rather than an office, and earns four or five times as much as in an office job. Many others are single moms with children, or have dependent aged parents that they are helping, and sex work provides the needed income to take care of them.  I know several right now who are putting a child through college, the same as you might do.  

 
These girls have much more control over their own business than you think.  You are just not familiar with the industry, so you want to jump straight to the indie party-line that they are trafficked just because they are Asian.   I have told many people here that they should not post speculative comments as "facts" about things they know nothing about.  Now I will say this to you about your asinine conclusions about the Kgirl business.   The next time you want information about the Kgirl business, why not spend some time on the Kgirl board.  If you don't my straightforward response, there are many others there who ALSO know that the deal is with Kgirls, their orgs and the business model.  Picking a casual Kgirl customer "who sees Kgirls" at random may get you misinformation that will cloud your understanding of the business.  There are others on the Kgirl board who have dated Kgirls, and a few that have even helped some retire by marrying them, and they didn't have to "buy" the girl from a pimp.  Lol    Some have been happily married for years because in real life, it's not always the same personality that works the incall when it's "showtime."

-- Modified on 10/31/2022 8:56:28 AM

English is NOT a required subject in public schools like it is in Korea.  

-- Modified on 10/31/2022 9:10:36 AM

Love your analysis CDL..  Pretty in-depth.  

 
I do have a genuine question though... How do these young women get VISAs to come to United States? Should it raise red flag with USCIS?

Excellent point.  

It’s easy to not accept the fact that this is what it is. We are all adults & can agree to disagree. This is what you fellas call it, a f@?! Board.  

I’m not going to be disrespectful & reciprocate the hate that is overflowing everyday here. Call me names all you want. Sticks & stones love. It is a great topic to debate regardless. MVP= Most Valuable Bia lol Smile for me!

It’s Halloween cool your titties!

-- Modified on 10/31/2022 5:00:02 AM

-- Modified on 10/31/2022 11:35:20 AM

And are probably being extorted in some way. And can you imagine if she leaves the “agency” without fulfilling their obligation. I’m sure this plays out.

the Korean girls who come here except for a desire to pay debts they have back in Korea for themselves or their families.  You are thinking of the Thai agencies, where they would advance money for new tits, travel, and other incidentals like photo shoots, and the girl signed a contract to stay at the agency until she had earned enough to pay off the $10,000-$15,000 or so that was advanced to her for these expenses.  This, on its face, doesn't seem too bad, but some were charging the girls usurious interest on top of the debt, and that's why I said earlier they were borderline trafficking, and it led to the collapse of this business model in several US cities several years ago.  

 
The Kgirls come here with the tits they already have, natural or upgrades, as can be seen from the agency ads, with plenty of girls of every size from A to DD.  Remember that they are recruited out of salon work, so while many want to earn more, they are not necessarily "broke" when they arrive the way Thai girls would be if they were not advanced some expenses.  Usually, within 60-90 days, Kgirls have their own residence separate from the incall, and have made a significant dent in whatever debts they have.  The ones that are 90-day wonders here on a visa waiver just sleep at the incall and go home in three months with 90% of what they made because their only expense is food.  The ones that are staying here want to have their own apartment in Ktown and live the American dream.  Your statement that, "I'm sure it plays out" is not credible because everything leading up to that is sheer speculation on your part.

I think the debt scenario is more prevalent in the Chinese AMP business model. I met a Chinese AMP girl about 5 years ago. She was really good in bed a easy on the eyes. I saw her three or four times in a short period. She gave me her phone number and we texted after she moved on. When I asked when she was coming back to my area she said that she didn’t know, and had no control. That was my last time ever at a Chinese house, as I reached the conclusion that the ladies were trafficked.  
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I’ve become friendly with a few KGirls since and my experience is that they aren’t being trafficked. Two that I know actually owned their own homes in cities far from where they work. And they usually know their travel schedule because they make their own schedules. While I’ve never had a KGirl girlfriend, my experience is very similar to cdl’s with regard to KGirls.

I’m quite certain that some are being trafficked and some chose this line of work. Being a frequent flyer of K-agencies and also apt to believe what I’m told by their providers who I have good rapport with, many k-girls provide by choice. For instance, one highly rated provider I’ve seen numerous times told me that she chooses when she visits, only works on the east coast and lives on the west, and her visits are usually based on when she’s not visiting her family or not gearing up for an online video game tournament. I was also once told that most girls who are forced to do this only service a closer network of clients of the same ethnicity and aren’t allowed to see or speak to “foreigners”. You aren’t likely to find them on TER.

They don't really need a visa issues ahead of time. The USA and ROK have an agreement that their respective citizens can basically show up and stay for up to 90 days without visa issued ahead of time. Also, many will get a student visa that is good for 5 years and study English or fashion -- probably something else but never heard other subject areas mentioned.

 
They do need to complete an online registration (good for a number of years) before actually arriving but I don't think that is really a screening process like a formal visa interview would be.  

 
You can do the same think if you want to go to Korea. But the electronic filing is something new in the past year or so and used to be you could just buy the plane ticket and get a stamp at the boarder no fuss no muss.

are both countries that participate in the visa-waiver program.  I believe I cited this in one of my posts on this thread.  They can come for up to six months in a two-year period with no Visa, but most like to come for 90 days, go back and then come back for another 90 days within the two-year time period.  The reason is that the 90-day girls will often work two weeks straight before taking a day off.  They are all about maximizing the revenue they generate for the 90 days, and most are physically exhausted and need a longer break after the 90 days are up, so they will return to Korea for 6 months or longer and then return for the second 90-day stint.  They don't need a Visa or any other permission, they only need a passport to get stamped at any US POE.  

 
There is only risk if they overstay the six months they are allowed in the 2-year period.  However, there is a way around that by enrolling in an accredited English language school and the school will get them an F-1 student visa.  Processing takes about 6 to 8 weeks through the school.  It must be real and their progress will be monitored.  They will be sent packing if they try to scam the system.   The other way around it is to have a sponsoring family member here who already has a green card.  A well-known bay area girl came here this way and got a two-year temporary green card through her sister, who was already here.  Some girls get green cards by marrying Americans.  It's not uncommon to see the English workbooks laying around the incall for the Kgirls that go the F-1 route.  Kgirls who overstay their visa are technically at risk for deportation, but from a practical standpoint, since California is a sanctuary state, being here illegally is not a big deal, and that's why California is the most attractive place for them to work.  You can assume that nearly all of the girls who tour to other states either go only to sanctuary cities, or have already worked out their immigration status to something legal.  

 
As Jensen points out, above, they also have to be approved through an online ETSA application, which is just a check to make sure they are not exceeding the number of days they are allowed in a two year period.  They enter all of the info contained in their passport and answer a few questions.  If they are not yet eligible to travel to the US they will let you know.  This system was set primarily to avoid people showing up HERE at a POE and THEN finding out they are not eligible to travel here until the two year window is up and they can begin another travel window.  

-- Modified on 10/31/2022 8:32:04 PM

Can BTS speak English?  No.  Why not - they had the same 12 years of English as all other Korean students.  The only one who can speak English well is RM.  Why?  Was he a much better student than the others?  No, he learned English from watching reruns of Friends.

 
"Korean  students learn English from elementary school to high school, totally 12 years.  They learn basically American English.  However, their English skill is extremely bad, because of the worst education culture of South Korea in the world.  South Korean education is always focused on passing tests and finally entering a good university.  Therefore, most South Koreans are actually monolingual. They can’t speak in English..."
                                                        --Neky Choe (Kim Jinwon)
Kim Jinwon was born and raised in Ulsan, South Korea, and is a postgraduate, majoring in Education of the Korean language as a Foreign Language.  
CDL was born and raised in the USA; doesn't know jack about Education of the Korean language as a Foreign Language.
http://www.quora.com/Do-Korean-people-learn-English-in-school-Is-it-a-compulsory-subject-or-one-of-many-languages-to-choose
 

Are the K-girls who come to the US university graduates?  I highly doubt it.  If they could have passed the university entrance exams, they wouldn't have to work in the Korean salons and then come to the US to be hookers.  If they aren't university graduates, it stands to reason that they weren't very good students and therefore can't speak English.

has never even met a Kgirl versus me, who has seen over a thousand.  Bwahahahahaha    I already said that many downplay their English skills so they don't have to chat with customers they don't like.  So your authority is the OPINION of some random Korean guy who went to school in Korea.  My link was to Wikipedia and your source even corroborated that it is taught in grades 3-12.  If there are students like you that didn't pay attention in school, then of course, there may be a few that didn't learn what they were being taught.  Are you forgetting that almost all of our Kgirls worked in the Korean salons before being recruited for here, where the customers are often visiting American businessmen?  If they don't speak ANY English, then they have not chance with American customers visiting Seoul.   I have been to salons.  Have you?  Cue crickets or more bullshit.  You choose.  You love to pick the outliers for your sources.  Not smart or credible.  Then your conclusions are always extensions of your other speculations and assumptions.  You're a real piece of work.

girls tend to be pimped only to customers of the same nationality is one of the reasons most Kgirl customers have never been with a trafficked Kgirl, but most of us have inadvertently wandered into a Chinese operation at least once back in the day where the girls were clearly not there of their own accord.  By eliminating "foreign" customers more recently, they have learned they will have longer to operate between LE busts.  American customers are often disgusted at the plight of the girls and report the operation.   Nevertheless, there just aren't any trafficked Kgirls that I have heard of in the last 15 years.  It's the same with Latinas being trafficked.  Most wind up in rural agricultural areas servicing farm workers who also speak Spanish.  They move them around from place to place in old travel trailers to avoid LE.

Thanks to both of you.. Jensen and CDL.. I only thought Canada and Western European countries had that agreement with the US.. I didn't know about S.Korea.

Is Las. Vegas a Sanctuary City (for these purposes)?

countries in the Visa Waiver Program . . . . .

 
Andorra
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brunei
Chile
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Monaco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Poland
Portugal
San Marino
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
United Kingdom

 
Dust off that passport and pick a country to go sample their working girls.   Lol

You still think Wikipedia is an encyclopedia.  You still have no clue what Wikipedia is.  And you didn't even read the entire article.  You stopped when you read how many years of English Korean students take.  Read the rest of it to see the "trajectory" of the career path of K-girls.  Yes, I'll take the word of a postgraduate majoring in Education of the Korean language as a Foreign Language as opposed to an anonymous person who contributed an article to Wikipedia.  Thanks for showing you are Clueless, De-Lion.

opinion of Koreans in general, EVEN THOUGH HE MAKES NO MENTION OF SEX WORKERS, then you go ahead and grasp at  straws.  Your lack of personal experience with Kgirls just makes you look stupid when you participate in arguments like this.  Your conclusions are wrong, because they are not about Kgirls, only Koreans who did not pay attention in school and who did not work in Salons where their success making money with American customers partly depended on their English skills.  Thanks for showing you are both arrogant and clueless, Mr. NO-EXPERIENCE wannabe Kgirl expert.  Bwahahahahaha

 
This one was actually such a waste of time, I'm cancelling you and putting you on ignore.  I'll check back in 30 days and see if you have started posting things that you actually know about.  If not, you will cease to exist.  

Why would Kgirls be any different than other Koreans regarding how much attention they paid in school during English class? Because, on the face of it, I can't see any reason why their experience would be different from the norm.

...when they were students, they wouldn't have ended up as K-girls.

 
If they would have busted their asses and passed the university entrance exams, they would have wound up graduating college and getting good jobs.  Instead, they were lousy students in both Korean studies AND English so they went to work in Salons and then came to the US after they "aged out" of the salons.  That's why they don't speak English.

 
Only a coward puts people on "ignore."  Only someone who constantly is on the losing end of debates runs away and puts people on "ignore."  Here is a photo of CDL ignoring me:

the Seoul salons, where the most coveted customers are Americans because they are the only ones that come from a culture of tipping.  Tipping is not common in Japan or Korea, where most of the non-American customers are from.  A salon sex worker has no chance to bag an American for sex services unless they speak enough basic English to communicate.  I'm not say they are all perfectly fluent, but I have not encountered a Kgirl that spoke NO English at all. There is a wide range of fluency, and at least in the last ten years, the agencies have not been recruiting girls that do not know enough of the vernacular to be a sex worker and communicate on a basic level with the customers here. The day of girls that spoke no English was 18-20 years ago.  That is a thing of the past.

What can go wrong? Trafficking? Extortion?...Maybe it's rare, maybe it's prevalent...who knows.
Relax CDL.....lol

And here you are!!!!   Lol   There is no doubt that this goes on in some places like Southeast Asia, Africa, Central America and other 3rd-world shitholes, but it does not happen with Kgirls and Korgs, which is the SUBJECT of this thread.  If you are suggesting it does, you are misinformed and should check your source for credibility.  You seem to have a predilection for speculation and assumption that does not serve you well.  

 
Never underestimate the power of the Kgirl network.  Most potential new Kgirls already know girls who are living the good life in the US as high-earners, so they know exactly what the deal is here before they sign on, so when the recruiter comes knocking, they are ready with eyes wide open about what to expect.  

-- Modified on 11/3/2022 9:18:09 AM

You obviously haven't been to Central America if you think it's all a "3rd-world shithole." Maybe take a trip to Costa Rica and Panama before you smear those places again.

Allow USA citizens entry without having a visa issued prior to arrival, 142 according to the link here. The waiver program just lets you know which have reciprocal arrangements. Some, like the Philippines, are very accommodating. Show and you're welcome there for 30 days. You can stop by their DFA office a day or two before the 30 days and get an extension (forget if that is for an additional 30 days or if more is possible) or just leave the country for a day and you're welcome back in for another 30 days.

My list is only the countries with reciprocity since we were talking about Kgirls coming HERE.  Americans have long had favored status in the tourism industry and get benefits in many countries that are not reciprocal.  

The debt they got back home is one of common reasons they want to accumulate money fast in high-volume environment.

 
Some agencies used to hold passports until girls paid off the girls part of the cut for housing etc. It's also how they got girls to play by their rules.

 
Pretty sure these kinda practices are pretty much gone tho. No one is strongarming them. But obviously if they don't pay the org and jet they might not be welcome at the next org.

money to Kgirls pretty much ended with ROK's entry into the Visa Waiver Program, around 2006.  However, this model was used with Thai girls coming to work here until about 5 years ago.   I have only been in the Kgirl scene since 2008, and never ran into a girl who did not have her passport with her, unless she already had a temporary or permanent green card.  It's pretty easy for me to get them to show me their passport or driver's license, so I have seen hundreds of them.  Nobody ever said the org was holding their passport.  I'd be surprised if you were seeing Kgirls when these practices were still being done, but these stories from the earliest days of Kgirls are still floating around, so not surprised a lot of guys have heard them.  

Wasn't there mainstream exposees of the cosmetic surgery industry in S Korea?  Maybe even a 60 Minutes episode? It's one of their major and very highly regarded industries. However, girls get suckered into all kinds of unnecessary procedures, incur huge debts to do so (maybe borrowing from loan sharks?), and then have to get into the escort biz to pay off those debts.  
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Previous discussions of the topic:  
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/k-girl-113/kgirl-debts-25290
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/k-girl-113/s-korea-is-known-as-the-plastic-surgery-capital-of-the-world-5231

I thought it was Lincoln but I may have removed all doubt  by saying so.

 

Sorry for the long response but I didn't have time to write a short one.

They all speak some English and most are great with translation apps. For those K-girls who have more limited English they can communicate perfectly well with translation apps, and some are stunningly fast at using them. My biggest problem is that I use reading glasses, which I don't wear during the session. She either figures that out right away or once I tell her, and then she switches to a larger font or voice translation both ways. So long as you can read (English), you can have a perfectly normal conversation with her, albeit with a mix of speaking and text.

As far as being trafficked, most travel on their own, and are often active tourists when not working. I get real name and contact information from favorites when they are willing to share (many are). Trafficked women aren't allowed to do those things.