so my next question is, do WKs have an opposite -- Black Knights [as a kid growing up on comic boks, I remember that The Black Knight was one of Iron Man's opponents]?
If so, then:
Who are they?
What are their motives?
How does one become one?
Are they a benefit or a negative to the hobby?
Would anyone go out of his way to avoid, or to earn, that title?
Are there variious degrees of Black Knightery?
TY
I look at it more as adversarial vs. non-adversarial.
There are guys who approach the hobby with an open mind and the understanding that what we are dealing with here, in spite of the cash involved, is the most intimate act between two people. These guys understand that enjoying the date is a two way street and, with the right lady, you will get back what you give.
The adversarial guy is a bit more about the money and the sex act. He wants bang for the buck (pun intended!) and he is determined to get what he paid for and more than what he paid for if he can. Adversarial guy doesn't really trust anyone who wants his money, especially escorts. This doesn't make him a bad guy but it can...
I guess in an extreme case a "black Knight" would be a guy, probably a misogynist, who hates the fact that he has to pay for sex and resents women for profiting from it. I see milder versions of this all over the boards but I think the gray area that most guys fall into is just to broad to lump them into "black" or "white" categories. I see relatively few extreme cases in either direction.
I don't think any of this has much of an effect on the hobby. This is the information age so, as a form of entertainment, we all sit around our computers and ramble on about this stuff. Let's face it, we are talking about the world's oldest profession here and there is really nothing new under the sun. Men have been men for ever and women have figured out how to deal with all shapes, sizes and mindsets through the ages.
This whole argument is as foolish as some of the mental masturbation that happens over on the P/R board.
The thing that is sad for me is that some people (more than I would have thought) have such an attitude about what all this is for and what that means that if you ever show some consideration towards the ladies, you are viewed by those people as "siding with the enemy", and hence the "white knight" label. I have been labeled that way, even though I have had some pretty heated arguments with certain providers on this board and on the San Diego board.
I can only agree with you that there is some hostility lurking in those guys about the "power exchange" here, because it never ceases to amaze me how cynical some guys can be. I guess some guys will never get over the fact that men are the weaker sex in this arena, at least.
All one needs do is present a sapient, contrary argument or POV to that of an otherwise favored provider or their sycophant(s) on these boards.
I would also contend that if one pedantically stuck to an objective doctrine in respect to review scoring he could/would soon be labeled a “Black Knight”. How dark or briliant his armor will always be judged by the cant of the individual reading.
From what I've learned from all the opinions expressed so vigorously in the past threads there does seem to be degrees of White Knights and degrees of Black Knights. Here's my take on the "good" and "bad" of each.
The "good" white knights- don't mind diversity of opinion and an opposing view, don't do their thing to kiss up or shill, but do vigorously object to just plain nastiness and will speak up and defend vigorously against mean spirited posts. The serve a great balancing force to the "bad" black knights.
The "bad" white knights are everything the white knight haters say- kiss ups, can't stand honest diverse opinions, etc.
The "good" black knights- help keep all of us honest, present logical and well thought out opposing opinion, call it like it is, and serve a great balancing force to any bs on the board.
The "bad" black knights are assholes who object and mean spiritedly bash whereever they see fit, call out every defending post by good and bad white knights alike and make the board a miserable place to be sometimes.
My take on it for what it's worth!
under these terms, I thnk that you would fall into the Good Black Knight category. As you stated in your post below, your opinions are often in the minority due to your specific attitude towards the hobby, but your posts are always interesting and revealing.
This is the first time I've heard the term Blsck Knight used here, but I would think this applies to posters who are generally hostile or negative in tone towards just about everyone, and who like to post inflammatory or derogatory comments for the purpose of causing trouble. This activity is mostly seen on the P&R board, but can occur elsewhere as well. I think they in general are a negative force here, and you become one when you attack someone with questionable or hostile motives. There are several posters on the boards who have earned the BK title in my mind, and they seem to enjoy being adversarial and confrontational, both towards hobbyists and providers. In many cases, they have points that are well considered and make sense, but their overall hostile tone often makes their presence unwelcome...
I would classify myself as a black knight with respect to what I expect and get out of the hobby. That is, I view this as a purely business transaction; one where I pay a lady cash for sex. Period. As soon as the hour or two is up and I am out the door, in my mind the provider should completely forget about me and I should completely forget about her as we both get back to reality and our daily routine. I do not make follow up calls to her to simply shoot the breeze and ask how her day is going. I call only if I am prepared to schedule another appointment. I never ask a provider to join me (where I do not pay her for her time) at a ball game, a broadway show or out for dinner. I just would never presume she would want to join me for such events and not be paid for her time. I do not ask a provider to EVER give me a free hour session. I do not view this hobby as one where I should share intimacy, tenderness and closeness with a provider. I am not looking to develop chemistry and lifelong friendships; I keep these pursuits for my private life. I never try to enter into a provider’s private life and I expect that same courtesy in return. I expect a provider to tell me only what she is comfortable sharing. Nothing else about her concerns me.
But I would classify myself as a white knight with respect to my attitude and overall appreciation towards a provider. I am first and foremost professional in how I speak to a lady throughout the entire process. Once I am at a session, the lady is NEVER treated with anything but respect and kindness. Her safety and security is never compromised. We engage in light friendly banter as I try to put her at ease while I am there. I have complete respect for the provider and hold most of the ladies I meet in very high regard. They are intelligent and classy women who deserve professional gentlemen who would never cause them any trouble.
While my views at times are often in the minority on these boards, I try to articulate them as clearly and as professionally as possible. I defend hobbyists and providers where appropriate, but will also criticize and challenge view points if I disagree. But in the end, it is often not what you say, but how you say it that counts. You should have complete respect for this hobby and the people (both hobbyists and providers) who make it special.
-- Modified on 12/18/2007 8:48:08 AM
...while generally we don't see eye to eye on most things, you do present your arguments clearly, concisely, and professionally. I wish I had the patience to write up each post as thoroughly as you do.