because you are a hobbyist or provider?

If not, why not?

If so, why?

Ego dystonia (the state of acting in a way that is not consistent with your own best self image) is a very destructive force. It bends and shapes and twists a personality into knots. The internal stresses it creates can lead to all manner of disfunction and even physical ailment.

Seems to me that it would be prudent to be really clear with oneself about an undertaking such as hobbying or providing. Take it seriously. Work it through.

I should note that I have met providers who were obviously painfully ego-dystonic, and others who experienced providing as powerfully self-actualizing, and fully in accord with their highest and best self image.

Since I asked, I will answer.

No, I do not feel bad about being a monger.

Partly because I am not afflicted with the dominant western superstitions with their bronze age world view.

Partly because I have been trained and conditioned to be a borderline psychopath LOL

And partly because I realize that everyone who works for a living is being "exploited". If you are not making yourself useful to someone you are not earning any money. Try putting your sweet tushie in harms way for military pay and talk to me about exploitation LOL.

I was raised/educated under the umbrella of the 'Good Book'. My experiences with organized(oh man here comes Gambler.lol)religion has left a very sour taste in my mouth. I still hold true to most of it's precepts and princples.


I'll hold off on claiming personal failure/triumph.

The way I see it, you're going to pay for it one way or the other. We just cut out the middleman is all.

And the 'middleman' being in the situation that we have to go out for dinner, drinks, a show of some sort, blah, blah, blah and MAYBE get some?!

Granted, I still do these things with the ladies. But I KNOW I'm going to get what I'm after.

But mainly, I've always did what I wanted to do. Or could do, without harming myself or someone else in the process preferably.

I work hard and I play harder. I don't have anyone to leave my shit to when I go to the big hobby-land in the sky because all I have are Hoss and Joe and I'm taking them with me. 'Taking the boys for a walk' will be inscribed on my tombstone.

But yeah, for the most respect, I don't give a fuck what most people think of me in the firstplace. So why feel bad about doing something I enjoy and what others think?

Fuck 'em!

Our society and mores makes us feel guilty.A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman. We should enjoy what life has to offer and not be dragged down.

Why would I feel with what makes us Human?

I feel bad though that providing is not legal. It should be.

In most European countries, providing is legal.
No L.E. scare. In most EU countries, the only thing illegal is pimping.

Even though I consider myself a moral person and at times, even a religious person, I don't ever feel guilty for this in the slightest. In fact, it goes as far as I can't really understand why others ever feel guilty about it (both providers and clients alike) and I don't understand why society has such a negative perception on it. My therapist (who is a woman) feels the same way as I do and we talk at great lengths about prostitution, both in terms of ethics, the law, and society's perception on it.

That said, I'm single and I've never cheated on an SO by being with a provider. If I ever did, I would definitely have a tough time living with myself.

the time of my Life...since becoming a Provider...Why should I feel bad about myself...I have met the Greatest Guys...that I would have Never otherwise met...I am having Fun...and Enjoying sooo much Pleasure...the only thing I feel bad about...is that this lifestyle is Not accepted...so it's my secret life...why is something so Wonderful considered to be so bad...doesn't make sense to me...it's OK for me to go to clubs and meet a stranger and have a one night stand...but Not do this...I see No difference...well accept I get a little bonus...lol...however I have to admit...I do like having a secret life...it's kind of Exciting...it's like leading a double life

Good thing too

Why are you on this board? The whole pseudo morality thing is a promoted by morally inept religious people to control and manipulate other humans to their will and benefit. Any action would be immoral if:

1. Force others
2. Take advantage
3. Lie and cheat to one's way
4. Misguide someone intentionally
5. Commit crime against someone
6. Steal someone's wife, girl friend, etc.
7. Have sex with your best friends wife, girl friend, etc.
8. Have sex with minors

Two adults enjoying each other for money or anything else has nothing to do with pseudo morality imposed religion, period.

and i aside from my internal sense i also have the charts and graphs to prove it.

i am doing very well with my current mode of hobbying which is clearly working extremely well. certain physical symptoms of stress are disappearing. the last year has been astonishingly good for me thanks to s very special few.

i may have made some mistakes in my first year, but i am very comfortable they were due to inexperience and were well intentioned on my side at least. i do have some question about a few ladies not in my review history though but enough of that. so while those mistakes may be cause for reflection, they don't stress me out.


tangentially:

i am also not subject to the current western world view. but it is not comparable to what the bronze age European world view used to be. the bronze age european world view was more varied perhaps.

all current world views with regard to sex were forged in the bronze age. there is nothing new. the same views just come into and go out of fashion. at least that's my opinion.

After reading the OP, I was thinking how I was gonna word my reply.
Then I read your post and now all I have to say is:

Amen, Brother! (stiffling, religious pun intended)

Even the nastiest of murderers believes his act to be good.

Ergo, the fact that I might be perfectly okay with something doesn't mean it is good.

is good:

a universal Idea? (Plato)

a societal convention? (social contract theorists)

an individual determination? if so which individual gets to choose?

and what about self awareness? there are folks who are relentlessly self critical of their own faults. but doing that on a public messae board is like inviting the piranhas to dine...

many questions of ontology and epistemology involved...

of where a provider or hobbyist experiences themself on a self awareness curve with ego dystonia at one end and self actualization on the other.

Ultimately I do not subscribe to notions of ontologically self defined good and evil. Nor am I a relativist or a

For me, what is "good" is what nature / Karma rewards, which is always a matter of some shades of grey vs black and white, and which is sometimes but often not the same as what a society / culture reward.

Maybe this is strange..but I like the idea of being hired..lol Even just for dinner..makes me feel special.

Hang Myself!!!!

at times, but like everyone else we rationalize what we do to be ok.  And yes that brings up the question of what is good and bad, who decides.  Most of us know this, the society that we are raised and live in, our religion, or maybe we just make it up.
I would guess that the majority of people hide this activity and there is some some for that. Sex is good not bad, it just has it's circumstances.

Naturally, I didn't define good or bad.

The fact that I can justify something doesn't mean that, in the long run, it is in my enlightened self-interest.

However, I DO believe that the way I hobby is ultimately in my self-interest and does not simply constitute hedonistic whim-worship at the expense of future well-being.

Unfortunately, like you, I was trained to be able to do things that would give people nightmares and still sleep well at night.

So that's a mess I'm not going to try to untangle.

Who are you hurting? I understand you to be a righteous, upfront, stand-up guy.

You're obviously intelligent, and very well spoken.

You're respected, and respectful in return.

How can you make an analogy like that?

That's just fucking wrong. Sorry, buddy, but I say that was just fucked up.

is the five prime years I lost when I was married. I dream about all the great times I missed out on. Now, I'm trying to catch up!

When we're playing in the hobby, we're playing in a place beyond society's rules.

That makes it incumbent upon us to figure out our own.

It is only by my willingness to question myself that I can make sure I stay on as righteous a path as possible within the hobby context.

I certainly HOPE I am hurting nobody, and helping many!

But it never hurts for me to put myself under a magnifying glass once in a while and make sure.

I am very new to this, only one time so far with my second coming up in a few weeks. I don't know if I will change my mind over time, but for now I do not feel bad at all about spending time with a provider.

My wife became very ill five years ago,and we cannot be intimate, have not since then. I love her very much, and will always be here to provide for her and take care of her and our daughter (adopted a few years before she became ill.) I will never have an affair, because emotions could get involved. For me, and I assume others in my situation, this seems to be an almost perfect solution. I get what I need to remain a relatively sane person, with no strings attached.

The only thing I could feel guilty about, if I am not careful, is the money I spend. I am not rich by any means, and like everyone else, have obligations and people that depend on me. I need to be careful about balancing my "needs" and my obligations.

We are all born KNOWING right from wrong.

The people and experiences we choose/endure while 'growing' serve to cloud those truths.

Isn't going to be a popular opinion i'm sure.

Just sayin'! You remember what we used to do to ants way back when!

 1. I am a 57 year old,short,getting bald,overweight(but getting lighter all the time thanks to the late DR. Atkins)
 2. I never was handsome.
 3. I work 60 hours a week at a skilled trade job so I really do not have time for a "civvy" relationship.
 4. I have been single all my life.
 5. I noticed that all the guys that had low pay or no job at all and treated women like shit got to have all the girls they wanted.
 6. Was a virgin until 4 years ago.
With that being said;NO I do feel badly in the least.These wonderful ladies have given me a new least on life.This isn't love or romance,I have no illusions on that but it is nice to have a gfe a few times a month.
AB

It's not what I do but the fact that I have to hide it and make up excuses all the time. It becomes far to easy to lie.

My mother always told me as a child " your nose will grow every time you lie ". I come from a family of English big noses so that scared the shit out of me growing up. My nose should be so long by now you could drive on it for hours and never see the front of my face.

Kisses Haley

I don't because it's mainly for the money, I feel i'm good at what I do. Maybe I'm also great at compartmentalization. I plan to have a career after this and I don't do it full time and more often than night I like the sex.

I am single by choice. I see providers because I don't want to sneak around on a wife. I don't look down on married men who hobby because I realize that had I married on a few instances where that was an outcome, I would be in their shoes.

Your situation sounds a little tough, but you're handling it right. Good luck.

we are born knowing only pleasure and pain. both can cause suffering.

if we choose to try to be clear and objective about minimizing everyones suffering then we can begin to get a handle on right and wrong.

but we never get it "right" we just get it better if we are willing to look outside our own skin.