I asked this question on another Board but would like to read your reponses.

I have seen four providers in the last month that let me have bbfs. Two of them let me BB anal. All of these ladies are fairly well reviewed on TER as well as ASPD.

That is why the multiple occurrences in such a short time span surprised me. One of the ladies works for a well known agency in town while the others three are indies.

Unfortunately for me, my little brain out ran my big brain at those moments and I was stupid ... but that's not really the gist of the question.

Is the Hobby changing?

I have been in the Hobby for quite a while and these were firsts for me. Are we moving to bbfs and bb anal as a standard?

I would apreciate your candor and would encourage you to write under an alias if that helps, but what say ye?

Is the Hobby changing?

While I've seen very infrequent mentions of someone getting carried away in the heat of things, it's never seemed like a very common thing at all.  I expect safety consciousness from my partners, and am always willing to do my part to promote safer behavior, whether that's condoms or screening or checkups or anything else.

I'd expect anyone doing this to earn her living to be well aware of the risks of barebacking and I'd also expect them to do their best to minimize the risks to their safety and health.

Apparently the responses you got on the Reviewers Board did not hit home.

You got 4 BBBF's and two BB anal service in the last month. Good for you. Please send me your list, so that I may avoid these women like the plaque.

WTF, just do not get it.

I saw a recent poll on a site where 40% of nearly 100 hobbyist respondents said they either have had BBFS, were offered BBFS or would say yes if offered BBFS.

Needless to say this was far from rare before HIV became common knowledge.  Although STD's were always a concern prior to HIV most concerns with casual or paid-for sex was pregnancy and not disease.  The pill came around and the incidence of STD's did rise according to many although some dispute the research and studies that make such claims.

Now if you examine the last 20 years, I think three things come into play.  HIV rightfully concerned most educated people and casual and paid-for sex was with protection like never before.  Then within this time frame the internet blossomed and the hobby crossed geographical and economic boundaries with amazing ease.  And more recently, I fear and hypothesize, the advances of medical treatment for HIV (as opposed to prevention) may have resulted in some taking on a more carefree attitude towards STD's and therfore they are more willng to accept risk.  This of course is both disturbing and foolish.  So I do think that BBFS is much more common then many here may admit.  

Needless to say all who are active in the hobby  need to play safe and to partake in regular testing.

for the worse if you keep BBing everyone everywhich way! You're making it more dangerous for yourself, other providers and us!

I'm sure that you, ALL your providers and ALL their clients & SOs have immaculate health (sarcasm, in case you're not perceptive enough to notice) but I for one will still not risk it.

Put a cover on, keep it on and for God's sake, be smart!

You need two tests actually...

One medical for STD's and the other....

AN IQ TEST!!!

I'm sorry bro, but a public admission of this?? This is precisely the reason the hobby is dangerous.

Thanks for your candid story, however if you don't have the intention to mention the names of these providers, you may as well be.......

AIMING THE GUN AT ME...!!! NICE WORK. I'll be sure to console your family.

I have to say "NO"

#1- I have been offered BBFS by at least 1/3 or more of the ladies I have seen since joining TER in 2000.
That has become less common since I have moved from SoCal to the PNW.

#2- It is not as though your sampling techniques are random.  You are selecting the ladies you see and there may be some correlation between your selection criteria and ladies being willing to accept the risks of BBFS and BBTP (tailpiping)

What is unfortunate for the rest of us is that TER will probably not allow you to post the names of the ladies with whom you have engaged in BB services.  I see this as a disservice to the rest of the community at large but do understand the implications.

Scenario:  BBFS or BBTP becomes a checkbox in the review form... ladies offering such services will see at first an immediate drop in business from those hobbyists not willing to take such risks (a vast majority of us)  but at the same time the client base of such women will shift to those guys seeking BB services AND these ladies' risk factors will increase manifold as the numbers of clients each sees having unprotected sex with multiple partners will increase as well.  It's not just HIV we are talking about here but other STDs including the more contageous HEP strains.

It's just not a scenario I like to think about, but perhaps one you and your BB seeking brethren should condsider.

ML out for the count

PS: Bravo to those willing to post in this thread without hiding behind an alias.

PPS: For those who enjoy BB*, as do I, get a GF, get tested, and stop hobbying, like me.  Stop being morons in denial.



-- Modified on 1/17/2007 9:27:23 AM

It is sad that someone can feel ok about something like this with the justification of, "my little brain...blah blah blah...".  

Is the hobby changing, you ask?  No, I don't think so. There will always be people on both sides of the bedroom door who do what is right, such as safe sex. However, the one thing about the hobby that will never change is women who are afraid to say no to someone affiliated in whatever way with a discussion board like TER (especially someone who has done this for 20 years) that makes or breaks them by what we might say about them and some are afraid of saying no because in doing so perhaps you are the one to get pissy about it and perhaps she can't afford to not be able to feed her kids this month, or whatever her motivation is.  So keep asking....keep bullying them, however nicely you ask...keep spreading disease potentially and feel good about yourself. Hey, it's ok....It was your little head that makes you do it.  Which brain is the little one for you again?

As I mentioned, I ask this on a different Board and as you have now pointed out it was the Reviewer's Board.

The question garnered all of five answers including your very negative, uninformative quip similar to the one now posted here.  

It was not to long ago when no one would even consider giving or receiving bbbj's and certainly not to CIM. Now it is almost a given that a provider will perform bbbj's not necessarily to CIM but if she gets that close she still ingesting some of your fluids.

I ask this question in sincerity even suggesting the use of aliases so that the responders could be very honest as to where the hobby is going in this regard. I think you might be surprised if everyone were really honest and weren't worried about being shot down by comments like yours or others.

Thanks for your opinion, it has been noted.

PS - I mainly hobby in Las Vegas. As for a list of the ladies, I don’t think so. Just ask the ladies you visit. I am sure they will disclose it to you if they choose to be honest. However, you might want to choose to be a little more tactful approach with them.

Reear "Not as Smart as you Think"

So much for the being ok with a candid response...lol

There are a lot more guys out there bbing than you think. These were my first experiences like this and in truth I don't really intend to pursue BBing in the Hobby. I did not ask any of the ladies to let me do it BB and I could expand on that but that would accomplish little here.

But let's all be "smart", there are many ladies out there doing it and if you choose to go and see providers you choose to take the risk of seeing one who does.

We all need the reality check!!!

I appreacited what you had to say below and it made me ask myself if I imposed myself on the  ladies I saw.

In only one case would I think the provider might BB for fear of losing business. But as I mentioned they are all well reviewed so I have to think that they have recurring cliente.

BTW - I did not seek them out with any intent of having a BB experience. Each was a surprise to me.

These rings on the tongue give you additional sensation, but harbors HIV STD or not?

NO PROTECTION, NO HOBBIENG!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care how "safe" you think the situation is. Did you ever go out without protection, hoping to score a piece. I had condoms in my glove box, in my wallet, in my night stand, in the bathroom. Even the kitchen. Most went unused,LOL, but they were there, ready willing and able. Now, as a hobbiest, you know when you are going to get some, and you think with the "little head"?? There is absolutely no excuse for this. I don't care if Jenna Jameson is the provider and she is offering the deal of the century. Our community plays in enough of a high risk environment already, with LE, and a political climate that could make hell freze over. The last thing that needs to happen, is for a couple of providers and hobbiests, to start this. I will say, flat out, that if "the times, they are a changin", then I will not. I would rather have a CBJ than no BJ at all.

C'mon, do yourself, the providers, and this community a HUGE favor, and get yourself tested.

Stay Safe and Happy Hobbieng,

B

you had said in your first post that for all the BB, that they "let you do it", but then later said you didn't ask.  Seems very unlikely that ALL of those providers just decided to offer it up without your indicating a preference for it in your reviews or posts or during the session, hence making it sound as though you had imposed yourself or requested it in some way.  Anyway, it's just not cool for everyone.  Apparently you don't have a SO so you don't care about bringing any bugs home but the rest of care that you might spread something, even though the chances of it all are low

This is absolutely true. Seems the number of bullies is on the rise. One had an excuse, "well, I figured because you are older..."
If they get no for an answer, they start talking about TER reviews.

but not anymore I was with my atf fot almost a year Everybody is right about being unsafe but I know of at least one fellow hobbyist that goes BB

You've already been told that BBFS is a terrible idea.  I don't know that you realize how terrible it is.  If thy little head offends the, it's better to circumsize it again.  That'll teach it a lesson.  Think with the big head on this one, will ya?  If the lady your with fails to be safe, be the fall back here.  

Besides the obvious dangers, if the hobby lets HIV get out of control, believe me, the public will notice lawmakers will get involved in quashing it.  

No, it isn't changing.  People can lapse, that doesn't mean anybody should do it.  If you realize how many men some providers have had sex with, even the little head might think twice.  Think of how bad you will feel if you get HIV, and how much worse you will feel if you passed it to somebody else--  including maybe your wife or GF.  

Those providers should think about all this too.  Shame on them.  Shame on you.

of hobbying, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've been "offered" BBFS. Granted, I'll use the hand with the greatest number of fingers, but even then, I'm always surprised someone experience could be at such odds as mine.

Are you guys single who are getting these offers, maybe that's it....

You are a complete IDIOT of the first order. PLEASE tell us ladies who you are so that we can BAN you. In my area, there is a provider who was known to offer BBFS for tips. She is now dying of AIDS. Her reviews are still up here though, for which I am grateful. The men who have reviewed her are all on my do not see list - whether they used a condom or not makes no difference to me.

Is the hobby changing? No it is not. Is it still full of idiots? Unfotunately, yes. It is small comfort to know that the stupid ones are a dying breed. Before they exit this hobby they still have ample opportunity to give the gifts that keep on giving with others, even when precautions are used.

Is that candid enough for you?

have a "death wish" and want to pass it on to you. I have NEVER heard of a provider getting so carried away with lust for a client that she forgets all protection because she wants to "feel" the real you. Yes, there are ladies that find themselves kissing(when they have reviews that do not offer that) or bbj but NEVER BBFS.Please name them so ladies such as myself can avoid their clients(screening,reviews and handles).I still want to believe this is some made up fantasy that clients tell each other. I pray that it is. You should go directly to a clinic and get tested for STDS and HIV. Tell us these ladies names so the rest of us can try to protect ourselves and those women who offer BBFS can be advertised to clients who want it.I hope you have good health insurance. This is so disgusting to me. I am working on trying not to judge others this year but to hell with it , when it comes to my life and other providers. Clients themselves should care about there health and the health of their SOs. I have seen a few new ads in SF that contain the term "No GFE" and find that almost every trend has a backlash. All the BBFS ladies and clients that partake stand up and tell us why you do this? Money, feels good or just don't care about about youself or the health of others?

I just finished working on a documentary about BBing in the gay community (I'm not gay).  It was nauseating to me to learn that BBing is growing in popularity for several reasons,  A) it shows you trust your partner, B) many with HIV either don't care about spreading it, or they're doing so intentionally because they're bitter about having it, C) HIV is so common in the gay community that there are HIV sex parties during which everything goes and all is uncovered.  Not sure how much this affects us, but it made me realize that you really have no idea what that person has been doing.

I'm pretty new to the hobby having just been divorced.  I have seen 6 providers and was offered BBFS by one when I couldn't pop with a cover after about 20 minutes.  I couldn't get outta there fast enough.  The thought of BBFS (and for me, even BBBJ) freaks me out.  I get tested now every two months...AND I DO EVERYTHING COVERED!  

I just returned from Bangkok where raincoat use is remarkably prevelent.  In a threesome, I couldn't even go from one to the other without changing the cover.  I'm surprised they even took a bath with me without a cover.  But I'm totally OK with it, as peace of mind is worth it.

Just my $0.02.  Probably worth less than that.

Hobby long enough and you'll find yourself in a situation where BBFS rears its head.  It's inevitable that it will happen at some point.

But is it becoming commonplace? I just don't that being the case at all. In my experiences, any presence of BB options continues to be a very rare situation, no different today than it was a few years ago.

if I did impose myself on them and if so how I would have done so. To be honest, I will have to think on it longer. I don't choose to go into the detail of how it happened but one plugged it in herself and started riding, two oiled up and said let's go and the fouth as I said in an early post I will think more about due to the reasons you mentioned.

All are seasoned providers so it still seems curious.

Thanks for the insight.

and I maybe naive but with the number of good reviews these ladies have, I think if I were to try such a tactic (which I wouldn't) it would be viewed as a YMMV type of review.

I tend to go back to see ladies recurringly and so these ladies could simply say "no".

The most recent BBer showed me how she had my cell number saved with a funny nickname so she won't miss my call.

I have numerous unrequested hobbyist approval on another site so I don't think bullying is a factor in this case.

within the last 3-4 months. One was in a Details men's mag (I think, sorry), and I believe the other one was in the women's magazine Glamour. If I'm wrong on either mag, I'm sorry, but I'm a voracious magazine reader and often don't remember where I read things in specific. The men's mag article talked about the fact that bare back vaginal sex is coming back big time now that HIV has become pretty much a manageable long term chronic disease such as diabetes, etc. Life expectancies are now only 5-10 years diminished for those with HIV, it said. I guess to some people, barebacking is worth a lifetime on hard-core drugs with lame side-effects. I don't get it, but then again I don't have a penis. The other article, the one in the women's mag, basically chronicaled (sp?) 3 women's lives after HIV infection. One of the women had an infant (uninfected, as transmission risk is under 1% if the mother is on the proper medication, I believe it said), one of them was 8 months pregnant, and one was neither pregnant nor with a child. It talked about how their lives are affected by the disease and how they are basically able to live relatively normally, including dating HIV negative men that don't flip out and continue having sexual relations with the women (protected, I would think, but hey, maybe not, if they read "Details")...

The hobby may change, but it definately looks like the sexual landscape of our country is changing. I will continue to protect myself, but I am absolutely glad to know that HIV infection is no longer the death sentence that it once was, for the sake of everyone out there, hobbyists and non-hobbyists.

...."I don't really intend to pursue BBing in the Hobby:, mean?   That you will only pursue it when your tiny head thinks for you again?

Is it that BILLKILE and I are so repulsive that we are not offered BB service or is it that we just don't give off that "BB vibe"?

I've seen and reviewed a lot of girls and I've only had 1 offer of BBFS. We were going at it hot and heavy BUT IT STILL WAS NOT DIFFICULT TO SAY NO! Geez, man, get a grip. "My little head took over"....blah,blah,blah. Just say no. (Thank you, Nancy)

Maybe she gets tested more regular than everyone else.  That doesn't mean to say that *your* not a carrier of something and she decided to just want to really please you not caring for her own health.  You'd be surprised how being in such a business could make your self-esteem plummet and then you further to please.  But irregardless, you will still be an anal idiot for proceeding with such an unhealthy attitude for your own life.

BB has always been available in the HIV era, and BBBJ doesn't really worry me. However, offerings of BBFS and BBA seemed relatively rare in the late 80s and 90s. I did see a couple of providers who seemed ready to go BB anyway I weanted back then, but only after a few sessions and they were rare.

In the last few years I have seen more providers who seem ready to go without even suggesting a condom or who ask if you want one rather than assume you are going to use it.

It seems like it doesn't come up until I pause and kind of clear my throat or ask about it.

Mind you, that's still a minority, but it sure seems more common.

Two word's, Cream Pie. What seems like the latest rage in the porn industry, at least the internet porn industry. And you know how that goes, once a fad is started everyone want's to jump on the band wagon. When so many women seem to be unconcerned there are plenty of jug headed men to heed the call. Just like this arena, when you enter it you better be ready to accept the risk's because they're there. No one here know's a damn thing about who they're seeing, provider or hobbyist. Practicing safe sex that's all you can do, but you can still get burned.

Anyone here see any familiar face's on the linked website? Possibly women you've seen and been with before? I see one that I almost had an appointment with once. Does seeing her on this site change my desire to see her, probably yes, not because of the BBS, more because I can't imagine why a woman would be putting on such a show for all to see.

For a woman to offer BBFS my first thought is she already has something, she thinks "it can't happen to her" or she just doesn't care, indicating some serious psychological issues.  

Kate

After all everything on this site is total fiction, right?  Did anybody consider that Anal Idiot's story is all a lie and total fiction?  I DO!  Either it could be his fantasy or written to jerk everyone's chain.  By the number of post to this thread, I would say he jerked a lot of chains.

The advent of Craigslist has really changed things in the Seattle area, I've noticed. I've worked here for 6 + years and it is only in the last couple years or so, coincidentally since Craigslist came along, that I've been getting more people pushing my boundaries. I'm a no BBBJ or DATY gal, in the minority anyway, but didn't have near as much kvetching as before-or requests for BBFS.

This is not to say that the people posting on Craigslist are generally less safe, but since it is an unmoderated board a lot of fly-by-night and desparate people post there (including people blatantly searching for drugs). For that reason Seattle started www.clreviewboard which covers some other west coast cities, and while the atmosphere there is more off the hook than other boards it helps keep things a little safer and sane.

-- Modified on 1/17/2007 7:24:06 PM

Even Mrs. Luethor won't give me full-service or anal, bareback or otherwise.

for your honesty. You write insightfully and very well. Please continue to contribute, Yup its alias.

Not that common and certainly he's not thinking with any brain at all. BBBJ is about as much as one can expect and that's not a standard by any means. BBFS and BB Anal are not myths, I believe they occur, but I don' want to be the guy second in line behind him.

I'm no doctor, but I believe piercings present more of a risk for the pierced individual. They have the potential for tears, especially if the jewelry is changed often or if the jewelry is removed for an extended period of time and then reinserted. The highest risk is after the inital piercing, because it is an open wound at that point; however, oral piercings usually heal completely within a matter of weeks.

Yeah, I think it has changed.  There was pre-Aids were there was a lot of BBFS going on according to the old timers in my area.  Then the post-Aids period were everybody covered up and for good reason.  Now I think we are moving beyond the post-Aids period and into something which might not be like the pre-Aids period but certainly more "loose" than the post-Aids period.

Let's face it; BBFS happens a good deal more than any of us would like to admit.  There is the world that we all would like to live in and then there is reality.  Most of us would like to think that we are governed by the former world when in actually all of us are governed by reality.  It is a reality that people in this hobby engage in BBFS and just because they don't write reviews and ask provacative questions on boards like this doesn't mean it doesn't happen with a larger degree of frequency than most people may be comfortable with.  It is a risk that we should all understand.

From a guys perspective, most that engage in this sort of thing think they are being provided something "special", as in she only does it with me.  Fat chance Ace.  BBFS and providers are like cockroaches and a kitchen; you see one and there is bound to be more.  Most guys are irrational about assigning risk to a BBFS encounter thinking they only have to worry about one event when in actuality they should be worried about every encounter the girl has had over the last six months.  Yes, you both are fucking everyone each of you has ever fucked before really.  Most people who are inclined to allow or ask for BBFS don't seem to reason this way.  If people weren't so naive about it it wouldn't happen as much.

Saw 2 working girls. 1. Becca Bratt from the Monnlight Bunny Ranch 2. Holly Body (works here in Vegas as a provider

"BBFS" can get it and those of us who do not want any part of it can use reviews,handles and other screening tips we ladies have to protect ourselves from these clients. Even if they are willing to wear safety gear during "CBJ", I still don't want them as a client. By providing the name of the ladies that perform "BBFS" they will get the clients they want, make more money and maybe tell us why they have decided to start this type of trend? If you do it, why not be proud and tell us why? I want to hear from the providers so I can understand this type of action and until a REAL provider (website,reviews and all) steps up, I still think this is some madeup fantasy by guys who want to think their "special'.

I don't know why you're so concerned.  You look to be a girl who will only provided covered everything.  It occurs to me that most guys seeking a possible BBFS encounter are not going to call a chick that only provides covered services.  It's not going to happen, you'll be crossed of the list just out of principle it would seem so maybe your fear is irrational.  It seems to me that anybody seeking that kind of encounter would logically start with girls willing to provide BBBJCIMwS as these girls obviously have no problem with exchange of bodily fluids.

If you are really that afraid you should maybe get out of the hobby. If not, then start with all the girls in your area that provide no holds barred BJ's and cross reference your client list.  I do believe this is an insane waste of your time though, as I just don't see anybody seeking those types of girls seeking you out.  And as to a list; that's just plain asinine.  Given that no providers would advertise BBFS openly and those that seek it would rarely write a review about it; well you get my point, another waste of your time.

Ladies that provide "BBFS" tell us. Be proud, get more clients.A list would give these "BBFS" ladies more money and that what this business is based on. Write it on their reviews. Why hide it? My reviews say what I do and don't, so a client can make an informed descion if he wants to see me or not. Why are these BBFS ladies hiding? I will beleive a provider that comes out and tells her truth if she provides "BBFS" over these men who say they are offered it and take part .Don't you think it is strange that only men "brag" about this? I think it is a hoax, that these men want us(providers) to think we are going to feel pressured into doing this and that you clients(are not goodlooking or good enough lovers to get these "BBFS" offers). I hope I look like a clean lady that cares about her safety It is not about fear. I want to know the truth so I can figure out how this will change the business(if it is not a joke). I have been in this business for about 6 years(with a couple of breaks, one year traveling overseas for relief help and one year as a private mistress). My skin is think enough. A "no holds barred BJ" is a far cry from letting a man you do not know at all(his health or sexual history) come in you during sex or anal. Other ladies are posting also, so I will waste my time as I see fit. Don't read my posts if they bother you. I care about what happens to other providers because this is MY business. Once these "BBFS" providers come out and are proud of what they do, maybe they will share with us why they do not care about their health or the health of clients. Maybe(if this is not a hoax)these ladies can become better informed about the dangers to themselves and how you do not have to do "bareback" everything to make it in this business. Just because I don't "bareback" everything does not mean I do not have anything to say about this subject. Unless you are a "male provider" I have more legitimate interest in this subject as it affects my work,my fellow providers and client/friends.

Thanks AnalIdiot for the chuckles  

-- Modified on 1/19/2007 4:56:34 AM

Maybe I should have added more detail to the last paragraph of my post, forgive me if I mistype I have been at a dinner party.  I really don;t believe BBFFS is something that is offered.  I think it is something that isallowed and there is a difference.  There are providers and clients.  
clients seek and providers offer.  A minority of clients may seek this service or it may just happen through circumstances(I'm not talking about the trash tthat try to slip off the condom so lets not go there, this is two consenting adults)but itis never offered.  This may sound technical but think oftwo examples.  One is were client and provider meet and go at it for 4 or 5 times straitght.  They develop feelings and on the 6th time they engage in BBFS, the reason is not particularly important as it would be specific to the two people envolved...  The second is were the provider does't realize she has run out of protectiono and as the "act" is about to take place she informs the client.  He wants a refund and she doesn't want to give one.  They go back and forth and she finally agrees to BBFS if he "pulls out" just to avoid giving the refusnd.  In both cases BBFS was never offerd but ith happened.  These examples are by no means perfect illustrations bukt I think any fair mined individual would b e persuaded.

If you agree with the premise that BBFS is never offered but merely allowed when sought/happensdue to circumstances with a MINORITY of the clinet base, then you must see the reason why no provider would ever stand up and "be counted" as someone who "offers" BBFS.

Further, I don't see the logic in your beleif that women who profess that they offer BBFS will somehow make more money.  I believe it is a fact that the entire population of providers engage in CFS with the vast manority of their client base and that includes the ones who might occasionally allow BBFS for what ever reason.  This means everybody's client list is filled with cusomers on the CFS side.  For the vast majority of providers 100% of their client base is CFS.  For others a little mor liberal it maybe 090% CFS and 10%BBFS(just throwing out numbers for illustration).  If this is a fair approximation of the case, then how would any chick stating that she offer, allow or due to circumstances lets BBFS occur make more money for herself?  She would likely have to replace close to 90% of her clients as per the example above.  I'm not sure ther are that many clients that seek BBFS to make it profitable for her to say something like that/

Anyway, I don't thing you and I see the problem form the same angle.  Not saying you are wrong ro anything like that, only that my theory MAY hold more water than yours.  My experiences in the hobby make me believe so.  As tiy your post bothering me: you must have misread my intent.  I merely wanted to understan the reasons behind what you are lobbying for.  If nothing else, you should be applaude for your conscientious attitude.

Farewell and Cheerie-Bye

and Leg. The more threads I read and with the experiences I have now had ... I am not laughing about it anymore.

I raised the question as a matter of serious discussion. Several made jokes about it and as you can read some have been somewhat hostile ... to each his own.

Enjoy the laugh.

-- Modified on 1/20/2007 10:30:14 AM

I'm at a loss to explain why this creates such an emotional response from this community.  So it's OK to risk transmitting disease to practice the hobby in a protected manner for pleasure (or money for you providers), but too dangerous for someone to hobby unprotected for the extra pleasure (or money)?  As has already been posted, there is a risk of disease transmission with protected sex.  Many outside the community would look down on all of us for taking what they perceive as an absurd risk.  Why the need to bash those that increase the risk/reward?  Can someone help me understand this?