I am a Canadian myself. Most Canadians support George Bush and the Allied forces. We are not participating in the war because our Prime Minister Jean Chretien realizes that we have no national defense to protect ourselves from terrorist attacks. Plus he is from Quebec which is a province that seems to side with France on every issue because Quebec wants France's help Quebec when they separate from the rest of Canada. This explains why Montreal fans boo the American National Anthem during hockey games. Approximately 80% of the Canadians that I know stand behind Bush and the Allied troops. American and Allied forces have more supporters than they think. Canadians are terrified of Saddam and that is why our government will not stand up too him. We have a population of 30 million and we do not have enough troops to protect ourselves against terrorist attacks nor do we have the weapons to do so.
I feel for you. There's nothing worse than being represented in policies you don't agree with.
Sadam reminds me of the neighborhood bully who terrorizes even those in a nice neighborhoods.
Keep your chin up, America has and will always be a forgiving nation.
Hard for us in the states to put ourselves in your shoes, and visa versa I'm sure. My admittedly way oversimplified impression, though, is that part of this is a classic case of "guns or butter". You guys have national health insurance and we do not, we have a huge defense budget and you do not. I don't know what your income tax situation is, but isn't that, coupled with our relative national deficit spending policies, a big factor. Agreed, you guys are 30 mil and we're 350 mil and our GNPs are way different, but like many countries doesn't Canada rely on our apparently bottomless armament appetite as an excuse not to have one. That's part of what hurts -- so many countries hide behind the U.S. to foot the bills in protection of mutual "infidel" lifestyles, but these same countries consider compassion as strictly a one-way street leading outward from our shores. Not that we need anyone's sympathy, but sure would be nice to have understanding that each and every U.S. taxpayer and combatant sacrifices for the common interest of capitalistic democracies everywhere, and usually all we get in return is jealousy and hatred because of our overall societal successes (yes, we have massive societal problem and what country doesn't, but a significant majority of our citizens enjoy personal liberty and protection and live pretty good lives). And in practically all cases, maybe all, the underlying reason for knocking us is that we are following dictates of our national self-interest, same as Canada and I'm sure every other country and ethnic group since the beginning of time. The difference, and it's huge, is that U.S. actions are tempered by that same compassion we never see in return, and thank goodness for tht, because if wrong in our thinking and for better or worse we have the capability to cause havoc pretty much anywhere in the rest of the world and that is an exceedingly heavy and frightening responsibility. So thank you for your comments as an individual Canadian citizen who at least has thought through the advantage you enjoy by way of our obsession with liberty and world safety. If the UN isn't going to do the policing job, and it is long proven that that organization is as subject to individual member self interest and any other group, then we in the U.S. seem to have no choice but to step forward. Right thinking people everywhere should pray that we don't bankrupt ourselves in the process because in today's world there really is no one else to lead the battle against fanatics aimed religeously and by upbringing at destruction of the infidels, meaning all of us not buying into their sense of groupthink and subjugation to a tortuous march through our time on this earth.
Your comments are probably a bit oversimplified as you state, but I agree with your main points. I think the amount of appreciation we get in return for the amount of aid we provide to other countries is sadly disproportionate. I have my reservations about this war, as does just about everyone in the states, but sometimes there is simply no alternative. The biggest concern I have is that this will set a precedent for future invasions. Do we really want to be portrayed as the town bully? Will we then become the police force for all world conflict? These are deep questions with no simple answers, and only time will tell what really comes of all of this.
Not only are Americans not appreciated for their efforts to make this world a better place for all, they are scorned in many parts of the world as being the town bully. Many see us as a spoiled, loud mouthed, rich kid that would have a temper tantrum any time he didn't get his way. Obviously, that's not the case but is seen that way.
I am a supporter of the war to eradicate terrorism. However, I think we need to be sensitive in our presentation of our view points and not be so blatantly confident that we will be able to smash the enemy with our little finger. Politics can go a long way in helping or hurting our cause. Pride has positive and negative connotations. I am proud to be an American. I'm glad that we have the resources and willingness to keep evil in check. Very few countries would be willing to do what we do.
What we are not appreciated for is invading countries in Violation of international law. Hitler thought the Czechloslavian people should have been greatful to him for liberating them. Saddam may be an asshole, but he's not a terrorist. Besides, if having an asshole for a president were criteria for an invasion, our borders would have been massed with foreign troops around January 2001.
No Empire lasts forever, and how you are treated after you fall will be determined by your conduct when you were on top.
People who don't think any of this will matter after the war can look at the world and read their history books. NATO is in Shambles, Russia has decided that since we don't have to follow international law, they don't either, and are now selling weapons to any rogue state (including Iraq) that will buy them. Germany has repealed 98B, the part of their post war constitution that limits their military build up and weapons stockpile. The French will soon be allies with Russia and Germany and NOT us. And we won't even start with the Chinese. Soon countries that are now our allies will be using our name to justify defense spending for their military buildup. What this means is another Major world war in the next decade that we can only hope stays conventional. Wave all the flags you want, I hope for peace because I'm a patriot.
Dear usedtobemodel,
Well, said. I hope this war is not fueld by hatred and racism. Watching poor and miserable people of Iraq being bombed to pieces, while some here are chanting slogans in support, is baffling in the land of Jefferson and Lincoln.
-- Modified on 3/27/2003 4:20:40 PM
THere is no doubt we will win the military part of this engagement. The real challange and moment of truth is going to be if we are seen as a rebuilder or occupier? How we are ultimately perceived will depend on how successful we are at helping Iraq rebuild its country and offering the hope of a better life for its people. Our success in nation building is not very good (i.e. Afganastann, pardon the spelling).
I think we will need the help of other countries to help in the rebuilding process, and if we can successfully negotiate the transition from military occupying force to one that helps set up civilian and democratic political institutions, then we will have a chance at changing perceptions...
After this, its onwards to Tehran. I don't think we are that far from that city. Hell we are in the neighborhood, we might as well as eliminate that threat right now too right?? (not serious, at least yet..)
In all respect, we have been in Afghanistan for just a little over a year. It seems to me that you might be a little impatient!
We occupied Japan and Germany for many years after WWII and they seem to have come out of it pretty well!
As far as Iran is concerned, from what I keep reading, the people of Iran are about to make the changes for themselves.
It is bad enough that I have to read this crap in the daily newspaper. Why do I have to read it on this board too? There are plenty of political boards out there for you guys to post your views to.
Politics has no place on TER. Except where local politics cause an undue LE presence, etc. Cool it.
The thing that I don't understand is why protestors need to use violence to protest war. People are burning flags, looting, and destroying other's property. It is like a child throwing a temper tantrum when they don't get their way. I really believe that most protestors truely aren't angry just over war many are using the war as an excuse to vent their own personal frustrations. I know many people who protest. Many are angry over the fact that they are living from paycheck to paycheck, or they do not get along with their parents, or they have a drug problem, or they are raising children by themselves and are not getting any government support. Excuse the run-on sentence, but does anybody agree with me on this point that some protestors blame society for problems, and will use any excuse like a war to trash someone else's property. Honestly is the war really making people this mad or is it the lack of quality jobs that may be causing this upheaval. Many angry protestors seem to be university students that are largely in debt and cannot find quality jobs.
Dissatisfacton with life makes it easy to find ones self in the crowd and, under the cover of anonimity, join in collective behavior.
And Yellowfeather, I learned long ago to pick and choose what I read. You don't like the topic, don't read it.
-- Modified on 3/26/2003 4:08:47 PM
As opposed to the pro-war truck driver that threatened to run over protestors with his rig? (see link)
There's violence on both sides. From opportunists looting during anti-war protests, to the pro-war guy in TX who attacked someone who wouldn't stand for "God Bless the USA" at a rodeo.
But the vast majority on both sides are law abiding.
The money wasted by paying police overtime to ride nanny on a bunch of middle class spoiled children is shameful. That money could go to productive means.
The real agenda of the protests seems to be more bent on harming Amrica than standing up for America.
-- Modified on 3/28/2003 4:15:52 PM
Hermann Goering, second in command to Adolf Hitler said at the Nuremberg Trial: "[T]he people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Oh, and by the way Straightman, it's spelled "protesters"! Just so you'd get it straight.
-- Modified on 3/30/2003 8:40:26 PM