I always loved the company of men, in or out of this hobby. I am now finding that I now do not trust them and I am worried that I won't be able to have a relationship outside the hobby due to my trust issues. I wasn't distrusting of men before I was a provider and it's taken a long while to get to this point.

I was wonderin' if this is common? What can I do to start trusting guys again?

I look at it this way:

If we were to be in men's shoes and we were to see women through their eyes, you would understand why they are ogling.  Women are so damn beautiful and sexy!  How could they not want what they see?  However, in personal conversations with men, I have learned that most men absolutely love their SO and they wouldn't trade her for the world.

May I suggest a book that helped me better understand the nature of men, as well as women?  You may find the book very enlightening. "Heart and Minds--How Our Brains are Hardwired for Relationships" by Thomas David Kehoe.

In that book, I learned that it is in human nature for men and women to be polygynous.  

On a side note, prior to my entering the hobby, I had been involved in the swinging scene quite intimately.  From the lifestyle, I realized that relationships where both partners were completely secure with their identity had an easier time immersing themselves in the lifestyle.  Those that weren't got out of the lifestyle very quickly.

I don't want to make this long and drawn out, but if you would like to chat more privately, PM me.

...it hit a little close to home. As a part-time hobbiest for the past year, I firmly believe I got involved in this industry because I have trust issues with women...a few bad relationships...deception...lies...a broken heart many times over. If anything, my experiences have fine tuned my "radar"  and I'm more aware then I was before. Although your situation may be slightly different then mine, it sounds like you may be guilty of the same thing I am...spending time with "not so nice" people. Believe it or not, there are alot of good men and women out there including the industry. We just need to look a little harder and be a little more perceptive. As much as I hate to admit it, the type of trust that you are talking about will take a time to regain. Stay positive.

NiceGuy

I don't hate them. I just don't trust them. I see men who tell me that they are happily married and their wives have no clue as to whats going on. Then I wonder when I get married one day will my husband be like this. I do think it's sleazy of men to go behind their wives backs and do this. Why can't you be happy with one woman? Well I guess their is part of me who hates these men. Even though I only do massage I can't stand any of them who walk threw my door (always trying to push for more) but they have no clue. I didn't become a top provider by putting on a sad face. God I hate when they touch me. Yes I know I should get out of the business but the reason is the same as to why I started- The money is too damn good.

Love the way they taste feel smell etc...

The people in the hobby that is. I enjoy their company more, perfer and seek time with them over dating.
Dating Guys? bahhh isnt for me right now.
My perception - when a guy is smacking down lines.. their just that lines. I have a tendency  now to be able to see right through the *shite*
All it seems my date will do in an evening is feed me more and more propganda at the hopeful attempt he gets to drop his drawers four hours later to get a little licking.
I spend an evening with a hobby friend WE BOTH know what we are going to do. However the build up is delightful as we spend time getting to know the nice things and taking our time to find that really hot spot. No falsehoods. I have the ability with a hobby friend to say... oh no over here baby ..right there .. lets do this.
My dates tend to bore me.  I would like them more with out the bullcocky

I understand your wariness of men, that's the pitfall of this business, isn't it?  You see a side of things nobody really acknowledges, and then you can't go back to believing in monogamy and all that.  I think it helps, (it has helped me,) to have male friends (platonic) - it helps balance those days when you feel like they're only ever interested in you for one reason!

-Anya

simple reality to your cocerns about us men..

IMPO ...

if what you want or need is not in the closet or refig at home you have to good shopping for it.

If you have it at home & it's availble without much searching for it or EFFORT ...you don't need to go shopping.

see.. Not very complicated animals us men.

keep it easliy available & spice it up so the dish is different.

This is a pretty heavy and pretty depressing thread -- maybe because it hits too close to home on both sides or maybe because it's all wrong.

JustWannaAsk suggests she hates men because she can't trust them -- they obviously have no integrity because they see providers outside their SO relationship. At the same time, she leaves me (and I'm sure others) with the notion that providers can't be trusted because they lie and pretend to like -- or at least tolerate -- their time with us when actually they hate our guts because we're so dishonest with our wives or SOs.  

So does that mean we're all worthless shit?

I know this is a fantasy and a lot of the things we say to each other have to be understood in that context. But 'hate' is a pretty strong word. I don't really have any desire to spend time with someone (let alone intimate time) if she truly hates my guts.

It does bother me that I'm no longer 100% honest with my wife, but for reasons I won't go into here, I've come to terms with that (while knowing she never could). I wish it weren't so and I'm not proud out of it, but I don't think it means I'm such a bad person or I wouldn't do it. It's not something I'm proud of and in little ways that may mean more to me than her I try to compensate for it.

The odd thing is that one of the attractions of the hobby is that I can be perfectly honest about that situation with the provider. I don't have to pretend I'm single or someone I'm not so she'll spend time with me. There are providers I've only seen once because there'd never be anything beyond the sex, and one who I now see regularly because I do believe we connect on an emotional level -- and offer each other something that goes beyond the sex (but still I know that without the sex-for-money part, we'd never see each other.)

Do I have to give that up and assume she hates my guts and that's what she's thinking when she's faking those orgasms?

As for JustWannaAsk's basic question, the obvious answer is that she shouldn't give up on all men. Even if all men who partake in the hobby are wrothless shits, that still leaves a huge majority who may meet her standards for trustworthiness. I just hope when she meets one, she can rise to the same level of honesty. Good luck.

I didn't say I hate your guts. I just said, in my own personal life, I can't see myself ever being able to have a relationship where I think the guy will be faithful.

I don't judge your situation but I do wonder if you ever feel guilty. And if you do, what brings you back for more?

you may hate me for a client, but I admire you as a person.  
You don’t link to your site, but I understand why you wouldn’t want to do that for business purposes.  

You are right not to trust me.  If I’m able to tell a BIG lie to my wife, then my ethics have already been compromised.  Before I started seeing sex workers I considered myself to be a completely honest person.  Now, little lies come easy to me: mostly by telling them what they want to hear rather than what I really think.  It works both ways, because escorts have told me little lies too.  It just seems to be a part of doing business, but we do seem to reinforce each other.  If it’s ok for her, it’s ok for me kinda thing.

I try to make it a policy not to say negative things without suggesting a positive solution. Please try to take a good portion of your income and start working toward a college degree.  Then find a good Honest well-educated man-- who is not a client of sex workers—and keep him happy.  I know you know how.  Then you can start trusting men again.


-- Modified on 11/27/2003 1:09:12 PM

ps. part of me can't stop being a temptress and i guess i get off on that with my dark side but sometimes i feel that there is nothing solid for me here.

She frankly, has a very low sex drive, either that or she simply does not find me appealing (despite her protestations to the contrary, IOW, she's lying). I on the other hand, am horny, a lot.

I either,

A. force her to have sex.
B. do without
C. divorce her and we raise our children in seperate homes
D. pay a provider to relieve me.

Which would you suggest?

Oh and,
E. beat off like a motherfucker (I already do that!)

I know this thread was aimed toward the ladies(as stated in your original header) but when you say you "feel there is nothing solid for me here" i have to ask how you mean it. Maybe i missed something really obvious somewhere in your post.....god knows it wouldn't be the first time i've been dain bramaged and looked past something.

If your using FBSM as a way to earn an income and/or because you enjoy doing it (hopefully the and, not the or, but either way will due i guess as long as you put on enough of an act with your clients) that's fine. If your doing FBSM to support yourself and at the same time hoping to find something more then just a "client" in one of your clients, then i think your heading down the wrong road. A very wrong road. While i won't say that it never happens, i think we all need to be honest enough with ourselves to realize that it doesn't happen often. I've met some of the most wonderful ladies i've met anywhere right here as a hobbiest. A few of them have developed into friendships...and one into a great friendship(bless her heart). But i wasn't looking for that when i made the appointment, it just sorta happened somewhere along the way. If it sneaks up and jumps on you like that i think maybe you have a chance, but if you go out looking for it in your clientel i don't think it will work.

The isssue of manogomy has at times been discussed to no end here..... hell, everywhere it seems for that matter. The only resolution to the discussions always seems to be that we agree to disagree. If your lack of trust stems from a lack of manogomy in your clients, the grey area that your creating in your mind about men will end up being damn near limitless and as you said, there won't be any returning from it.

The reasons for participating in this "hobby" of ours are just about as limitless and they range from from open marriages to an S.O. medical condition to a marriage of convienience to just plain cheating to being single/divorced and not wanting the hassle of a long term relationship blah, blah, blah, blah blah........ i could go on forever but i think you get the point. And it doesn't stop at the male side of the fence. The ladys that are here all have differing reasons for being here also. Hopefully a good part of the base reason is because they really enjoy what they are doing and are comfortable enough with themselves and their life to be here without beating themselves over the head every 2 seconds about it.

The things that push us together, of times, are the same things that pull us apart. Now, that may not make a hell of alot of sense but i can't think of a better way to put it. Perhaps your feelings about something that originally attracted you to this profession, weather it be the monitary, the type of men that partake in it, and so on......has changed and it's causing you to feel like you do.

In all honesty, you seem to me to sound like you despise the men you see and because of it maybe it makes you feel...... hummmmm ............. dirty? Like less of a woman inside? I don't know for sure, that's just what i take from reading your posts. If so, then maybe you need to back away from this for a short time and take inventory, so to speak, of just who you want to be and how you want to get there.

Snow  

-- Modified on 11/27/2003 12:45:27 PM

... only after they get married?

Before marriage, we had a wonderful sex life.  Anything and everything was available at all times.  She started things as much as I did, introduced me to great oral sex and even insisted we experiment with anal.  She even loved the anal and would blow me at a moments thought.  We had great times both in and out of bed, traveled, shared a household, life was good.

Then she suggested we might want to consider marriage seeing things were so great.  After three years, I figured this was the one, so I asked her, she said yes, we got married.

Two months after the honeymoon, she discovers her low sex-drive, oral sex now is out of the question and I was a beast for even suggesting anal sex.

Seems like entrapment to me?

I do feel guilty and I guess that's part of why your post upset me. I guess I've just come to the conclusion (after 18 years of marriage) that it's unrealistic to think one person can fulfill 100% of the other's desires, needs, wants, fantasies, etc. And then it becomes a question of what to do when you think you're only getting 90 or 95 percent or whatever percent of what you want or need. Do you just accept it? Maybe. But if it eats away at you...and maybe starts to erode the whole relationship... then you have to decide whether to throw out all the good things you have and try to start again -- or try to fill the hole some other way.

I don't know. It does bother me. Maybe all of the men in this lifestyle are all misfits... but don't let that warp your view of all men. After all, even I was honest and trustworthy for the first 17 years.

 

-- Modified on 11/27/2003 12:55:05 PM

Well, the confinement, routine, and busy-ness of marriage itself does change things, yes. But, as the feelings you have towards your mate also changes, so can the desire to have sex with them. I'm speaking of MY experience.
First, we were never friends, my ex-husband and I. We never had a closeness and a devotion to each other that was a deep, long-lasting friendship. It was immature and based on lust. How long lasting would that be?!
As the babies came, exhaustion and stresses of marriage and family entered, as lust was quickly replaced with disappointment and dislike for my mate, I didn't want ANYTHING to do with him, let alone have sex.
I was so relieved, once I left him, to almost immediately hook up with someone from work and have months worth of hot, steamy, wild sex if not for the simple fact of realizing that it indeed WAS still in me - just not with him.

I'm speaking only for myself, and my experience..

Try not to let the harshness of observations made from the hobby taint your outlook. There have always been "cheaters" in both genders. You see a lot of cheating husbands here because here is where a cheating husband would go.
  After my mother had a hysterectomy(sp?)30+ years ago she lost her sex drive all together. My dad although extremely frustrated remained faithfull till her death just 3 years ago.
  Faithfull men are out there. They can even be found here in this forum (They're the single ones wishing they weren't single). So don't get hardened like our friend Cynicalman. Sometimes its not "all about the money" and sometimes you really can trust your SO.

Personally, I think there's absolutely nothing like having a selection of shoes to choose from. Variety is good.

Yesterday I saw a woman wearing a long plaid skirt with a nearly full-length slit on the side. At first glance, it appeared rather modest.  Then the slit parted to reveal red nylons (pantyhose?) and red high heels. Wow, what an effect.

So...tell us about the shoes...


-- Modified on 11/27/2003 5:51:13 PM

A quote I heard before:

"Show me the hottest woman in the world and I'll show you a man who is sick of sleeping with her"

Men like variety.  I also do not trust men but have seen first hand that some really can see escorts and still love their wives.  So in that way this hobby has given me hope.  Odd, huh?

I have many friends who are either gay or lesbian...it is this latter category that might be cure-all for the question you ask...from what I have seen first hand, the relationships between gay women are just as rife with infidelity and betrayal and lies and sexual escapades as those between a man and woman.  No worse and no better .  

If infidelity is what you fear, then the question is whether you can trust (or hate) people or whether you are willing to risk this for something greater that will grow between 2 people despite the little bumps along the way...

Particularly coming from a Regular Gal.  Your very handle implies that you don’t have an overblown ego and have realistic points of view.  Your services can be like an Oasis to a man dying of thirst in the desert.  With the caveat that if he allows himself too much water it can make both himself and his wife sick.

I once believed that my participation would bring my wife and myself closer together because it would make me a happier man, and if I was happier it would somehow rub off on her.  It was a rationalization.  It did have the effect of making me happier at least temporarily, but it drove a wedge in our marriage because I became less emotionally available to her.  I love my wife like I love my own life.  But I’ve lost her because of my participation.

"Show me the hottest woman in the world and I'll show you a man who is sick of sleeping with her"

There’s no question about the truth of this quote. But it’s far more true of clients of sex workers IMO.  

I won’t go into detail for reasons of confidentiality, but one of my friends is in fact one of the hottest women in the world. She retired from sex work to become one of her client's fiancée.  The relationship lasted only briefly before he was off seeing escorts again.  She recognized his sexual addiction and quickly left him.  She’s also one of the smartest women in the world.

I’m also a friend of a friend who married a former sex worker about 20 years ago.  Back then she was known as a “high-class call girl."  They met while working as volunteers in a soup kitchen.  She saved her earnings to put herself through law school.  They are still happily married (and as far as I know)are in an intimate monogamous relationship.  

So yeah, there’s reason for hope



-- Modified on 11/28/2003 1:54:00 PM

People are not all the same! However There are simalaritys in this world women have a lot of responsibilitys and that is amplyfyed by your expectations you enter a relationship with. Women and Men have differant ideas of relationships.
Men fantisize about more and better sex and agree to commit as a part of a give and take we are raised to belive in this is my experiance. Than somthing fails expectations are shot and reality sets in. For me I still love my wife and would stop this hobby in a heart beat if I had hope of what I consider a good situation with sex were possable. I however am not going to me miserable for years and I am not willing to risk having to have my kids be the victoms of a divorce.

I think whether you are a provider or not has little to do with trusting men. Trust is something that has to be earned and experienced over the course of time. If anything, it's a learning process, there will always be disappointments and after awhile you begin to learn from them by being selective in whom you do trust. I've had my share of major heartbreaks, but I firmly believe that men are good and do my best not to harbor resentments towards them. Another thought also is to look at what role you played, did you in some way influence the responses you got. I'm not saying it's your fault, but you have to be honest with self and see both sides realistically....easier said than done! Most of the time the answers you seek are already within you.....just have to be open to them. I wish you peace.

I agree bd96 we are all different and our reasons for being faithful or unfaithful can be rationalized as well as justified. I was only saying that JustWannaAsk should not judge men too harshly being she has been somewhat jaded by her involvement with the "Hobby". It would be just as wrong for us men here to presume that a provider could never again be monogamous.

Well, since you said that...I've gotten used to the variety of partners. I want to be monagamous in theory but if my partner wasn't great in bed and didn't give me sex often, I'll probably cheat.

launder it into the clean power of knowledge.

I have no Idea what that is? Looker huh.. teee hee you should see me with two Feather fans a bowl of cherries.. and very little else in a HUGEMONGOUS champagne glass.. lol  


I will remember to get those pictures on the site ...

I LOVE to be in the company of interesting, intelligent, sensuous and beautiful women.  Who wouldn't?

It appears that a great deal of the dislike is around men stepping out on the SOs.

What about guys who are single?  I wonder how ladies feel about meeting us?

In the last thirteen years I've been single, I've been very upfront, and brutally honest about my relationships - what they are, what they will be, and what they never will be. I always have the understanding that I am not exclusive and may/may not see others - with protection, of course. When it comes to the important information - we have a pact to inform the other of any changes.
It works very well.

If I ever did (I doubt it) fall head over heels in love and was in a 'real' relationship, I am a very devoted, one-man monogamous woman! But, I don't lie, or cheat, or deceive. If he wasn't fulfilling my needs, I would let him know, and he'd be fully informed of whatever I chose to do.
Trust is HUGE with me.

Single guys? Great! Less worry about leaving messages; built in in-call location (if they choose), more flexible with the scheduling, more relaxed when out in public..etc. etc.

Yeppur! Love 'em married, love 'em single!

-- Modified on 11/29/2003 12:02:29 PM

Not going to bother to read all the sub posts fron this original post.  In almost 100% of psychologial studies of female sex workers the overwhelming statistical therapy assessments are NOT that sex workers "hate" men, but rather in fact they are extremely "angry" at men, based on childhood experience, and a possible genome sensitivity to idenity needs for male nurturing and love/praise as a child. And there is a big difference between 'hate' and 'anger'.  

This anger is internalized and balanced by sexually giving to men (even if it is for money, which is almost irrelevant except for survival needs) but there is a constant need to balance, and re-balance anger and sexual love, which leads to unconcious destructive behaviors in many individual cases.  

No editorializing, except:  Customers, johns, hobbyists, etc. whatever you refer in name to yourselves, you cannot fix this with money, gifts, glamour, attention or love.  The provider needs to fix it herself to survive long term and find internal psychic balance and some semblence of comfort and happiness.

Drugs, alcohol and sex, just keeps the pendulum swinging out of balance.