Day after day, there are threads posted here about "developing feelings for a provider."

And even in threads that aren't about that, there are always members here who are very protective of certain girls. Clearly indication that some feelings already have developed.

We're constantly seeing subjects like "intimacy" and "pleasuring her" come up. Men worrying more about offending a provider than most do about offending non working girls. And I won't even delve into the whole "white knight" and "mangina" thing.

But I wonder if that's a new thing? A possible result of the GFE phenomenom? With all these girls pretending to be out girlfriends, have the lines between fantasy and reality become blurred? Not to get all Carry Bradshaw on everyone, but it seems like in the real world women have a hard time distinguishing between love and sex. And in this hobby, it's men that sometimes get mixed up.

I'm not old enough to know if it was always like this, but I'm guessing no. After the movie Pretty Woman came out, most believed working girls don't kiss clients. It was too personal. Not sure if that was ever true or not, but I really think kissing and cuddling, playing boyfriend and girlfriend with some young beauty who wouldn't normally give us the time of day, has really fucked with some mens' perspective.

What say you?

I have seen men have the same sort of reaction to strippers for years, even girls who work in non-contact clubs.  Some men are just plain lonely and looking for a connection in all the wrong places.  It is very possible to have a connection without being too clingy and to develop sexual intimacy without dependency.

Two mature adults can handle it without losing sight of the fact that the entire situation is based on an exchange of cash.

You really do sound like Carry Bradshaw. LOL. I agree with you. I think in civilian relationships the woman gets sex and love confused while in the hobby the men do. At least I found this to be true in my experiences as a provider.

Kisses,

Alex.

I'm a provider. I know that some of them really think it's BFE/GFE. And I don't mean they just think we enjoy the experience too. Sometimes we do. Or I do. I have lots of clients I love spending time with and I have fun. But then there are those who take it to the next level. Saying "I love you" in every email. Rearranging a hectic schedule to come and visit you. I have one client fly to see me for a day engagement every two weeks, because he really believes in the fantasy. That's over $5000/month from this one dude, because he really believes in the GFE. It's flattering. He's a nice guy and someone has to treat him right. I don't mind it being me.

if they can't keep it straight in their heads, then they shouldn't play. This isn't for everyone, no matter how much some might want it to be for them.

There are ladies who I have become friends with. I know their families, their day job and yes if someone on the board attacks them (as some do) I will stand up and defend them. I never use an alias it is all done above board, so most can figure out if I have a favorite. I will stand up for other ladies or gents if I feel they are being harassed without cause even if I don't know them. But no; I do not profess my love to any of them, I paid for my sex and that is what I got.

There will always be a persistent and clear difference between women who sell their bodies and women who present themselves as equals, offering their minds and talent; men may seek to "rescue" the former, but it is the latter that they become enamored with. Longer term relationships with one's companion is not a new aberration among this latter group; it has historically been the norm. Sport fucking was traditionally left to the brothel houses.

(The problem is that the true court Courtesan or Geisha are romantic terms that are often thrown around and rarely effectively lived up to. Here, I am not equating GFE with "Courtesan," but rather seeking to point out that relationships and emotional attachment are not novel concepts in this lifestyle.)

can develop. We are human after all. Chemistry is exactly that. To keep it in a healthy perspective one must always make account of reality. That should put the damper on self destructive expectations. That's if you like to skirt the edge which brings its own kind of rush.

to think up shit like this. Are you trying to prove some goofy theory you come up with.

Let us see you have a civilian GF, you wine and dine her and you may or may not get in her pants. Some of us want to avoid all that just want great sex and some of us are mature enough to develop feelings and how to handle it. Some ask questions what, why and how.

If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room! lol

Then again, I spent 3 years in a SSRI induced chemical lobotomy. As far as I'm concerned feelings are to be treasured, the good and the bad. To not feel is not to live.

If it weren't so, there would be no hobby, no PSE, no GFE, blah, blah, blah. So why are so many guys here hung up on what the other guys are doing, with providers, behind closed doors. There's so much preaching about how to view and treat provider. I've not heard so much preaching about how things "should be," since I attended church services. The women know their market, and they determine what they sell, and what they give away. End of story.

I've had clients become friends and friends become clients so I am familiar with how boundaries work/don't work and so forth.

I will admit, in my mind Vanica is almost like a separate entity from that other girl. LOL Vanica never has a bad day, she is never on her period, she is also happy to see everyone, she is just out of the shower, she never gets mad at you, etc. Now for all of this Vanica does come at a price - one of them being emotional distance.

Now over time I have shared a lot with some of my clients, but most of them do not know much about my real life. I just tend to ask questions, listen and focus on them so it never really comes up.

I think what makes "GFE" types so great is the fact that a gentleman can do the non-sex stuff with us as well. We kiss, cuddle, flirt, hold hands, feed you fruit, brush up against you, and at the end of the night it culminates into a wild and passionate experience instead of just a kiss at the door. And finally, we don't stalk you or curse you out if you never call us again. Well, most of us don't. LOL

I will say this usually it takes an extraordinary experience for me to look no longer look at a gentleman as a client.

Kisses,
Vanica Love

Ha, good post. Glad to hear some guys out there are getting some extra brushing up and hand holding out of the deal, but that's not usually how it works out. Think you are hosed once you buy into the mentality with a provider that she is actually, really, your GF, or even a real friend. Sorry, I've met a few, can't name one who I send birthday regards to who returns the favor when mine rolls around. No matter how good, funny, sweet or beautiful she is. Not whining, just saying, I've fell into the sentimentality thing before, and it was a mistake every time. This is mostly about the cash, sorry to say, just wish I had more of it to spread around.

The whole GFE thing is dangerous for guys.  We all walk a line and want the intimacy and friend part, but the more we get, the harder it is to remember that it is fantasy.  I think ladies need to set clear boundaries and stick with them.  Remind us when we are forgetting that it's fantasy, and by no means should you ever let us start getting real GF treatment!

I started hobbying pretty hot and heavy right out of college in the later part of the 1970s, and while GFE is much more prevelent now (Thank you TER.) there was plenty of it back then too.

I was just in my twenties so I had some very close encounters with relationships with providers.  Thank goodness they had the good sense to keep me at some arm's length or there's no telling what direction my life would have gone off in.

This was pre-AIDS too, so there was a lot of unprotected FS sex going on.  That's one way for emotions to run wild.

There may be something to the theory that the prevelence of GFE is stirring up people to hook up more than before, but it's not new, by any means.

I think forums like this one help keep people's perspective on the whole matter.

I see all the time ladies posting on boards wishing some guy a happy birthday. I too have sent birthday wishes.

Those who do not receive a "Happy Birthday" from me are those of whom I do not know the date of their birthdays.

So I wouldn't take that too personal.

Kisses,
Vanica

For one thing, I absolutely detest this pervasive concept among men here of "some young beauty who wouldn't normally give us the time of day." Maybe that applies to you, but it damned sure doesn't apply to me.

You know, when you accept a limitation, you own it and make it part of yourself. Then, even if the limitation has no basis in reality, it becomes real.

You wanna know why some guys are so resentful? It's because they drink down this sort of KoolAid about their utter worthlessness.

Get over it! If you absolutely ARE worthless -- well, fine. Fix it. Make yourself worth something. Otherwise straighten up.

I reject such artificial limitations. I hobby not because I *must* but because it is the wisest choice in my case for dealing with women who have a serious sense of discretion and as part of their professional ethics won't cause me problems.

So speak for yourself on that front.

Second, I will freely admit that I have feelings for some escorts. Some of them I miss quite a bit between sessions. Some of them I admire a great deal -- that is, spiritual love sans possession.

BUT -- it is absolutely NOT because of the so-called "GFE." To put it indelicately, no woman could ever fuck me enough to induce such emotions. The physical realm would simply be insufficient to do so.

Rather, this is because of my natural emotional reaction to their specific virtues. To withhold that reaction would be injustice. Those emotions would exist *even if we had never touched.*

So this is NOT to be confused in any way with "bonding" or physiological love. I frankly do not bond in that sense easily; and tend to spread out appointments far enough apart that even were that an issue, it couldn't occur.

Furthermore, I have other important priorities in my life and therefore simply will not allow it; plus I have no serious tendencies toward possessiveness within the hobby context.

Personally, I see no issue with this sort of thing whatsoever so long as nobody gets stalked, hurt or otherwise inconvenienced. Besides, I tend to deal predominantly with escorts who are specifically skilled in dealing with such things and for whom it is part of their normal business model.

Remember a week or so back, when somebody wondered what everybody's fantasy provider would be? And I pointed out how strange a question that was? Why not just ask who your fantasy fuck would be? And you agreed with me. Ahhh, where did those happier times go.

My comment about girls that wouldn't look at us twice was obviously not directed at the kind of men who know the difference between simply  paying to fuck a girl and developing feelings for the girl you pay to fuck.

I can see how you didn't catch that. I should've worded it differently. I can also see how you wouldn't remember whose post you were agreeing with last week. For the record, my ego is almost as big as my dick. I agree that any guy can get any girl under the right circumstances.

-- Modified on 7/12/2010 6:40:41 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin

Any time you're messing around with the limbic system, you're playing with deeply irrational places in the human psyche...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system

What a shock, guys are just as likely to be "irrational" as women are. Whoocoodanode?

There's a difference between what you describe (deep and caring friendships) with someone who is just delusional. There are some guys who take GFE to an extreme. And we're not talking about acronyms associated with GFE (BBBJ, DATY), but the psychological. They are willing to give their right hand and several mortgage payments because they think the GFE is real. And for the record, I don't think you John would *need* to pay for any of it. Shoot, you make my panties wet just thinking about having an intellectual conversation with you. Yea John, we're not talking about guys like you.

They don't have much of a higher level cortex like we're suppose to have. My uncle had a beautiful Appaloosa stallion that he left unattended with his halter on and a short rope, while lounging around a shallow stream. The horse stepped in the stream, took a drink, and while doing so stepped on the end of the rope. The horse drowned himself, because he was too panicked to figure out how to free himself. Anything we do to over-ride our higher level cortex (drugs, alcohol, etc.) can leave us vulnerable to similar, but perhaps not as drastic, fates.

So men are the perps that can't maintain perspective? You're right and you're wrong. Some men pay and expect there to be some magical thing to transform them and to make the GFE to fall in love or some other sick shit, but most of us don't. And, I fucked my share of "hot" civilians, so take that off your list. Many of us do; its not that hard. It's also my opinion that the hottest among providers doesn't make them the best at this. In fact, the real "pretty woman" types seem to come to the scene with more attitude than I care for. You see, I usually go with the flow and if she's a real pro, her livelihood depends on my return or at the very least, my kind words that tells others she's in business. Oh, and being over 40 and seeing women for more than a few years, kissing and cuddling is pretty normal, especially if there is a woman you see more than a couple of times. The GFE phenom is just a label. Women who make this their business and are not just hustling to get out debt or pay for their nasty drug habits, do this, but know how to play it up for great fantasy and the best memories.

There can be for a bunch of sappy, whiney, estrogen soaked manginas who believe all things that women do are real.  This is NSA sex, and should become nothing more.  And the protection you see for certain ladies is the WK thing you don't want to delve in to.
Unfortunately BOTH sides get caught up in this "feelings" mess.  It is not just the guys in this biz.  Then you start hearing the "bounaries" crap. People have made this so damn complicated.
I see no downside to a lady putting on the illusion that she is totally in love with you for the time paid for.  Tha't what it is, time paid for.  I see no problem with a mutual pleasure session.  I have had some sessions that went way beyond, "I forgot it was a service".  It was actual lovemaking, and the degree of effort put out by those ladies was un real.  Exactly what it was, unreal, made up, an illusion.
Some people just need to have their brains readjusted.  Not a damn thing wrong with a damn good GFE.  There are just too many guys that want to buy into the idea that she MUST have feelings for me to do that.  No they don't!  They may just happen enjoy NSA sex as much as you do.  Difference is, they manage to remember it's NSA!

No, I am not speaking of bending spoons with your mind (though that would be cool if it were real!).

Rather, I am talking about the fact that, even if not absolutely, in large measure our emotional reactions reflect our ideas and values.

As a thought experiment, consider the fact I enjoy playing with weaponry of all sorts. I see a gun -- and I look at and admire its craftsmanship -- the fine machining, the painstaking detail, the incredible engineering and metalurgical feats involved, etc.

I can take that exact same objective object to a meeting of Handgun Control, Inc. -- and how would they react to the gun? Fear? Loathing? As an object of evil?

So our emotional reactions often reflect our ideas and values.

Thus, our ideas and values can exercise control over our emotions.

Granted -- not always, and not for all people. But, in general, it works for me.

They don't care about the NSA, they count his cash and tell him shit so he drools and comes back week to week. The call him Tim; short for ATM.

It has to do with intimacy
We make a difference in your life
A huge one
There is no better feeling
We all know it
Once you feel it...you want more
If you can't see her again in person, you will relive it
I also tend to think that he plays with this Knight role. Not White Knight...but he is providing for her. He is her provider.
Many of us are alone with our needs. We have desires and needs that just are not being met.
When they do get met...we are over the top. reborn. How can you deny how good it feels. Once you have it, you never want to go without.
And you know what...we are so lovable and vulnerable at the same time. It has nothing to do with the HOT body and everything to do with what is lacking in our own lives.

..."I agree that any guy can get any girl under the right circumstances."...

Not me...not even for money...using absolutes creates this type of reply. For instance...a huge, foul smelling, arrogant asshole with a huge dick wanting to screw my brains out for the entire hour could have $10,000  and I would not touch him with your dick. There goes your "any" inclusion.