This was a good article but I have several beefs and comments.

1 - Myers-Powell said some girls believe prostitutes are all drug addicts who stand on street corners and have pimps. But Raphael said the Internet is making that model obsolete because it has created an instant community with instant access.

"Customers no longer have to drive up Mannheim Road or call an escort service," she said. "They don't have to sidle up to the bellman in a hotel or even visit a sleazy website. Craigslist was good for that until they shut down the erotic services section."

However, similar websites remain, and Raphael teaches a class in which she and her law students monitor chat rooms.

"It gets a little disgusting because these guys are really pornographers and pedophiles," she said. "They share their experiences and rate the girls. They talk about how the pictures posted by the traffickers often don't match the girls they meet in the hotel.

1 response - Are these comments targeting all of us?  If so I would venture to say that MOST OF US DON'T KNOW that we may be getting trafficked women to be with us.  By trafficked I mean underage or sex slaves brought here against their will.  To the extent that a woman MIGHT UNDERSTAND what she is getting into and that it is NOT ABUSIVE, this in NO WAY SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.

To that end, we hobbyists should avoid using Asian Massage Parlors and street walkers to avoid a supply (and therefore cut off demand) for such women that are having their basic rights violated.  And the odds are highest in these groups for these women to be in.

2 - "But if you read those comments (in the chat rooms) you get a good idea that sex trafficking originates right here in Chicago and there's a large industry," she said.

Because of the Internet, the underground nature of sex trafficking and the way women are moved from state to state, it's impossible to know how many girls and women are involved in the industry.

"In 2000, which was a long time ago, we estimated that there were about 15,000 girls and women in the sex trade in Chicago," Raphael said. "But that was before the impact of the Internet, and we can't say what percent of those girls were trafficked or controlled by a pimp.

"The only way to really decrease sex trafficking is to decrease demand by arresting customers."

2 response - This is closely related to classical feminist bullshit.  GOING AFTER THE POSSIBLE DEMAND IS WRONG!  GO AFTER THE SUPPLY OF ABUSED TRAFFICKED WOMEN AND CHILDREN.  Otherwise you punish legal adults who make A LEGITIMATE CHOICE ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR BODIES AND THEIR MONEY.  Don't join or support an anti-freedom police state.  It's un-American.

If you are this playwright or one of her law students, or law enforcement feel free to respond to my comments here.  Don't bother sending me messages because I can't read them

I don't think this is the same, but the other day I was flipping channels and on a basic TV Chicago channel, a lady was doing a speech about another popular website message board. It was public access TV type of Channel, and she was really studying the other site, and had a graph about the usage of it between the City of Chicago and Suburbs. That's crazy - you never know who is watching what goes on in our "boards".  

I definitely agree that guys should try to patron less with girls that are being exploited. Movies like Human Trafficking make me sick to my stomach. I can only imagine what the young girls go through that get wrapped up in the scheme and trafficked. It is terribly sick, and the reason why in our day and age prostitution cannot be legal. Or at least, the only reasonable argument against it.  

Part of the reason that I am a provider is rooted in my feminine beliefs among other things, of course.  

This is a great topic, and something that I don't think gets discussed too much around here....I look forward to reading people's opinions....

Over the summer, when that pimp and madam in Chicago got arrested. The newspaper article said the pimp would urinate on his girls, in order to show his control over them, when they fucked up. I am sure his girls were in the group of girls on BP. The article said they only charged 150 an hour. You really have to be careful in this world, you never know what a particular lady that you visit might be dealing with when you leave. And sometimes, I think many guys forget that... Of course, you don't want to think about it because then it can mess up your "fantasy" but ... how can you not wonder? Especially with AMPs and such. Some of those girls aren't necassarily there on their own free will, and that is crazy fucked up.

-- Modified on 10/8/2013 6:35:36 AM

Great response! Newer feminism believes that women who are adults and make choices of their own free will should be able to be providers. Crimes are committed with telephones and computers all the time. That does not mean that these devices should be illegal. The crime should be illegal. The same is true with prostitution.

-- Modified on 10/8/2013 9:26:07 AM

I think the odds are good if she charges less than 300 per hour, she is being trafficked or abused against her will. I personally would avoid these.

Yeah- that's pretty messed up.  

But I'd caution against presuming that women in AMPs are all trafficked. It borders on racism, really, if you think about it. I remember reading that some group in NYC got all the papers to stop running ads for escorts and services that appeared to be "foreign"- so they no longer ran ads for Asian, Russian and Chinese workers. Really sad. We have to be so careful that we don't lump everyone together.

I would imagine you simply pulled it out of your ass, just like the "journalists" that don't have a fucking clue as to what they are writing about.

Sarah makes a great point, but doesn't go far enough. This attitude about AMPs doesn't "border" on racism, it IS blatant racism and is rooted in ignorance.

FWIW I have been friends with, and/or dated dozens, if not hundreds of AMP ladies, and not a single one was here against their will. Let me ask you, how many AMP workers do you know? and where do you get your facts about AMP's?

*holds hands above head in surrender*

You are right that is lumping. I'm sorry. I am not trying to be rascist or make assumptions in any way shape or form.  

I just know - from what I have seen on TV, that sometimes the women in parlours - whether asian, white, brown, black or PURLE are usually "trafficked". It seems that the girls that are here and don't speak english and work FOR SOMEONE and not independently, might be exploited. But - Let me retract my statement, about AMPs because I am sure there are TONS of legitimate ones.  

I was just agreeing with the part of the article, that said that if we stop patronizing the girls who are doing it against their will, that it will probably slow down some. But I guess, for everyone who does care and think about whether or not they are there against there will - there is a bunch of guys who do not care.  

 
And yes- I pulled 9/10 out of my ass. I was using it as a phrase, not necessarily a statistic. I did not mean to rile you're guys' goose feathers! Like I said, I am drawing my opinions from the movies I've seen, TV I've watched, and books that I've read on the subject of trafficking, and I have no personal knowledge or experience with it, so my opinion could be light years off. But I definitely am not trying to come off as rascist or someone who believes stereotypes.

Ok ok! I fixed my statement!

END OF MESSAGE

I would think that someone who is stereotyped by those same sources of information you use, ie movies, tv shows, even the evening news, would have learned not to trust those sources where it comes to matters of P4P.

The problem with simply regurgitating so called "facts" that you get from tv is that it reinforces stereotypes that are quite damaging. Don't you think the ladies that work at massage parlor need (and deserve) customers just as much as you do? Who do you think is going to be harmed the most by the boycott of massage parlors?

It's not that I don't care about trafficked women, it's that I do care for the willing participants in this world of ours, and they are the ones most harmed by the blanket condemnation of ladies either on the lower end of the price range, or of foreign birth. For someone who doesn't believe in stereotypes, you are quite guilty of reinforcing them. That's why my "feathers are ruffled"

To help put into perspective how wrong they usually are:
http://www.datajournalismblog.com/2012/05/08/sextraffickingdata/

Sex trafficking sells. There have been many movies, stories, articles, etc, all salaciously written to sell using these horribly skewed statistics as the basis for the plot. And the governments of most countries dole out money like candy to organizations claiming to "fight trafficking".  And the poor ladies at the AMPs get thrown under the bus because nobody bothers to think beyond the OMG factor. And it's not just the AMP ladies- many escorts get caught up in these mass stings too.  

It is understandable that good people get caught up in this hysteria; the specter of a woman being forced into sex repeatedly against her will makes all but the most jaded among us angry and horrified. But we can only hope reason steps in at some point and good people will stop to question their assumptions. -- Modified on 10/8/2013 10:38:46 AM

I think most of us are savvy enough to know there's lots of bad shit at work in the world.  But I also remind myself of the agendas at work in these reports, lectures,  news items,  etc. I don't recall seeing a MSM report on prostitution that didn't go right for trafficking,  pederasty, drug abuse or some other horror in the first paragraph or first two minutes.  As we know from this board and elsewhere there are actually a substantial number of adult women who have chosen this enterprise and who are not subject to the wicked attention of a pimp or pusher. But that story is not nearly as scandalous--and therefore headline grabbing--as a story that suggests your teenage daughter may be snatched from your arms and rented out by a pimp in some flop house.   I think the people who refuse to acknowledge the reality of sex work may actually do the victims of trafficking and abuse some harm--focusing LE resources on transactions between consenting adults not only misdirects those resources it also creates a false sense of achievement by making Joe and Jane Lunchbox think that busting a high end escort agency somehow strikes a blow against the real evil in the system when it probably won't.

You know, that's not necessarily true. Avoid whomever you like for whatever reason you like, but remember that force/coercion happens at every price level. Remember the story about the high-end lady in Vegas who was being coerced?

Not only that but I know many ladies who charge below 300 who are not being coerced...

I been doing my own thing.  How you?

I have worked in strip clubs all over Atlanta, for agency's, and for myself for the last few years.  I have never seen trafficking at all during the time I have worked in America.  I do believe it exists but at a very low rate.  I believe that much of the trafficking hype is just hype to sell more advertising, more law enforcement $$$, and to get more donations for non-governmental originations.

I also worked in Thailand as a VERY young 18 year old.  I paid a carryman to facilitate my entry into Thailand from Burma and to introduce me to an employer that would allow me to work in their club in Pattaya Thailand.  I knew mostly what I was getting into and was overall happy with my choice.  It was a lot better than starving.  That is considered trafficking.

Most of the girls that I knew from Burma, Laos, Russia, and Cambodia came to work in Thailand for the same reasons and the same way.  We were all "trafficked"!  What a load of garbage.  Again, to be honest I imagine that there were some who were trafficked against their will but I never met any and I got to know quite a large number of the girls working in Pattaya, Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza in Bangkok.  Of course if the money was right I am sure that most of us would have been happy to tell some news crew any sad story that they might want to hear.

Yes,  most of the sex workers I know would be doing something else if they had been born in to more affluent family's.  That is undeniable . . .  but how many men would choose to be ditch diggers or construction workers if their family's had been able to send them to college to be engineers or lawyers.  

Yes I very well might have made different chooses if I had been born into a more affluent family but I do not dowel upon it nor do I appreciate it when someone in the media try's to make money selling stories about people like me suggesting that we are all powerless . . .  Because we are not.

I was very young at the time but I was not stupid.  I did have other options.  I am sure that most of the "so called" trafficked persons also had other options also.  You play the cards you are dealt . . .  That is life.

Most of the garbage I see on TV is exactly that . . . garbage!

Great post!

I've thought about this business a lot for decades. Whenever I read an article about prostitution, the subject of drug addicts comes up. The complaint is usually along the lines of, "female drug addicts have no choice but to resort to prostitution to support their habits".

I'm sorry that they got addicted to drugs and have to resort to doing something they may not like to support their habits. However, I'd rather they engage in prostitution than armed robbery or other violent crime

There's no way to know who is and who isn't being coerced thanks to illegalization of the whole industry. P That's a general price point I've chosen.  Truth is I probably choose more based on a variety of factors including whether the lady is on a relatively secure site like rs2K or p411, claims independence and sounds relatively smart.  But I have no way of knowing in every case.  I avoid backpage if they aren't on rs2K or p411 too.  Better way to avoid LE busts too.  Yes I avoid AMP's.   Probably a lot of great non-coerced ladies there but I don't know.  Unless someone can make me some good recommendations I'll stay away.  I think LE probably is focusing more of their efforts there too, probably with good reason.

While the chances are no greater the ladies is doing this against her will than any other agency type woman, the AMPs are definitely "low hanging fruit" and raids on them are commonplace.

I will confess, I do get my back up a bit because of the racist tone when people suggest avoiding AMPs, but the facts are the facts, and the facts are that AMPs are subject to more than their share of raids, and while being paraded out in cuffs on the evening news for all to see would only cause me a minor inconvenience, to a married man, or someone with a high profile job to lose, it could be devastating.

and you are also correct that the fact that prostitution is illegal makes it tough to discern who might be doing this against their will. One way of course to know for sure is to spend OTC  with a lady, no pimp or sex trafficker is going to allow their "property" to give anything away for free. and yes, I have spent time with literally hundreds of AMP type ladies outside of their place of employment, there is zero chance that any of these hundreds of women that I have known personally could have been victims of forced trafficking.

I'm good.  Don't post as much as in the old days but I'm having fun.  Good to see you back. You used to put up some funny shit.

want, regardless of truth, in order to sell more newspapers. Media sometimes hides behind "unnamed sources" so who really knows the truth.

Someday this will go away because there will not be any newspapers other than what is available on the internet.  

Note to self--If I ever remotely think the provider I'm about to see is being trafficed, I will not make the date.

Yep- best reason so far. Same good reason to avoid unverifiable BP advertisers, etc., and I also 100% agree that criminalization makes a lot of people in the industry more vulnerable.

Sadly, the cops and media are probably the most racist for targeting amps and other minority communities. When this really becomes outrageous is when the plight of hundreds of missing and murdered First Nation women goes virtually ignored by LE. Unless, of course, they are being arrested.

and it was quite racist in nature, but now it appears as if they have done such a good job brainwashing the public that even hookers and johns buy into their bullshit, trafficking is alleged in almost every case that used to be a simple case of solicitation.

I mean just look at the very board. I am not picking just on the posters on this thread, but if you do a search of this board over the past several years you can see just how effective the media has been in brainwashing even fellow hookers that the trafficking problem is a thousand times worse than it actually is.

When people weren't hating my ass.  Good times back then.

Moreover the term 'trafficked' implies abuse according to the MSM.  It's not abuse if you know what you're getting into and agree.  It's feminist bullshit to call it anything else.  This is why libertarian philosophy should take over the world.

We should be far more informed about the press on our industry.

-- Modified on 10/8/2013 11:03:34 PM

Superb post from one who knows.