As a residual effect of the post from Old Traveler, I believe that this topic deserves a separate post...

First of all, I hope the provider in the post down below (Cat...whatever...Meow Meow) got herself some medical attention for the panic attack she had...Boy that was something... Time to call your doctor and ask for refill on Xanax if you have run out of the supplies...

Anyways, the question is why guys bitch about prepayment, and when is it appropriate...

Now, I don't consider myself a spokesperson for all the Johns, and neither should you.

That being said there are scenarios, when I would consider prepayment as sensible option.  If you, as a John, are seeking out a provider from out of town for an extended appointment, then you should be willing to shell out the money upfront, if she asks for it... And it is up to the women (hookers) to ask for it. We are not going to volunteer paying up front. At least I am not...That would be too naive.

If I am seeking someone out then its my responsibility to clear my schedule, get rid of the wifey (temporarily), take off from work for a day or two if I have to.

What I don't like is a women advertizing on the board, and when contacted asks for prepayment for every appointment....There are some high end providers that require guys to pay something like 50% up front . I don't like that. To me, if you are advertising your tour already then you should be willing to take the risk that is associated with the tour. As I didn't request it personally, most of your profits are not necessarily coming out of "OUR" time together. In my mind, you have probably figured out a way to make the trip profitable, otherwise you wouldn't be coming here. Some guys will still see you (with 50% deposit), but I wouldn't.  Things do come up at last moment,  and when guys lose their 50% of "non refundable" deposit they feel cheated. That's where the bitching starts.

This at the surface may seem to be a minor difference, but the devil is ALWAYS in the details.

-- Modified on 11/24/2012 7:24:36 PM

I also the the providers point. Most of the providers that ask for partial payment do that for first time clients, or clients that have cancelled on them in the past. If a block of time on a tour schedule is cleared and the hobbyist doesn't show up, she is out not olny that money but may have missed the opportunity for a potential new client.

On the other hand, locally I have a SD/SB type of deal set up so I guess you could say I am paying up front. It is so worth it...

Prepayment is the fundamental building block for any SD/SB deal. You are also getting discount from the provider, I hope you are, by paying ahead of time. Also, you pay ahead of time because of the trust level you have developed.

The problem with a new guy paying up front, is that he doesn't know if the woman is going to flake on him or not. In last 10 yrs, I have seen numerous posts of girls flaking on men. Remember, for them its a business, and for us its a hobby. We can't be taking MORE risk than them. If the business model ends up being such, then sadly, it will fail.

-- Modified on 11/24/2012 7:37:25 PM

I won't be flying in any providers (the only way that I would ever pay a deposit up front) and I don't pay in advance simply because I don't know the woman and I have no way of knowing if she is going to show up or not.  In all of the years I've been doing this I've never no-showed on an appointment but I've had plenty no-show on me.  That's all the evidence I need that pre-paying is not something I'm interested in.  

If I express interest in a gal and she wants money up front I simply move on.  She has a right to do business as she sees fit.  So do I.

You're an asshat

You literally just backed up my response in my earlier post,,

"Then they should of asked for a deposit" "Ladies and their poor business practices"
But as long as it is how you dictate its done then all is alright in the world..
Damned if you do,, Damned if you dont

You'll find fault in anything that doesnt conform to your way of how things should be done.

Boo Hoo if you dont like it,,, **hands Curly a tissue**
Whats great about the industry is that if you dont like the protocols that a Provider has set down for herself to run her business,, you can move to one that falls more into your guidelines..

If providers want to secure deposits for appointments prior to traveling its well within their right to do so, and if you dont want to pay a deposit then move on..
There are clients that will pay a deposit and have no complaints in doing so.

I love ignorant sweeping generalizations about women who have a strong opinion..
It wasnt a panic attack, you're just a dick and I dont feel I have to sugar coat or play nice to appease those who publicly display symptoms of  douchebaggery jackassedness, unfortunately it is a growing problem and there isnt a pill you can take for it..


I know that this may be a stretch for your tiny mind to comprehend but Its pretty simple,,,
you make an appointment, give enough advance notice if you have to cancel or show up at the appointment.. common courtesy..
K.I.S.S.
(( Keep it simple stupid ))

Meow meow

~Catrina xoxoxo

tricky subject..some touring providers need a 50% deposit from enough clients just to make the tour..no deposits..no tour..some require 50% no matter what..they can afford to tour..others cant..as we know EC falls into this category..as has been discussed the providers that dont have deposit requirements always take a risk touring..sometimes they make a profit..other times they dont..it boils down to supply and demand..the deposit guarantees the supply if the demand is not there..if a provider has 7 bookings and decides to tour and five are NCNS..she is out that money..if the same scenario applied to a deposit requiring provider..she would keep the deposit for the five NCNS clients..her loss would be a lot less..

I'm considering a multi-city east coast tour this spring and the thought has crossed my mind to ask for a small deposit (maybe between $50 and $100) just to ensure that I'm not completely wasting my time and money driving to a particular city getting a room etc.  What do you guys think?

that it is women's right to ask for deposit if they want to, and guys' prerogative if they want to pay or not.

As I said in my post, there are people who would pay the 50%.  I was merely speculating in my post what pisses of most of the guys..

And if Xanax is not strong enough, I am sure there are other stronger medications

Take it easy now...

wow Curly..she just handed you your ass..and didnt need a hat to do it..

she yells and screams doesn't mean she has a point..

Never seen her post before and has no reviews attached to her name. So she has nothing to lose, and no credibility..

-- Modified on 11/24/2012 7:42:29 PM

If I am really that much interested in fucking someone from out of town, and she is not coming to DC area, I will fucking go visit her.

If you can afford her plane ticket and hotel stay, I am sure you can afford one for yourself. This way, if she flakes out you can just find a local hottie to fuck.

IMO, I'd prepay a $50 deposit to a well-respected, well-reviewed provider who has absolutely no history of NCNS or other unethical behavior and will stake her reputation on returning the deposit if she has to cancel. I would not pay a $100 deposit to someone I've never met, that's a bit too much to lose in the event either of us must cancel. As a point of reference, this debate came up on the Chi board not long ago over a $25 deposit requirement. Guys, in the grand scheme of things, how painful is losing $25 or $50? It's a blow to the ego but it certainly isn't going to cause you major pain in the wallet.

My view is a provider should do whatever she wants and if it blows up in her face, she has no one to blame but herself. Some may have success with deposits, others won't. Give it a try and if you don't get enough bites, cancel the tour or drop the deposit requirement. There are very reputable providers and there are scam artists and there are stand-up guys and there are asshats who pull stunts. There is most definitely a lack of trust in this business on both sides which is why we incessantly debate this subject.

We've been scammed by auto mechanics and handimen and every other service business out there. The big difference is we can go after other businesses legally whereas in this business, there's no legal recourse. We're all asking each other to trust the other side and no one really trusts the other side so we argue.

Kelly, if you think a deposit helps make your trip possible, ask for a deposit and see how it goes. Don't be surprised if you get a lot of negative feedback or if the deposit requirement turns away clients who might see you without it. OTOH, no one wants a provider to lose money on a tour but trying to guarantee you don't lose might be more difficult than you imagined. Try it, if it fails, try something else.

Wow, it's funny , I was just chatting with a provider friend about your asinine post and told her..
" Now watch he'll comeback with the predictable *she has no reviews excuse* "
And what a weak and pathetic comeback with the whole "needing medication" barbs..
Obviously you lack anything creative to say so you have to deftly fall back on repetitive predictable statements..

And if having an opinion that doesn't fall in line with you makes me crazy,, then by all means get me a straight jacket

Yet , I post ads, I have a website and I'm listed with P411 and Date-check..
I have worked as a PA in this industry for 3 years as well as consult business and marketing development for other providers.
As well as consult on online identity safety and security for hobbyists and clients in this community.
Here's the thing about reviews.. As soon as TER and other review boards remove the price factor from provider profiles and don't make explicit details a requirement, I'll be more than happy to have reviews..
I think the review standards as they are presently are corrupt and archaic and I chose not to subject myself to them..

Ohhh nooooozz booooo hooooo,, you don't agree with my protocols, let me go throw my hand dramatically to my head and weep at all the clients I'll lose because I don't have reviews.. *sheds a tear*
I know this will be shocking and again hard for your tiny mind to comprehend, but there are a lot of providers who operate just fine without reviews *faints*

One more thing.. In the grand scheme of the sex industry the hobby community is a very small piece of the pie..
Guess what ? Reviews or not,, you're still an ass

You're one of those clients that no matter what , no Provider will do it right by your standards and you'll always find something to bitch about.. And that's why I'm more than happy to not play nice because frankly I will go out of my way to dissuade clients like you from seeing me..
I'm not hurting and I'm very happy in my little piece of the pie and enjoy the company I keep ,, which are not pretentious whiny asshats who can't be happy no matter what you say or do ...

Meow meow

~Catrina

somewhere, than trying to get every single guy who books an appt. to up even one red cent. They simply don't give a fk about your costs if they have to cancel, or they would in fact not have a problem losing a measly 50-100 bucks. That is not all guys mind you, but the majority who expect the hooker to bend over backwards to get there, and then do it again for the date.

Their d*ck might talk the talk, but the wallet won't help it walk. Just sayin. I don't expect a guy to do a damn thing to see me as I know he has his own issues to deal with, but simply don't contact me. I am not asking anyone to go all out for me, but if you can't give, you can't expect to get either.

To me, if a guy can't pay a 100 dollar deposit, he is basically saying "I don't know if I can make it for sure, and I don't want to lose the money." Well, if that is the case, DON'T FREAKING BOOK! Now, there are men who don't want to get ripped off, but they are few and far between. Guys paying deposits are seeing girls charging more than 2 or 300 per date, so they are not exactly the penny pinchers.

because I am not going to overnight with a provider, take her on my vacation or fly her in from somewhere.  I would not do these things with someone I had not several successful meetings with.  
I have NEVER NCNS but have been NCNS myself.
HV

now that was funny and well put together. Plus I haven't heard the term asshat in a long time and look forward to bringing with me on the ambulance.

Good Kitty

And that risk is in the form of a deposit.  For jackasses like Ridgetucky, that's called "reverse inquiry" in Street lingo.

If she is already coming out, well...I don't think a deposit is warranted because she didn't come out specifically for you.  She is already taking risk in doing so, and has already decided to come out, through no initiative made by you.

A provider can always ask for a deposit, but we don't have to agree.

Southern by the good grace of God. Where we stand by what we say, and are always prepared to defend it. Everything here is done with passion and flavor. We will invite you in for coffee, and welcome a good debate. So when you leave after coffe we meet up at the bar for a few drinks and debate. At the end of the night we end with a hand shake and mutual respect.

That's your excuse. You're a great sounthern gal, so keep on going, never stop. You got this

While I can understand a provider legitimately asking for a deposit for an extended session, I do not agree with a deposit for an introductory session 1-2 hours. Here's why I say that. I was stood up within 1 hour of a session with a very highly reviewed and rated provider. So, I'll be dammed if I'm going to send a provider money ahead of time. I've had to cancel a session before, but it was a week prior to the session so the provider had plenty of time to fill my spot. I do not do overnights (or any extended sessions) with a provider until I've seen her at least once for a 1-2 hour session.

... times that I do agree with Curly on this topic.

If the touring provider cannot plan ahead financially for her trips, any financial loss is on her, no one else.

She shouldn't come in the TER forums and whine about it. Was she expecting us hobbyists to pay for her financial loss?  

Serpius

Posted By: CurlyW

As a residual effect of the post from Old Traveler, I believe that this topic deserves a separate post...

First of all, I hope the provider in the post down below (Cat...whatever...Meow Meow) got herself some medical attention for the panic attack she had...Boy that was something... Time to call your doctor and ask for refill on Xanax if you have run out of the supplies...

Anyways, the question is why guys bitch about prepayment, and when is it appropriate...

Now, I don't consider myself a spokesperson for all the Johns, and neither should you.

That being said there are scenarios, when I would consider prepayment as sensible option.  If you, as a John, are seeking out a provider from out of town for an extended appointment, then you should be willing to shell out the money upfront, if she asks for it... And it is up to the women (hookers) to ask for it. We are not going to volunteer paying up front. At least I am not...That would be too naive.

If I am seeking someone out then its my responsibility to clear my schedule, get rid of the wifey (temporarily), take off from work for a day or two if I have to.

What I don't like is a women advertizing on the board, and when contacted asks for prepayment for every appointment....There are some high end providers that require guys to pay something like 50% up front . I don't like that. To me, if you are advertising your tour already then you should be willing to take the risk that is associated with the tour. As I didn't request it personally, most of your profits are not necessarily coming out of "OUR" time together. In my mind, you have probably figured out a way to make the trip profitable, otherwise you wouldn't be coming here. Some guys will still see you (with 50% deposit), but I wouldn't.  Things do come up at last moment,  and when guys lose their 50% of "non refundable" deposit they feel cheated. That's where the bitching starts.

This at the surface may seem to be a minor difference, but the devil is ALWAYS in the details.

-- Modified on 11/24/2012 7:24:36 PM

I tried to think about what I would feel is a simple answer.  As you say, the devil truly is in the details and almost any situation can have variations on the answer.

But the simplest I think I can boil it down to might be:  If a guy causes a lady to put out money specifically to see him, he should probably be willing to put up a deposit if asked.  Some examples are easy:  she travels to his city because he asked; she gets a room for an overnight; she extends a stay specifically to accomodate a guy who asks her to.

Obviously the situations can vairy, and what is a "reasonable" deposit can vairy, but philosophicaly I would think this reasonable.

It does not address the last minute cancellations which are a related but similar issue.  I would think a guy who cancelled late should not be surprised if he is asked for a deposit the next time.

If someone has cancelled last minute in the past, he should not feel insulted if asked to pay upfront for at least part of the session...