I did something recently that I haven’t done in awhile…I went to a strip club (though I have done that a couple times recently, after a layoff of about a year) and a spent a considerable (at least for me) sum of money (that is the “new” development part). I haven’t spent a couple hundred dollars in a strip club in more than 2 years…pretty much since I got to NYC.
I used to do it more often, when I worked for others, and had different business travel patterns (I think dropping big coin in a strip club in your own town is a REAL bad habit to develop). But now, since I work for myself, I tend to want to get in and out of a city ASAP, in order to keep my travel expenses down. Plus, I’ve trained myself to view every un-billable expense as verboten. And “creative expense reporting” doesn’t do anything but rip myself off…lol.
Anyway, I was in Toronto, where the strip clubs are pretty liberal (not Montreal, but more so than any US city) and where my US$ go 50% further (making that $200+ outlay more like US$150), so I was able to justify it to myself. I picked up a Cuban cigar, stopped at an ATM, went to the nicest strip club in town that I had personal knowledge of, ordered a vodka on the rocks, and sat down to just enjoy myself.
After a couple different girls were on stage (one skinny redhead, another plastic blonde), this lovely brunette came on. Petite, but not skinny, just slim (I suppose being short helped in that regard), with smaller than ideal breast, but a PERFECT little butt. Raven jet-black hair, dark skin (I thought she might be ethnical mixed, but it turns out she was Eastern European – Hungarian), blue-gray eyes (Ok, I couldn’t see those on the stage, but I could tell they were beautiful). A really, really pretty girl, without looking at all fake, or made up, or “Hollywood’’. She was the Anti-Pamela Anderson…exactly my type.
Mostly though I was stunned by sensuous she was. Most strippers think the raunchier the better, or they try to impress with their pole gymnastic skills. Not this babe. This girl had chosen Toni Braxton to dance to, and moved in a way that was the very essence of “sexy” versus “sex”. Before she left the stage I had a full on woody, and I NEVER get wood in a strip joint unless I am getting “lapped”.
Somewhat to my surprise, she sat right down next to me, versus with any of the other guys (I am used to being ignored in strip clubs – I’ve been told in the past by dancers that many strippers just assume Black men have no money to spend), and also to my delightful surprise, she had some previously ordered lunch brought right to the table, which she generously offered to share before she had even gotten a nickel out of my pocket (I declined but genuinely appreciated the offer). I did buy her a drink to go with her lunch, and then we started to chat.
She was from Hungary, had been in Canada 3 months, spoke limited English, had been at the club two weeks (I had actually noticed her on my previous visit, but never saw her on stage – back then I thought she was Latina, which is how she got my attention), and had danced before at a different club. No pressure at all for dances, just a fun, if somewhat difficult conversation (broken English, translation problems, and all that). This was EXACTLY why I go to strip clubs – just to hang out, drink, smoke a cigar, and chat with a pretty lady. She complimented me on my watch (that probably hooked me…the girl had good taste) and my shoes (she made a joke about guys and cheap shoes…lol). After a bit I gave her CDN$10 for her time (time IS money, right?) and to keep her engaged, and then told her that once she finished her lunch I would like some private dances.
One she was done, we went to the VIP lounge and oh – my – gawd. I was dead on…this girl moved like nobody’s business. Not that “let me hump you like the walking ATM machine you are” raunchy grind stuff that most strippers do (I guess because most guys like it). She was soft, slow, and sensuous. She caressed my face, nibbled on my ear, stared into my eyes. Laid across my lap like a fine piece of art, teased me by dancing out of arms reach while she “touched herself”, draped herself over my shoulders and held on like a little girl while she whispered in my ear heaven’s knows what (perhaps “you stupid f@cking American” in Hungarian…lol). It was amazing.
When she wasn’t dancing (which was often, because we agreed early on that she should only dance during the slow, sexy songs, versus “Kid Rock” and the other crap) she would discreetly put her clothes back on (oh, did I mention these were ALL NUDE lap dances?) and sit next to me, with her leg across mine, placing my hand on her hip, and her head on my shoulder. We would talk, drink, smoke (her, cigarettes, me, that Cuban), and laugh. Then, when an appropriate song would come up, she would get all bright eyed and giggle, “This is a good one, no?”. Of course it is sweetie, of course it is…
Ok…enough reliving the memory, cutting to the chase. For what I spent in that club on drinks and dances, over the course of 3 hours, I could have picked up a session with a decent agency girl in Toronto. I feel however that this was the better investment – instead of an hour of sex whose quality would have been uncertain (perhaps great, perhaps disappointing), I had a GREAT time with a pretty girl, who I got to enjoy a bit both as a person, and as a sexual being, while not actually having sex with her.
So what do you guys think? Do you think that guys who drop big coin in strip clubs (I have in the past spent as much as $400 in strip joints running up big lap dance and drink tabs with buddies) are suckers, since they could actually be getting laid for the same amount of cash? Of do you “understand” what I was feeling on this most recent foray?
And ladies, if you are around…when I FIRST got into “hobbying” what I wanted was EXACTLY this experience (well, ok, a little bit better English would be nice), except that instead of being sent home with a hug, things would end with some slow, sexy HORIZONTAL dancing, if you know what I mean. However, I couldn’t seem to find an escort would could provide that experience, so I fell into the have a drink, then wham – bam rut like everyone else. Do any of you ladies offer what I am seeking? Do you understand how to “seduce” a man first, seductively (I don’t want to just have someone jumping up and down on my lap and calling that a “lap dance” - I want a woman to get inside my head…) and then, once you have teased him enough, allow him his just reward?
Has this post been long enough, or what? If you are still around, thanks for reading, and for your reply…
-- Modified on 7/13/2002 9:38:18 AM
It always seems to be one or the other, doesn't it? You can't get the real, territic lap dance tease from a provider, and there are limitations (cramped and hurried) to getting even FS from a dancer.
And truly, this is the kind of situation I prefer. However, I've found that it's usually the _guys_ who want to rush it. I'll bet you are a fantastic lover. I'm glad you had such a wonderful time!
Love,
Anne
I am not sure if this is the Anne I know, Anne of Asheville? If so, then MLAM you need to see her rather than drop $$$$ at strip clubs in Canada.
I hope that you're doing well and that you're getting some time for some _fun_. *grin*
Love,
Anne
Off hand I am getting some time for some _fun_(Grimace). The only strips I have seen have damn planes landing on them. Need some TLC-care to volunteer for the good of the country????
Guys that drop big coin in strip clubs are suckers.
I hadn't been to a local topless club in YEARS and decided to go. I watched a friend get four table dances ($10 per dance) from a hot Asian girl. She talked w/him for few minutes then got up and left. It was a complete waste of time and money. I won't mention the money that he spent on beer and admission. My friend would get animated when providing the 411 on certain dancers along the lines of 'she'll let you finger bang her.' Ok-ay.
I recognized two dancers that were still working after 5+ years. One dancer had too much banana oil and the aroma was overwhelming. The other dancer is a big-boned girl and she appeared to be bigger than the last time I'd see her. I politely declined table dances from both of them.
I followed a typical hobbyist's pattern: strip clubs (topless, full nudity), explicit private dances followed off-the-premises private dances. A trip to Costa Rica forever changed my perspective on strip clubs. Now, I visit strip clubs to see certain adult film stars.
I agree with you 100% as I prefer the getting to know or mental versus the all physical, "you are on the clock" or "how many pops can you do" routine. What you just described is the true girl friend experience not slam bam thank you mam (sic)approach. Our mind is the most sensual part we have and that is why I prefer the intelligent women who have an opinion and will debate with you on issues, not always agree with me. I try to start each day by greeting someone with a smile, a hug or a pat on the arm or back. A frendly, not sexual, hug or touch reminds each of us out here we need each other. I am conforable with my sexuality and do not care what others think when I hug my fellow man or woman and try to do so each day. There are some women I know that I receive as much pleasure talking with them as I do having "sex".
I rarely go to strip clubs (I think I have been about 4 times total) and usually only when 'some of the guys were going for osme reason'. I really dont like them all that much.
But as far as your experience. Strip Club vs Provider. In the experience you recounted, sounds like you had a pretty good time, so in my mind it wouldnt make much difference. Six of one half dozen of the other.
I still think in general strip clubs suck (That is just MHO so no flames) but you experience shows there can be exceptions.
I hit strip clubs a lot when I travel (agree with your comment about dropping $$ in your hometown!). There are two excellent websites, tuscl.com and stripclublist.com that provide reliable reviews of the clubs. The former requires $40/yr membership, but I find it worth every penny. There are some real gems out there, but too many dancers try to suck your wallet dry and then move on. With both providers and dancers the real gems are those that have a personality that is even more beautiful than their body and know how to turn a guy on. I've read a few reviews on TER of providers that offer sensuous dance-like experiences (Like Remy here in VA, though I hear she's out of the business now).
-- Modified on 7/13/2002 11:53:05 AM
You make a very good point about how strippers tend to seduce you thru their mannerism and movement. The best seduction i've ever had was with a dancer (in my home town) If anyone can admit to a perfect woman she was damn close to it. During the dances she would look at you straight in the eyes (and thru) as if we were bonded. Never had that with a provider, probably never will. My experience is that they tend to look away or close their eyes. (i'm not old, fat or ugly, smelly, or have things hanging out of my ass....to the parties diagreeing-Shut Up )
I guessing it's by habit that providers not be part of the experience. Besides there's the money part. Seduction is neccessary for a dancer to reel a loser in. Almost as soon as you walk into a provider situation, you're out $$$ before anything begins.
The other difference i see is with a provider that you have never seen before there is much unknown. If you are a proponent of truth in details and accuracy from an ad or from what the girl tells ya, anything deviant makes the provider experience a huge letdown ("32DD, slim but once the clothes come off- 2 wrinkly over the shoulders, and thighs with enough cheese for the Norwood pizza.) At a SC, you can sit around to scout get seduced, try a dancer and if you don't like move on without much damage. Of course there's the mileage thing. I've only had decent mileage( i never push for it) once in five years going to SC- (going after the hottest girls doesn't help that either) and not with miss perfection either, damn. I understand people have different agendas going to SC. If it's mileage, a provider is a surer bet. Although from what i read, quite a few lucky dogs out have the best of both at a SC. But those took time and lots of trip before it happened, i presume.
Seeing that you appreciate the sensual/seductive aspects of a beautiful lady- it's a mood thing too though - I say go for the dancers. Although you can budget yourself by not taking that much cash with you and leave the ATM card in the car. But be careful, they can also spot a budgeted loser a mile away too (i come in shorts and t-shirts, dead give away)
If there's one thing that these ladies do very well is smell the green. If you blow your wad, it's out the door Mr. whoever you are. Time is money after all. So have some discipline keep it in your pants and make it last....then go to a provider.
I too like strip clubs quite a bit (depending on my mood). I've always gone more when I've had a girlfriend then single... But I usually go to "get away" from the rest of my life and just become an anonymous personality there where I can talk to the girls, or just watch, or get dances.
I don't usually like going with other friends, as it ruins the whole mood for me. I am very picky and in a strip club of 40 girls, I'll watch them all and only pick about 3 of them I'd even give the time of day too.
Occasionally I have been lucky and get one that happens to be in the right place in the right time, and they'll think I'm the most attractive guy they've seen for a long time, and we'll end up making out and fondling each other in a dark corner for most of the night (without paying for lapdances). But thats really rare, only happened 4 times in 6 years. Of course when it does, I feel really proud of myself and usually don't ever go back to see that girl.
But I agree, depending on my mood, I have noooo problem spending money on a an experience out in a club then a provider. Honestly, I sometimes thats one of the reasons that keeps from going to a provider more often is the fear that it will just be a "get your rocks off" 30 minutes and thats it. I can do that home with my hand and porn on the TV for free and be half as satisfied.
My 2 cents.
To me, a good strip club experience provides a spiritual satisfaction compared to a provider which in most cases is more physically satisfying. It is like going to see a drama instead of an action movie. (What I meant by spiritual is more an exchange of idea; a good time; an intellectual appreciation; a general state of bliss; not an emotional infatuation or exchange of strong feelings)
I believe the decision of go to an Upscale strip club vs. Mid Range Agency Escort is all in the current state of mind and expectation. Whether I want more of a spiritually satisfying outcome or a physically satisfied one?
From time to time, I will meet a provider that offers both spiritual and physical satisfaction. In that case she is a true GFE. Mainly it is because of the venue and legal issues, strippers rarely offer enough physical satisfaction for GFE. For a provider, because of the expectation of physical contact plus time constraint, it is better for them to just perform physically and not getting into feely, touchy, girl friendly ways. Since the session is a lot more intimate, sometimes it is scary for a provider to offer more of her true self in a spiritual exchange. (Most of them are simple human beings, not great actresses) In addition to that, unless you want to spend time in private with a stripper, they cost less in term of time compared to that of a provider. It takes time to have a more spiritual exchange; hence in general, it is easier to enjoy the companionship with a stripper than a provider. (Of course, this is valued under the guide of exclusion of sex)
I personally prefer spiritual satisfaction than a physical one. However I don’t like to go to strip clubs even those upper scale ones. I am a shy person and it is hard for me to watch beautiful women hustle lap dances on everyone and most of the time getting rejected.
The strip club I had the most experience with is MBOT in SF. It is wild, wild west in there. Since this is not a review forum so I will skip the detail of my last visit. In any case, last March when I was in SF house sitting for my friends, I find a couple beautiful girls (9 rated) working there. I spent $$$$ + .8 on each of them for 40 minute private booth nude chat. With the 80s retro music and long beautiful legs across my body, I had good chats with both of them and at that moment did not want any lap dance or CBJ, HJ (yes, some of them in MBOT offered them) to spoil the mode. One of them is in mid-20s who is much more open to various activities. She is saving up money to buy a house in Idaho. The other is new to the business and actually had a quite but emotional argument in MBOT with a jealous but most likely manipulate and deadbeat boyfriend earlier. All in all, I spent a bundle that day, but I have a wonderful time. (I am sure I am a sucker in the eyes of most of you.)
I do find a couple providers in LA that offered true GFE and once in a while I enjoyed more talking to them that the actual sexual acts. To me, multiple pops is not a big thing.
Just my 2 cents.
Have not and will not ever go to a strip club again after having discovered this hobby - 5+ years ago. Unless it's some type of social situation - e.g. bachelor party.
Two reasons: I remember a show on HBO a few years back 'G-String Diaries' (or something like that). Only saw a preview of it but the women were very anti-male. Of course the providers could also be too. But at least they're offering 'total satisfaction'. I feel like I've was teased many times by dancers, up to and including the 'I might see you outside of the club' game. Secondly, my friend lives in Dallas, where Strip Clubs are huge. He lives in an upscale apartment complex where many dancers also live. The stories they tell him are scary. Men are strictly walking ATM's to them.
One more thing - I've never had a provider make me buy a Diet Coke for $5!
There are rip-offs in every profession. Stripping is no different. Sitres like TER and tuscl.com help us avoid them and find the diamonds.
You are right, but I wouldn’t say NEVER…you just have to know the game...
You’re information is dead on. I know this because 1) I saw the same HBO documentary… and 2) I have actually dated a couple dancers.
It is very true that A LOT of dancers are lesbians and / or radically anti-male. Both my “friends” told me of how they had to watch themselves, because many of the lesbians were quite predatory, and would harass the straight girls. They (the two dancers I dated) both also did a fair amount of “male bashing” themselves…sometimes unconsciously (which I would usually call them on) or sometimes about a guy in particular, which was typically venting of some sort that needed to get out.
The reason for all the above is because stripping is not easy (not meaning it is rocket science…but you knew that). Many, many girls who go into only do it because they feel that they have no other options, and they hate it. Combine this with that fact strippers see men at their worse…drunk, rude, possessive when not obsessive, taking money out of their kids mouths and giving it away for cheap thrills, or stealing from their employers, and you can see where their contempt comes from. Then there are the guys who think they own a girl because they gave her 20 dollars, or think that they are the savior every stripper has been waiting to meet. Strippers allow themselves to be judged by and pawed on by strange men. It robs a woman of her humanity…bit by bit, which is why the younger of my two “friends” stopped dancing when she finished school…she found that she had come to hate the job, men in general, and herself.
How do dancers combat this? Well, that is the 2nd thing you spoke about…they dehumanize the Johns / clients instead of dehumanizing themselves. They see what they do as strictly a job, and you as strictly a “walking ATM machine”. Dancers joke about it when they find REAL suckers…”regulars” who come everyday / week like clockwork, with their paycheck in hand. Those poor bastards are INCOME…and they COUNT on you coming back, so they will tell you ANYTHING to keep you coming. I have heard first hand what ASPs think of such guys...and it isn't flattering.
So…even with all that, I still like a positive strip club experience. You just have to know the game.
A) Never go when the club is going to be MAJOR busy…Friday or Saturday nights after 8pm. Too many guys with too much money – if you want ANY love, it is gonna cost you – not just because there are so many other guys with money, but because there are so many other girls, so YOUR girl has to hustle in order to “get paid”…no time to BS with you. These nights are when SOME girls make the most money…and when SOME girls do the worst, because they don’t know how to hustle and work the room and the guys.
B) Never pick a girl based just on looks. The “best looking” (meaning the ones that look the most like strippers…fake tits, blonde hair, etc.) are the jaded pros. They actually MIGHT give great lap dances, if you like them raunchy, because they will do anything to get paid. But they are old pros, and for them you are NOTHING but a paycheck... They know EXACTLY how to keep those $20 coming out of you, and when you are broke, they are gone. The best girls are the ones who have been dancing long enough to get good at it (versus being shy and nervous) but not yet jaded...3 to 6 months on the job. They also tend to be brunette, flawed in some tiny way (small tits? large butt?) and as a result feel self-conscious about competing for attention in a room full of other “so perfect” girls. These girls are more likely to appreciate your kindness and generosity.
C) Never get dances from a girl who isn’t willing to sit and chat for a few songs to get to know you first. Smart girls know that you can make money one of two ways…lots of different guys, lots of dances, or two or three guys in a night, lots of dances from each. The jaded girls go the former route, because they just don’t want to be bothered with you for more than a song. The newer, but smart girls tend to go the latter route. However, you have to send a message that indicates you aren’t JUST wasting her time, so I usually will tip a few bucks for each song she sits, until we start with the dances, and continue to do so between dances. Just a buck or two per song…or $5 or $10 for each three song set. Just enough to show her that you respect that she is working, and this is how she feeds herself.
D) ALWAYS tip extra…if it is $20 a lap dance, tip $25. The girl will be LOTS more appreciative, and will be glad to continue to sit with you between dances, versus looking for a new sucker. Think of it this way…you can buy 3 mediocre dances, or two GREAT ones. Also, be generous to your waitress, and she will send the “nice” girls your way (and trust me, she knows who the “nice girls” are…). She might even bring your new dancer friend free drinks versus that $5 diet coke (has happened to me many times), which your new dancer friend will appreciate as well.
E) Keep your hands to yourself, at least for a song or two, even if the rules allow you to feel her up. No girl likes to have a total stranger grouping her. If you let HER show YOU just how much she is willing to bend the rules, she will be grateful and let you have a little leeway a few songs down the road. The key is – can she trust you, or does she have to worry about you being some freak / creep that she’ll have to peel off of her? Earn her trust, and you will probably get all the cheap feel you can handle in due time.
F) Stay sober. Have fun, but nothing scares a dancer more than a drunk, because she doesn’t know what you might do before the bouncer gorillas arrive to save her ass. Girls actually DO get hurt periodically...and as a result, dancers are wary. If you are drunk, again, she can’t trust you. And if she can’t trust you, all you are is an ATM Machine…
Do these things work? Well, it depends on what you are looking for. I don’t think these things, or anything save for very large sums of money, will guarantee you will get laid by a stripper if that is what you want. But, they SHOULD add up to a good time / value for your money, assuming you were planning to spend a decent amount anyway. They worked for me…well enough that I have dated two strippers, and had a girl in Dallas like me enough (I was a “regular”, but I was only in Dallas like once a quarter, so it didn’t get out of control) that she once spent the entire evening talking and drinking and dancing with me, for free, just because she was working at a new bar, and felt intimidated and was glad to see a friendly face.
Another long post, but I hope I’ve shown it IS possible to have fun at a strip club, if you ARE willing to spend SOME money, and you know how to play the game…
You hit it on the head.
I hit a club I'd never been in before this past Wednesday evening and sat at the bar for 45 minutes checking things out, then at the rail tipping EVERY dancer (hey, it's only $1 and don't you think the other dancers notice?) then picked the ones that seemed the most friendly and got some great lap dances. I've always leaned toward small-breasted dancers, and maybe you're right that they feel inadequate and go out of their way to give better dances. My experience has been that the 10's are generally not nearly as much fun -- I think they feel all they have to do is rub their big tits on you and you should be happy.
I also agree with you're comment about not groping the dancers. Let them get comfortable with you first and in the long run you get much better mileage. I had one dancer at a Houston club after an hour or so with her in the VIP room ask me if I was LE because I wasn't trying to squeeze her tits or pull her g-string aside. So I asked her to put a tit near my mouth so I could prove I wasn't LE! We must have spent 6 hours together, most of it chatting, but by the end SHE was the one pulling her g-string aside, moving my fingers onto her snatch and putting her boobs in my mouth (32A's -- see paragraph above!).
Bottom line is, just like with escorts or any person for tyhat matter, the golden rule works. Treat them right and they'll treat you right. If you end up with a rip-off, pay them what you owe, thank them but just don't let them pressure you into any further errors.
-- Modified on 7/13/2002 8:13:03 PM
Those are some good "rules to live by" for strip clubs. Here are some more suggestions of my own:
* read up on the clubs on the 'net before you go. The Ultimate Strip Club List is worth the investment ( http://www.tuscl.com/ ) and has been on the web for umpteen zillion years. Strip Club List is free ( http://www.stripclublist.com/ ). I find both to be pretty accurate. As always, remember to read into the commentary a pretty significant concern for WHO is posting.
* dress upscale, and don't think of the place as a "lap dance McDonald's" where they just roll ya through, grind after grind. Instead, try to give as much as you get. Wearing clothing that grates on the dancers' inner thighs is a major no-no -- jeans are therefore a mistake. Khaki's actually aren't much better. Not only for the issue of lapping comfort, but for the issue of being a "cut above" the men the dancers love to hate, there's NOTHING wrong with showing up in classy business casual -- VERY expensive shoes and pants go a long way to impressing a dancer.
* remember that you ARE a wallet with a man attached. Dollar tipping is the norm in most cities, and if you resist, you'll be viewed for the cheapskate that you are. C'mon, add it up. Another $10 of singles can last you an entire evening, is totally a cheap investment, but makes you seem like Croesus himself.
* get her going. Her horniness is largely contingent upon mental images. She is already an expert on distancing herself from the situation, and on putting herself into a mind frame that helps her to perform her job. So, she knows how to fantasize effectively. Lead that fantasy verbally. Dancers have ALL loved it, when I've asked about their excellent sexual experiences and asked them to come to the private room to "relive" them with me. Mentally, is what I meant by "relive," but sometimes physically is what I get.
* everybody's a little bit "bi." The observation that many dancers are bi-sexual is, I think, somewhat accurate relative to the "normal" population, but only if you take the statement at face value. A little probing thought, suggests to me that basically a lot of beautiful naked people of EITHER gender in a room together all night, would lead to a lot of liasons, and to a willingness to muddy traditional roles in those liasons, regardless of whether males or females were involved. These people are already living on the edge of society's "approved" status, and on the edge of sexuality's "regular" roles in pair-bonding of the "public" sort. If you were physically hot enough to be a male dancer, and you were grinding your cock on strangers crotches night after night, in a room with some people who looked good enough to be models, you'd probably discover your own bisexuality quick enough as well. Heck, I'd fuck Hugh Jackman ... ;-P ...
I think both can fill either roll. I know I can have quick sex here in a San Francisco strip club. I also know I can get a slow seduction in the same club. Escorts are the same. I can book a girl for an hour and get a quicky, or I can book an evening and get a slow, sensual seduction. Of course, when you have a particular approach in mind, you need to make sure you pick a lady that knows how to do it right and you need to let her know what you want from her. To me, the difference between an escort and a strip club is how far in advance I have to plan. With an escort I have to book ahead. With a strip club I just check the schedule and see who is working that night.
Falcon