I am new to the hobby so I have a naive question.

Why do so many providers ask for job info as part of a screening process? What does it accomplish? Is it protection from LE or for physical safety? Is LE so incompetent that they can't provide a fake job or get an employer to vouch for them to overlook a ticket?

I feel like my job is being used as a hostage. I have never seen a screening process ask for a home phone number or the name of your wife. Why is putting your career at risk an acceptable practice when putting your marriage at risk would seem too much to ask?

If this is an old subject already answered I apologize.

Thanks for any help

Protection yes on all counts. I would worry if a provider doesn't ask.  I for one want to know who I am going to meet and who is coming into my home. I could care less who your wife is. I have never asked for that. If you are uneasy, then I am sorry. That's the way it works.  There are creeps out there. On your end, check for reviews to ease your concerns a bit. Email a member for a reference. Use the boards.

This is really much more innoccuous than most guys think it is.  Basically, the ladies just want to call a number that is a legitimate business, and then get transferred to your extension.

Certainly, LE COULD set up dummy extensions at legitimate companies, but the fact is, they don't (at least in places other than Orange County).

I've never had a lady do anything else with this information.  And it doesn't put your career at risk.

The provider's interest is to protect her safety, not to jeopardize yours.  Think about how much she is risking (LE, dangerous clients), compared to what you are risking giving her your work number.  Sure, you'd rather risk nothing, but this is not a hobby without risk.  The risk of giving out your work number seems very minimal.  What do you think could happen?

It is a widely used screening tool.  For me, it was a severe hinderance.  Last year I didn't work and this year I can't be reached at work; luckily, I ended being a regular of some well respected ladies and they provide me references now.  For a hobby, this requires a lot of time and effort.  Most of the women I have contacted have been understanding about unique situation and were willing to see me, the screening process just takes more time.

I try to make my companions as comfortable as possible with our first meeting, taking time for screening seems to be greatly appreciated and is probably one reason my mileage doesn't vary a great deal.

DrX

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I've gotten myself to the point in life where I need only a spare bedroom for my office, the only phone number I need or use is my cellphone (yes, I do have a "land line" for fax and emergencies, but I never answer it) and my "assistants" are voicemail and email.

Simple, elegant, and still allows me to earn a nice six-figure income.

Unfortuantely, it makes me virtually impossible to verify.  The only thing anybody can check is the listing on my fax/DSL line.

I don't even bother anymore.  If I get that kind of screen, I politely reply that due to my independent work situation I doubt I can pass the screening, and decline to continue.  Experience indicates that to do otherwise is a complete waste of both of our time.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind being screened.  I really have nothing to hide.  But the flip side is that there is also very little info for anybody to find either, which makes makes me somewhat of a "black hole" to non-professional inquiries.

MisterG

-- Modified on 2/7/2002 4:11:29 PM

I appreciate all the great advice. I guess I have a job that has a greater risk of termination due to accusations of "improper behavior".

I'll just have to choose only the best, most trustworthy providers.

Providers should read "Free Agent Nation" by Daniel H. Pink, in which the consulting/independent contractor situation described by MISTERGEE is becoming increasingly common. Indeed, providers should be intrinsically sympathic, since they are (except for agency workers) almost exclusively "free-agent" workers.

Especially with the advent of E-mail - cell phones, etc., a central switchboard/receptionist that connects you to workers is almost antiquated. May still be the case for Fortune 500 companies (I wouldn't know), but actually very few people work for such large companies.

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Even the last "real" company I worked for (before I went off on my own) had no receptionist or switchboard.  It was a 120-person software development firm and all we had was a voice-response system:  "Please enter the extension of the person you want to speak with now.  If you want to enter a person's name with your phone keypad, enter #.  Or press 1 for sales, 2 for purchasing, 3 for marketing... or press 0 and somebody will answer."  The "0" just forwarded to any of the inside sales reps who were not on the phone or eventually to a common voicemail box.

It served our purpose well and is a pretty common setup these days.  They still do it that way, even after being taken over by a larger firm.  Apparently one of the things they liked about us was the fact that we were extremely efficient and frugal, something that the larger firm with its expensive real estate, fancy offices, company cars and the like were never able to be.

Another good read is "The Millionaire Next Door."  Most of them are small business owners or private practitioners, not guys with receptionists, switchboards and fancy offices.  Most of them are exactly the kinds of people you WANT to do business with: modest, unassuming, with no huge ego to stoke.

MisterG


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independent contractors, consultants, etc. because what you gents say is true.  I should have specified that in my post below, but I didnt want to get into the methodology of screening for obvious reasons.

Sounds like some good reading. Thanks for the titles








-- Modified on 2/7/2002 8:44:03 PM

But that may be due to the way I run my business, which is very low key and structured by my attorney in a way that shields my assets from liability.

Or they just may not have known enough to really make a useful effort.

Not a big deal, but like I said it's made me not want to bother anymore.  I'm a professional.  I don't like wasting other people's time with impossible tasks that will lead nowhere.

MisterG

work, then it will work.  But only then. However in my last post I was speaking merely of the mentality of the procrustean box as relates to variety in employment, self employment or otherwise. I'm merely saying that we don't all expect the men to work in the corporate structure.  

ff

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Because I really don't have much to hide.  I'm single and I mostly work for myself, so I don't really mind inquiries including at my home.

Unfortuantely, most such inquires come up with not much more than a home phone number that gets answered by a fax machine.  Look for my real name on the web and you'll find some messageboard posts on financial forums.  I'm so clean that I'm almost invisible.  Understandably that is suspicious to many people in your business.

Like I said, not really a big deal.  I do OK.  It's one of the limitations that seems to go along with keeping a pretty simple life, and I can live with that a lot better than I can live with that.

MisterG

to some of you like going to the dentist, or remind you of when you were 16 and being grilled by your girlfriend's dad before you could take her out on a date.  Whew,

I just will continue to keep saying thank you to the men who are willing to be screened, always looking for ways to make it less stressful to them and as well fulfill my needs

Thanks for the great feedback, gents.

xoxo

ff





-- Modified on 2/8/2002 1:38:11 AM

I can only tell you *my* personal reasons for asking for job info.

Yes, LE *can* fake employment information.  But generally speaking, it is LESS LIKELY that they will go to that amount of trouble to catch one girl.  It's more likely they would do that kind of thing to go after an agency, or a situation where they can arrest several ladies at once. No matter how you look at it, this is risky business... we have to MINIMIZE our risks as much as we can.

Thus my reasoning goes that that information is much more difficult to fake. As opposed to a fake id or "home number," which could be a cell phone for all we know.  This proves that you are actually who you say you are... at least, it makes it more likely that you are indeed who you say that you are.  Think about the potential for abuse if any client can walk in to see a lady... who is alone in a hotel room... knowing ahead of time that he can do whatever he wants to her because she does not know who she is and can take no recourse for anything he does.  At least, with work info, you walk into the situation more ready to be held accountable for your own actions... and by that I mean it is *LESS LIKELY* that you will come in and beat the crap out of me and rape me (or straight up just kill me), becuase you know that I know who you are.  What I would do if someone ever did disregard that and came in and beat me up regardless, I honestly don't know, but at least I would have *some* options open to me.  

Referrals can be risky for several reasons... for example when I first started, I accepted referrals as screening, and 90% of the time what I got was an email with the name of some chick in Florida or somewhere who I've never heard of, couldn't find on the web if I tried (and do you think I have the time to try and hunt down some obscure girl 3000 miles away from me who no one has ever heard of?), who the guy saw ten years ago. Useless! Also, if LE *does* bust a girl, they can then scheme to use her as a reference to get in with others. Also, it is hard to remember every client you see, and unless you've seen someone several times, it is frankly impossible to predict what their future actions will be based on having seen them *once.*  I do *like* referrals and think they are helpful, but I would not depend on them as my sole method of screening new clients.

Of course I am VERY well aware that no matter *what* screening actions I take, I could still get killed, or harmed, or arrested.  Everything in life has risks, and just like you put your seat belt on when you get in the car to minimize your risk of dying in a car crash, I screen to minimize my risks in this business.  

Different ladies screen in different ways, and I guess your job is simply to find the ones who make you feel the most comfortable. If my screening is too invasive for you, I do understand and do not begrudge you or anyone the choice to look elsewhere.  I can sit here and reassure you that I do not save that information all I want to... but *you* don't know that for sure, and there is no way I could prove it to you. I can tell you that my reputation is FAR too important to me to risk it over being indiscreet with my clients info, but that still involves an element of trust on your part.  I can tell you that if I got arrested, I would not see the point in causing problems for anyone else... but still, you don't REALLY know, unless you choose to give me that trust.  

This 'biz involves trust on *both* sides of the equation... from my perspective, no matter what I do, my risk will *always* be greater than a clients risk coming into it.  But that is one place where the interests of provider and client clash, and always will.... we just have to try to work together as much as we can to find a happy medium.

Please don't flame me, as I'm not hear to argue... just wanted to throw my personal perspective into the fray!

Hugs*
Nicole

I've been a self-employed web designer for years now, so I do sympathize with those who are self-employed and try to work with them. Is your business incorporated? Do you have a website? Is the site registered in either your real name or your business name? Is your business number listed with the yellow pages? These things are all helpful, and with that and a provider reference I would *probably* feel comfortable seeing you.

Hugs*
Nicole

Sexycurves

I appreciate your honest well written reasons for requiring job info for your screening process. You are obviously as intelligent as you are beautiful. But at the risk of flames let me disagree somewhat.

You did hit on a point that has my greatest concern. You admitted to feeling safer by having a client's job info as security against his possible criminal behavior. That is sort of holding his job info as hostage isn't it? If he behaves himself no one gets hurt but if he doesn't you can possibly ruin his job.

Who determines what proper behavior is? If he is violent f**k him up no problem. What if he is just a rude ahole? What if there is a disagreement about the services and the compensation? If he doesn't pay the full amount, is he robbing you and does that warrent punishment?

You state that a provider's risk is always greater than the client's. From an LE side I agree that LE is almost always after providers and seldom after hobbiests. But from a physical safety point of view I can't agree. My 90 year old grandmother with a gun in her hand is far more dangerous than an entire NFL offensive line standing naked and horny in a hotel room. Sam Colt can make you the physical equal of any man alive.

I read all the time about cash and dash providers. I have seen postings on other boards where pissed off providers offer to backchannel personal info on clients that didn't pay the supposedly agreed upon amount.

I think you downplay the risk to hobbiests too much. If public knowledge that you are a hobbiest can ruin you professionaly or personally the provider will always have the upper hand. Ask the clients of Heidi Fleiss or several tele-evangalists (whose names escape me) or Hugh Grant if they or their provider had the higher risk and who paid the higher price.

Again, thank you for your honest reasons for screening. I mean no disrespect, I just disagree.

Like I said, I have a home phone number in my own name (that is really just used for DSL and fax, never really answered) and a cellphone.  That's it.  Really simple and easy.  Quite adequate for the work I do.  There is no "business number" or yellow-pages ad.  They're expensive and don't do a thing for an independent professional.  Ditto for a website.  I have one, but at this point its pictures of me playing with airplanes and of family/friends.  Someday I should probably put some business-related stuff up there, but I don't have much reason to.  Nobody finds quality professionals in my field by searching the web.  It's all word of mouth.

The business is run through a limited partnership in which I am the general partner.  I have a local busines license, registered to the limited partnership.

References are a classic case of chicken and egg.  I don't have a reference because nobody "known" will see me, and nobody will see me because I don't have a reference.  The girls who do see me are generally not the "elite" providers who would be useful as references.  Most of them probably don't even know me by my full name.

Like I said, It's no big deal.  I understand your concerns.  I'm not willing to complicate my life just to be "verifiable" to anybody.  My clients know how to verify me without all that.

MisterG

...for better ways to screen independents and small business owners.

Unfortuantely, it's tough.  Anybody with a brain will register their business to a corporation (often out of state) or Limited Partnership, which means that even if you do actually own the business and have a business license, there's no obvious paper trail connecting the business and the individual to each other.

Sadly, I can't think of much.

MisterG

And it did`nt work a couple of days ago, so I can`t post it. But it was a thread discussing a provider giving out a work number of a potential client. Some of you know who I am referring to.

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-- Modified on 2/10/2002 12:33:33 AM

First, I'll say I would never get a gun. That one is my personal choice. I just think the odds of it being used against me are just about as high as the odds of my using it correctly... and even if I did shoot a guy... would I really want the complications that entails? =:O

I of course can only speak for myself... but I do disagree with you on the physical risks... if a guy larger and stronger than me got me pinned on the bed, even if I had a gun in my purse, there wouldn't be much I could do. And I cannot see having a gun out in open view during all my appointments =:O I am unfortunately not Lara Croft. Hehe, that'd be kinda kewl tho!

If a guy comes in and is rude or obnoxious... tries to do things (aggressively) without a condom... doesn't pay the full fee... overstays his welcome... etc etc. NO I would not try to ruin his job, or post his full information anywhere. I would post his first name, last initial, email addy and the city he lives in to let other ladies know about him. His work info would go the same route anyone else's does... deleted. Those things might mean a lot to *me* in the moment, but in the long run they are petty.  As long as I am safe, even if a guy didn't pay me at ALL, I would not take that kind of action.  I would do my best to warn other ladies while still maintaining my own integrity.

Frankly I don't think that most jobs in this day and age would CARE if some hysterical female called them. (Some WOULD, I know, but lots wouldn't.)  It would be patently easy to say that I was some stalker who followed him to work or something, and in this day and age???? I think people would more than likely buy it, unless they had some reason NOT to.  Even more frankly I don't *know* what I would do with the information in the event that someone DID hurt me.  (Call his job and tell them what? Call the cops and tell THEM what????)  I'm really using it as a deterrent... and hoping that the psychos will go elsewhere once they realize that I have an extensive screening process. This is my hope, and my way of minimizing my risks.  

Even *with* your job info, the client still has more power, because if I ever were to abuse the confidentiality of that information my reputation would be ruined so fast it'd make my own head spin. The people of this community do not take that kind of breach of trust lightly.

Anyways that's my take on things for me, myself, and I... I doubt we will agree even so because in some ways the interests of client and provider do, by their very nature, clash. Ideally we can at least understand each others perspectives.

Hugs*
Nicole