I've been seeing a certain provider every week for about 10 weeks.  We saw each other twice during 2 of those weeks and the connection seems to be good although I'm well aware of the envelope's ability to keep things real.

About 4 weeks ago she told me that she loves me and it seemed genuine and I felt deeply complimented.  Still, I know that the envelope is ever-present and it made we wonder about her motives.

Today the other shoe dropped.  She has asked me to spend the night with her on one other occasion (which I did not) and today she asked again.  I told her that I couldn't and told her the reason.

In the next breath she asked me to lend her a large sum of money with the promise to pay me back in a few weeks.

My response was that it was a lot of money and I would have to think about it.  This is the second provider in 5 years to ask me for a large loan.  The first request went unfulfilled and this one will also go unfulfilled.

Unfortunately for my sex drive I will also cut her off now and find my next favorite provider.

I really wish this had not happened but I'm well aware of the sex-money connection which exists in the hobby (but also in civvie relationships).

Her request created a situation where I cannot call her again regardless of how much I enjoyed out time together.  She crossed the line and there's no going back.

At least not from her.
Sounds like she was setting you up for weeks. She may now be bitter and parting ways may not be a bad idea.

I made the mistake of buying my ATF a very expensive watch from a Rodeo Dr. boutique a few years ago. $4K for a watch doesn't sound like much today but in '92 money, it was significant.

Part of the deal was that she got the watch and then she fly up and meet me for a weekend trip to Vegas (two overnights) at a reduced rate. You can imagine the look on my face when I got to the hotel, found out she hadn't arrived and, you guessed it -- she never showed.

Expensive lesson learned and always a reminder to keep things in perspective; you're wise to make the decision to look for another who can keep the lines uncrossed.

Good luck --

Now wouldn't it be a hoot if it turned out she did love you and was looking for the money so she could buy her way out of debt, quit the business, and spend the rest of her life with you???  

OK OK and you can have a snowball fight in hell while watching monkeys fly...its a damn shame she "F'd up" a continuing source of income and good situation by getting greedy and manipulative...

Yep, do not go back. The "I love you", followed by the request for a crap load of money was the kicker. I think she loves you if you provide said gift...it will not be a loan.

You will find another woman who will rock your world as well, if not better than this one with hopefully, less nefarious ambitions to take your money.

to putting myself in your shoes, and imagining her asking me to loan her a large amount of money, because it wouldn't be very pleasant reading. Suffice it to say, I would find it impossible to have sex under such conditions

I can understand how you wouldn't go back.

it sucks but you know you did the right thing.

Hopefully you'll connect on a sexual/chemistry level with the next one and quickly find a new ATF. Or maybe you discover a new taste for variety.

That's still a lot of money, if it's not for me.  Hell, I'll spend 5 times that on my own watch, but not for someone else.  Not gonna happen.  Nope, wouldn't be prudent.  Uh-uh.  Nooooo.

At least you learned your lesson.  BTW, I bought that watch at the pawn shop for a grand and gave it to a lady that fucked my brains out.  Then, when she wasn't looking, I snuck out with it and sold it on Ebay.

You absolutely made the right call. It is too bad she had to ruin a good thing by forgetting where the boundaries are.

play you until you wind up in a soup line. Before that they will lead you around by the nose promising you this and that. All you will ever achieve with a hooker is an empty wallet and MAYBE an empty dick.

The OP exhibited very good sense, can you say the same?

Wrong...it's to Bad there are a Few Bad Apples out there...there are certain lines that should Not be crossed...and Both parties are well aware of the lines that should Not be...and the OP did the correct thing...and unfortunately has to discontinue all forms of communication...because We All know...it could Never be the same as it was...however if a Hobbist chooses to participate in helping out...he too has crossed the line...and we are all adults...and know right from wrong...so Shame on him as well...But Please do NOT prejudge All Providers...there are a lot...including myself...of Very caring and sincere Providers...that Give a lot...and if You were foolish enough to cross the line and particiapte...You must have thought You had a lot to gain Yourself...so would that make You any better than the Provider...I too have been given a lot of generous gifts...and before I accept them...after showing my Excitement...I come back to reality and make sure there are No Strings Attached...What We ALL do here is Give...As Men You give one thing...and as Women We Give another...which turns into a Win-Win situation...as I stated the OP did the right thing...Do Not Cross the Line...there is nothing but trouble on the other side...and as far as the empty dick...lol...I should think that should be a good thing

and FWIW, she's right.

You apparently don't know Jack Shit, Jack_Schitt. rofl

Yes, there are providers who see guys as bottomless wallets.  Just like there are guys who think it's fun to leave an envelope a few hundred short.  There are also a lot of good apples on both sides.

Anyone who'se had nothing but bad experiences it might want to look in the mirror.

If you like someone enough to give them a GIFT, go ahead.  Just don't give it with the expectation of getting it back.  A lot of times you will and then treat it as her giving you a gift.  I've given a number of gifts to women I thought needed some help.  Never expected a cent back.  Most exceeded my expectations but that's just gravey.

Hate to say it, but I've come to realize there is no such thing as a "loan" outside this business either unless you have signed loan papers.

Well that might be the case with some women. It might even be the case with many women. But it is not the case with every woman.

In 4 years of escorting, there has been one, and only one time that I feel hard for a client. He never had to wonder if my feelings were sincere though. When our relationship went past the standard hobbyist/provider boundaries, I stopped expecting or accepting an envelope from him. And I most certainly never asked him for a loan either. All I ever asked was the pleasure of his company, which he freely gave.

OMG...too f'ing funny!

Can I borrow $2K?

as the "Gift" I was referring to...was my Time...and if I choose to give a gentleman an extra 15...30...45 minutes...believe me...it's because the Expectations of which I have none...have already Far Exceeded the Expectations of the Fun I am having...and I don't want it to end...so in other words....I am selfish...and there Will be No need to pay back...because now I am using You

a Provider Gives the Gift of Time...just like I know the Hobbyist Give the Gift of a Fat Envelope...and when I open it...I always say...Hello Ben to each and every one of them

I suppose that was a good experience.

I have a couple of providers who are good friends who would never, in a million years, take advantage of me in any way.

In fact, as crazy as this may sound it is true: I have never had a provider (close friend or not) take advantage of me or harm me in any way.

Sorry, but your blatant over-generalization simply is not true.

Maybe you need to find better criteria for picking providers than whatever criteria you are using.

My Grandfather always said, "It's better to give than to lend.....and it costs the same."

That anything freely given is just that.  Be it a bracelet, time, money...

I've given money to a few women.  Most the time I offered, sometimes they asked.  They said it was a loan and would be paid back and some of them I believed would do so.  But I always told them, and meant it, that it was a gift.  No strings, no expectaions, no guilt.

I've done one loan from someone I know in this business.  We are no longer seeing each other as provider-client, which works well for keeping the expectations clear and potential for hurt feelings to a minimum.  I signed a note which included interest.  To date there has not been a late payment and unless I am gravely ill, there never will be one.  (And should that occur we did discuss that as well.)

I would never have accepted the same amount as a gift.  

.02

From someone who is not out to empty ANYone's wallet.  That above yours was an offensive post though I'd rather not give it any energy other than a post-script

you sound like the right head is doing the thinking to me!  However you WERE an ATM!  Nice to see you decided to leave the banking business!

Did you actually anticipate a diff. answer from a hooker? They will say whatever is required to make money. Now Alley has a very pleasant track record with posts so i will not attempt to thrash her personally.

as if all hookers are the same, anymore than all "Johns" are the same. I'd call that personal

No, she let you have it, and deservedly so. lmao

You'll agree when you sober up. lol

and is only "over-generalizing" as a way of lashing out. It happens to all of us when we do something that we know is stupid, but we do it anyhow.

We've all done stupid things in our life, the trick is to first admit it when its our own fault, and then try to learn from them as not to repeat the same stupid behavior.

Of course experience has been decribed as being able to recognize a mistake when you make one, because you've made the same mistake in the past. lol

if,however she desires one,i generously offer one.

That doesn't discount my being PISSED-OFF still,mostly at myself. DAMN I'M GOOD.

That just struck me as a lot.  You're definitely making the right call, I wouldnt lend her the money unless you were ok with losing it (for some strange reason).  I'm curious how much she wanted and what it was for though now.

apology...thank You...and You are right...You should be mad at yourself...sometimes when we are in the midst of something...it's hard to see what is actually going on...until either we take a step back...or have gotten screwed...and Not in a good way...it's to bad it happened to You...but on a positive note...You can share Your experiences with other Hobbyist so it doesn't happen to them...just don't put All of us Providers in the same category...and also please make sure You share in some of the blame...because afterall it takes both parties to participate even if only one person is getting screwed

If a provider defaults, I suspect most would not go to the trouble to exercise a promissory note, especially if it is not a substantially loan.  Most Provider’s don’t have the collateral for a substantial loan. If they do, say like a house, they will most likely be the second or third or even latter on lien position and he will behind others for repayment if there is anything left after other have gotten theirs.

I agree with others in that  any loan given to a Provider, even with a promissory note, should be consider a gift and any repayments as gravy


-- Modified on 6/12/2010 10:13:32 AM

I'm fortunate to be able to enjoy the hobby with that frequency and I sometimes find that a great connection lures me to seeing the same provider very often.  I've been at this hobby for almost 20 years and have had some wonderful connections with a few ladies.  I was asked to give a large loan by another provider about 5 years ago.  I said no at that time and it changed to relationship for the worse.  I eventually ended it (after the next encounter).

This time I will not wait for the next encounter because I have learned that lesson.  There will be no next encounter.

I'm sure that I have done the right thing here (for myself).  I truly wish that she had not made the request and especially not made it in the way she did.  It has left me realizing that the feigned emotional connection that she showed was nothing more than manipulation.  She took advantage of a situation because she thought she could.

Even with the number of years that I have seen providers and the large number of ladies that I've known, I have never felt manipulated as much as I do from this experience.  I have done very valuable favors for a few providers (professional favors in my work) and the barter system was used.  In each of those instances I was never fully given their time in exchange for my services even though the terms were discussed beforehand.  It happened twice with two different providers.  Those experiences were about 4 - 5 years ago (around the same time as the original loan request was made by a third provider).

So, if I now seem more seasoned and smarter it's because I am and I learned from prior mistakes.  I hate to generalize but when the lines are crossed in this hobby it can lead to disappointment and broken promises.

As much as I enjoy the ladies and willingly pay their rates, I will probably never trust another provider again when the usual and customary boundaries are crossed.  This cynical attitude comes from the few unfortunate experiences that I've outlined.

With any loan you give to anyone, it is wise to be judicious, to attempt to secure your money, to have clear terms that are documented... and to consider the possibility that it may not be paid back either through inability or lack of character.

Loans can traumatize relationships or become "gifts" if something goes wrong.  There is no difference here than elsewhere.  

In the current economy I know of two where it was the provider who gave substantial amounts to long time clients.  I advised both to put it in signed paper and pointed both towards lawers.  One did so, one kept it on a handshake.  I don't have any idea who the guys are.

I am sure I will hear how they both turn out.  I hope both turn out well.

I would agree with others here that think you are doing the right thing.  Once a line like that is crossed...well, there's really no going back. You'll move on and be glad that you did.

1. She didn't tell me she was a provider
2. I didn't tell her I found out by accident
3. I didn't tell her I know
4. I don't look at Eros anymore
5. I only hobby when she is traveling

I would be interested in knowing what you consider “substantial amounts”.  I suspect for every one provider who loaned “substantial amount” to hobbyist there is at least 10 foolish hobbyists that loaned “substantial amount” to Providers.  Any signed promissory note is probably not worth the paper it is written on since it will probably not be exercise in a default.  Even if you took it to small claims the most you can get is a JUDGEMENT for $5000 that expires in 7-10 years and it doesn't mean you automatically collect money from them .It can be very difficult and expensive and a pain in the ass to collect a small claim judgment.  Moreover it not that hard for a Provider to avoid being served.  If you went to a higher court it may takes years for your case to be heard and it will be costly since under the American system each party usually pays their own legal expense and you will probably by that time be squeezing blood out of a turnip if you do win.

There is a plethora of reasons why it not a good idea to loan money to a Provider.  Lack of enforcement of the payback provision of the loan is just one. They range from supporting bad personal and business choices to being tied to an undesirable long term (the length of the loan) relationship with a provider we in the end really don’t want.

If you want to financially help a Provider consider  a gift and if she wants to consider it loan for appearance sake call it a loan. Most likely if it anything substantially you are not going to be fully payback.

curiousity...as Your relationship continues to Grow and develop...and she continues to provide...will You ever say anything...or are You so secure about yourself...that You would allow this secret that she has...and let her continue to provide and go off to whatever job she says she has...I ask this for my own reasons...Thanks in advance for Your reply

1. I had hobbied for two years before I met her
2. I honestly believe it is just her job
3  I see no reason to bring it up
4. If she wants me to know.then she will tell me
5. Her life is not mine to direct or question
6. She treats me like a King
7. She is My Queen and has my heart
8. If its not broken,I never attempt to fix it
9. I am not the guy that asks Why Why Why
10.I am not the blinded fool,that judges others

  We've been together for three years and never had a argument, or raised our voices at each other..I would never scorn my love, to spite my pride.I am holding my cards as they were dealt.

Guys do more of the lending than providers do, and 10:1 might be conservative but it does happen in both directions, and the advice would be the same.

Most notes would not be collectable.  It depends upon far more specifics that we can cover here.  Just sayin' IF you want it to be a loan at least have it in writing.  Better yet, see below.

Most of all I agree with your last two sentences:  no matter which direction the gift goes.

As to your question I know two specific cases.  One was for $10K or so, the other probably in the $5-7K range, not sure.  I did one loan to my ATF because she wouldn't accept a gift that size.  It was $30K but she had collateral she put up that was worth a fair bit more than that.  It isn't paid off yet, but it's on schedule.  She's the ONLY provider I'd do that for, and our relationship is a lot more complicated than just provider & client.

Simple...if only Everyone could have that kind of Attitude...Thank You for Sharing

bad experiences? lol

Well technically you were an ATM , I think meant to say or well should've wrote bank...atm's don't give loans. ANYWAYS lol yeah highly doubt she loved you after like 10 wks.... I wonder what she's been doing with her money if she had to try to hit you up for a big loan.

She was playing me a fool and lost the game.  If she had not asked me for the loan then she would have still had a very loyal customer.  I was completely turned on by this woman on a few different levels.  But now I won't see her so she has lost me as a steady client.

Too bad for her.  Too bad for me.

You're also right about the fact that after 10 weeks she didn't "love" me.  It was just a manipulative lie to get me in her pocket.  I was skeptical from the outset once she said that to me but at that point it was still simply P4P.  I didn't take it seriously and thought it was just a nice way for her to say she cared about me as a man.  Once she asked for the loan, a few weeks later, I realized that she had been setting me up all along.

Anyway, it's done.  I've moved on.  I hope her next "mark" is smart enough to not be fooled by the charade.  I'm glad that I didn't fall for it and give her the money.