I'm reposting this because I agree with many of the things said, especially #1. I've never really stopped and thought just how much I have to take over on a date, and how much I just want someone to take charge every now and then- but it so rarely happens.

Comments on the below post?

Just fucking fuck me, already.
Date: 2008-02-03, 3:29PM PST

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/561877622.html

Dear Men of Craigslist,

Look, I know you men have it difficult. Women are just about impossible to understand, much less please. In a post-feminist society, you never know exactly what you should be doing. Women are bloody picky, I know we are. It can be scary, too, when women freak out about what appear to be benign issues. And men who do their best to be respectful, female-positive humans, I salute you, I do.

But please, please just fuck me already. Honestly, I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I like that you want to take things slow. I can totally get behind the idea of emotional connection, but dearjesusinheaven, FUCK ME. We've done dinner and drinks. We've gone dancing. We've cuddled and watched a movie. I'm wearing a low cut shirt and you've been staring at my breasts all night. Goodgodalmighty, get to it and fuck me.

When we get hot and heavy, please take charge. Please, please fuck me. Trust me, I'm not going to just lie still - I'll get involved. But don't make me force your hand into my panties. That makes me feel like a rapist. We've been kissing for a half hour and your hand keeps grazing my ass. That's nice, but it's time to move forward. Get on top of me. Don't make me get on top right out of the gate and start bobbing up and down on your cock like I'm practicing some crazy new aerobic yoga because YOU won't go down on me. Roll on top and start dry humping like a good boy should. Don't gently suck my nipples and then pull back when I moan with pleasure. You being coy is totally not what I want. It's not what WE want.

OK, I know it's scary. There are lots of women out there who make fucking really difficult. So, I have compiled some handy tips. Don't think of this as complaining, or as schadenfreude for the Andrea Dworkins of the world. Just some simple tips, for timid men who have forgotten what it means to fuck like men:

1. Taking charge is not bad. Oh, there will be some women who feel that you are pushy. If you are making out with a woman, and she starts to push back, ask nicely if things are moving too fast. If she says yes, say something like "I'm sorry - you just look so fucking delicious. I'll go slower." Otherwise, skillfully move forward. If you start kissing a woman, and she responds well, and before long, you're both on the floor with her skirt pushed up, and you on top of her, it's not the time to roll onto your back and start awkwardly stroking the top of her head. Seriously, grow a goddamn pair. YOU'RE the man. Act like one.

2. Ohmyfuckinggod, please learn to respect the clit. It's different for every woman, so ask what she likes. Do not, I repeat, do not just wiggle your fingers around her pussy like you're trying to tickle her. Do not drum your fingertips against her vulva like you are impatiently waiting at the Sears Tire Center for your receipt. Do not push the clit like it is a doorbell at some house that you need to get inside of. Start by using all four fingers with firm yet gentle pressure against the outside of her pussy. Do not charge in with a single finger and start jabbing at things. And if you really don't know what to do, ask her. Just ask. "How do you like it?". It's a simple question, and most women will answer straight out. If she's being all coy, ask "Do you like pressure? Is it sensitive?" The clitoris is a varied item, indeed. Treat each one as though you have never encountered one before. Forget everything that your last partner liked.

3. Most women like to be fucked, and fucked well. Yes, there are women out there who want to "make love" every time - sweet, gentle, rocking love with lots of eye contact and loving kisses. Those women are not the majority. The majority like to be pounded. The majority like to have their hair pulled. The majority like a good, solid jackhammering. When a woman is bucking wildly against you, it's not because she wants you to pull back and slowly swirl your cock around her vagina like you're mixing a cake batter up there. It's because she wants you to hold down her arms, or grab her hips, or push her legs above her head, and fuck her harder. Don't be too afraid of what this means as far as gender equality goes - I am a raging feminist bitch, but I still want to be penetrated like you are planning on fucking my throat from the inside out.

4. A little roughness is nice. Do not pretend that you had no idea that some women like their hair pulled. Do not act shocked if she wants you to spank her ("Really? Spanking? Won't it hurt?" - yes, it does. That's the fucking point). We know you've read Stuff and Maxim, and that's all those laddie mags talk about in their "How to Please Her" sections. Start with light, full handed smacks to the area of her ass that she sits on. Judge her response and continue on from there. You don't have to bend her over one knee and tell her she's a naughty girl and that Daddy's going to punish her; save that for the fifth date. Women are less delicate than you think, so don't worry about breaking her hip.

5. It's OK for you to make noise. Otherwise, we feel like we are fucking a ninja. Unless you actually are a ninja, and have sneaked into our rooms with vibrating nanuchaku and zippered black pajamas, please, please make some noise. If you're banging a woman, and she's crying out and saying your name and moaning, and you can't even manage a grunt, she's going to feel like an idiot. You don't have to make the sounds she is making, but do SOMETHING. You know how when you are watching porn, and the girl does something great to the guy and the guy kind of goes "Ah!", half grunt, half yell? That's HOT. Do that. Whisper our name (assuming you know it) gruffly. Groan against her neck when you're in missionary position. You don't have to grunt like a mountain gorilla, but if you are totally mute, she's going to get worried.

6. Most women like dirty talk, in addition to the grunting. If you'd like to get some dirty talk going, ask her if she likes the way you fuck her. If she responds well, continue with something like, "I love fucking you. God, you look so fucking hot." Is she still moaning in response? "Your tits are so beautiful." Does that work? If she doesn't respond well to the term "tits", you might have to stop there. If she keep moaning or responding, pass Go and collect $200. Try the following:

"Oh, god. Your pussy is SO tight."
"You're so wet - are you wet because you like the feel of my cock ramming you?"
"I think I'm going to come inside you. I'm going to fill up your little cunt." It doesn't matter that you're wearing a condom; we LOVE hearing this.

If all of those work, you can then progress to things like "sexy little bitch" and "dirty whore". Tread carefully, but please, tread. Do not tiptoe. Do not sit down. Charge.

6. You're not obligated to eat a woman out. In return, she's not obligated to choke on your dick. Don't skip one and expect the other. If you do eat a woman out, the only comment you should make about her pussy is how nice it is. The length of her labia minora, the color of her interior, her waxing job or full bush - you are not John Madden. No time for color commentary.

7. Do not bitch about condoms. Oh, we hate them. Trust us. They hurt us more than they hurt you. But we don't want to be preggers, and you don't want to catch anything, right? Don't whine about condom sex. Do not explain that you can't come with one on. LEARN to come with one on, or if not, help us figure out what to do with you once we're satisfied and it's time for you to let loose your load.

8. We really like it when you come. It's called a money shot for a reason. Watching semen shoot out of you is one of the most gratifying things EVER. However, do not assume that she wants you to jack it off onto her face. She might, but don't assume. Seeing and/or feeling you come is rewarding for us, so there's no need to deprive us of it, but please do consult us before unleashing. "I think I'm going to come - how do you like it?" is a fair question that shouldn't rob you of your testicles.

In recent memory, I've been fucked by a very aggressive, manly guy, and I've been... well, fucked is the wrong term here. I've been penetrated by a total and utter wuss. Who am I going to run back to when I'm ready for my fill? Manly McHardon, that's who.

----------------------------------------------------

[I]*New point of clarification - some people have brought up some really great issues in response to this post, so let me say this: I don't mean to imply that all women like to be treated like whores. I do mean to say that most women I know have told me that they like sex rougher than most men give it to them. Rough does NOT equal chains and bondage. And this applies to the bedroom only, and does not mean that she wants you to choose her dinner for her, or treat her like less of a person.

**Some women have said that they don't like it rough and what the hell am I thinking? Well, girls, you're in the minority. HOWEVER, all women need to remember that, in addition to be straight forward about your sexual desires, you need to be straight forward about your sexual limits. Don't be afraid to ask for more, but when something feels wrong, say so. Don't ever do something you don't want to do in silence and then blame the guy. Silence is dangerous.

WOW!  Honey you are poetry in motion. EOM

GT

Reminds me of a discussion on SHS (society for human sexuality) list happened a long time ago (the list doesn't exist anymore.) The conclusion was that it depends on many factors, both personal and cultural. It's hard to say what the majority prefers.

for the rest of your life.  I can't imagine why anybody would want to be careful.

Of course we should all be cautious. That's a given.  Doesn't seem like that post was directed solely to new clients though. Surely at some point (like while she's on top of you fucking you silly) it can be safe enough to assume she's legit?

-- Modified on 3/29/2008 3:53:33 PM

-- Modified on 3/29/2008 4:37:56 PM

Seems like you know what you like.  Maybe you would attract clients (assuming you are a female) if you didn't use an alias.  Might be nice to see how attractive you are or where you are located.

Why don't YOU make the first move if you're so horny?  What kind of post-feminist attitude is that?  Men like to be seduced too.

I think that's a very interesting perspective.  I feel that it depends on individual preferences and chemistry between two people. I find it difficult to move too quickly with someone I just met.

but there are infinite tastes and desires among both parties which is a large part of the reason why this hobby is so interesting.

I do understand where the author is coming from, and I am sympathetic to her point of view; but there are times when I prefer her to take my hand and thrust it down her pants or even to rip my clothes off.  I also like it when they thrust their hands down my pants.

It all depends on the chemestry of the situation.

Except for willfully violating the other's humanity; there is no right or wrong.

for different folks. Here in Atlanta there are a lot of teens (yes, teenagers, 18 - 19) working the business and I have to admit I've met a few, and none of the ones I met would go for anything like that.  The youngsters are very fragile and you have to treat them with the upmost finesse.  You can't just jump on em and fuck their brains out. You hae to ease it in (same with the tongue)!
GT

situation, & my comment is directed to that.

And in that context, no, you can't assume anything.     Women may not change their story much more often than men, but people believe them far more often, because they're far more likely to think Jezebel or Nurse Ratched is harmless.

And odd as it sounds on TER, mercy fucks aren't always one-way.  The CL OP could easily have issues we don't see.

IMHO

Do you really expect a shy first-time client to just throw you on the bed, pull your hair, and pound away on you like he owns you? You may like it, but be real. Many guys who hobby are probably doing so because they are too shy or uncomfortable to meet girls on their own or are looking for intimacy rather than porn-star sex. Basically the guys who have been so tentative with you are doing so because they are gentlemen and want to be loved. They are paying you for the service YOU provide, not to give you what YOU want. It sounds like you need a male providor for yourself!

My post is assuming you are a providor of course. Either way, I understand your point, and I think guys should take charge more often (I struggle with that myself), but I think it is because these guys actually respect women as I do and don't just assume they can treat you like a sex doll. Additionally I think your assumptions that this is what most women want is a little exaggerated. I am sure a lot of women want that, but the ones that don't will NOT be happy if we do. Perhaps you need to give a guy some sign that you are a naughty girl and need that type of sex. Maybe guys are getting the wrong idea. Just some thoughts.

It's always a mistake to project personal preferences onto the majority.  No matter how many other women the author talked to, it's still not an objective, representative sample.

Something that happened to me illustrated the need to be cautious.  A few years ago I posted how I dated a woman who loved having sex doggie style while I held her arms behind her back, and her head was pushed in the pillow.  A while later I dated another woman, and based on the pleasure this position gave woman #1, I thought I'd try the same position on woman #2.

Woman #2 freaked out.  Called me a bunch of names and got out of bed.  She was really pissed at me, even though this wasn't the first time we'd had sex.

Well, it didn't take long for several women on this board to post that I was lucky she didn't call the cops and accuse me of rape, how only an asshole would do something like that etc.  OK, fine.

But about 4 or 5 months ago on TER, a provider posted on this very board about how she just LOVED seeing this guy who took control, pushed her head in the pillow and held her arms behind her while he entered her from behind.  She went on and on and was telling us how more guys should be assertive like this guy was, what a pleasure it was to be with a knowledgeable lover  blah, blah, blah.

So what am I, or any other man, supposed to do in this situation?  Risk being called a rapist or show women what a man I am in bed?  This writer may like to be taken like she's the heroine in a grocery store novel, but men can't afford to act that way in this day and age.  You can thank lawyers and the sexual harassment industry, false accusations, Attorney Generals and DA's with political aspirations (rot in hell Spitzer), Duke Lacrosse (rot in hell Nifong), feminists, and the fact that NO TWO WOMEN ARE ALIKE!

Yeah, this sort of post makes a nice read, but in the hyper-sensitive world of 2008, you better keep the macho bullshit in your pants unless you know, and I mean really know, the person you're with.  Better to be thought of as a wimp than end up in jail or have your life ruined in one of many other ways.  

And if women don't like, respect, or get turned on by the feminized men they've created, they have nobody to blame but themselves.



-- Modified on 3/30/2008 4:35:41 PM

Too often the first encounter can be uncomfortable. So many men are unsure where the line is drawn. It is different especially if you have not seen to many ladies in this business in the past.  Doesn't have to be though...

-- Modified on 3/30/2008 2:36:54 PM

I believe you are right, and they surely do not want to over step, seeing a lady for the first time and being new to this world so to speak, it can be confusing. But you hit the nail right on the head they seem to wait for an invite to "get comfortable" and that if nothing else I see as being a Gentleman.

-- Modified on 3/30/2008 3:13:09 PM

seriously - NO ONE should do ANYTHING to another without being sure that it is wanted.  Why?  because of the fact that people change their mind... and not everyone likes the same thing... some women - EVEN IN THE HOBBY - like to be seduced (read wine and dine).... and some, like their bones to be jumped even before you get the door open.  and it can vary from time to time - with the same person!

my ex was one that in the beginning of our marriage... wanted the wining and dining... and as it progressed - she just wanted a good ole fashioned "pounding" on occasion.  Which was correct?  depended on when in our marriage you looked.... wow....

this is one of the most dangerous posts I have seen in a while, as it is INCREDIBLY NAIEVE.

-- Modified on 3/30/2008 4:27:19 PM

I think you nailed it pretty well there....personally I'm first and foremost a gentle soul who wants to be liked and to share some good, guilt-free hard sex with another human being, other than my wife of 25 years.

I do enjoy giving pleasure, it's almost a pre-requisite for receiving pleasure, but we as clients are paying for the service of receiving and not paying to give .... when we do give pleasure, it's because we enjoy it.

Having only been with a couple of working girls, I tend to pick up on the cues provided as to how I proceed, naughty begets naughty!

in this biz, as a provider, I am always the one making the first move. I don't think it's anti-feminist to want a man to take control in the bedroom sometimes.

I'm just reposting, but I did do so to get some feedback. I was actually wondering if that was part of it- that the men pay us so we can be the one to take charge, which is fine- I get that.

And hmm, yeah, maybe I am sending out the wrong signals. How do I let guys know I like it a little rough sometimes?

But, I don't think that one necessarily has to treat a lady like a "sex doll" to be a little rougher. Pulling hair and spanking ass can be done very sensually.

I don't think it's really something that you just rush into. I mean, you don't just haul off and yank a lady's hair out, you ease into it, especially if you don't know her. Pull her hair a little bit, if she arches her back and moans, do it a little harder and so forth. If you pull her hair and she says ow or something, then don't proceed.

And I did not "create" any sort of "feminized" man.

it all depends on who you are with and how it flows. Both parties can start a session and all. After the first visit my repeat Gents are more comfy with me and visa versa and it sets its own pace.

As I've been reading this whole thread, it stikes me - IMHO - that this is perhaps an example of that ever elusive line that seperates the difference between GFE and PSE . With A GFE I feel a part of the whole experience is more the "wine / dine / let's have good time sex". The "Just fucking fuck me, already" strikes me as more of a PSE; more a Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am experience. I also agree, however, once the parties involved have gotten to know each other better (if that's in the first meeting or the 5th) then EITHER party has the opportunity to express other sexual satisfying areas not yet explored they might like.

Okay, I guess the sex doll comment was exaggerated, but I was making a point. And I don't know what signals you can give, but I think you are going to have to guide a guy into it. I would love to spank and pull hair (something I have never done), but would never even consider doing it unless I KNEW it was okay with the lady I was with. I would almost need her to tell me to do it. I'm not much of a dominant male personality though. In fact, perhaps once you get a little intimate maybe make suggest through dirty talking. If you draw the guy in and tell him you want to be spanked, I doubt any guy is going to turn you down and perhaps it will open the door that you like to be treated with strong, aggressive moves.