I summit this is real dating. What you do outside the hobby is kidding yourself.
I was a provider in Boston for quite a while. When you see the break in reviews, I started dating. However, I made the mistake of crossing the line a couple of times and dated a client. I ended up marrying the last one.
There is a reason for the envelope. It's to keep it clear that we all know the boudaries of what is real and what is fantacy. Seeing a provider frequently, that you enjoy, is not dating. However, you can make multipule dates with them. Make no mistake that there will or should always be compensation involved.
Keep it real. Sure, you're making dates with ladies but NOT emotional dates. If you want to invest yourself in that you should stop hobbying now and join match.com, lol.
Take it from me. The last line I crossed was not the best idea after all. I ended up hobbying again. It's not just the guys who stop getting it at home!
theformerangierenee
If you want more insight into this you're welcome to email me [email protected].
-- Modified on 6/15/2008 9:57:49 AM
This begs a question, is there such a thing as seeing your ATF too much? Is there a time when you need to step back no matter how much you enjoy her company and ask questions? Or does it not matter how much you see her so long as the envelope is there?
After two marriages I am a realist. So far hobbying has been way cheaper and 10 times more honest. I get one of the best parts of the relationship without all the honey-dos and emotional BS.
I do miss having someone to share with from time to time. And as you said we all have lines we are not willing to cross.
While you can certainly develop long term relationships with providers you should never confuse this for anything other than what it is: A long-term business relationship. Yes, I think the sex is much better when you see a lady regularly. I'm having the best sex of my life right now with my ATF. We have known each other for a couple of years, like the same sort of sexual activities and seem to share a lot in common as far as our outlook on the rest of the human race. That being said, there is always an envelope on the table and when we are done boinking, licking and sucking each other's brains out we hug and part company until the next visit. We have a great time together but though we kick some sand on the customer/provider line that line is still most definitely there.
If all you are looking for is great sex on a regular basis I think you can definitely achieve that with a compatible fav or two. If you are extremely lucky as I have been you may even make a good friend. Does it replace a loving relationship? Not in my opinion.
The only downside to a LTR with a provider is a 'connection' often leads to more time being spent by either the provider or hobbyist conversing and less time for sex, even when the sex may get more intimate. This leads to confusion and more expectations that can simply not be fulfilled by the standard 'professional hour'. And this often lead to hurt feelings, etc. Providing, like pyschological therapy, has the same pitfalls. Absent a BS or MS diploma and certification (plus the obligatory state license review board), we are all on our own good judgement.
I have read enough complaints on the boards over the years from guys who think they are being taken for granted and providers concerned because a regular expects too much.
I have two LTR's right now and in both cases there definitely is a friendship involved beyond the sex. I don't book a one hour appointment with either of these ladies. I book two hours and in both cases we spend three to five hours together including chat time, dinner time and sex time. This works because they are both low volume ladies who only work a few days a month and almost always see only one appointment in a day. Since they happily make themselves available when I call I am assuming that they are both happy with the financial arrangement and I know am certainly happy with the percentages of chat/food/sex.
Once again I really like your perspective about this kind of dating. I agree it is a business relationship however the personality and chemistry between the provider and I are part of the equation. I happen to be one who at least wants to feel like I have a chemistry and some things in common with the provider. Like you I would prefer to just see a few on a long term basis. Now as long as they treat me in such a way that I feel the chemistry I try not to concern myself with how much is real and how much is illusion. For me it is real and I enjoy it. There is a great deal of illusion and deception in real dating also.
A truly healthy loving real relationship would of course be better. The way I understand the statistics however is about 50% of marriages end in divorce. Of the 50% that stay married about half have good marriages and the other half are just sticking it out. So the odds of a really good long term relationship are about 1 in 4. I admire those people.
At 55, two marriages and several so's I just feel like I am done with that. I may regret it later in life but for now I am much happier getting my needs met this way. I do have friends to meet some of my social relationship needs.
My basic MO is to find a provider and stick with her (until she retires, moves away, etc.) But I never think there is more there than a friendly relationship with a vendor. Yes, you get to know each other better with repeat visits, but it's not dating. That there is sex can fool the subconscious perhaps...best to think like you have a good relationship with the local mom and pop store.
when you are not a successful attractive guy.
They bacome friends and I believe you should be able to do friends. But society says no.
But this way we can.
Are you asking this because you're looking to potentially "real life date" a provider, or are you looking to see whether you can achieve a "dating like" atmosphere or experience by seeing one repeatedly?
Just on the surface, if you see the same provider repeatedly, you do find out more about each other; what each of you likes and dislikes; and you definitely know what to expect sexually when you see each other. However, it could be expensive, depending on how often you would want to see her, and for how long each time.
For me personally, I've previously seen a handful of ladies on a recurring basis, and the comfort level for me was a lot higher because of the familiarity.
Real Life date an escort. What does that mean? I dont have to pay.
You always pay buddy. And if its not covered up front its usually more.
I just wanted some other peoples experiences.
Plus some of the Topics here were lame or had nothing to do with the industry.
Yes, if you see the same provider many visits for a long period, you can as Bostonguy said "if you are lucky" have a rewarding friendship, if the boundaries are kept intact, you respect her boundaries, she yours, etc. The reason for the 'if you are lucky'- none of us are here in the hobby, providers or hobbyists, because of our great finesse at long term relationships.
I've had multiple different experiences at LTR's with providers-
One full crossing of boundaries- we fell in love, it ended very quickly and very badly.
One eight month client relationship with some sand on the intact boundary as Bostonguy so well put it. Lots of long visits, some travel, all on the clock. Some off the clock platonic time together at her place or out to eat. We got to know each other well, the on the clock sex got less time spent but more intense as we got closer. Even though the boundary was intact and there was never any freebie BCD play, it still ended badly. But while it was going on, I had a great friend (I thought).
Now, spending most hobby time with a provider that I have connection with, enjoy thoroughly intellectually, physically, pretty much in every way- someone I would have been attracted to if met under different circumstances. Fully intact boundary- we never have contact between visits except emails when setting up the next visit.
But when we are together, it is powerful, fully engaged time together. The boundaries will never get stretched or have sand on them- she is a pro and I am happy to have it that way. Works great and the history does very much improve the time together. And there will never be any heartache or stress. Pretty much the way hobbying should be.
So- you question- does repeat visit background make the sex and the experience more rewarding? I can say in all three experiences I had- yes. If the boundaries get stretched or abandoned- there is a 99% chance of it ending badly in my opinion. If they stay intact- it certainly can be rewarding and a whole lot simpler than civvie dating or crossed boundary provider dating.
and married 20 years feels that there is no answer to your question. I do feel that you have much figuring out to do. Sounds like you are single so just let life take you where it goes...see providers, civies...who knows what you may find out about yourself?
-- Modified on 6/15/2008 5:53:19 PM
Auditions to will be held beginning July 7.
and even then there are no guarantees.
Bev and I were just discussing this today and our feeling is that the best of both worlds can easily become the worst of both worlds if the two people don't apply themselves fully.
Overall, I would have to say the the majority of men and perhaps even women are better served by a hobbying relationship than a more conventional relationship. (I won't use the term "real" because it is too dismissive of the hobby.)
I don't know. I like all of the answers I heard above. I had an ATF who I liked to hang around with. We were close enough that she called me when her father died. I think in some ways we both took each other for granted and it ended with me telling her I wasn't paying for sex anymore with her, her seeing me a couple of times without money involved but then her suggesting I furnish her house for her (we lived in separate states so I never actually saw her house). We were good friends, the sex was great but not the best I had ever had after awhile and then we went our separate ways. We continued to talk for a little bit but we really were in tow different places in terms of we wanted out of life. Haven't heard from her in over a year although she did contact a friend of mine recently.
Anyway the sex with her was the best the first one or two times I saw her and then it didn't get better just because we knew each other better. It was always good but it didn't get better and better.
I think the real issue got to be that we got into a GFE type experience where she lost her professsionalism, I lost my perspective as a client and the whole thing tanked.
I think if you can maintain good boundaries there isn't any reason why the sex shouldn't get better but I would think it would max out after 4-5 visits once you got your fantasy ideas out of the way.
IMHO
with escorts prices over 300 bucks ,average joe ,me ,will spend more than half his pay for one hour ,american women can be even cost more ,prices are to high,a professor 20years ago kill a escort ,because he coundn't let go same a many husbands today
At least in my little fantasy world they are. I almost always ask for a dinner date, and I always intend to fall madly in love during the course of the evening. And, of course, she will fall madly in love with me. During our time together, it's very, very real to me. It's amazing how many times you can fall in love with the same woman, as long as you know where the lines are drawn.
Being one who has seem my ATF exclusively for almost a year now, I do believe that provider "dating", as you may call it, can be a very rewarding and nurturing experience - with the right people.
The initial encounters, as far as sex, were good. But as I am with a person who will allow emotions to enter the picture, once we really got to know each other, the meetings have become passionate and caring. She knows me very well, and our meetings differ each time we are together - satisfying what we both need.
However, we also call, email, text...we are there for each other when needed. We truly do have a "relationship" outside the hobby, but also keep boundaries in place.
So, what's the difference between this and a "real" relationship? Three very big things. First, there's always the envelope. That keeps things in perspective, and helps with the second thing: that this does not cross over into our personal lives too much. We both have lives we lead, and although we are small parts of them, we will not "date" in the true sense, and there are no expectations as far as calling or emailing.
The third, and perhaps the biggest difference, is that the passion and caring isn't saddled or harmed by the everyday stresses that can get in the way. This allows the passion to be strong, and it's the best of both worlds!
It can exist, because it does! I am not the only one. I enjoy my connection with my ATF very much, and we both get a lot out of it.
Just my 2 cents.
