All I can say is NEVER give out personal info to a provider! Use references or p411! You’ll get burned otherwise!
Just curious, but have any providers ever had clients that were constantly* using them for a reference and how it was handled? Did you just ghost the provider requesting the reference? Did you politely tell the former client that you are pushing the envelop and this will be the last time, unless you pay? Something else?
I know etiquette says you shpuld ask providers before using a reference, which I do (in person after appt), but it can be tough if she has trouble remembering you.
It seems more and more providers are requiring references so if they want two references (for example), then it seems kind of messed up if they refuse to be a reference in the future.
Unless they make it clear there is a fee upfront to be a reference, which is always an option.
*constantly = several times a month
I never would accept any reference from anyone that I do not know personally in real life, so references is a waste of time. I do my own vetting. I don’t need to know how he was with you. Vibes are different with everyone.
If someone is abusing your friendly referrals tell them to send a gift, or token of appreciation for your reliable references. It’s really that simple. You post on your website your policy 1 free referral & $50 each time after good for 3 months, or 6 🤷🏽♀️ it’s your business you make the rules. CEO
#1 - Does my client want me to share details about our meeting?
#2 - Providers are they legit? 🤔
Giving a reference takes time to verify it’s not fun & should never be free.
…if you require references to see a client, then you should provide them as well…maybe 1 or 2 free within six months, but after that, make it clear that a tip is required as there is too much effort to search records and so forth…
i have no internet presence so the “selfie with id and linkedin” combo many providers request doesn’t work with me, so references are all i got and it has been tough to see some of the higher end ladies…
thank you for your thoughtful response queen
I think you fail to realize the facts.
The selfie 🤳 with you holding your id 🪪 is to verify you are who you say you are.
I don’t go on blind dates. Nor, do I trust anyone to screen for my safety. References do not do criminal background checks. P411 means nada to me.
Everyone is different. You asked & I answered. I won’t waste my time again. Best of luck. Do you.
-- Modified on 12/20/2025 1:06:57 PM
In my personal life, I don't get in a car/any version of "private" with a guy without getting a pic of his DL (along with a pic of my outfit) and scheduling it to send to a handful of trusted folk in 12hrs (also with an alarm at 11hrs in case things are going *really* well.🤩) Idea being if I'm alive, I will be able to delete the email and it's not broadcast. If the date is a planned vs spontaneous one, then I get the DL beforehand and do my usual background check... and I still put it in a scheduled email.
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This is simply the world we live in and how we stay alive🤷🏻♀️ And it's how I've had some absolutely amazing experiences, met some fabulous men and safely get a bit of my adventure quota filled.
I've always been low enough volume/connection oriented enough that I could give references from memory for well over a year if you told me the guy's name and the city or time frame he saw me last🤷🏻♀️ Not too tough to do when you operate your biz a certain way and have a certain type of personality. I cannot fathom charging for, or not responding to, reference requests.
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Now, the longer it's been since I've seen you, the more likely I am to remind the lady (after I've verified she's indeed a reputable, verifiable provider herself) that because it's been X long since I've seen you, I can't necessarily vouch for how you might behave with her but that at the time of our meeting you were Y type of person (loud/silly/energetic, or soft spoken/dry humor/deep convo, etc) and to double check that the you've no more recent references available.
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The selfie/ID is for safety... if you've a worrisome history of being violent or reckless, it's public record.
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But anyone can throw a LinkedIn together. Shit, I swiped 22 aged company LinkedIns, built them out and added content, added 4-25 employees each, plus built and SEO'd their websites and GMBs, plus Facebook pages with content for the company, founders/C Suite and a few employees each in about 6-7wks during Covid. So having that stuff is nice but isn't impressive, nor is it a hinderance if you don't. What matters more are your business filings with the SoS, IRS, D&B, BBB and the like. Well, and a few other checks-n-balances... You shouldn't have to rely on references if you're not trying to hide easily verifiable, legitimizing information.
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Just be a good boy and play nice... so we can play nice😇 ... or naughty😈
(general implied "you", not personal)
-- Modified on 12/20/2025 4:29:31 PM
I posted elsewhere on here that I have scrubbed the Internet of most of my deets with a service called DeleteMe. The only thing that comes up when you type my name into Google is a website that mentions my current employer.
I have had more than one provider ghost me, presumably because they could not verify me. Actually, one still wanted to see me after telling me I was non existent online so even though her website said references were not needed, she asked if I had any and luckily the two ladies came through.
One of those ladies that provided the reference only required a selfie as screening when I booked with her. I can only assume she doesn’t care about cops and probably had a bodyguard or pimp in a nearby room in case things got out of hand lol.
I always assumed luxury high end gals paid for some kind of background search service (do they exist?), but I guess not since such a service is bound to find my information. Maybe they wanted an independent confirmation of my selfie?
I am considering p411 but am still struggling with the contacting my work aspect of it lol. I work at a job where nobody contacts me on the main office line so a phone call from P411 would arouse suspicion.
Would DeleteMe be able to scrub court records for things like arrests, convictions, T/ROs, criminal traffic issues, divorce or custody proceedings?🤔
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If you have an employer registered with the SoS, does that employer have a website and email? Are you allowed to send an email from your work account to an anonymous, random email and say something innocuous? Is your extension listed in the company phone tree and a call could be placed after hours and ring through to your desk?
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Maybe you are as much of a ghost as you say. I dunno.🤷🏻♀️ I don't see a ton of folks so I don't have a ton of experience chasing them. But I think that unless you're in witness protection, it doesn't seem too terribly difficult to reasonably assure myself that you're not an axe murderer or someone with a vested interest in misconstruing the time we spend together (no one looks good in horizontal stripes).
Your data from data harvesters or aggregators. Court and other public records are not covered by their service. Here’s a list of the 700+ sites they scrub …
Absolutely right but it would be quite an undertaking to search through court records in every state looking for a name. In many cases those court records are by county, making the task pretty much impossible.
For continued good luck! If I have the info I ask for then it's usually less than 20min on that particular portion of screening - digging through public/court records that would cause me to pass on a gent, or tick the "not an axe murderer" box. I can't say my method is foolproof, but it's kept me safe thus far without feeling particularly onerous.
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And honestly, the most tedious and time consuming part of screening is/has always been clearing his references. That's why I always appreciate having them *in addition* to ID/Employment. If I've been able to do the rest of the process and then find myself waiting 3+ days for reference responses, then I'll likely not bother with them. References are only important to me IF the gent is a bit dodgy with his other info and I'm still on the fence (which sucks for me/us but some guys have been burned and are understandably reticent to share PII).
Curious if you see many married persons? This is all fun and games until it’s not.
As I tell my kids, never put anything in photos or writing that you wouldn’t show to your grandmother and teachers! Look what happened to the Coldplay couple.
I’m sure if I was you I would do as you do!
Good Day!
If that's part of any provider's screening I'd be surprised.. Because, why should they care? And why would you ask?
Odd. Damned odd.
Nicky, baby, I may not be psychic but I am smarter than the average bear... and nicer, too... and more fun to roll around with😘 And all that means people feel unusually safe with me😇
And it's guessing because I don't screen particularly for that or keep stats on it... I'd guess that about ⅔ are married. Yes, sometimes I do come across TROs, company dissolutions, marital property, etc in screening but mostly it's something that is volunteered either in screening or during intermission.
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As for how being married might effect screening, if it comes up that he's a man of means who is separated, or has a significant public presence for business/entertainment/politics... I usually pass. Guys that are in sticky domestic or professional situations, especially when they're "known", very well may have PIs/paparazzi after them and it's just not my jam to get caught up in any of that.
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I've been married 4 times so the experience of a sexless marriage or mismatched levels of desire, conflicting with having genuine care for/companionship with the spouse or at least the duty of care to them/children, is something I'm intimately familiar with. There's zero moral judgement and if anything, I'm *more* particular about making sure there's no scent to linger, that they've got all their items before they leave, that we're a little more cognizant of the time and other small things to help guard their peace. The more peaceful a friend's work and home life are, the more likely he is to be able to see me again. There is ZERO upside for me to there being any sort of tension, let alone drama, in his life. It's really pretty selfish of me, actually...🤭
so DeleteMe does not scrub criminal or court records…i am not concerned about that as i have neither lol
and the one website that comes up does not havr any pictures…it was clear that the one provider that rejected me was hoping for some way to confirm my selfie and id to an independent source like linkedin or a website for an employer with pics or a social media profile…
that is not practical for most people because not everyone cares for linked in or social media
i can receive emails at my employer but if i send emails to addresses like BBBJQueen@protonmail it will set off alarms lol
i have had emails sent from my work address to my personal email address quarantined…had to clear it with IT first.
phone verification at my employer is impossible since we have private lines and nobody calls the office lines. i know prividers verify by calling the office line and asking for “cxx” and then hanging up when they confirm he works there
i know most people dgaf about this but i want providers to be aware of issues that come up for otherwise good clients due to overly restrictive and unrealistic screening methods…
Maybe I'm forever the optimistic pragmatist; I have a funny feeling that where there's a will, there's a way😉
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That being said, your point of ladies missing out on "otherwise good clients" is valid, even if I disagree with your characterization of the screening methods you personally seem to think you cannot pass.
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You know what else we're missing out on? For me, it would be the risk of having the first legal interaction *this century* (haven't had so much as a traffic violation in over 28yrs). Or the risk of being robbed, assaulted or killed. Those are pretty hefty risks compared to losing out on one particular ghost of a *potentially* good client.
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We also miss out on those *potentially* good clients when we have deposit or screening policies of any sort (someone somewhere will claim to be a perfect client but be unwilling to give ANY PII or send a security for the date), or for that matter, rates anywhere above FREE (you do see how much whining there is about damn near every price point, right?).
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So yeah, it's a bummer when a guy can't/won't participate fully in whatever policies a lady has. Both parties lose out. But the loss on the gent's side is private time with his choice of partner. When compared to the potential loss on the lady's side, it becomes a no-brainer to do whatever it is we each feel offers us the most protection balanced against the most opportunities.😇
I hear that. There is always "the next one" if her screening is not acceptable.
But I was genuinely curious about what the etiquette for references considering so many providers will not see anyone without them.
"Search records"?
Now would these be the same records that providers claim to destroy after an initial meeting?
Those records?
The first GFE provider I saw was a well known touring provider from Mn. who used Miss Betty as an assistant. Asked if could use her as a references her response was “you most certainly can but beyond a couple hope to see you again.”
Feel this is fair and have followed this ever since.
Used provider references to join P411 and never have issue.
Always felt the reverence system was mutually beneficial.but ten to fifteen years ago there was a lot of board banter but a lot more mutual respect and professionalism then there is today.
I think you’re right that a provider who requires or accept references should be willing to provide them as well.
I don’t have a hard and fast rule about how many times and willing to be a reference for a prior client, but what I’m noticing is that what feels fair is about one time per half hour two hour that he booked. So, if someone saw me for a half hour one time, being asked to be a reference more than once feels intrusive and inappropriate without some kind of compensation offer. If someone books 2 hours, I don’t mind giving a few references.
This is probably a "One Out"....however----several years ago I set up an appointment with a provider that traveled the Southeast----she may have stopped now....but.....she insisted upon references from other providers I had seen....so I did as requested/required.....so....I was "Approved" and arrived a little early-traffic was light-- at an Embassy Suites in Atlanta--so I waited in my car until the appointment time---I was about 20 minutes early-----as I sat in my car a Ford Expedition pulled in and parked about four cars over and in front from me....it was said provider and her driver...an older man....she took a carry bag with her and hustled into the hotel while the driver got the rest of their luggage.....at appointment time I texted her to let her know I was there---she texted back that she needed a few minutes---I agreed---but decided to go to the lobby to wait for her to text back....while I was in the Lobby I observed the "Driver" picking up various items in the gift shop---he never noticed me----after about 15 minutes she texted me the room info and to come on up...did so---session was okay----but kinda rushed---preoccupied---etc....2 hour session....at the conclusion we said our mutual good byes---and I asked if I needed a referral would she provide one.....Funny Part was----she told me she didn't like to give referrals but that I should contact her for another session! So....kinda makes you wonder about the referral business---we had no negatives in our session---other than I had to wait---but I understood more than she knew (she never saw me while I was in my car---she was very preoccupied getting her stuff together----and I never mentioned me seeing her arrive etc...I imagine others are pretty much the same way----wants em' but doesn't like giving them---takes $$$ out of their income !! (I Get It) !
I don't see most of your post as being at all relevant to the issue of references.
I am just wondering how the fuck you remember so many unnecessary details about a hooker date you had 2 years ago? Her driver bought items at the gift shop. It was an Embassy Suites in Atlanta. You were 20 minutes early and parked in your Ford Expedition 4 cars down from her. She brought up the carry on bag and her driver brought up the rest. WTF?
*She required references to see her but does not give them out.*
That is all you needed to say. I got out my red pen and cleaned it up for you, Tolstoy.
I am reference friendly and I don’t mind giving after one session, although I am transparent when giving my references as to my degree of experience with a particular client. I did have one client who used me repeatedly for references which might not have been such a bad thing except this continued for years. I was always honest in my replies explaining that I saw “Bob” one time for an hour 2 years ago and was surprised he was still using me as a reference. Personally I might consider that a red flag.
Get p-411 and you don't have to deal with this. P-411 providers can see and, contact all of your OKs once you contact them. For others who don't have P-411 you can easily send a snapshot of your Oks to their email easily . I have never had a problem seeing providers outside of the envelope of P-411 this way. You will also find most of the good well reviewed ladies are already on P-411
A reference is basically me putting my name on you; vouching for you. I’m usually happy to do that for clients I remember well and had good experiences with, but it’s not an open-ended thing.
A few realities from the provider side that might help:
• A reference carries risk. If a guy turns out to be a problem with another provider, my name is now attached to that introduction. That matters.
• It also takes time. If I’m getting “can you vouch for me” messages multiple times a quarter, that’s admin work, not a quick favor.
• Memory isn’t disrespect. If I saw you once a year ago, I may not instantly connect the dots, especially without context.
My personal rule is pretty simple: up to two references per appointment, within 6–8 months of your last date with me. You must ask me before putting my name down and tell me who I’m releasing the reference to. That’s not me trying to keep tabs on you, it’s basic OPSEC. I’ve had people’s partners pose as providers fishing for information, so I don’t take that lightly.
And fellow providers, when you request a reference, please include something in your email signature or the body of your message that allows us to verify you as well (website, socials, links to reviews or P411, etc.). That protects all of us.
If I start getting several requests from the same person, which to me means several times a fiscal quarter, I’m either going to say no and ask you to use your most recent references, or I may consider asking for compensation for my administrative time. Needing to constantly come back to me when I've already given two references is a red flag to me.
One more note on P411. While it can help quite a bit, I’ve seen an increase in the number of “okays” tied to inactive provider accounts or "okays" that are well over a year, sometimes two, old. At that point, I still have to find another way to verify you. The only time I’m inclined to look past that is when someone has multiple okays from the same provider (there will be a little star on the account). If she kept seeing you, that tells me more than a single stale "okay".
Best practice for clients is pretty straightforward. Ask politely. Be consistent. Keep a couple steady regulars. Don’t treat providers like a reference vending machine. If you move well and respectfully, your references usually take care of themselves.
Ah yes the little hold star...
We get a hold star when we've gotten one okay along with 4 updates from the last in question.
I have close to 90 okays and many are years old. Either the lady has retired, I didn't feel the need to keep seeing her, or mostly it's because I've moved to a new city and can see some ladies again. I have a good number of recent okays and don't see a need to delete my oldest ones.
Back when I had 10 okays one lady refused to see me after looking at my P411 profile because she said I seemed to be "a player" whatever that means exactly. LOL. I'd be curious to know what a provider's take is on a large number of okays.
“I’m not a playa I just fuck a lot”
-Big Pun
This is a good question! A large number of okays on its own, isn’t inherently a problem. Longevity as a client can be contributed to moving cities, providers retiring, travel for work... all of that is normal. I don’t expect anyone to delete their history, and seeing older okays doesn’t automatically read as a red flag to me.
What tends to matter more to providers is recency, pattern, and usability. An okay from five years ago doesn’t carry the same weight as one from six months ago, simply because people change, circumstances change, and memory fades. If a provider is inactive or unreachable, that okay can’t actually function as a reference which means I still have to do additional verification work on my end.
Where it can start to raise questions isn’t volume, but signal. Specifically, when someone has many okays but struggles to produce a small, recent, reachable set when needed. That’s usually less about being a “player” and more about whether there’s continuity or consistency in how someone books.
I personally believe that 1) a long history with a few steady providers (re: anchors) over time reads so differently than a long list with no recent anchors and 2) a couple of current, solid references almost always matter more than dozens of older ones.
I’ll also be transparent about my own preference: I’m not looking to be a one-time stop. I prioritize long-term regulars and continuity, and that naturally shapes how I screen. From a client’s perspective, those dynamics usually come with real advantages! Think less friction over time, better rapport, more ease around logistics, more relaxed and personalized experiences, and often better access and flexibility down the line.
Different providers will weigh this differently, and that’s okay. There isn’t a universal rule here. Most of us aren’t judging volume. We’re assessing the signal you're putting out there. Give a clear, current signal, and the rest tends to fade into the background.
Besides what goes on behind closed doors, many providers render lots of services: obtaining a room, a meal, reservations, travel and transportation, calendar management and follow-ups, which include references. In service industries, service providers usually have "terms of service," which might be, for example, the number of minutes per month you get on a phone for X dollars, the services your certified masseur will provide, or the number of downloads you can get from a site.
Paige's example of a couple of references within 6 - 8 months of a visit is a great example of a very useful term of service because it clearly sets expectations. Gents, it's part of what you're paying for, so understand what you're getting.
I was thinking some more about this and if you write a review, you should be entitled to more than one reference in a six month span since new reviews are more valuable than old ones.
it is hard to quantify, but i would bet if the last review a provider had was in Sep 2025 and you post a glowing review on Jan 2026, she may get an uptick in clients who were reluctant to book due to lack of new reviews.
i think thats fair
I want to gently clarify one point here, because I think this is where client and provider perspectives sometimes talk past each other.
A review and a reference aren’t the same thing, and they don’t operate on the same timeline.
A review is optional, voluntary, and public-facing. A reference is private, risk-bearing labor. It’s a provider putting their name behind someone in real time, responding to another provider, verifying context, and in a way sort of accepting a form of liability if something goes sideways (calls into question their verification practices if something goes wrong). That obligation exists whether a review brings a provider one booking or none.
I think there is this unspoken assumption that a new review has an immediate impact on bookings. That isn’t always true, regardless of rate, aesthetics, market, etc. Many providers don’t operate on short-cycle, review-driven funnels at all. Between repeat clientele, limited volume, private lists, social presence, and word of mouth, a review can be amazing but not materially change anything in the short term. It can take months for there to be impact, if any at all.
Because of that, it’s hard to standardize the idea that writing a review should automatically entitle someone to additional references. Providers have different volumes, memories, risk tolerances, and administrative capacity, and different client goals.
Personally speaking, I appreciate thoughtful reviews, but I don’t view them as creating an ongoing entitlement to my time or risk. They’re separate lanes. That’s why I frame references around recency, clarity, and limits (you receive 2/date to use within 6 to 8 months after seeing me). Not as a reward system, but as a boundary that keeps screening functional and fair on both sides.
I'm fine with that. I understand that it is impossible to determine if reviews increase traffic or not. I also get that many may not want more traffic because this may be a "side hustle."
At the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is that if references are becoming more and more standard in the industry (like deposits), then providers should consider mentioning their reference policy on the website. I have only seen two do it - one said she wants $100 and another said flat out that she doesn't give them and doesn't use them. I believe queen bia said she only trusts references from providers she knows personally or something to that effect. All fine by me if that is the preference of the provider.
BTW, 2 references per booking in a 6-8 month time period is very fair and reasonable imo.
Why don’t more providers whitelist here on TER?
If you okay on p411 what’s the difference?
Isn't there a big difference, according to you? Since you don't believe in P411 or their Okays and do your own vetting so Whitelisting shouldn't matter either.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to respond if it doesn’t apply to you.
I participate on p411 by okaying people regardless if I require my own vetting, or not.
-- Modified on 1/2/2026 12:14:01 PM
That said, we as clients do make it harder. As a provider, your name is out there and matches your TER profile. Finding you is easy. But as a client, I'm asked for my real name, not my TER name. I have seen a few who have a box on their booking form for TER handle. I never provide it. I have found some who ask for it want to see that reviews are all high and only positive. Since my reviews are honest, I have both low/bad and high/good reviews. I don't want a provider not seeing me because they expect only high reviews. That has to be earned. So, a provider needs to work harder to figure out my handle.
When I read a potential client’s reviews I am not expecting all high scores. Instead I am looking for fairness. If there were low scores there should be a fair justification why those were given. I am fully aware that all providers aren’t perfect and bad sessions occur. Too many bad reviews are a red flag though. This suggests the client is either choosing poorly or doing something to negatively affect the sessions.
What I do look for in reviews is an idea of what the client enjoys - to know we will be compatible and this can help me tailor the session to make it better for them. I also look for behaviors that might be a hard pass for me.
Review history can be a useful screening tool.
As a client, unless you explicitly state this, I don’t know how you will approach my reviews. There’s a variance of why a TER handle is asked for and what is expected from reviews. I know providers who ask for it just so they can immediately screen a client out because they don’t want any more reviews. And, I am aware that there are ones using them fairly like yourself.
I had a provider who’s only screening requirement was my TER handle. No id. No selfie. No references.
At the time, I had one review under that alias and I told her that but she said it was ok.
Being very new, all of my warning signs were going off vut thankfully she was well reviewed on here so the session went very well.
And to top it off, she gave me a reference as well.
I like to read a few reviews to see what sort of interactions he prefers - whom he's rated high/low for looks (do I fit his preferred "look" or am I an outlier), what sort of acts/vibes does he give higher ratings to and what leaves him disappointed, are his ratings basically in line with the others the lady has received or is he the outlier (understanding that anyone can have a bad day), is his price point relatively in line with mine or is he stretching himself to see me. This info has never DQ'd anyone, it just helps me know what I might want to focus on to have the best date possible.
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However, if a gent has 30+ reviews and has never given a 10, it's a fair indication he's either captious and perpetually displeased, or chooses companions poorly and can't seem to learn from his mistakes, or is so stuck in FOMO that he can't live in/enjoy the present moment. Who wants to hang out with those personality types‽ And if he gives 10's out like popcorn to pigeons at the park, he may be an "easy" date but I won't connect well with him so my personal satisfaction is likely to be lower. (And yes, contrary to what some may think, some of us DO GAF about OUR OWN enjoyment in these encounters and don't simply accept anyone able to throw some cash around.)
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And then there's the liars.... I had an inquiry recently where the gent said that he's a newbie and acted the part but I was able to suss out that not only is he experienced (to the tune of over 34 reviews over 4yrs) but he's one of those perpetually displeased/FOMO types. No wonder he plays the newb... DQ.
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Also, it's helpful if their reviews show a clear preference for things I have boundaries around (BBFS or extreme domination play for example, I enjoy bottoming sometimes but I am *not* sub). But it's doubtful guys into that stuff would inquire with me anyway as there are ladies who are quite open about providing those services. If they did inquire, I think it's only fair that I'm informed of their proclivities.
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Informed consent matters on both sides of the aisle. You guys get to see what we're all about based off reviews, if you're not a schmuck, you shouldn't be worried about us seeing what you're all about.🤷🏻♀️ Everyone just want to have a good time and that happens best when everyone's fully informed.
-- Modified on 1/3/2026 12:14:08 PM
I whitelist the same as I OK on P411. I see it as a "Yes, a meeting occurred". If a lady reaches out for a reference, that's where any particulars regarding our time together that I feel may be relevant are shared. Two similar but different things IMO.
A P411 OK means the provider certifies she has seen you. There are no standards at all for a white list. I have one where I’ve never even seen the woman.
From the standpoint of checks-and-balances within the P411 system, you're absolutely correct. I can't even pull up a gent's profile in P411 if it's been some version of "too long" since we interacted on the platform, let alone OK him. I was referring more to how *I* treat the Whitelist. That's all!😇
All I can say is NEVER give out personal info to a provider! Use references or p411! You’ll get burned otherwise!
I think it’s very unfair to post this bs. I have never burned anyone. Maybe you’re picking poor providers? Did you ever think it’s your poor judgement?
If you plan ahead and do your homework here on TER by picking a verified, highly reviewed & reputable provider you only get happiness.
I don’t mind sharing my personal information with my friends. We are all very different, so to categorize us all to be the same is wrong. Unjust. I am very sorry you feel all providers are unscrupulous.
I delete all information & never share anything with anyone. Blackmailing anyone is illegal and not the business that I am in. I provide happiness this is supposed to be fun not extortion.
-- Modified on 1/3/2026 7:38:31 AM