By now you know how much I love to stir up debate on this board, and I apologize in advance if it seems like I’m “preaching”. Previous threads have shown some hobbyist’s hostility towards providers. I know that this is not the view of the majority of hobbyists on this board, but the minority who feel this way never miss a chance to be heard. I know this is an open invitation to the “haters” but I hope it will also be a forum for constructive debate.

For the record I am strictly a “carpet ho”…I’ve NEVER been on the streets. I love this level of the business because there IS a “measure” of respect. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE this business. I have been LUCKY because I have met some AWESOME gentlemen, most of who are not just “regulars” but who have also become “friends”.  When I see people “dissing” providers on this board it makes me mad. Yes, I believe that the majority of street girls are drug addicts or have major alcohol issues…hey you’d have to be stoned to stand on a street corner and solicit clients. But most of the women on the Internet are educated (some have advanced degree’s), drug free and are worthy of respect.

I have been in this business for two years (6 months “massage w/release & 18 months in FS). When I “hung up my shingle” I was very clear that I was changing my life and my status in society forever. I was open and honest with my family and friends about my new profession. Most were surprised by my choice but did not condemn me…though I did lose a few friends who could not accept my professional choice. I understood that I was committing illegal acts and was now in the netherworld of society…I was a criminal. I could give it away for FREE and still be accepted by society, but the second I accepted payment for an act as natural as breathing I became “A Bad Person” (a “chippi”, a “harlot … and worse).

In my personal life away from the hobby I am a “tomboy”. I wear jeans, a t-shirt, tennis shoes, no make-up and I throw my hair in a ponytail and I’m set. About a year ago I worked with a wonderful provider in the S.F. area (Who is still a very good friend of mine) who was the complete opposite of me. When we went out in public she would “poof” her hair up (big hair), wear way too much make-up and jewelry, wear the tightest clothes she could find and the highest heels she could walk in. When we would go to the mall or a restaurant people looked down on her. Clerks would help us last and waiters would stick us in a corner by the kitchen. We were second-class citizens. It was not a “black thing” because when I went places with my other black female friends who did not dress this way we’d get better treatment. Why didn’t I say anything? She was happy with the way she dressed, who was I to open my mouth and make her feel bad? Alone I am not subject to such bad treatment, I go out of my way to look like everyone else. My profession stays in the bedroom, I don’t wear it 24/7 if a provider goes out into society dressed that way; perhaps she is bringing this bad treatment “on herself”.

Before I got in this business I was “marriage material”…evidence of which is the 9 times I have been proposed marriage to (11 if you count the guy who asked me 3 times). Hey, I’m adorable, what can I say? lol :0) Now, I don’t EVER expect to be proposed to once the guy learns of my “past”. That’s a lot to ask a guy to accept. I’ve been lucky, I had/have “regulars”, so I never had to do “assembly line” service with hundreds of men. But that doesn’t matter, even if had only been with one man for money I’m still a “HO”. Again, I knew this when I got into the business…I knew that my life and the way that people (men & women) would view me would change forever.

I think what has really made my new place in society clear to me is my lover. He is a professional. Before I got into this business he could have taken me home to meet his mom. I am not as educated as he is, but I wasn’t a “criminal’ either. I wasn’t a “ho”. I was just a girl. He never looks down on me or judges me and I’d “Kick him to the curb” if he did. But my profession stops us from being able to have a future together. No one wants to marry a former “prostitute”. I’m happy with the way things are, but even I know my relationship with him will eventually have to end. As a provider this business changes you, your place in society, your life…whether we want to admit it or not.

My sister doesn’t believe I am a provider. She’s seen my website and heard my stories, but she still refuses to believe it. Her belief is that I have no reason to be a “Ho”. She say: “You have tons of work skills and marketable talents, you don’t do any drugs at all, you’re not an alcoholic, you don’t drink alcohol at all, you weren’t even promiscuous before this…so ‘WHY” would you get into this business”? I said: “The Money”. “ Do you make $300 an hour?” Oh don’t get your panties all in a bunch…if the money we made in this business wasn’t worth the risk then we’d all quit and become secretaries.

But it’s not just about the money. This business has been a GOD SEND to me. THIS business has helped me start two other small LEGITIMATE businesses. The skills I have developed in this business (ability to establish instant rapport which is good for sales, Placing Ads [and Commissioning and/or creating a website] which are marketing skills, etc.) can be used in any business or industry. I just don’t see how ANYONE can look at Internet providers and assume we are doing this because “We can’t do anything else”. Any “ho” on a street corner can open her legs and make a dime…it takes someone special to do what we do as well as we do it. (I love those run on sentences)

“Haters” attack us because we are women…we are vulnerable…we cant call the police or take legal action against them… or ANYONE.   I bet you “haters”(you cowards) wish you knew where we lived…then you’d show us huh? For the “Haters” out there who want to condemn me and the ladies like me for our professional choice, I don’t see you “dissing” the gentlemen on this board. Sure you can judge me for my professional choice, but why don’t we judge the men who visit us? I personally don’t think there is a need to judge the gentlemen who visit us, but the provider always gets the brunt of the criticism.

Hobbyist’s and Provider’s…what do you think?

Hi all,
I agree with some of the things you said, but not all of us share with everyone what we do for a living.
Some of us do this part-time, are only going to do it for a short while, and tell only one or two trusted friends, and certainly not family.  
And I don't think that you can generalize all guys as never considering marrying someone who was a provider.  More and more men (and women) are open-minded about such things, and no one has a spotless past.  And this doesn't mean you can't ever meet the Mother-in-Law.  Just don't bring that up!  
Being a provider, for some of us, isn't our whole life.  It is only a part of our life.  
It does not define me.  I am what I make of myself.
Melinda

Providers:

1. Does your family (friends) know what you do? If not, why not?

2. Do you do this exclusively or do you work as well?

3. What got you in the business?

4. Has this business changed you? Do you think people can tell what you do for a living by the way you look, or do you look like everyone else.

5. If others found out what you do for a living (co-workers, family, friends...) do you think they'd treat you differently.

6. Do you consider what we do "crimminal"???? have you been arrested (or know someone who has been arrested) and didnt that "ruin" her life or was it just "no big deal"?

Hobbyist's:

1. Would you marry a former escort?

While certainly "provider" status confers a certain stigma in our society (an maybe in all societies at all times... I can't think of a culture that especially elevated providers generally, though there are isolated cases in the Classical world of courtesans being socially influential) I daresay it doesn't preclude a client from ever developing a serious relationship with a woman he met as a provider. I would think that in 99+% of cases, he would take great precautions to conceal her profession (past or current) from his fellows, so in this sense he would not "take her home to mother"... at least not as an escort. Many men would likely enjoy the chance to "rescue" such a lady, although she might not appreciate it... or maybe she would; the "pretty woman" story underscores a popular idea in our culture, the rescue of the "whore" and transformation of her into a "lady".

As a young man living abroad, I developed a serious relationship with a provider (a gogo girl in Bangkok, no less)... I moved her in with me for about a year. Now, we went out in public to eateries, dancing, etc. but I never took her to things like embassy parties or business or society functions... this was less a function of her "job" than of her "class"... though very beautiful, elegant, and well mannered here was a girl with highlighted hair, rather dark complection, a couple of visible tatoos: screamingly visible in conservative Thai society. If she had come with me to the US though I would have had no problem introducing her to Mom, who in those days was accustomed to seeing me with rather daring women. Would I have ever mentioned her job to her... no, and in fact when talking of her I referred to her simply as a dancer (to my mother's ear, this means ballet or modern dance). I should stress though that I took care of her during this period and so I wasn't with an "active" provider... that may have changed things considerably; further, I arranged for her to attend university there (her intended goal anyway) so I satisfied my "savior" fantasy, I suppose...however she went back to her club a few months after I left and it didn't bother me.

I will say this: I suspect the "casual client" would be far more amenable to "bringing home" a provider than a "hobbyist" would; the casual fellow is generally seeking companionship, wheras the hobbyist seeks to tag and catalog and so would be much less likely to respect a provider in any other capacity.

Regarding the idea of providers being perceived as "bad people", I don't think that is the case, especially in the case of the "escort". Literature and film have always had a soft spot for them, from Dumas' Camellia to "Pretty Woman"... as I say, they are percieved as in need of rescue, but not "bad". Talk about a victimless crime! Perhaps it is unfair to characterize providers as doing this only for the money (as they say, it is not easy money but it is fast) but I admit I suspect very few do it for the love of it or the spiritual fulfillment.

For me at least, and I think this is a common position: I think everyone is free to create their own moral universe to live in (provided theydon't interfere with others' lives) and by all means it is "fine" to me if a woman wants to be a provider... further, I can be friends or even lovers with such a woman, and I can respect her choices. Nevertheless, it would horrify me if my sister, or daughter, or mother did it. So, there is a double standard there, I know, but there it is. I wonder if providers would feel similarly dismayed if, say, a daughter decided to follow in mom's footsteps?

O.

In evaluating a decision to marry I would look at the whole picture. So yes, I would marry a former escort if she satisfied my other criteria. It would be ridiculous to put so much weight on a profession of any kind... it is just that, a profession.

Besides, I would be more worried about marrying someone with an exceedingly dull occupation. Like accounting.

An in terms of danger to society, telemarketers are a far worse blight on the landscape than any provider.

But would a former escort marry a client, I wonder? He's been around too, and what makes her think he will quit his hobby for her? Plenty of married hobbyists, I'm sure... and she knows this better than anyone.

O.

Great Questions so heres my answers:

1. Does your family (friends) know what you do? If not, why not?
Only two of my friends know, 1, is my roommate that found out by accident, the other is my best friend in Phx and she’s very open minded and thinks its cool. I told my brother in TX and he says more power to you. Why wouldn't I tell any of my other friends?  I don't like anyone knowing anything about me unless I fully trust them. Most of my other friends are Providers and they do what I do. We get advice from each other.

2. Do you do this exclusively or do you work as well?
Yes I do now, I didn't in the beginning. I had 3 other businesses but I make more doing this so I stopped one of them.

3. What got you in the business?
I was working for a Dot Com company and they laid off 70% of the company and I was one of them.  I ran across a providers yahoo profile and IM-ed her and told me about the business

4. Has this business changed you? Do you think people can tell what you do for a living by the way you look, or do you look like everyone else?
NO this business hasn't changed me and I dress the same, I have always dressed up very nice and stylish.  Except at times I wear jeans and no Client has seen me in jeans and one client has ever seen me in nice dress slacks and thats because I went to his home in a residental neighborhood and he asked me to be discreet.

5. If others found out what you do for a living (co-workers, family, friends...) do you think they'd treat you differently.
Only one family member would stop talking to me is my father and no big deal anyways we haven't talked in 3 yrs.  As for my brothers (I have 6 of them)and sister, they love me no matter what and don't care what I do as long as I'm happy. A gentleman that I was dating in San Diego just stopped dating me because he found out, before I could tell him, what I did for a living but he has a very high powerful job and is in the media at times so I can understand and I knew it wouldn't last because of my choice of work.  That’s the only time I didn't like my choice of work.  I will no longer be seeing one of the most intelligent sexy, honest man I have ever been with.  As you see I didn't give up my career choice to be with him nor did he ask me too. Such is life and the discussions we make. I do enjoy what I'm doing and have met some of the most wonderful, kind and intelligent men. Nothing turns me on more then stimulating conversation with a nice man.  If you can't turn on my mind how you do expect my body?

6. Do you consider what we do "criminal"???? Have you been arrested (or know someone who has been arrested) and didn’t that "ruin" her life or was it just "no big deal"?
NO I don't think of myself as a criminal at all. I offer a service to gentleman that wants to pay for it. IF he doesn't pay me he will someone else.  We aren't hurting anyone.  And No I have never in my life been arrested. I know of only one lady that was arrested and it was her fault for not knowing the ropes and not listening to some advice that was giving her.

And for Mr.Ozymandias who said:” it would horrify me if my sister, or daughter, or mother did it. So, there is a double standard there, I know, but there it is. I wonder if providers would feel similarly dismayed if, say, a daughter decided to follow in mom's footsteps."
It wouldn't horrify me if my mom or sister or daughter did this. I'm the last person in this world that would ever judge anyone. IF I do then that gives you the right to judge me doesn't it?
As far as the double standard, there are more men in this hobby that have one it would amaze you.  This is the year 2002 and many more people are much more open minded now then they were 10 years ago but there are still those out there with that double standard, just look at the White House.

Enough said,

Red



-- Modified on 3/13/2002 4:01:11 PM

Providers:
1. Does your family (friends) know what you do? If not, why not?
  Only a friend who used to be a provider herself knows, plus a few guy friends who I trust--who think it's kind of cool.  I come from a rather religious background, so telling most friends and family would be like trying to explain to my Jewish relatives that I've become a Skinhead.  

2. Do you do this exclusively or do you work as well?
  Just last month, I was working PT in the sales dept. of a consulting company, but as I am a fulltime student (1.5 years left until my bachelors), it became too much and this is where I make my money. Plus, it's a whole lot more intersting.

3. What got you in the business?
  My natural nympho-tendencies combined with my desire to go back to school, replace my 12-year-old car and live on my own, all without going into debt.  I am planning to do this for a year, maybe more, depending on how fast I can save up money.  But I continually meet the nicest, most interesting people in this business and I would not be surprised if one of them turned into someone special.

4. No, this business hasn't changed me, except to make me less judgemental on looks.  Before being a provider, I was very picky about guys.  They had to be so tall, very handsome, etc.  But this business has taught me that a good body is only a small part of being a great lover.  That consideration, tenderness and enthusiasm (e.g. passion) covers a multitude of physical imperfections.  And I actually feel like I look and dress better since starting this job, because I am thinking about it more and I'm trying to be as stylish and classy as possible (I live in the DC area).

5. If others found out what you do for a living (co-workers, family, friends...) do you think they'd treat you differently.  Yes, in that they would be so worried about me that they couldn't talk to me about anything else.  That would be the people who care about me.  As for just acquaintences, I don't know what they would think or how they'd treat me, but that would be their choice, now, wouldn't it?

6. Do you consider what we do "crimminal"???
No, I don't consider it criminal.  What I think is criminal is the number of US traffic fatalities every year (40,000!!!) and the fact that no one seems to care and it's never in the news.  No, I've never been arrested, nor had my friend ever been.  I've thought about what it might be like, and while very scary, it would not ruin my life.

Red said:

6. Do you consider what we do "criminal"????....

Red said:

"NO I don't think of myself as a criminal at all. I offer a service to gentleman that wants to pay for it. IF he doesn't pay me he wills someone else.  We aren't hurting anyone.  And No I have never in my life been arrested. And I know of only one lady that was arrested and it was her fault for not knowing the ropes and listening to some advice that was giving her."
___

If any of you girls think that what you are doing is NOT criminal, think again. Unfortunalty, IT IS ILLEGAL. Don't fool yourself Red. You and everyone women in this business run a 50-50 chance you will at sometime be arrested. I am not slapping you on the wrist, just don't want you to live in a dream world.

Wow.... Wow.

SweetSable you are wrong on one account. Most men could give a knat's ass over whether you were a "hooka" in the past or not. Believe me, this is a pretty light weight "skeleton" in one's closet. You might not score a prep school high and mighty born with a silver spoon cat... But is this really someone you want anyway?

Talk to any musician who's worked the road. Talk to any recovering drug addict or alcoholic. Talk to most people in the "dirty business" of straight movies and TV. Talk to a fashion model. Talk to a secratary, female cop or grocery drug cashier. Talk to a bank teller or title rep. Honey, we all have nasty s**t in there. Those that don't... Boring muthaf**kers, you know?

Do not think of yourself as damaged goods. Quite the opposite. You have experience and understanding of human sexuality that most people only dream of. And you know what? Most of us do dream of it out here. So. You are not damaged goods, you are a fulfiller of dreams. Now and later.

The same "haters" that you have referenced are the same dirtbags that sexually harass women in the work place in every walk of life. F**king for money, by itself, does not make you good or evil. What determines that is how you treat people. Hurting people knowingly or carelessly, that is evil.

Take care of yourself first. The rest will take care if itself.

Would I expect her to "work?" hell no.

Would I freak out if she did? hell no.

Would I hurt her with her past? probably. Love does not extinguish all the rage and mean behaviors than human beings possess. Would I make "amends" Hell yes.

Would I care if someone found out? Hell no. My self confidence and self inmage does not come from outside. It's an inside job.

Would I defend her honor? To the death. Love is.

And probably out of my realm of comprehension. Men are brainwashed, by their mother, by the media, by other women, and it's reinforced by their equally brainwashed cronies, that prostitutes are impure, that they're sub human, that they're unclean. The whole thing is hypocritical and a contradiction. You give a man pleasure, and what does he do to thank you for it..he calls you a ho! Go figure.

Guys never figure out that women like sex too, they frequently like their clients, they like men as men like women.

I happen to like providers for two reasons. First, they're generally independent people and I respect. Second, I happen to like women, maybe a little too much at times, but I find beauty in all of them.

As for the guys who don't understand...who cares? Who needs them anyway?

But probably only in in the situation stated, namely a "former escort."  I'd have a really tough time being involved with somebody who I knew was exposing herself to all sorts of risks on a daily basis.  And, in truth, I tend to like exclusivity in relationships.  I don't engage in this hobby when I'm in a serious dating situation, and would hope that whoever I'm involved with isn't seeing other people either.  (Whether it's for pay or not is NOT the big deal.)  Just my own ethic, which you can agree or disagree with, and which might change if I were married for years.

I would much prefer to be married to somebody who was an "open book" about such things, than to somebody whose past was a mystery to me.  We all have secrets.  Some of them are really ugly, some of them are stupid things we've done, some of them are things that seemed good at the time and don't seem so good right now.  Some of them are just difficult to talk about.

Jim Cramer, a stock market commentator whose radio show I listen to occasionally, likes to advise people that when considering a stock in their portfolio, they have to think not about where it's been, but rather about where it's going.  Same true with people.  I've got ugly and embarrassing stuff in my past.  I'd rather be judged as to who I am today and who I can be in the future, and I judge others the same way.

I can state categorically that if I were to run into my old ATF in a social situation [unlikely] and if I were to find out that she is single [which I don't believe to be the case] I'd be after her in a second.  She was truly one of the most interesting and inspiring people I've met.  THAT is ALL that matters.

Sweetie I didn't say it was legal, and I know its ILLEGAL. I just said I don't feel like a criminal. Sorry if you misunderstood that. I never forget that LE is right around the corner and I'm nevrous as hell everytime I see a new client or talk to one on the phone or get an email.  The second I stop being nervous I better get my ass out of this business.

RED

-- Modified on 3/13/2002 5:20:23 PM

What I feel and did not have the words to say, you expressed in three short paragraphs (the first one was the set up).

and was met with a stony silence.  Some of the TER community even wrote me private e-mails advising me that "it was none of my damned business," or words to that effect.  Do I detect a double-standard?  Glad you're getting some positive feedback.  A remarkable post, SS!    

-- Modified on 3/12/2002 5:41:45 PM

I am a part time dominatrix and occasional fbsm girl. Although I don't have sex with clients, I certainly engage is sex-related activities.

1. My family and friends know and think it's cool and exotic. I don't go into details about my work though. My children do not know.

2. I am also a mom to two little girls and a nursing student working toward my R.N. After I am a nurse I will probably stop seeing clients or at least only see regulars.

3. I was a dancer for six years and met people over the years who were into weird things: foot fetishes, being spit on, kicked and I thought it was cool and interesting. So I became a domme.

4. I look very normal IRL. When I was younger and a dancer that's when I teetered around during the day in my platform shoes and hot pants. Nowadays, it's jeans and t-shirts, much more of a mom now.

5. I don't consider what I do criminal at all. For clients, I consider it a way to help them, and for me, I consider it a fun and entertaining job as well as a source of income.

You know, in 38 states, oral sex is illegal.  When was the last time you were busted.  In 42 states, sodomy is illegal.. don't see many getting arrested for that (to go into prison to get sodomized, of all things)

And, of course, in all 50 states, driving over the stated speed limit and not wearing a seat belt are illegal.  But in all my driving nationwide, people still speed, and lots of people don't wear safety belts.

I'd challenge you to find almost anyone who, at some level is not "a criminal".  Ever throw a pop-can or food out of your car instead of in a trash can?  (although I haven't done this, very common, especially in rural country) that's a federal crime on an interstate.  Not worn a seatbelt?  Had a belt before you were 21?  Pirated Software?  ;0

In reality, prosecution for "crimes" happens far less then occurances, because by definition, almost 99% of people are in one way or another, a criminal.

I dunno Sable... From my end, I've been surprised how many people I've met who DO respect hookers. But one thing to remember is that never before in history have those in the sex industry been SO downgraded by society.  Shucks, when I was a little girl "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" with Dolly Parton was my favvvvvvorite movie. (My mom let me watch *lots* of things... I was mature for my age, though, and horny from birth!)  

It's my hope that the advent of the Internet into this 'biz will help things start to slowwwwwwwwwwly change for the better. Ok it may be an impossible dream, but I'm allowed, aren't I?  Because now for the first time in the history of America, women are out there on the web advertising themselves and their services... and they are lovely, classy, educated, and all these things that everyone thinks a "hooker" cannot possibly be.  They're supposed to be crackheads, ugly, with no skills... not independant strong women who actually *gasp* love sex!!!!!!

Regardless though, of whether or not the mainstream attitudes ever change... I am personally well aware that there are LOTS of people who do not follow the mainstream way of thinking.  I have been involved in "alternate sexuality lifestyles" for the past five years... and there's no going back for me now.  Any poor guy who steps into my life and becomes my personal Prince Charming in the future is going to have to accept me as I am, lock, stock and barrel. Poor guy.... having to accept a woman who LOVES sex, is positively greedy for it, loves girls and will BRING him women, and is... GOOD at it, too!    I feel sorry for him already! LOL!

The laws and mores of society which cause our profession to be downgraded are so out of date and silly at this point in time, as to become laughable. Oral sex is still considered by law to be an "unnatural act" in many states (including mine!).  Not to mention sodomy... adultery... homosexuality...etc, etc... before we even GET to the prostitution laws.  I have never had any desire to be a breaker of ANY law... but as Heinlein says, the 11th commandment involves not subjecting yourself to SILLY laws... and making sure you don't get caught.  I do not need ANY judge, jury, or police officer to tell *me* what I can do with my body, and the fact that they still try is so BEYOND ASININE that I can't even comprehend it.  

Don't even get me started on how the "feminists" out there are so hypocritical when they say that women should have freedom of CHOICE for abortion, control of their bodies... but NOT be allowed to be in the sex industry. GRRRRRRRR. Hypocrisy is one of my *biggest* pet peeves, and ANYONE who takes my choices away from me is NOT a feminist.

I guess the bottom line is that... anyone who would think I am "less than" because of the choices I have made, and the way *society* feels about them, is not someone whose opinion has value to me anyways.  Lord if I cared what ANYONE thought about me, or what I do, I'd have crawled into a hole to die looooooooong ago. I don't. The only opinion that matters to me is my own.

Hugs*
Nicole

I will say that I personally... and I don't think I'm a "rule" in any facet of my being... but I personally DO do this both for the money and the *enjoyment* of it.  I've never been good at sticking to something I didn't enjoy, no matter what it was... I suppose I'm a hedonist.  But regardless of how great the money is, if I didn't enjoy myself, I couldn't stick to it.  

As for raising a daughter who winds up becoming a provider? I plan to have children and cherish the idea of having a daughter... to raise as I was raised... strong, independant, and able to think for herself and discover for herself what is right for her, and those things that make her happy.  If my future daughter grew up and decided to take this course of life, my question for her would be... "Does this make you happy?"  If her answer is yes, whatever her choices are, I would be happy for her. I do fully expect any child I may have, will more than likely be every bit as horny and sexually precocious as I am! Then I'd sit her down and give her a looooooooong lecture on safety.

Hugs*
Nicole

By the strictest of definitions definitions 99% of the people reading or posting on this board are criminals.  Everyone knows what is legal & what isn't, so your point is exactly what?  I fail to see where you've made a contibution of any value to the discussion.  That of course is JMHO---which is perfectly legal for me to have.

I believe what Spy is saying to Red is don't feel you are not behaving in a criminal activity. If you aren't scared then you should be.  You may not feel like your doing something criminal until that badge is thrown in your face. It's the risk and keep that upfront in your thoughts at all times. And if it got your attention and your replied, then it must have had some importance to you to make a nasty comment.

The point I'm making is, in a society where the majority are amongst the crowd that could be considered "criminals" then what truly creates a criminal is the desire the prosecute; and not the crime in and of itself.

We have a desire to prosecute murder.  A desire to prosecute robbery; mugging; auto-theft; kidnapping; etc. and that desire to prosecute is very strong.  

We do not, in the strickest sense, have anywhere near that level of desire to prosecute actions which are lesser offenses.

The argument was that the individual does not "feel" like a criminal.  Just as most of us don't "feel" like a criminal if we forget to buckle up, or if we speed down the highway a bit.  We just don't "feel" like a murderer; so to speak.  

And that's because not all crime is on the same level.. from frivolous to petty to troublesome to brutal (and so on).  The intonation that was provided was that she didn't "feel" like a criminal; someone argued back "so what, you are" my point is - we all are.  But we don't "feel" like criminals, and for the most part, we probably shouldn't for the lesser legal impacts we have (have you ever felt hunted over jaywalking?)

There isn't anything wrong in -not- feeling like a criminal.  In other words, no one has any societal need or demands placed upon them to "feel" like a criminal unless they have some sort of serious psychosis that causes them to just beat themselves up - or if they commit a heinous crime.  

Even for the harshest of criminals, we believe in the concept of rehabilitation... and we instruct even hardened prisoners not to "feel" like a criminal but to rejoin society as an upright and reformed member.  So why should someone not convicted - and definitely not involved in any "heinous" or societally disruptive action be made to feel like something that the majority of the culture - while technically are - do not feel?

It's Pot-Kettle-Black.

I have no misconceptins of what I am.  But back to the question: Do I feel like a criminal?  NO...and my honest answer was NO I don't.  Not if I am or not.  IMHO



RED







-- Modified on 3/13/2002 5:54:39 PM

Perhaps clarification isn't necessary, but because where your post of 3/13 appears in the thread, I thought it best to take a minute to be sure there was no misunderstanding.  My previous reply in this thread was directed at what SPYVSSPY had posted, not anything you had said.  FWIW, I agree with you 100%.

Yep, I didn't mean a reply to you, my apologies if it appears as such.  Sometimes, they may need to consider slightly better organized threading BB software.

Hobbyist's:

1. Would you marry a former escort?

I would if we were exclusive and marriage is exclusive in my mind.  After making one mistake, I haven't run around (paying or not paying) and sex is sex.  I would hate to have her give up a profession that she enjoys for whatever reason, but how we are together and where that journey is going is more important than what either of us has done in the past.

Absolutely I would marry a former prostitute.  (I wonder if a former prostitute would marry ME!) I would like to say I could marry a _current_ prostitute, but I don't think I have that kind of fortitude.  

Most men are like most women.  They're not hotshots; they're ordinary or less-than-ordinary people.  The concept of not marrying a former prostitute needs to be relegated to the dustbin of history.  

-xyz