So I'm monitoring my daughter's emails (16 years old), and find that after breaking up with her boyfriend a couple of weeks ago, she's yearning for male companionship.  Not looking for a boyfriend, just horny.  So she IM's her male buddies, teases them a bit, and they offer her to pleasure her orally.  She accepts, and she's off to the races, for two weekends running.  

She's a great kid.  Good student, great athlete, very balanced individual.  I'm thinking I've got a few options:

1.  Stop monitoring her IM's, and emails.  Ignorance is bliss.
2.  Monitor her like a hawk and try to slow her down.
3.  Talk with her about it in a general way since I'm not supposed to know this detail.  
4.  Tell her where the condoms are, and make sure that when she graduates to the next step, she prevents disease and pregnancy.  

I'm divorced, further complicating the situation.  I'm certain she didn't get her sexual appetite from her mother.  Ugh.

If I may be so bold as to stick my nose into the theard and
suggest that you follow the option of sitting down and showing
her where the comdoms are and make sure that they get used
because the chances are that she may have already progressed
to the point of having intercourse already. You love her and
it would give you alot of comfort in knowing that you have
taken the measure of showing your concern and doing so with alot
of love! I have a 16 year old who is nothing but the greatest
daugther a guy could ever want! and I have been there and done
the talk thing and she has already had her first encounter and
what not. at any rate good luck to you and her! trooper

Speaking from first hand experience as a teen from a similar situation, I am here to tell you do NOT show your daughter where the condoms are (as my Dad did)!!

I love my father very much and as a young girl I showed him that love by making my very best effort to NOT put him in that emabarassing position and always hoped that, no matter what he suspected, he would show me the same depth of love by not putting ME in that position, either!

NOTHING is more embarassing to a 16 year old daughter than having her parents(father mostly) reveal that they "know" or think they know what is going on in her sexual life.  It's not like her generation invented anything .... nothing goes on that our parents didn't do, but at 16, a young girl is NOT ready to visualize what her father does in his free time and is DEFINATELY not ready to think that her FATHER is visualizing what SHE does sexually!

PLEASE show her the truest of "father-daughter love"  ALLOW her to tell you 'honest Daddy, I'm a good girl' and allow her to think that you BELIEVE her when she says it! Or at the very least.. allow her the dignity to share her personal life with you when and if its comfortable for HER.   If not, the communication barriers and intimate tensions could grow and that is something may never mend.

Now ... if you seriously believe that your 16 year old daughter doesn't know about and understand about STD's and Birth Control (which i seriously doubt in this society), you may have a problem that you need to find a way to solve without letting her know what you know.   But please don't use this as an opportunity to show her how hip, wise or understanding you are!

If you truly love her, you'll never let her know what you know.. especially when it involves intruding on her privacy that is so very precious to her at this stage of her development.

Bubba ...  I have no idea what your daughter did to make you mistrust her so much .... but you got what you deserve - you now have a secret you have to take to your grave because if the kid EVER finds out what you've been doing ... how you feel about her .. how much you trust her .... she'll never trust you again.

If your daughter really is a smart, accomplished and well balanced individual, then ... you're outrageous invasion of her privacy is between belief.    You read her emails?  Scan her IM's?   Do you read her diary?   How about having her followed?  If she talks about these things on-line, God Only Knows what she might be doing in real life!  

Close this chapter.  DO NOT discuss this with her.  NEVER let her know what you know .... and ....

Until and only IF you find some evidence of some serious behavior problems in your daughter ..... you STOP invading her privacy and START trusting her.

Little kids, little problems.  Big kids, big problems...

Children (and yes, under 18 is still a child) require close monitoring.  Sure they need the ILLUSION of privacy, but in actual fact, the don't deserve much of it.

Most REAL parents monitor EVERYTHING about their kids.  I am their parent, not their pal!  People that have your opinion either have no children of their own or really aren't good parents.

Don't try to defend yourself in either case, because you are simply wrong in either case.  Bad parents and non-parents have this glorified position that states they have to be friends with their kids.  This is DEAD WRONG.  You have to be above the "buddy syndrome" until they are adults.  

Stop dispensing bad parenting advice.  A parent that monitors their children and keeps close tabs on them is DOING THERE JOB.  Parents that hold your position are simply bad parents and they will reap the whirlwind in the end.

This many be my opinion, but in this case, MINE IS RIGHT and your's is completely off-base.

I am sorry, but I do have to disagree with you here.  I think the discussion of sex and ones sexuality should be an open one.  If your mature enough to partake in such a mature activity, then I do believe that one should be mature enough to discuss it.  

I had these open discussions with my parent, well grandparents since they raised me and am thankful that they did and no, there was no visualization of what they did or them of me.  That is not what it was all about.  They were concerned, didn't know what the hell I was hearing in the school yards and wanted to be sure that I had my facts straight.  That is not to say that it wasn't difficult from them, for they were a generation apart from what was acceptable for the times, but they were open in those discussions, perhaps the European mindset that sex is not dirty, but something natural and quite human.

I think it is sad this gentleman did breech a level of trust here, especially if there was no behavior or actions that would warrant such and she is a well adjusted teen.

It will be awkward if these things were never discussed in the first place.  I have had discussions with my son for as long as I can remember, and since he does come to me and question me about things he does hear, that comfort level and awkwardness are not present.  It isn't a big deal and we are the better for it.

But better late than never.  The discussion should be had, to ensure that she is not mislead on what she hears.

Lauren

plus i hate doing DATY in the first place!  ... (J/K, i love DATY

---

i'm sorry, it was a JOKE, is all.  actually not even MY joke. it's a Woody Allen joke (speaking of underage daughters!)

i think it was in PLAY IT AGAIN SAM, when Diane Keaton is chatting away and says something like: "On TV there was a report of another woman getting raped in Storyville last week" ... and Woody immediately snaps back: "I swear to God, i was nowhere NEAR Storyville last week"  [rimshot]

but seriously, i'm the last person to give out parenting advice. good luck to you. all i will say is that 16 is not an atypical age for girls to become sexually active (at least not these days)

You do not have to approve of the behavior, but you need to address it in a frank, honest way.  The more information she has, and the more comfortable she is with you, the easier it will be.

Edited for spelling

-- Modified on 9/1/2003 8:04:47 AM

Hallejuah! Well said! You couldn't be more right!! Forcing her to reveal her sexual self to her father at that age could irreparably damage their relationship!
444

Yes!

I agree with you Cari, my father would have been the last person I would have confided in when I was a teenager.

If anything, I may have had a few discussions with my mother, or a girlfriend's mother, but any adult male was unthinkable.

Even my mother made a huge mistake when she was snooping in my room and found a note once. It was written to me by my girlfriend describing a boy she liked and the (mild) sexual activities she wanted to do with him.

When my mother confronted me with the note, it was one of the most embarrassing moments of my teenage life (teenage girls being such drama queens). I never again talked to her about anything personal and I became super secretive about everything I did--I became the master of hiding notes, weed, cash, birth control pills, everything.

I would tell the poster to NEVER admit to his daughter that he was snooping--the violation of privacy would be more harmful than he could possibly imagine. He needs to stop monitoring her communication and let her explore her sexuality in her own way. I'm sure she knows about birth control and STD's.

Obviously a father wants to be there for his children. I'd say he should try to appear as open-minded as possible: don't criticize (too much)her clothing, her friends, her music, and especially the boys she likes. The more open-minded you appear, the more likely she will come to you with a sensitive subject (if her mother isn't available).

On the other hand, you being open-minded doesn't give her free rein to go and do what she wants, so do keep tabs on her whereabouts and make her stick to the curfew you've established.

Good luck. I'm sure she'll turn out great (although you might get a few gray hairs early, LOL).

I have to agree with Lauren, In my prior post I failed to address
the turst issue with the original post of having read the IM
of his dugther, but not aside of this fact I still think it to
be the wise course of action to have a conversation with her.
As I stated in my prior post, I have been there and done that.
I have a twenty four year old son whom I guided through those
tough years of knowing his own sexuallity, Likes and dislikes,
and becoming comfortable with himself as an indiviual.
And now I have had the blessing of doing so with my sixteen year
old daugther. Needless to say me and my children are quite
close and they look to me as a loving parent for answers,
I take my tasks as such very seriously and put forth the best of
me in teaching and understanding my children ( my precious gifts
from God) Though it may be uncomfortable to open up the subject
with the young lady, I would urge you to look at the other side
of the coin" and think of what could happen if you were to do
nothing at all. The other side of the coin being, things such
as STDs and having her own children before she was mature enough
to raise them. I guess it all comes down to some pretty basic
things, such as being a responsible parent and doing what is
requried even if it is uncomfortable or a task you may disdain.
Life is not a bowl of cherries and being a good parent is
probably the most difficult task that man or woman alike could
ever undertake. I am a proud parent of two of the most
wonderful people that have ever walked the face of this earth!
and I am happy for each day that I am there DAD! I derive much
pride and self-esstem for having raised them pretty much single
handely on my own and I am more than happy with the outcome.
sorry for the long post but I cannot help but share my thoughts
and joy!                               Trooper

Dad, you need to stop that snooping but you should speak to your daughter in general terms and make condoms available to her.  Never confront her with what you know.  As others have said, its a terrible violation of trust.  I'm still mad at my mom 20 years later for this sort of thing.

Cari, this "I'm a good girl Daddy" thing you've got doesn't seem healthy.  Its perfectly natural for "Good girls" to want and to have sex.  Its too bad our society, especially the religious dudes make us feel bad for things that, if done responsibly, can bring us such joy.  Anyway, let's face it, we're going to have sex anyway because its such a powerful urge.

Sincerely,
Beelzebub

How can you be "sure she knows about STD's and bith control" That she has heard of them sure. There is a lot of ignorance and misinformation out there. Just assuming that a teenager has the correct information to choose wisely is too risky. There is no substitude for an open, honest, and tactful discussion of the facts. The invasion of her privacy is a separate issue.

Yes, I agree with you, Lauren.

I am a provider who was raised by parents during the 60's and 70's. However, my parents grew up in the 30's through 40's and were married in the early 50's, so their rapport with their lacked slightly on the sexual discussion circuit. I ended up experimenting on my own because I thought that young men were in love with me when they wanted to make out . . . silly me. I learned quickly the different between love and lust(which I can enjoy now), but it took some time to be comfortable with myself. I can honestly say that if done properly, a parent should (and must) be open about topics of sexual progression in their children's lives. Safe sex needs to be reinforced, a lot! If a parent would share some of his/her experiences with the child without getting too graphic it would make the child feel more close to him/her and confident about talking about their sexual dilemas facing him/her. Be careful not to play the role of a sister or brother, though. Although I haven't had children, I feel like I raised my nieces with my sister and seen what she went through with them. You might tell your son a story about how "stupid" you were at one time because you wanted a girl so badly that you forgot about wearing a condom and what the consequences could have been. You could have ended up struggling with finances your whole life instead of putting your son through college now. And, your daughter -- tell her that the right guy will come along some day and if she's going to take risks, she will have to be adult enough to handle the emotional scars that could come from one-way love. She definitely needs to know the drawbacks of sex at a young age and also the awareness of her own body so that she can please herself (which is a lot safer than misintrepting love and sexual pleasure).

Hugs,
Ciara

maybe you should offer your services to her!!

Ok, if not, stay out of her life....

Shaye

Yes, be a parent not a buddy. But your child needs to trust you! Reading their e-mail and allowing them to believe that it's private is the equivalent of lying to them IMO. If you are found out you will lose their trust forever, and they will just become more secretive. I think I am a good parent, and I am open and honest with my daughter. However that doesn't mean I share all my doings with her. But I never ever lie to her. And would never think of reading her personal messages without her permission. A teenager is struggeling to establish her independence and a parent must learn to give up control in increments. If you keep them under your thumb, once they get out from under it they will most likely go wild with all sorts of risky behavior. A child must be given their freedom to learn. Yet you still need to protect and teach them. It can be a difficult and fine line to walk. But whoever said that raising a child was easy?

those TV commercials that are running that show a kid with a voice over saying how much he/she dislikes the parents for meddling, going through their stuff, if they ever had a child of their own they would never treat them like that, etc..  At the end of the commercial the kids says to the effect of..."but im so glad you did"..."if you love your child you will intervene"...

Ignorance is not bliss.  Be a parent and sit her down.  If you love her you will ....sure it may be awkward now, but someday she may thank you.

My parents never gave any advice beyond yelling at me when I fuc*ed up, in retrospect it would have been nice to have someone with wisdom dispensing good advice. Making good decisions starts at that age...she may regret a bad decision her entire life if you don't bring it to the table.

Good Luck

It's always refreshing to encounter someone who knows all the answers! Maybe you should run for Governor/President on the Inquisitor/Puritan Ticket.
444
P.S Try THEIR instead of THERE.

I have no problem with you monitoring a minor that lives under your care, they are your responsibility one way or the other. Since she is unaware of your monitoring, you have not abused the priveledge, congratulations.

I am a single guy and have no children so any advice I offer wopuld be completely worthless. However may I offer a suggestion. Your daughter hopefully has a close adult female role model: your girlfriend, a friends mother, close relative .... Try talking to this lady and ask for her assistance. If she is willing to help, just let her know that you think your daughter is being sexually active and you want to make sure that she is getting good and complete information. Ask her to talk to your daughter for you.

If that works, you haven't risked your relationship with your daughter, she is unaware of your monitoring and she now has the help she needs. Doubt that it will all work out that way, life seldom does. Hopefully my suggestion will at least give you an idea that will be of help.

You sounds like a supportive and responisble parent, good luck.

I agree with the sentiment that the poster should not confront the daughter with this directly, but I do think that the parent has a right (and a responsibility) to be apprised of the child's activities.  Let the child explore and grow, but don't forget that she is STILL a child in need of support, boundaries, and guidance. 16 years old is a confusing, difficult age.  A little underage sexual experimentation is harmless, but, on the off chance that something else could be happening (drugs, sexual abuse, online chatting with adults, etc.), parents should keep some tabs on the things there children are involved in.

I not only AM a parent, but a very good one.

The difference is ... that I raised my kids with a good sense of values, decent morals and I showed, taught, displayed and earned TRUST.

Of COURSE kids need to be monitored.   And a 6 year old gets closer scrutiny than a 12 year old who gets more than a 16 year old.    By 16, this girl is either decent and trustworthy (as the writer describes) or she isn't.  Period.   You talk frankly with her .. of course.   You look for signs that she may be having problems or into something over her head - certainly.

But you simpply do NOT invade a 16 year old's privacy and betray every bit of trust that she has earned over her life history by clandestinely reading her email and IM's!!!!  That is just plain WRONG (as are you) and if the girl were EVER to find out that her father was doing such a thing, their relationship would never ever again be the same.

You know who DOES invade someone's privacy that deeply?  Someone who is themselves so dishonest and untrustworthy that they are forced to assume that everyone else is, too.

You Write:

I have no problem with you monitoring a minor that lives under your care, they are your responsibility one way or the other. Since she is unaware of your monitoring, you have not abused the priveledge, congratulations.

No ... he hasn't abused the priviledge,  HE HAS ABUSED HER TRUST!

What he is saying .. in effect is  "everything I taught you, from the time you were two .... everything we shared about being a decent person, doing the right thing, the difference between right and wrong ... all the things you've shown me in all your growing years about what a good girl you are .. smart ... well behaved ..... HONEY, IT WAS ALL BULLSHIT!  IN SPITE OF ALL THAT, I DON'T TRUST YOU, YOUR SENSE OF MORALS, YOUR SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG ... NONE OF IT!   You're just an impressionable little girl that has no real sense and must be carefully controled, but since I don't have the balls to tell you that (or could it be because I know how badly it would hurt you to know that I don't trust you and never will trust you) I'll do it behind the scenes like a thief."

That's what he's doing.

If monitoring her personal communications were the proper thing to do .. he'd tell her that he's doing it.

I actually appreciate your point of view.  Causes significant conflict for me as well.  

Question to you:  you state that if _____ were the proper thing to do, he'd tell ____ that he's doing it.  

Let's turn it to you.  Since you obviously particpate in the hobby, and you believe it's the proper thing to do, do you share it with your wife, children, employer, and friends?   I'm sincerely interested.  thanks.

I've learned and re-read each of your posts.  My 16 year old is great.  My 18 year old has a history of suicidal concepts.  That was the primary reason for the computer monitoring.  Story is too long to go into here.

The diversity of the posts accentuates the challenge we all face in raising our teenage children.  You can tell when the posts come from the heart, based on experience.  I can't think of a lot of places that I could put this info out in a public way and invite comments.  Thank you all, yes, even Megapig.  I totally respect what you're saying.

All parents are legal and morally responsible for any minor living under their roof. Parents can legally monitor their children's access to the internet, thier telephone calls, their mail, what books they are allowed to check out at the library and what television programs they can watch, without giving any form of notice to their children. The law actually requires parents to monitor all these things. Whether or not that is the right thing to do is a matter of opinion.

I can understand the outrage at the lack of privacy. Personally I would been deeply offended if my parents had done the same. However times have changed and parents have to be more aware of the influences and dangers lurking for children out there. My parents were more worried about me talking to strangers on the street or getting into cars with strangers. With anonymous chatrooms and instant messaging, it is more difficult for the children to spot the monster in the bushes than ever before.

You show outrage at his lack of trust in his girl's sense of right and wrong. However most parents follow up when their children first step into the world and usually do it again with each progressive step. When you leave your child home by themselves for the first time, you don't call to see if everything is okay? On their first day walking to school alone, you don't follow along out of sight to see if they get there okay? These are all signs of a careful parent and no one thinks twice about it.

He has been watching her discreetly and without interference. She is allowed to take steps into the world, to grow and to learn. If no action is taken then it is not controlling, merely monitoring. Yes, it shows that he does not fully trust her. She is 16 and still learning about life and the asshole the populate it. Hell, she can't even drive by herself, vote, hold a job, marry or drink in public. All these acts are restricted to her and so is her privacy.

I didn't like it as a kid and still do not like it. However, I can see how a parent may see the need. All her life he is going to worry about her, until the day he dies. At least during these years he can have a direct influence and hopefully allow her to grow into a sane and healthy adult. If I was stuck with this job, I would be looking for all the intel I could get as well.

First .. let me point out that my wife is my EX wife.  I'm a poster boy for the old riddle  "Q: Why is divorce so expensive?  A: Because IT'S WORTH IT!"

Second, the people that work for me do know about my interests and unusual lifestyle ... but that whole thing is, as they say, a separate story.

Let's get back to the kids.    When my first kid was learning to walk I had the same parent tendency that all of us have .. to reach out and catch him each time he was going to fall.   We learn from hard experience that the best thing to do is LET them fall (we just make sure it's a relatively SAFE place to fall) because falling is part of the process of learning to walk.  Then, as they get older ... as we see more and more experiences under their belt and we see them taking on bigger and bigger challenges .. the urge is still there.  We STILL have the urge to protect them from ... well ... everything.

My oldest kid is almost 21, in college in the Northern part of California and each time he backs out of my driveway to go back to Chico (with a wallet full of cash and a trunk full of clean clothes) I STILL DIE inside and have this urge to drive him because if I'm with him, I know he'll be safe!!!!   God willing that urge will never go away ... but I resist it.

YOUR problem is that you daughter is 16, not 9.  Whether it's good or bad, she HAS BEEN exposed to things that we didn't know about until we were older - she SAW Madonna Kiss Britney!  As much as you might like to, you can't un-ring that bell.

Your daughter has heard about oral sex before.  The fact that she and her friends were discussing it in the manner in which they did makes it self evident.  Your daughter knows about sex, too.  She knows about STD's and condoms and abortions and she knows that there are providers (probably doesn't know that TERM) but she knows it happens.   Does that mean she's safe?  No, it most certainly does NOT.   Kids today think they can tell if someone has VD by how they look.  Does that mean they're stupid?  Probably not.  That comes more from the feeling at 16 that you're going to live forever and the worst thing that could ever happen to a girl is that her dad moves the family to Cleveland.   Zits are worse than death in their minds.

But here's the thing.  And there's no getting around it.  Unless you've had her followed ... you don't KNOW.   You HAVE to trust her.  You HAVE to take her word for it!  Why?  Because at the end of the day ... at 16 years old ... she is mostly already the woman she's going to be.   Her temper, her sense of humor, her attitudes toward people, sex, right, wrong, honor and dishonor have already formed.  The NEXT 10 or so years ... and probably to some degree the rest of her life, will in ever smaller ways SHAPE those feelings ... modify them ... but the roots are already there.

She needs to see in your eyes all the hope and love you have for her ... and she needs to see in your eyes that YOU think she's a good kid ... because you are still one of THE FEW rock solid anchors in her life.   YOU think she's a good kid goes a long way to HER thinking she's a good kid.

You can tell her and show her that you love her and it's obvious that you do.   You can certainly show her and tell her that the world is not always a nice place and that you are afraid for her (and you should).    But you can't show her that you trust her if in fact you don't trust her.

On the other hand .... if you DON'T keep your mouth shut and this dirty secret locked in your heart ... and you DO let it be known that you know what you know ... she'll deduce HOW you knew.

And then what?  What do you think will happen then?  The point being that ther may come a day after when she is in DESPARATE trouble.   In TERRIBLE need of the strongest shoulder she's ever known to rest her head on.   How do you expect her to ever come to you ... knowing in her heart that she can never fully trust you?

Stop monitoring her mails and her IMs.  Trust her.  She deserves it ... and from the way you describe her, she's earned it.

PS:  Daughters are Gods punishment on men .. for being men.

You Write:

She is 16 and still learning about life and the asshole the populate it. Hell, she can't even drive by herself, vote, hold a job, marry or drink in public. All these acts are restricted to her and so is her privacy.

Speak AS part of the asshole population ....

But trust has to start somewhere.   Evesdropping on her phone conversations, reading her emails and IM's should have tapered off some time ago (as she showed good judgement in how she conducts herself) and completely stopped by now UNLESS there are outward signs of problems.

Next year, she'll only be 17.  The next year BARELY 18.   The Father's mindset won't change until she's somewhere between 21 and maybe 50 - she'll still be his little girl and woe to the man that causes her pain.

Michael ... I don't mind the invasion of privacy.   It's the violation of TRUST.   Not from a father.  There are too many overtones in a father / daughter relationship on every emotional and sexual level for her to learn at the age of 16 that THE most important man in her life can not be trusted to not violate her.  Because at this age ... and for god's SAKE trust me on this ... it leads to trust issues with men that the girl has to live with for a lifetime.

What I was trying to tell Oh_Jeez is ... that it's not ABOUT what's best for her today-right now- thins second.  It's about what's best for her for THE WHOLE REST OF HER LIFE.

Jeez .....

I wish you'd posted an Email address.  There's more here than what we've barely covered.   But in any case, best of luck to you.

-- Modified on 9/3/2003 1:33:13 AM

I too snooped around my kid's computer, just looking at the history file under IE.  On my 18 yr. old son's computer, I could see he joined adultfriendfinder.com, no big deal, heck he's an adult at 18 with raging hormones.  But he also went to some websites that I'd put in to the category of something like bigdicks.com.  I know he's had gf dates so I know he's not gay, so is he bi?  Not sure, maybe he was just curious, but it did make me think twice about invading his privacy.

the voice of reason and the only correct response!

We are obligated to be parents first & foremost, can't even tell you how many kids WISH and beg for some guidance and more than that DISCIPLINE and that's from the kids!  They need a leader and look to their parents for that.

How many horrible national events will it take before people get this?  Those parents of the psycho teens had NO CLUE what their own kids were up to and were absolutely shocked when it came to light-they chose to instead stick their heads in the sand

so you saying daddy should give it to her or you should?  EIther way I think you are pretty sick, someone must have done bad stuff to you as a child for you to thin such vile

I agree that intruding and concerned parenting is a fine line. I think you should ask questions about who her friends are, where she is going, when she will be back. Insist you meet her friends!It might be enough to diswade some of her potential behaviors.

Give her a cell phone and ask her to call at prescribed time. BUT let her know you trust her!!! your reason for the new rules are all over the news, you are concerned for her safety and you want to know she is alright!!!!! (As arnold said, the hours between 3 and 6 are the danger zones)Sorry for the reference

But i agree that passing out the condoms might act to encourage the wrong ideas. Hiding from what you know will only cause the potential for un-necessary pain. Asking questions will plant the seeds for future relations.