Bad boy,

So who's taking me to the Pat Benatar concert?

signed,
Heartbreaker. Dreamaker. Lovetaker.

Hey HB,

What date/venue are you referring to. I'd be honored to take ya!!!

well not Pat Benatar, But I do have a extra ticket for OZZFEST,  and no one to go with

sasha

Sasha, what venue??

Oh boy, I would love to volunteer, but I am sure there are already hundreds of private emails awaiting your response.

wanted someone to take her to a concert? This other provider was not only asking for someone to take her to a concert (or opera, or play) but expected the guy to buy the tickets, buy her dinner, pay for her time at the concert and then pay for the intimate time after the concert.

As I recall, there was much ado about this previous concert invite.  HB, please clear up the terms of your offer/invitation.

I'm reminded of a similar (but somehow more outrageous) post on the New York Board, where the escort in question commented that she had "never been to the Hamptons" and thus was offering a "special" on her overnight and weekend rates for anyone who had a ownership of a home / cottage / villa and was willing to invite her up. I suppose she was also open to spending time with someone who didn't have such a domicile, but was willing to make arrangement for renting one.

You know, I am always torn...should at be more amazed at the level of arrogance and conceit that attractive women sometimes display, or at the level of contempt I feel for my fellow man who has gotten to the point in life where he feels this is a reasonable offer.

I mean, what must it be like to go through life thinking that if you want something, or want to go someplace, you should have someone else provide the means, rather than making arrangements yourself? To think that EVERYTHING in life is something to be given to you? That not only are you the center of your universe, but that you reside at the epicenter of the universe of those who know you as well?

I have often noted that the mindset and arrogance of a beautiful woman is much like that of a top athlete. Both spend much of their early life being catered to while they are at the height of their powers - never acquiring the skills or the mindset that would enable them to make a way through life via their own wherewithal. In some ways it isn't their fault...so often so many literally FIGHT for the chance to do their bidding.

But, when they are no longer at the height of their powers, the "friends" disappear, as do the offers of gifts, and the accommodation of their wants, needs, desires at every turn by others. I once dated a ASP (Dancer) who, now in her mid / late thirties, had literal spent an entire life making a living simply by being good looking, but had never learned how to do a single damn thing that someone would pay her for independent of her physical appearance. She started off modeling, but when she aged and no longer could sustain her lifestyle (and BOY, was it a lifestyle...) that way, she became a dancer. She hated dancing...hated it. She felt superior to the men that ogled and pawed at her, and felt it was a waste of her beauty (it was actually...this was a gorgeous woman). Her distain for what she did, along with her contempt for her customers showed, and she never did real well at dancing (and of course, it didn't help that most drunk men in dancer bars prefer their women white, blonde and 19 years old). Her greatest fear was that she would have to move from dancing to escorting, where her genuine good looks, charm, sophistication and grace may have served her better, but where she would also TRULY lose her ability to stay above the men she catered too...

By comparison, I used to work with a woman who also modeled. A tall redhead, a Geena Davis clone. One good-looking woman, if not drop dead stunning. She had experienced some success in her career, and made a good living. But, when she hadn't gotten rich modeling, she realized she never would, and that the road was inevitably going to take a downhill path. She educated herself, made a new career, and was one of the more impressive Technology Project Managers on my team. She wasn't a genius (neither am I), but she worked VERY HARD, and used her ability to network and consensus build to great effectiveness. She was consistent, reliable and through, which in a project manager  (versus an engineer) beats the pants off of some snot nose arrogant rocket scientist any day.

Anyway...just wanted to comment that I understand your sentiment. The question is...why is this the way things are?


-- Modified on 7/21/2002 10:43:21 AM

clear enough for me - why bring up an old thread & refer to HB. She said nothing of the sort. Take me to see Pat B - period! So take her! I would if I could!

I think paying for time at the concert would be a little ridiculous. I think nights out such as this would entail the gent to cover dinner, the concert and time after. In cases of true regulars who offered support throughout the year, probably something could be arranged. For newbies looking to "hit it" (on the drums) for the price of seeing Pat sing Treat Me Right, open your eyes, maybe you'll see the light.

Thos are some very good thoughts.

Regards,

Talisman

Would you be disappointed, either a little or a lot, if the evening didn't turn out to be a profit making venture for you? If someone said, yeah, I'll take you to Benatar but I'll meet you at the door and leave you at the door, is that what you envisioned when you made your original post? Would you then go? If it is you doing the asking here, why is it all that reasonable to expect the guy to pay for dinner beforehand? Why not go dutch? Who's paying for the tickets to the show? If it's him, why not follow the usual dating protocol of if there's intimacy to be had, it's a consensual thing and the guy doesn't pay for the sex? Why not barter? Why not ask for someone to take you in exchange for something later? More questions occur to me, but I suppose that's enough cyncism for now.

Nativesonofsocal, we seem to be the only two who could see through HB and be critical of her. Anyways, I have seen plenty of escorts, and have built good relationships with a few regular providers I see. I would NEVER pay a girl to take her out to a concert, dinner, or whatever! I honestly, could not understand why people do. Trust me, if I have tickets to a great concert, great sporting event, there won't be ANY problem for me to find some cute hot girl to go with. The reason to pay for an escort is, well, you are certain to score. You eliminate the game playing and uncertainty. I don't mind paying for tickets, paying for dinner, but I have still yet to understand why people pay for escorts time to have dinner or shopping or whatever!

I would suggest if any of you guys are seriously interested in this to just pick up the phone and call Heather.  Haven't checked it lately but it would not surprise me to see that she has a phone number on her web site. I have the impression that she would not be shy in telling you what she expects. I seriously doubt you are going to have her discuss it with you on the discussion board.

Heather, there doesn't seem to be any scheduled for LA or Vegas in the near future or I would be calling you myself.

Couldn't you just ask one of your regulars if he'd like to take you to the concert and buy the tickets yourself (since it's your idea to go to Pat Benatar). The tickets listed on that site don't seem too pricey...it seems that could go a long way in public relations. Isn't there any regular you'd care to spend time with off the clock?

Exactly. I really have to question the brainpower of someone who would buy tickets to a concert for him and his "date", then PAY her for her time to eat a dinner on HIS dime and THEN pay her for her time afterwards. If this offends anyone, sorry about that but by the same token, it should.


Let's check a couple of HB's more recent posts- The one about being pick-pocketed at the 99 cent store, where she felt compelled to tell all about it here and this latest one. The store story, while plausible, is entirely too predictable however. If you were told a provider was to come on here with that tale of woe, and HB's name was on a list to pick from, HB would be the choice, hands down. Everything's been taken, I have no cards, no money, no nothing, hint, hint. Then, the Benatar post. Who's taking me, and oh since you asked, my time isn't free. Gimme a break.

I know it isn't fashionable to knock providers here, but for my money (and it literally would be when it comes to this), HB does a very good job all on her own to create controversy about herself. It's a YMMV situation of course and more power to the people that have enjoyed her, but there are quite a few other low-key, stable providers out there who are worth the inherent risk involved plus the time and money.

Not on your life am I seriously interested. And as long as she brings it up here, it's perfectly legit to have her clarify what she means here as well. Notice that once questioned, her idea of going to the show includes more than just the show and more perks for her.

I like HB's stories, the penny one is my favorite.

And I want to preface by saying I have never met HB, so I am not one of her disgruntled clients just bad mouthing her here. But seriously, from her supposedly retirement a month ago (poor Heather, no one would want to see her, but yet she couldn't take the contructive criticism TER community gives her), to then getting pick pocked at a 99-cent store. (again, poor Heather, now she is left with nothing to drive home to Vegas). And now, she has tickets to a concert but no one to go with? (Wow, poor Heather!!!)

Well, I certainly hope the guys on TER are more sophiscated than that. I certainly hope no one is giving her the sympathy that she doesn't deserve.

I have no problem paying for "escort"...like I said, it saves a lot of game playing. I don't have to take her to the movie, dinner, and then a romantic walk on the beach, before I get to take her home...However, I still don't get why guys would pay for girl's time just to have dinner, shopping, etc, etc...Sh*t, I can do that anytime with a hot chic if I am not expecting the grand finale.

As sad as it is that guys do pay for that...it is equally sad that HB would have no one to go to the concert with. Maybe there is a reason???

I'm not looking for marriage or a serious commitment. I'm just looking for fun and for me, you paying me money to go to a Pat Benatar concert and out to dinner...well, man that's FUN ALRIGHT.

Heather is cool. Adds a little color to the joint.

You dont want to pay her to have dinner with you, then dont.

I have taken a few providers to dinner and havent had one on the clock yet while waiting for entrees, but it wouldnt get me riled up if someone else did.

See through Heather? She is performance art. If you dont like it, dont watch.

There are varying reasons as to why genltemen seek the company of an escort.  You would be very surprised to learn that it isn't necessarily always about instant sexual gratification.  It is about companionship, connection, fantasy, etc.  A different reasoning for each individual.

Gents reasonings and actions when visiting a lady may not be something you understand, nor something you would do yourself, but it is their choice and do not need to be ridiculed for those choices anymore than you deserve to be ridiculed in yours.

It isn't up to anyone in this forum to dictate what is right or wrong in that regard and those choices should be respected.

Lauren

Very intelligently spoken...(you impress me more with every post...), but I'm with Beatle Juice. As I have written before, to me it is a sad day in a man's life when he feel the only way he can go about receiving all the admittedly wonderful and worthwhile thing you mention is to pay for them. I mean, what is the point in that? How can you enjoy the "companionship, connection, fantasy" knowing that it is all contrived - that this woman would be in a different AREA CODE, not even caring if you were alive, if there weren't money involved.

The single greatest experience a man can enjoy on this earth is to know the TRUE love of a woman. As I am sure you can appreciate, being as intelligent and sophisticated as you are, sex, in and of itself, PALES by comparison.

BTW gentlemen, this is why many escorts HAVE SigOs, even though they can get all the sex they can stand (and get paid for it, is that the deal of the century or what?). THEY know there is no substitute for having someone genuinely care for and about you, even when you have men who will pay for the opportunity to worship you.

The single best piece of advice my father gave me was for me to never let a woman feel make me feel that she was doing me a favor by being in my presence...by allowing my to enjoy her company. His point was that *I* am a worthy companion as well, no matter how pretty the girl, and that if *I* took the time and effort to gain some level of expertise at my craft (not be any means claiming to be an expert, but I believe I have gotten past incompetent) women would ENJOY being intimate with me as much as I did with them, and thus we could be MUTUALLY grateful.

So, having made the effort to forge myself into the sort of man at least SOME women would enjoy the company of in and out of bed, I have indeed known the love of a woman, a few times over (goodie for me, I know).

The more central point is that while I am willing to pay for the privilege of getting past all the mating ritual games that are the rigeur du jour here in NYC, and willing to pay for the occasional opportunity to get "it" the way I want it without dealing with a lot of issues and repercussions ("so why should I let you give me a facial...what the fuck is that about?" I can imagine my SigO asking...) I will be DAMN if I am going to pay somebody just to set their ass down long enough for me to buy THEM dinner, and for them to enjoy my largess in regards to a show, or concert or a weekend in the Hamptons.

None of you ladies know me (ok, a couple of you do), but I assure you, being a gentleman is a goal I always strive for. A lady whose company I am enjoying never has to pay for anything, or concern herself with anything. That is how Momma MyLife taught me to be.

But damn it, she ain't doing me any favor by being with me, so I sure as hell ain't gonna pay her for the privilege. And yes, I *DO* think less of any guy who would. I feel sorry for him, frankly...he has a little bit less of my respect as a man.

I thank you so much for your kind words.  I know it is difficult to understand.  So, I will give you an example of my experiences of what some are looking for.

A gent comes into town for business.  He spends all day in meetings and at the end of the day is faced with the four walls of his hotel room.  He knows nobody, except the suits he has met with all day.  He is tense from those meetings, frustrated, and needs to unwind.  Sitting in that hotel room won't help him.  He wants to go out to dinner, relax and forget about business for the evening, but doesn't want to be alone.  The last thing he wants to do is call any of the suits that he just spent all day with and knows in all probability that it will result in another business meeting.  Not his cup of tea at the moment.  

He is married, could go to the local bar for some conversation, but does not need the hassle from the ladies there.  (You know, the money grubbing babes looking for a sugar daddy).  He decides to call me.  A companion, more personable than what he may encounter in a bar and guaranteed to get what he wants without any hassles or disapointment at the end of the evening because he was unable to connect with someone there.  We meet, go to dinner and have a fabulous time discussing everything besides business.  He relaxes and enjoys the evening until ready to retire to bed.  We part ways and he is ready to handle the suits the following morning and has the satisfaction of knowing that I will not call him or bother him in any way shape or form until he requests my services again.  

To him...piece of mind without the hassles of what one could possibly meet in a bar somewhere. No hassles, no muss and no worries with the wife.  Worth the price to him and if he has it to spend...why not?

Just one example of many as to why someone would seek a lady and wine and dine her.  And though this is one scenario, one never knows, we might hit it off in a way that makes him more amorous (its happened)...either way..he is guaranteed that he gets what he wants without reprecussion.

A repor (friendship) is forged in this way also, but one in which certain boundaries are never crossed and understood and leads to other functions (shopping, sightseeing, etc.).  And I have been known to pick up a tab or two, for I find enjoyment in their company as well.  No SO, no hassles of the BS of love...I am not in a position in which I favor an intimate relationship and if I did, I would retire immediately.

Hope this helps in your understanding.  Your circumstances may be wholly different as are your needs. As is everyone elses, gents and ladies alike.  And by no means belittles a gent to have to pay for the companionship.  And, no, for me it is not BS and all about just $$$.  I enjoy my evenings too, for in a sense, I look for the same thing...no pain..no muss...from attachments.  That is why I do not date.  I am just not ready for it or have the desire, but does not mean that I do not enjoy the company of men.  It is a guarantee of sorts..if that makes sense.  

Lauren  

-- Modified on 7/22/2002 11:45:37 AM

Once Heather decides to post something like that on the national board, she is fair game for criticism. If she can't handle it, don't start...

Ok...that made perfect sense...  :^)

The scenario you laid out does indeed strike me as logical. It is an expensive indulgence I couldn't possibly justify, but if my personal wealth were measured in millions versus thousands, maybe then I could.

Fair enough. Your intelligence has again impressed me, and won me over to your POV (see, I can be reasonable), if you will be equally reasonable and concede me this point...

Most of your clients for extended dinner dates and overnights are NOT the type of gentleman you (ok, maybe *I*) are talking about here. A guy who truly does have more money than time, and for whom $2000 to get what he wants on his terms is no more than the couple hundred I might blow in a strip club when the fancy strikes me.

Most of your clients are regular guys who "work" for a living, and have to save up that extended dinner date / overnight fee. They are not caring out a matter of convenience; they are fulfilling a fantasy. They are substituting your companionship for the companionship of someone they WISH they had in their lives, but don't. While our hypothetical businessman is very glad to see you bid "adieu" in the morning, most of your clients wish they could afford to see you every day - wish they could see you away from "the hobby" - wish they could "take you away from all this".

These are the guys who my heart goes out to. That $2000 would be so much better invested in self-improvement, both physical (gym membership?) and social (how to course on meeting people?) so that they might secure a lasting a relationship with these benefits (wife not knowing and what have you not withstanding) versus having only memories.

Then again, maybe I am presumptuous. Maybe I am totally out to lunch. You know better than me...they are your clients.

Are you free to provide a characterization, or would that be "inappropriate"?

I, once again, must respectfully disagree. People can do what they want with their money. Your example is actually a very good one. But what is wrong with meeting some girl at the bar, even if all she wants is to get your money? Isn't that the same as what the guy would be doing calling you?

Again, people can do what they want with their money. I am not extremely wealthy, but I make enough to support the hobby I am in. It is not hard meeting beautiful girls and strike up conversations and going on social outings with them. For most people who are hobbyists, I would assume they are very successful in their careers. It is surprising that they would have to pay for escorts for social events. I have some very hot friends who I am strictly friends with, and they are my dates to many social outings, concernts, what have you; as long as I don't expect sex at the end of the night. I just can't see myself at the level where I have to pay for someone to have dinner with me, go to a concert with me, or to a social gathering with me...Ok, fine, I can even see if the girl is a perfect 10, but most escorts (the ones who most people rate around 7, 8, or even sometimes 9) are not any better looking than an average girl in southern California. Why would I want to spend that money?

Again, I just don't see the point, but again, if you have the money to spend it, more power to you. Just making my point and where I stand on this.

"For most people who are hobbyists, I would assume they are very successful in their careers"

I'm not so sure about that.

Of course, "sucess" is define on an individual basis, and only has one true judge - oneself.

However, I did try to get a better handle on "the hobby" in just this context once by asking (via a post on this board) just how many hours did guys have to work (in terms of their take home pay) in order to finance one hour of typical hobbying for themselves. Not many guys answered; of those who did, the answers varied. For me, I volunteered 3 to 4 hours. Some guys commented that an hour with an escort required a couple days pay. Other said less than an hour.

Based on the few PMs I have received from various hobbyist however, along with the general tone of many posts (even when on divergent topics), my guess is that the typical hobbyist does ok by most reasonable standards - but is not making six figures. He is an accomplished engineer, programmer. He is a successful tradesman. He can AFFORD to hobby periodically, but the truth is he does this versus something else - a choice I refuse to make. And my guess is that overnights and extended dinner dates cost a dear sum of money for him...more than he probably spends on Christmas for his kids, more than he has ever given to charity. More than he could afford to lose and just be able to say "damn", and then forget about it.

I'm not judging...all I am doing is saying that your assumption might be of base.

The posted survey on TER backs me up...60% of respondent said their income was less than 100K. Now, we can reasonbly assume some of those guys were lying through their teeth...and it would not be human nature to lie downward, that is to UNDER state. And while I am sure many wealthy TER memebers chose not to respond, I suspect the percentage of guy who chose not to respond was even greater at the below 100K level.

So...what does this all mean? Not a damn thing really, except to say that $2000 for a dinner date and a piece of ass is pretty damn dear for most of these guys, in my opinion....

-- Modified on 7/22/2002 11:23:34 PM

Or any reason to question her honesty.

What is worthless to you may be valuable to someone else. If HB can find someone willing to pay for dinner, concert tickets and her time, then more power to her. If she overpriced her companionship then maybe she'll miss the concert and $$$. No ones forcing anyone to do this. Your values aren't everyone's so no need to belittle someone for placing different values on services than you do. That's what makes our system work (ENRON not withstanding LOL)

The thing is, dear LifeAsMe, that the gents who contact us for extended visits are not primarily looking for, as you so sublimely state, "a piece of ass".

May be difficult for you to comprehend, but there are other states of consciousness in this life.

Please listen to nosc's post. She is less volatile and more evolved than i, so says it much better, AND echoes MY experiences as well.

take care.

xoxo

FF




-- Modified on 7/22/2002 9:19:55 PM

I can't say I understand what you are trying to convey.  What is a total waste of money for some, is worthwhile for others.  That you wouldn't justify the expense, is your perogative, some others do and can.  

There are to many misconceptions in this endeavor.  It is not all about, to quote someones post below, "a piece of ass" and/or body parts.  It is something else to a lot of people, including all the ladies.  Services provided by each lady reflects that. It comes down to homework.  I say this everytime.  All ladies are unique in everyway and have something different to offer.  The menu is vast (a virtual Bakin Robbins).  It is just so damn hard to figure out what flavor you want.  It is in your minds eye, no one elses as too what flavor you choose.

Lauren

"It is something else to a lot of people, including all the ladies."

I understand that...in many ways that is exactly my point.

For the guys, it is a chance at the brass ring - the holy grail. A chance to spend time with a woman who normally wouldn't even see them if he were just two feet away. And for some, this desire is so strong that they are willing to pay for it.

I understand the desire...hell, I'm a guy. I've succumb to it as well...dated people I didn't particularly care for because they very attractive. I went out with the head cheerleader in HS because, isn't that what your suppsoe to do if you're on the football team? I dated a flight attendenat for awhile. Heck, I even dated a Miss USA contestant.

The thing is, I've reached the point where I realized just how UNimportant a persons appearance is. Mind you, I am not advocating dating someone who you find UNattractive...that would be silly (and charity). But making choices based on looks...I am just glad I am past that point in life.

So I guess that is why don't understand why some guy pay to make it happen. I mean, I understand ALL the OTHER reasons you cited - and they were good ones. And heavens knows I enjoy the company of an attractive intelligent lady. I just couldn't possibly enjoy if I knew that she was only enjoying MY company because the meter was running. If you truly have more money than time, well, I understand that. But, I am still confident most of your (or most other escorts) clients don;t really fit that descripton. They spend a lot more time EARNING the fee they provide than spending it.

Insofar as the it meaning something else to the ladies - I am aware of that as well. To the ladies, its an endeavor. It is income. It is how they provide for themselves. Which is fine as well. But think may a hobbyist forgets that fact, and loses perspective...

"May be difficult for you to comprehend, but there are other states of consciousness in this life."

It isn't difficult for me to understand...

I know what these guys are looking for...they are looking for a chance to be someone other than themselves. They are looking for a chance to spend time with a pretty girl who typically wouldn't have any interest in them. To pretend that said woman finds them interesting, charming, witty, attractive.

My point is that, for me, and perhaps JUST me, this pales in comparison to putting the effort into finding someone who DOES find you interesting, charming, witty, attractive, and doesn't need to be paid to say so.

As noted in a post above by a fellow ASP…

“This may sound corny but sex with someone who cares if you are sick, depressed, happy, healthily, cranky, crabby, bitchy, or whether you live or die is different from hobbyist/provider sex.”

I wonder if the sort of guy who continually sees escorts and takes on financial hardship (however big or small) to do so will ever know this? I say it again…the supreme experience to be had on this earth is to know the TRUE love of a woman. It can’t be brought...

(Insofar as those guys who travel on business from country to country and like to make arrangements for a pretty lady in each city, I ain’t hatin’ on that. I suspect they have their money and emotions all in the right places, and know EXACTLY what is going on. I still say though, that I suspect MOST partakers of extended dinner dates and overnighters don’t fit that profile. BUT…I could be wrong…)

scratch the surface of who you are.


Oh, btw, hope you like my F-special page....

-- Modified on 7/23/2002 1:28:46 AM

Your point is one sided.   You say; "For the guys, it is a chance at the brass ring - the holy grail. A chance to spend time with a woman who normally wouldn't even see them if he were just two feet away."  Yes, that is true for some, but not for all.  That is my point.

I cannot speak for all the ladies, just myself, for there are differing view points and ideas amongst ourselves also as to why we are doing this and what kinds of gents we all meet with.  I am by no means the hardbodied, Miss America type.  As Beatle Juice stated, good reviews, but not the stealth beauty that you describe. There are many gents, as yourself, that are past the point of looking at soley physical attributes, but do tend to look at the "total package" and find that to be more fulfilling.

I will not lie to you and state that the monetary aspects aren't a motivation for the ladies.  But, I do think you sell a lot of ladies short in the idea that is what it is soley about for a lady.  True, for some it is.  For some others, it is a little more than just the $$$$, enjoy what they do, enjoy the companionship as much as the gents, and look for a fulfilling experience themselves (no matter in what aspect that is).

I take offense at your suggesting that I would sit across a table soley because the meter was running.  It is also a part of what my screening process entails, to ensure that I actually want to sit across the table of that gent.  If I don't, then I won't.  I want something more from the experience myself than just $$$$ and I won't get that from every Tom, Dick or Harry that contacts me. If it were soley for the $$$$, than I would be seeing every Tom, Dick or Harry and be a lot richer, but miserable also.

That I suppose is what is most frustrating to me.  The standard and beliefs imposed by so many as to what the proper reasoning and motivations are for all involved in this endeavor.  Those tend to be so steadfast in those beliefs, that the concept of something else all together, passes them by and in retrospect I believe that many miss out on something that can be very true and beautiful.  Very Sad.

Lauren  

-- Modified on 7/23/2002 6:02:59 AM

I understand what you are saying (I believe) and I don't disagree. With each post your reveal yourself to be someone who I am CERTAIN is a fantastic dinner companion.

I think perhaps that you misunderstand me (then again, maybe not). I am perfectly willing to accept that scenarios as you describe them occur. I am even willing to accept that this is the case for most of your clients (Only you know for certain...I tried to pose that question before - how many were high flying businessman from out of town looking for the companionship of a sophisticated lady versus "regular Joe" locals who had been saving all month for a shot at an "overnight" with the babe wearing that black cocktail dress - wearing it very well, I might add, on your webpage).

I am just not willing to accept that MOST clients for MOST extended dinner date / overnighters are these "international businessmen" types for MOST escorts. I'm just not.

Perhaps the circle you do business in is completely different than the impression I'm left with. I am willing to accept that as well. Heavens knows you appear to posses both the brains and the beauty to set yourself apart.

But can't you grant me that my skepticism of the industry as a whole, in a world where a providers will fly into town, sleep with 10 guys in 3 days, and move on to the next city where she will do the same, is not without merit? That the rarefied air that apparently you chose to stay in, above the fray, isn't necessarily the reality for everyone, or even the majority?

None of these characterizations are directed at you personally, and I am sorry you took offense. For example, I never said that you PERSONALLY were in it only for the money, and in fact, I never said that any lady was (though as you concede, we both know some are). What I did say is that there wouldn't BE a date it is weren't for the money...and that is the issue for me personally.

We will not see eye to eye on this, most likely because neither you nor a significant percentage of your clients, fit the mold of the transaction that concerns me. My only point, all along, was that for guys who spend my money on companionship, versus investing it themselves, in order to garner a certain experience, ultimately do themselves a disservice, because even under the best of circumstances, even with a lady who brings as much to the table as yourself, a "purchased" experience will come to an end. Now, for some, your international businessmen for example, that is exactly what they want. Hell, if I were a wealthier man, I'd be giving thought to coming out to California and making arrangements to spend time with you and have this debate in a more cordial fashion, over dinner and wine, so that we could both make our positions more clear and enjoy a good laugh or three when we found we inadvertently agreed on some points.

But for that "regular Joe", sigh; really, it is all but an illusion. A chance to be a "shiny, happy" person for a handful of hours before he returns to his regular everyday life. And that to me is sad. Maybe it shouldn't be, but to me, it is.

BTW...I am not sure something can be "very true" when there is money involved. Beautiful, no doubt. But I question "very true".

If only every guy was that clear about it...

But when i read posts about guys who have given significant sums of money to escorts who were "in need", who made the mistake of getting involved emotionally, who now can't chose between staying with their ATF, who BTW, thinks so much of him that she does business with him within ear shot, or make things right with their wife, I realize that not every guy seems to understand that it is capitialism...that it is business.

I never faulted Heather in any of my posts...you are right, more power to her. I wish I could do the same sort of things.

I just wonder about the sort of guy who would take her up on the offer. Will he REALLY understand what is going on?

I am not in L.A......Wrong Lauren.