This is relevant to some earlier threads, but I've not seen any direct answers on the subject.  A friend recently said older guys (e. g. retired, semi-retired, kids grown, around 60 or older) pursue hobbying mostly because they become emotionally vulnerable or needy at this stage in their lives.  I disagree, because people can be emotionally vulnerable at any age, and a lot of mature men, hobbyists or not, appear to me definitely not emotionally vulnerable.  My question: does emotional vulnerability automatically set in or increase at a certain stage in life?  Does that explain why a lot of "mature" guys hobby?  I think not, but I'd like to hear LG and interested threadsters on the subject.

This thread has a lot of potential.  
Try reposting it on The Erotic Highway board where
it is more appropriate and will get the Love Goddess' attention.

-- Modified on 6/13/2007 2:12:01 PM

I am a male in my 20s, but I have gotten to know some girls in the business well.  A lot of men in their 60s are seen as old by society, and by that age have come to terms with their relationship with the women in their lives.  I know some had older friends, and wanted to enjoy sexual experiences before they lose interest or have health issues.





The vulnerability part is ridiculous.  I am 25 and in great shape.  I am a runner and train for marathons (SF at end of July is next).  But my fiancee passed away, and this hobby helps (or hurts) me from being vulnerable.  Maybe TMI on me but I hope this helped.

10)  Cuts down on time spent in trying to have sex with a beautiful lady.
9)  Ladies I have met in the hobby, for the most part, are a cut above the civies I have met and dated since my divorce.
8)  Even if I happen to develop a crush on a provider, there are built in protections that say that I will only minimally embarass myself in my adoration, whereas in civie life, I have been known to make a complete jackass of myself...
7)  With my work schedule and occasional travel, I can see a variety of ladies and never have to wonder, would I have liked or enjoyed sex with her....
6)  I have learned that MY sexuality and sexual ability are linked to my partners willingness to participate... and in the hobby, well, they are paid to be willing.  Thank you!
5)  Providers are actually nice people, and I have met the most charming of them, IMHO!  
4)  I find that for the most part, I get honest answers to most of the questions I ask providers... I have even had answers that I did not like, but needed to hear... in civie life?  that is not always the case.
3) Hobbying is cheaper than extended relationships... with similar outcomes.
2) I really am busy, and hobbying allows me to spend the amount of time that I can afford.
and the # 1 reason...
1)  The sex is just incredible.

OH... and for those who read this more than once... notice I've said nothing about emotions... with some ladies, the emotions run high... and long.  And that my friends is not just a good thing, it is how I know I am alive.

-- Modified on 6/13/2007 5:34:06 PM

For a while there I didn't know that I'd ever spawn.

Then I did therapy, got married, had two kids, made some dough, got divorced, lost all my dough; essentially, I did it all.

Now it's time to kick back and blow it out my ass, so to speak.  8o)

I think the factor of social isolation is more important than vulnerability.

I think, past some point, one hobbies [in part] out of a sense of loneliness -- a lost love, failure to maintain worthwhile personal relationships in civvie life, to try to salve some hurt or disappointment in life, the [totally understandable] simple animal need to have intimate physical contact with another human being, no matter how it is achieved. [Personal note - my need to hobby was triggered for years by anger I could not express, deep feelings of inferiority and self-loathing, fear, frustration and  many other unhappy circumstances.  With few excwptions, I rarely hobbied because I wanted some pleasureable experince -- it was just a way to try to cope with the many hurts of life.]

For some older men, with grown and moved away kids and a deceased spouse, I can easily imagine this lonliness becoming a sense of vulnerability.  But vulnerability is no respecter of age or youth, so i think we're back, once again, to "why do men hobby?" and 'why do YOU hobby?"

I DO envy the lucky folks who hobby purely out of a sense of pleasure and adventure.  If only...

Obvious Alias has it right.  He has thought deeply about this situation and has come up with various reasons to hobby.  Yes, for me, being retired, i look for beautiful women who can provide sexual pleasure (for a fee) that i can get no where else.  It is a great thing at an older age to be able to perform with a woman who will respond to you and give you all you need (for a while, until the next time).  It is indeed a great hobby.  Better than baseball cards.

i'm not one for lists but here's  a few reasons:

1.being in my late 20's, the dating scene today is garbage.

2. i have managed to sabotage almost every relationship.

3. it's like being in a candy store, if i want a redhead, i get one, if i want a latina, i get one...no guesswork

4.  the reason i hobby now is different from my initial reasons.  i used to hobby because i felt like something was missing inside and i was ashamed i did it.  now its the opposite, i'm not alone and i do it because i enjoy it.

5. i have yet to have a bad conversation with a provider i have seen.  try that in the singles scene today

But, at least in my case, I've learned that vulnerability is one of the keys to depth of experience. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and the more we venture, the more vulnerable we are. Most older guys have experienced the loss of several relationships though divorce or the deaths of people very close to them and many have learned that the upside of forming close relationships far outweighs the downside and are therefore more willing to take the risk.

Plus, older guys typically have greater discretionary income and can literally afford more attachment/vulnerability.

I'm pretty sure I hobby because I love to fuck and my wife doesn't.

The "older" guys I have seen are not emotionally vulnerable. They have their shit together. They are enjoying themselves. I find myself explaining to younger ones that there is nothing wrong with them, no matter what the wife says. These ones are experiencing their first divorce/trauma.
In answer to the question, emotional vulnerability can happen to anybody at any time, particularly after any kind of life-changing event, and to different degrees. I find that as I grow older (I'm 46) I have figured out how to handle life better. I am hoping to continue that trend. I have seen alot of people close to me die early on. It has not made me a victim. It is the people who have had no experience with trauma or other life-changing events that become so emotionally vulnerable, if even for a short time.
The school of hard knocks that everybody gets to go through.

If you find providers on the whole better than civvie women, you have a problem, dude. And it ain't emotional, it's psychological. Wonder if your generally critical attitudes toward civvie women could be related to your divorce?

women who provide who are "more mature" are just that - "more mature" and are comfortable with who they are... they are interesting... they have degrees, and they have responsibilities... and are not afraid to express themselves...

Civies, that I date, on the other hand fall into two categories... young women in their 20's and older divorced, widowed or 'gasp' never been married women in their 40's and 50's.  First the 20's.  these tend to be flighty... somewhat searching... but on the whole, full of hope and with a lifetime of adventure ahead of them... but alas, there is a maturity factor there.... they need time.  But on the whole they are not as bad as the older women.  These are not sure of themselves, and on a whole wish to blame the entire world for their unhappiness.... and what is worse, they are not into just having a good time... they worry too much....

Critical?  I suppose.... related to my divorce? only in that my marriage kept me from dating for 10 years... so there was a gap... and in that gap, the group of women I would normally date got older.... as did I.

sad... and I hope that I am not as depressing in real life as these civie women in their 40s!  cause ALL of the women I have met in this hobby are fun loving... and almost all of the providers have their sh1t together.... and I think that is why they can relax.

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 4:50:54 AM

I am an "older" hobbyist--in my mid-60's, but I have been doing this, in one form or another, for about 25 years.   I feel no different about this than I did when I was 25 years younger--I am just more into it as I have matured.

I don't see how anyone can generalize.   In my case I am married more than 40 years, have grown children and grandchildren whom I love, and my wife still wants to make love.   The hobby is just that for me--something I enjoy doing with women I enjoy doing it with.

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 7:16:51 AM

why these older women seemed depressed?  Could it be that most of them have been hurt by self-centered exes, including alcoholics, vulgarians, and unromantic, unfeeling jerks?  And have sacrificed their youth for these jerks?  You are on older single guy (again) and could find a mate almost overnight if you needed to, but these older gals will have an extremely difficult time finding a s.o. past 40 and as the years go by, mostly because of fools like us that prefer the fun-loving carefree young chicklets. Can you blame them for being somber and a little gunshy?  If I were in their position, I'd be mad as hell at the world!  Try being a little understanding for chrissake. If you put yourself in their position, be sympathetic, and patient, and a little romantic, these gals will warm up I guarantee...As for providers having their shit together, surely you're joking? Oh, sure, what they show you in the few minutes you see them is a fun-loving, sociable side that seems level-headed and positive, but in my experience, if you scratch below the surface, and see what their lives are really like, you'll find a lot of them (not all) are really flakos and/or beset by issues. Let's get real here. Aren't you idealizing pros a little?...Btw, don't want to pry, but why did you really divorce? Was there an incompatability of some sort, and if so, what was it?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that vulnerability is not a bad thing.  I've found several friends in my experiences here, and may have exposed myself emotionally as a result on one or two occasions.  I guess that puts me at risk, but it also makes our time together more enjoyable (at least for me).  I don't see that as DANGEROUS, because there's no confusion of what the relationship is.  It does make our time together more of a GFE in my mind.

fools like us that prefer the fun-loving carefree young chicklets.  - - Oddly enough, older gals turn me down for dates, and the young chicklets ask me out!  These are nice ladies... the trick in life is to keep your shit together... some do.  So maybe I would give the older chicks a shot, but they have to let me... and they also have to lighten up.  I'm not into self-flaggelation...

providers having their shit together, surely you're joking?  - I think that I have been blessed by meeting the very best of providers.  They are together, have accomplishments, and for the most part, are very interesting people.  More important - they DO have the hopes and dreams alive.  And for the record, SOME of these ladies are divorced - but rather than hate all me, have chosen a lifestyle to embrace all men... sort of speak.  Read some of their posts on this board....   While I may not agree with all that they write, what they write, at times, is worth reading.  More than a few have served in the armed forces, gone to college, and several are single moms... soccer moms at that.  So before you say that they are really Flakos... and or best by issues... you may wish to examine the providers that YOU frequent... (I notice that the one you reviewed - received a low score from you.... why? not that it is reflective in total of you, but when that score is compared to all that ladies scores, it does seem "out of place."  

Oh, sure, what they show you in the few minutes you see them is a fun-loving, sociable side...
I have "gone out with" and "dated" off the clock some providers... know what? they are fun-loving and sociable.  Many enjoy the same things that I enjoy.  

Now, why did I divorce?  we grew apart and could not find our way back together.  We now work together to raise our kids.  Disappoints the hell out of the kids... because they have a harder time in coming between us as parents that do the kids of many still married but warring parents.

I can't address the issue of emotional vulnerability, but I know at the age of 60 and  retired, I have the time, energy, and financial means of living out fantasies I've had ever since I can remember.  I've been attracted to women with specific physical characteristics (eyes, hair color, build, ethnicity), and I can enjoy myself while I am able to do so.

You make some interesting points, and I have no doubt you're speaking sincerely, but why would older gals turn an older eligible guy down? It doesn't make sense, unless you've only tried once or twice, or unless you give off anti-older gal vibes, which you have to admit you've given off a little on this board.

What exactly do you mean by having their "shit together"?  And are you really implying that the youngins and providers are better at this than older gals?  That would mean,wouldn't it, that experience in life counts for little, and few women learn from experience?  C'mon now. Let's stop with the generalizations, and give older gals a break. They're no worse or better than other kinds of women. Sounds like the divorce has left you a little bitter, and a few bad rejects by older gals have driven you to IDEALIZE the young ones and providers. Having "hopes and dreams" and having a good time are not something that only the young and providers do. As a matter of fact, I would say the "elders" in our society have more fun generally. Have you heard of the experession, "Youth is wasted on the young"? I'm having more fun now pushing sixty than I ever did when I was a jelly-brained twenty year old. And so are many older gals I know.

Re: flakos. If I gave the impression that I believe all providers are flako, I apologize. Didn't mean that. There are many who are good, stable, sensible business women. But you have to admit that the business has its large share of poor creatures who are into drugs, have pimps who use and abuse them, and are in difficult circumstances. You may have been lucky in not meeting any of these, but the reality is that they're out there...Btw, most of my experiences with providers have been good, and I've had fun. I generally don't do reviews though; the one review I've done is from a poor experience which I felt I had to share to help other TER members avoid.  

I have to disagree with you on another point. I simply can't agree that most providers are in the business because "they've chosen a lifestyle to embrace all men."  Sounds like your idealizing or even romanticizing them again. What are they, Goddesses put on this earth to please us men from some spiritual all-embracing Soul? Yikes, I haven't heard such romantic ravings since Terry Southern's novel "Candy". They're human for chrissake. And doing it mostly for $$, like everybody else.  

Many of my male divorced friends also use the expression "we grew apart."  What does that mean exactly?  Did you just get tired of each other? Why did the original romance die? Every marriage requires compromise and give and take so what happened? Why couldn't you "find your way back again" with some effort? Or was there something missing in the first place?  Were you guys ever "friends" in the real sense of the word? Just curious. Hey, at least the kids are better off not being in a war zone. Good luck with the raising of them!  

Nice talking to you. Take care.

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 11:56:10 PM

Ciara, in the past, you've accused me of a condescending tone.  Reread what you've written and see if it sounds condescending to you.  As I am now "confused and moody," and belong to a gender that "believe what they want to believe" While others "on the other hand -- am completely aware of what [they] want and what [they] need."

Ok that is fair enough.  For the record, if you reread what I have written  - all over the place, on the boards, in reviews etc.  you will by and large find that 1) I tend to like providers who are mature!  and 2) I credit their life experiences to making them better people.  

And while I DO find civie women "less than desirable (especially older women)" it has nothing to do with their age, rather their attitude.  Again, you've really not comprehended what I've written...

As to the poster, hermes77, I would say that on the whole - reading what he has written about (granted one) encounter with a lady, I would say that I am probably more the generally accepting of the two of us.  AS I do accept folks pretty much as is.  

Fair, honest.  Finding an answer that will fit all situations, at all times.  I'm sorry, that is beyond me.  What I offer, is only what I experience and my take on that experience - no more- no less.  And as I clearly stated, I have provided ample opportunity to women my age to loosen up (and I do not mean sexually, rather just to have a good time... and laugh a bit).   Even to the point of going out of my way to be helpful to them and their families.  

As to my ex... divorce and so on... I am candid - and also throw off the exact same jokes that one can find in any "Comedy Store" cheap "B" grade comic routine.  I probably do more with my ex, than you can imagine... and I also have care of my ex's step-kids some of the time as well.  

So before you cast aspersions, recognize the stocks in trade... or are you Mr Hermes77 - a cheat on your wife?  My ex and I built some things reasonably well, and one of those was HER Career.  NOT MINE.  So I already gave at the alter.

For you both to sit in judgement of me, without offering anything of yours that is personal, I consider a cheap shot.  Ciara, you know me to be honest and forthrigth.  From you?  Really a cheap shot.



-- Modified on 6/14/2007 8:45:08 PM

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 9:02:10 PM

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 11:35:59 PM

3/25/2004 10:09:43 PM   I'm tired of all this touchy-feely, romantic, subjective nonsense.  

on comparing US Soldiers to Nazis
Posted by hermes77  , 3/21/2003 8:59:16 PM   Greywolf, I'm sorry my remarks have upset you so. I thought we were having a pretty good discussion!! I apologize for not fully recognizing some of the good points you made. I agree, for example, on holding both France and the U.S. to the same standards of conduct. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the U.S. policy and conduct was worse than other countries

Saved the best for last....
Enough of this Freudian Psycho Crap!!!!!
Posted by hermes77  , 2/8/2003 10:14:10 PM  
Hey guys and gals...stop blaming fathers, mothers, deep-seated causes, etc. and cease all that psycho-babble. All of these old Freudian-based ideas are completely unscientific and out-of-date. Life is short, make the best of the cards you're dealt, and get on with life.

Wow!  I'm impressed.

"That is very high praise from me, and while she jokes a bit, she is very attractive physically.  But more important is her ability to deal with oddities of male/female relations....  " 6/13/2007 6:11:32 AM  

I guess high praise is condescending.  Well, now I know...

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 11:36:54 PM

-- Modified on 6/14/2007 11:37:42 PM

Without some degree of vulnerability we can't establish relationships of any depth. The question then becomes, to whom do we 'expose ourselves'? Several folks here have been lucky enough to find providers who have made the risk worthwhile.