I was informed today that when traveling to the Carolinas, that because I was African American my rates are too high.

So I would like to pose a question here for hobbyists and providers.(Feel free to answer with an alias if it helps you be more honest).

Is it your understanding or expectation that a Black woman provider should have lower rates because she is Black? Do you expect more from a higher rated Black provider (services, looks) than her equally priced counterpart?
Is the Black provider of less value to you?

No, no, a thousand times, no!  Anyone suggesting this is a closeted bigot with the closet door very much ajar.

where we just plain love "Sugar"!  Brown or white.

I do not thing race should be an issue in regards to donation or service. The lady should be the one setting her rate based on the amount of work she wants and how precious is her time. EVERYONE is equal!!!
The only time I think race is relevant is when a gentlemen is choosing his fantasy. There are still some gentlemen that are open minded and would like to meet ladies of different races.

We'll send you home on clouds of Gold.

...give a TER speical and we'll call it all even.

Obviously, I've never experienced it myself, but a very dear provider friend of mine who is African American reports that racism is rampant.  Fewer appointments, lower rates.  There's no excuse for it, no reason for it.  I can't tell you how to run your life or your business, but if I were you, I'd try to find a place to work where racism is less than more, and then hold your head  high and be proud of who you are.

i've often heard it said from asian providers that hobbyists generally expect lower rates from them.  what a ridiculous concept!  helluva way to make points, telling a lady that she charges too much cuz of her friggin' RACE!

A nice Asian and black mix really hits the spot sometimes.  Now that's a friggin' RACE!

exotic often means a somewhat higher rate.

I don't really know why, but there seems to be less representation of African-American women on the web than I would expect.  The ones I have met seem to price themselves, if anything, a bit higher than their caucasian counterparts.  The same seems to be true for other ethnicities such as Asian and especially for women of (Asian) Indian origin.

It's not the main attraction, but I find meeting women of all types of backgrounds exciting and I will pay (a bit) more for the variety.

Anyone telling you different is using racism to take advantage of you and you should avoid them.

The only women who seem to price themselves under the market are those who are larger sized and/or older; though even there such things are based mostly on discrimination and not performance, sad to say.

-- Modified on 2/10/2007 6:51:57 AM

If someone is going to make an ignorant, racist comment like that, why would he be seeing a black provider in the first place?
Skin color doesn't make a difference to me. IMHO, after seeing your pix and reviews, I think your rates are very reasonable.

A woman's pussy should not be judged by the color of its skin.  Like a Johnny Cochran argument, that does not make sense.  In fact, when I think of the world's oldest profession, a black woman comes to mind first, not a blonde Swede.  Having said that, it is perfectly OK to judge a woman's pussy by its pubes.  Called me a liberal sack of shit, but I stand for justice and equally among all pussy everwhere.

NO NO NO don't worry about what those people say if you want to get the quality appointments portray yourself in one way. A lady. That is what it's about not skin color. I haven't looked at your pics or rates yet but it seems to me that the more the woman represents a lady and quality, whether she's white, exotic, black or whatever she gets what she asks for. I for one have not seem too many ads for real quality black women in the Carolinas but then again I have to admit I don't search for providers all that much...lol!

Yes, this comment is very "racist" by many people's definition, but...

I'm just not attracted to members of another race. Do I have anything against anyone of another race? Not at all. Non-caucasian women just don't do it for me.

It's all pink..... on the inside.  

...he said that he once had a beautiful black girl on his books. He considered her amongst the most attractive girls that he had ever represented. Yet her bookings were way less than others that he had on his books at the time. Guys just were not interested to the same extent as the white girls.

It is a function of the times we live in. Racism is still rampant.

And whilst it is sad, the guy above was correct. It is just a question of the demand. We live in a sick society where the colour of your skin still defines much of what you can expect in every aspect of your life.

On a slightly positive note things are improving (even if slowly) and hopefully in 50 years time a thread like this will be unnecessary and just a feature of an ignoble past.

For me, I'm happy to book them all, regardless, as long as they are good. The more the merrier

I know a Black lady who makes it a point to tour some of these out the place cities where there are no blacks and she makes alot of $$$...Folks it's simply supply and demand.

"Guys just were not interested to the same extent as the white girls. Racism is still rampant."

sorry, gotta chime in here.  i strongly disagree that the interest, or lack thereof, is indicative of rascism.  i, for one, prefer white and asian ladies in the hobby.  does that make me a racist against black, latina, or any other ladies?  i think not.  

that's like saying that since blue is my favorite color, i must be prejudiced against green.  absurd.  i like green just fine, but i PREFER blue, and since i'm paying, i'm gonna pick what i want.  i also have no expectation that the green shirt is going to cost less than the blue one!

I believe that anyone who suggest that there is no room for personal tastes in the realm of beauty has not thought this issue through very carefully.  Some people tend to be more attracted to brunettes than to other hair colors, some men prefer tall women while others prefer short women, some prefer women with lots of curves while others prefer women who are thin.  I do not believe this is morally wrong.  Although women who are attractive to me come in many varieties, I do have preferences.  In the realm of skin tone, I personally find a light brown (often meaning mixed race) complexion especially attractive.  I may be accosted for this view, but I don't believe it is morally reprehensive.

...it is just that some people automatically dismiss the idea of a black provider out of hand without even giving it any consideration. That is the type of individual that I am referring to and I suspect they might be quite prevalent. They would not consider the idea of a black woman based purely on their perception of black people as a race. Regardless of the lady herself. Not every guy is open minded.

But clearly, from a consumers perspective it is fine to book whomever you want. It's a buyer's market, by and large anyway.

The color of the skin doesn't matter in the abstract, but sometimes I have a hankering for a specific type. Sometimes I want a redhead, or a spinner, an asian, a busty woman, etc. If there aren't many of my preferred type, perhaps I'll have to pay more. We usually have to pay more for the exotic and rare.

On the other hand if I have my heart [or whatever] set on a busty red-headed asian spinner, it doesn't matter that others are charging less. I want what I want.

Just because you are black does not mean you are worth less. Before you assume that racism is the cause (though that would be my initial assumption) you should consider other possibilites. Perhaps going to the Carolina should be reconsidered.

My thoughts...

...it seems perfectly rational. Some people like Cherry Coke and some like Pepsi. It's personal preference.

What is wrong is where somebody sees a black face and automatically dismisses it based upon perceptions of what black people are in general. Often false perceptions.

Some escorts are dismissed out of hand and get fewer bookings and consequently may not be able to demand the same premium rate as others. I am certain that process occurs.

au contraire....
Posted by mrfisher , 2/10/2007 6:40:39 AM     [mrfisher has 18 review]

exotic often means a somewhat higher rate.



Mr Fisher, you have once again cut through the BS and nailed it. You are wise beyond your years, or a really old guy, to get things right so often. Keep up the clear mind and great words for, at least me, to read.

I have seen 3 African American women in the hobby and each one was just awesome. One of them was my first regular provider and we maintain a great friendship to this day. If some think that skin color relates to different quality they are dead wrong, and missing out in my opinion. I guess certain areas are more prone to that as Turkana said.

Vanica, prices have nothing to do with race and ethnicity. Prices are set by the market surrounding it. If the market surrounding you is a low market with low prices, well you either have to adapt, or move on, or keep your prices and just cater to a tiny sliver of the hobbyists community in the Carolinas, which means that you could very likely don't get a fair capital return on your trip.

So, again it is not about race or ethnicity. It is about market. Your prices would be normal prices in NYC, LA, LV and DC, but they are too high for the Carolinas.

First, I want to say Vanica that we have seen each other and I think that I had a better time with you than most ladies I see! I know of certain areas in the US that a black lady does not do very well at all. An owner of an agency in a city told me that he had to get rid of the black ladies he had working for him because it just did not pan out.

I remember years ago in the city where I reside, I was seeing a local black lady, she told me that 80% of her client base was from the east coast…that is because she toured there. I feel that there still is not a lot of ethnic ladies in this city, but it is changing.

It is to bad that this is still like this in the USA.

on this board, on TV, on "talk radio" in the news.. you name it.  And since you have asked honestly, I will reply in like fashion.  

I do not know!  What I do know, is that some providers that I have seen - I am VERY attracted to.  Others, less so.  and let us further say that each charges the same... and while one is a bargin, I consider the other to be over priced.  That is a long way of saying, that for men who are into Black ladies, you may be underpriced... for others, overpriced.  Would I go with a black provider?  I have not as yet, but I would - if I were attracted to her, and in that case... well, then the price would clearly be justified before the session... but as she opens the door, if she does not live up to the anticipation, well?  then it is an evaluation of performance, looks and personality.

No easy answer, but on the whole I would have to say that if you are hot black lady with a killer bod, great face and good performance... the answer is no - same as for white.

I should also add that there are Several - many - white gals who should not be in the biz... they don't seem to enjoy the biz... and as such - they are not much fun...

As a person of color, I've had some experience with being on the other end of this dilemma--I've had providers turn around at my door or close their door as I approached.  The way I look at it, that's entirely their choice.  No one, for emphasis NO ONE should tell someone else who they should and should not share one of the most intimate human experiences with.  Whatever criteria a woman uses to determine who will be her bedpartner is entirely hers to choose.  

So it seems to me that so must it be for the hobbyist.  The question you pose is fraught with baggage--no doubt supplied by more than one indelicate and boorish hobbyist.  I think the answer to the question has to be that you are willing to take whatever rate you're comfortable with and you have to decide whether someone who asks such a question is worth spending time with.  If a provider demanded more from me because I am not caucasian I would politely but firmly decline and find someone else to bring me to a happy ending.  But somewhere on this planet I am sure there are some hobbyists who would say so what, pay the extra freight and dive in.

Given that this is where commerce and human feelings intersect, I doubt there can be any answer or intimation of a solution that will really work.  But if you think that an hour of your time is worth X, seems to me you have a right to say on your website or wherever you advertise that you will not negotiate, haggle or bargain and to deal with any attempts to do so as your good judgment moves you.

I prefer blacks, Latinos, Asians  and best of all a mix of all three.. rather than a lily white caucasian, but here is the truth. If a black woman's features resemble a white woman she is considered more attractive. Just the way things are here in North America.

Oh by the way..I think Vanica is very attractive. She has that exotic look about her that I prefer.



-- Modified on 2/10/2007 2:41:39 PM

It's age. eom

-- Modified on 2/10/2007 5:43:06 PM

Personally, being "latina", I've never experienced anything similar...

But I've seen/heard about both  extreme. As most of you know I sometimes  work with a well known porn star. From her I've heard that avarage color  ladies (the ones who do not look like Halle Berry or Beyonce) get paid less in the porn industry (white/latin average girls get paid as the is the market).

On the other  hand, I've  seen website and  reviews of color  ladies that have fees over 1K . And they seem to do just  fine. (Ex: Brooke St-James from NJ).

Vanica, as you may know, I also travel  a lot. I  stopped going to cities where the average gilr's rate was less then my rate. And of course, as a common sense, I wouldn't go to places like Miami, where latinas are per dozens in every corner.
I think you  should visit places where your ethnicity, and type of  women is more  desirable (maybe Seattle??)...  

Don't let the racism thing get to you. Remember that the  good part of our business is that we set the rates and limits, and also decide who we want to see or 'where we want to be'. You are a provider with an established reputation and some people should know and appreciate who you are...  You are  great... Stand in there gorgeous!

Big kisses,

Laura De Leon

Oh my god, what a preposterous notion!  I've seen your photos, and I'd pay MORE for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

an expectation of rational and consistant thought.  Yes racists hate other ethnic groups, but they don't, simply because they can't, eliminate the objects of their scorn from their lives.  Instead, they belittle others, and make sure everyone knows his/her place.  The statement that began this thread certainly seems to be along those lines.

But that's just me Vanica. Our schedules just never seemed to mesh when I come into DC.

To the issue, I had to go to he Carolinas board and see if you had posted, and you did. Two hobbyist came on and boosted your ego some, but it is sounding like the gutless wonders your are referring to, were hitting you up via PM or email. Figures.

Great advice from Babylicious though. I believe it has a lot to do with low fee areas such as The Carolinas. Take that off your tour destinations and move one. Geesh. Plenty of other tour areas, where you are a bargain to be sure, an by the way.....

When the hell ya going to make it to vegas you ebony goddess? lmao

Too many people are total idiots.  Vanica, anyone who tells you such a thing should be put on your do not see list.  Forever. Take care lovely.

there are certainly others who would value you less than providers with other distinguising characteristics.  But the same is true of all providers.  Some guys like very young providers, others prefer mature women.  Some guys like BBWs, others like athletic builds. Some guys like intelligent, well educated gals who can carry on an enjoyable conversation, others care only about getting laid as long as the price is right.

As to your questions on rates, I think they've been ably answered in this thread. But, just to throw my hat into the ring, you should charge whatever you think is fair, particularly to yourself.  Unless you feel you're making what you're worth, you'll be miserable.  Now, it may be that you have to adjust your rates from market to market.  But that will NOT be because you're black.  It will be because every provider is forced to do so.

The question isn't whether or not racism is dead in America...let's all be honest here, it isn't. It isn't fair, it isn't right, and yes, it impacts providers and clients all across the country.

I have to wonder though, why anyone would be so craven as to PM a provider to:
1.Complain about her rates.
-and-
2.Use her race as an excuse.

WTF??? You get NO sympathy here, buddy. If she charges more than you're comfortable with paying, then move on. If you don't like women of color, then move on. You should NOT be badgering someone to lower their rates based on your misguided world-view. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it. That's also why there's places like CL for those of you in the blue-light special crowd.

Whoever PM'd that hogwash to Vanica is a racist, a cheapskate, and a coward. Period.

Oh, and stupid too..."Here's your sign", as they say. There are many, many providers in the Carolinas that have comparable rates. Some are as much as three times higher. Some are even women of color. Imagine that!

'Splain that to me, Jethro.